Local home invasions are increasing!

[PythonGuy]

Although I tend to downplay home carry as being overly neurotic, I was disturbed to hear on the local news that the rate of home invasions in Nassau County, NY, my neighboring county, is rising at an alarming rate.
Here is a link: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lihome1011,0,7748365.story?track=mostemailedlink. The invasions take the form of a group of 3 or 4 masked perps, armed, that cover the head of the victim families and procede to rob them. Now I'm not saying that being armed would be a good strategy, if I was alone that would be one thing, but I have a wife and two children at home and fear if I escalated the situation someone in my family would get shot or taken hostage. We have a dog and alarms and would get some advanced warning, but the homes are close and the walls are sheetrock, and I'm worried about bullets hitting innocent bystanders. A hell of a situation and again, I have to admit I always deride the idea of home protection, and now its close to my home, sigh. Anyone know of a good force field company?:o

[Musketeer]

I live in Suffolk county, next to Nassau, and have been following the home invasion spree. I must disagree that you feel using a weapon to stop a home invasion woud escalate the situation... The current situation is that the families are tied up and taken hostage while their homes are robbed. If you live or die, your wife and children are raped or left intact is entirely beyond your control when you decide to surrender yourself. I couldn't imagine my surrenderring the option of resisting in the hopes that the bad guys are having a good day and feeling generous... The longer these invasions go on the bolder these criminals are going to get. They are on to something now on Long Island and other criminals are soon going to follow. Every robbery has been a well publicized success. More will follow and it would be foolish to believe that none of them will turn violent against the homeowner. Most of them already believe Long Island homes to be unarmed and easy pickings.

When in the house I carry, all the time. Even if I am in sweatpants I can throw on a SmartCarry and have either my 1911 or S&W J frame handy and perfectly comfortable. When sleeping they are both loaded and in the master bedroom, along with my cell phone on its charger and a couple flashlights. On more than one occasion, since the SmartCarry is so comfortable, I have fallen asleep on the couch or in my little girls room with it on, as daddy often falls asleep while getting her down... Remember, a home invader will very likely take the phone off the hook downstairs to prevent outgoing calls.

Finally some form of warning is critical. Alarms are good, even just window sensors that make noise if openned. I have a 100 pound Rhodesian Ridgeback that is one of the best gaurd dogs I have ever owned. He is stubborn as a mule and harder to train because of it but he only barks when something is there and takes protecting the home and family seriously. On more than one night he has heard something in the woods behind our back fence that I have missed. I'll let him out and he hits that 6 ft. fence like a frieght train. It is not uncommon to hear running footsteps in the woods at that point. At only 1 year old today (Happy Birthday Colt!) I couldn't ask for much more. Nobody is getting in unnoticed.

Once again, I must reitterate my position that unless you are already staring down the barrel of a gun it is better to resist than surrender the lives of your family and you to a criminal who has already shown no respect for the law.

[pax]

Once again, I must reitterate my position that unless you are already staring down the barrel of a gun it is better to resist than surrender the lives of your family and you to a criminal who has already shown no respect for the law.
I decided a long time ago that I would never be tied up. That's one of my personal boundaries. I'd rather die fighting, even if it's hopeless.

pax

[Eghad]

I think a Remington Express 870 would generate the required force field.

[Trip20]

When your home is invaded - the invader has escalated the situation. You had no say-so in the matter.

As stated above – once you surrender, you now put you and your family's lives in the hands of a criminal – and you’re going to expect them to be nice?

Surrendering is the last option - as in, when your caught off guard because you believe carrying at home is neurotic. Your unarmed, now you gotta surrender.

Ya know, being armed at home, doesn't mean you must walk around looking like Rambo. It can be discreet, comfortable, and practical.

Stay safe - this stuff is real.

[swmike]

How many Home Invasion Robberies start like this?


Knock-Knock (or ding-dong if there is a button outside)

Door opened by occupant

Several people rush in before occupant can respond


I have watched more people than I can remember respond to a knock or doorbell by just opening the door to see who is there. Maybe it would be different if:

Knock-Knock
Occupant checks Monitor from Security camera at front entrance (or peephole if not willing to spring for vid system)

Asks party their business through intercom (or shouts through door)
Recognizes threat from video and notifies 911 while arming himself.
Police arrive or threat leaves.

All through encounter, front door remained closed and bolted.

Not perfect scenario but a lot better than throwing open the door and then saying "Aw $h!T" as you are knocked on your @$$


BTW if you are worried about secondary access like side, back doors, or windows, what good is that steel front door with a 1" deadbolt if you have 5 other easier means of access.

[Musketeer]

So far most oof the Long Island invasions have been at night through an unlocked window, according to reports.even windows I leave partially open at night have a lock that keeps someone from coming throug and is impossible to disable from the outside. As the temperature drops though more homes are going to shut their windows at night. I wonder if this will make the invaders bolder about breaking in while families are awake, lead to a hiatus in the invasions, or just reduce their frequency?

[Trip20]

Very true swmike.

A few weeks back, I was awaken by knocking at my door - it was 3:30am. My dog is barking like crazy.

With out getting into a long story... I couldn't sleep the rest of the night.

I think about how easy it would have been for someone to push right in when I answered. I also didn't like how long it took me to get my stuff together prior to answering the door. I learned from this brief, and thankfully uneventful encounter.

[gb_in_ga]

"Ya know, being armed at home, doesn't mean you must walk around looking like Rambo. It can be discreet, comfortable, and practical."

Correct. I've recently just started to just CCW in the house. I keep the Bersa on my person, IWB, while at home. It is reasonably discreet, it is comfortable, and since it is on my person I will have it should that sort of thing actually happen. Of course, that's before bed -- after that, it's the wheelgun in the bedside table and the Bersa goes under the bed in a case as backup.

[Trip20]

gb_in_ga - are you the same guy from the BersaTalk forum? Just curious.

[PythonGuy]

I own .45's and .357's and a Glock 9mm that is probably the best option for this type of situation. I also own a couple of AR-15's but that might be overkill. I can shoot pretty well and can dot an i at 15 feet or less, so is the Glock my best option? I've read on here and other forums that it doesn't matter what you use, moreso how you use it. I think I am proficient with my weapons and shoot once a week rotating through my collection, except the unfired python's, of course. I'm a careful person, but my wife, despite all my warnings, is the type to open first, or just leave the door open and wander to the neighbors. She'd fight me about carry to some extent, but I think I'm going to go "paranoid" on this one and use the Glock. Thoughts and opinions as I am far too passive in this area being born and raised in NYC.

[blackmind]

I'm a careful person, but my wife, despite all my warnings, is the type to open first, or just leave the door open and wander to the neighbors. She'd fight me about carry to some extent, but I think I'm going to go "paranoid" on this one and use the Glock. Thoughts and opinions as I am far too passive in this area being born and raised in NYC.


I used to live on L.I., so I know where you're coming from. It gives a great illusion of being a safe-from-crime kinda place, but it's not.

I wonder why it is that in a place like NYC, which as a city has always had an elevated interpersonal crime rate, people end up bred to be PASSIVE. Wouldn't you think, intuitively, that being in a high-crime area would condition the populace to be alert and perceptive to their surroundings, and resistant when criminals confront them? It seems that the wolves have truly created sheep somehow, if this attitude is prevalent.


I think it's probably time to make a serious impression on your wife. If she is going to be the type to read about and know about the violent home invasions that are taking place all around (and nobody can be sure that they are not next, since it seems random), and yet still insist on being careless and, yes, STUPID about security, then it behooves you to set her straight, for the sake of your kids, you, and her.

Or is she believing in the nonsensical illusion that somehow the police still are a means of salvation even if these guys are already at the door?

I mean it, you are going to have to lay down the law about what is tolerable as far as being lackadaisical at the front door (and elsewhere). Maybe you could read her accounts of the victims of the recent robberies and ask how she'd feel if your children were tied up by invaders. You're going to have to hit her in the emotion department, unfortunately, because a sheeple "say-no-to-guns" female can often be reached only in that way. Good luck.


-blackmind

[sm]

*Someone* recently PM'd me and their words are what prompt me to type what I am about to. No matter what fussing I get as a result.

Concerns of confrontations, or serious situations in one's home or business is not a new thing. Just some of us may of have been raised in an enviroment which these concerns where part of how raised - even if - in my case I am now 50 years old.

I was also just flat raised with the idea of a firearm was "handy" at the home/ business/ travels , if not on person back in the day and age simply because " That is what one did". City or country - no nevermind, we didn't have persmission papers or anything saying yeah or nay...Just how stuff was done- period.

My concerns have always been entering, leaving, or answering the door. I mean having a long gun is great, the reality is one doesn't get to always tote one in these situations. Hence the sidearm on person - preferebly concealed for element of surprise, and not advertising one' self.

Folks kidded about Guns in the Bathroom, well in Hotels/ Motels one never knows when "room service" may knock and let themselves in. Nor does one know how many Master Keys for your Apt has been given to maintence persons - past or present.

I had access to valuables. I had access to alarms, and safes which held said valuables. We had Professionals that roamed different areas with different "skills". Some by-passed alarms, some were 'back the tow-truck in, snag safe and drive off", some kidnapped folks...all sorts of Professionals.

One learns from mistakes - less expensive and painful if learned from someone else's-Mentor and Elder.

I did not order a Pizza, I used peep-hole. I called my neighbor, she didn't either, she like me wondered why a Pizza guy would be using a Rental Car. I dunno, but when LEO advises me a new MO has been happening, and some Professionals are reportedly in the area...I stay put and make a direct call to someone in LEO.

Been walked in on in my Apt, Motels and Hotels. I also happened to be in a Hotel Bathroom when a fella let himself in and the other folks were caught by surprise....bathroom just happened to be near door, this fella was well into the room, I came up from behind.

Alarm company called. I headed out the door in a hurry at 2AM. Weather was bad , I show up and guess what, no alarm going off...and that car I tried to lose, showed up anyway. You drive to LEO station and lay on the horn for help. I never ever again left to answer an alarm without calling Alarm company to make sure my alarm was ging off - and the LEO had been notified to meet me...

I also learned to have a codeword with Alarm company...seems the Professionals figured out that little detail when they would kidnap a guy's wife, family and make the guy at gun point open business and safes...

Good idea to have beefed up window and doors, motion lights and such. Home alarms are good...still it really sucks to arrive to abode and the guys are good enough to by-pass alarms and greet you at your front door. It really ruins one's evening. I had my fun filled evening...

I'll mention a competitor's wife beat him home, they took two cars to work that day. His wife had the shotgun bbl in her mouth when he opened his door. He got to go back to work with someone riding with him, and his wife being babysitted.

Another had the fun time of riding around in the trunk for hours, his family too had company, he made the mistake of opening his business for a "late customer". He had a wee hours in the morning all right. This was the night I was targeted for same...only like an idiot " you were hard as hell to predict, and when we did find you, you picked up the phone while looking directly across the street at our car". I heard this face to face thru cell bars, I had to hear this and face that demon when they were caught. I had to know how come it was not me that night. My call...I just called a customer to let them know I had something ready for them is all. Pure Luck. I saw the car all right, not uncommon for folks to park there...

This using of Uniforms of Utility companies and delivery folks ain't new either...

This "bump and grab" when driving is not new either. Car bumps you, you get out and rut-roh. Of course this run off road and shoot the driver thru window isn't either...

So while I prefer a 12 ga with slugs, while I do all the stuff best I can to not get into situations, take precautions best can, from beefing up the home, lights, locks, patio doors and such...kinda hard to handle a 12 ga while driving too..

I still have to enter, leave, answer the door. A true gentleman removes the dishes before he tinkles in the sink...but ya know, sometimes you do have to use the bathroom. And since I never can be sure another will take precautions in answering door or there is not a Master Key floating about, or perhaps the fella is smart enought to listen to shower running outside bathroom window...

I'll just wear a handgun(s) concealed all the time , in the bathroom have one, and in sleeping have it handy as well.

Nobody said these learning curves were gonna be fun...they got that right.

Steve

[Musketeer]

I wonder why it is that in a place like NYC, which as a city has always had an elevated interpersonal crime rate, people end up bred to be PASSIVE. Wouldn't you think, intuitively, that being in a high-crime area would condition the populace to be alert and perceptive to their surroundings, and resistant when criminals confront them? It seems that the wolves have truly created sheep somehow, if this attitude is prevalent.


Those who live there I believe consider themselves very "street savy" but it is the "savy" of the prey antelope as opposed to the lion. People will avoid eye contact, dark alleys and perhaps blind corners but like a herd of antelope crossing a river eventually one is going to get taken by the crocodiles. The attitude that exists is of not being the one caught as opposed to being able to fight back if it happens.

In addition cities like NY are centers of social care. The government will make certain the ambulance shows up, the street lights work, the power stays on and the busses run. Living in an artificially modelled enviorment such as a city where so many day to day needs are handled by "the authorities" leads individuals to put all concerns beyond the daily paycheck (and even that for the multi-generational welfare class) into the realm of "government's problems."

You have a tough problem with the wife, especially on Long Island. Sad as it is to say all she has to do is call the Suffolk County PD and tell them she thinks you are paranoid and you may see your handguns taken away. Stupid but true.

[PythonGuy]

Great posts from all, and I particularly agree with Musketeer's last statement. I grew up in NYC and had to use my wits to survive in a middle class Queens neighborhood. While I couldn't fight all the foes and predator's that abound there, I was able to outsmart and avoid them for survival. There is no recourse to carry, you just had to be faster to evade and out think the enemy. I had minority groups try and steal my bikes, one even came up to my driveway and stole my new Schwinn 10 speed I just got for my birthday, because at 10 I was too naive and trusting. You kind of get arrogant that you can survive this way and that somehow makes you better. My wife grew up there too, and she was in situations that put her at risk as a child having lived in an apartment complex that was taken over by minority groups who then preyed on the remaining white population. She tolerates my gun avocation, but would not like loaded guns around the house due to our children, the youngest of which is 8. As for the Suffolk County Police, my wife would never call and tell them I'm paranoid or unsafe as I am the most careful person about my guns you could imagine. The Police would respond as you suggested though, they even called her when I was obtaining my permit may years ago and asked all sorts of questions about domestic violence, my temper, etc. I am getting some literature about the break-ins as another writer suggested, my coworker's husband is a Nassau County officer assigned to the home invasion case. There are some flyers and reports that have been prepared to "enlighten" homeowners to the situations. He himself is torn between protecting his family and being at work long hours working on the case leaving wife and children at home. I have no qualms about legally protecting my family and home.

[chadwimc]

All the home invasion type attacks in our area(sw Ohio) involve minorities and drugs. Since I have niether in or near my home, I'd have to assume the worst was in store for me. Unless the goblin's gun was on my nose or against my jellybelly, I'm fighting for my life...

[Bravo25]

I decided a long time ago that I would never be tied up. That's one of my personal boundaries. I'd rather die fighting, even if it's hopeless.

When I worked as a Loss Prevention Supervisor, I had to tell my people that in case of a robbery, just comply, and give them what they want. This was company policy. My policy that I couldn't give to employees was just this....

BG comes in, and wants the money, he can have it. All of it. Cash register, and everything just as hard, and as fast as I can throw it at him, with me coming over the counter right behind it. And as for going to the back of the store, and getting on my knees, sorry that isn't how it is going to go down. I would rather die fighting, than to die laying down.

[sm]

BG comes in, and wants the money, he can have it. All of it. Cash register, and everything just as hard, and as fast as I can throw it at him, with me coming over the counter right behind it. And as for going to the back of the store, and getting on my knees, sorry that isn't how it is going to go down. I would rather die fighting, than to die laying down.

I have given a very similar speech.

Nobody, Nobody gets taken out of the store, or to the back. Nobody. I had guns stashed here and there along with whomever was carrying concealed on premise. Employees got range time - I made sure of that.

I had one more rule, for me. IF..IF the BG has me with a gun to me, I am going to drop like a rock ( try to anyway) and I expect someone to take the shot(s) at BG(s). Worst case, I dont' make it, still Nobody was going to get taken to the back, or off premises.

Twice we had some smart-aleck person come in. First was a teenager of a business owner close to us, the second an obnoxious customer.

"This is a stickup!"

Twice we had folks with urine soaked pants and shaking like leaves. They never did that again. Word is my 'come to Jesus meeting" about NOT telling anyone about us, firearms or anything as a result...was heard in neighboring counties and the language was meant to stick.

I may like to kid and have fun about some matters- I have some I take very very serious!!

[Bullrock]

Knock-Knock
Occupant checks Monitor from Security camera at front entrance (or peephole if not willing to spring for vid system)
I agree with Mike. The front and back of my home is well lighted throughout the night with dusk to dawn lamps. We do not answer the door during the day or after dark unless we verify who it is. We don't have a vid.

On the other hand I have a medical problem with my eyes and use medication in them every night before bed. My wife sleeps on the side of the bed that is closest to the bedroom door. She tells the story of a BG breaking in during the night. Awakened by my terrier, I reach for my HD gun on the nightstand.

Through blurred vision I see a form in the doorway and take her out thinking she's the BG!!! Through continued blurred vision, I ask, 'Is there anyone else???:eek:

It's really not that bad. My vision is only blurred for about 30 minutes. She seems to enjoy telling the story at family gatherings...

[USP45usp]

doesn't mean you must walk around looking like Rambo.

Dang, :(. No wonder people look at me funny when they come over. I guess the face paint is abit of overkill :o ( :D ).

Good posts. Sorry about your wife being that way, but if you can, you need to really sit her down and have a talk with her. Especially for the kids sake (hey, "it's for the children" does work in the correct context and reason).

If you don't have a good outside light by your front/back door(s), they should be your first order of business and if your wife insist on opening up the door, get one of the door latches, not the chain type but the all metal type and put one between the top/middle and the other one between the bottom and middle. They will hold better. And don't use the small screws that come with them, get the wood screws that will go in about 2in at a minimum. I use the 2.5in types. You may need to drill the holes abit wider so they work.

Good luck to you.

Wayne

[JohnKSa]

I will not be taken captive in my home.

I had an ND in my kitchen awhile back. No one in the neighborhood called the cops. That's when it really hit home for me that whatever happens in my house is pretty much off the radar for the rest of the neighborhood. And THAT means that once I'm a prisoner in my own house, there's not much chance that anyone will figure it out until the criminals have accomplished their purpose. Even if they shoot someone, and no matter how much screaming goes on, it's highly unlikely that anyone but the people in the house will notice.

I guess I could HOPE that they'll just take stuff and leave, but I don't believe that depending on the humanity and mercy of criminals is very wise.

Talk of "escalating the situation" only makes sense if one assumes that you already know the outcome. That is a false assumption. You have no way of knowing the outcome until it happens, and by then it will be too late. Maybe these guys are the same guys that have been robbing, or maybe they're not robbers at all, they're BTK copycats. Or maybe they are the same guys and after getting away with it for so long they have decided to up the stakes a bit and find out what a rape or murder is like.

[wayneinFL]

Does anyone know if these home invasions are happening in neighborhoods where houses are close together? Or are they happening in more remote areas? I think this would be something that would be hard to do quietly. I would think this would discourage criminals from choosing more densely populated areas.

Of course in reality, I'm pretty sure someone could fire a gun in my house at midnight and none of my neighbors would notice. And they're all of 20 feet away measured house to house.

I carry in my home. If I'm carrying it all day at work to protect my own sorry butt, why unload it and lock it up in the safe when I get home and have the responsibility of protecting my precious wife and boys? A snubby in a pants pocket is discrete enough. I don't come across as a rambo or anything- I'm just another dad.

I used to have problems with my wife opening the door whenever someone knocked on it. She grew up in this neighborhood, and just feels safe here. She forgets her grandmother was attacked in the house next to us by someone who pushed his way in the door. Bad things can happen anywhere.

She's getting better about checking the door before she answers it nowadays. I let the Mormons in on her one day and they won't leave her alone. :p

[FLA2760]

Hi
The thought of a home invasion brings great fear and apprenhension. The criminals have this working to their advantage. May I recomend the following things.
DO NOT OPEN YOUR DOOR TO ANYONE YOU DO NOT KNOW DAY OR NIGHT.
KEEP FRONT AND ALL OTHER DOORS LOCKED AT ALL TIMES.THIS GOES FOR SLIDERS AND FIRST FLOOR WINDOWS AS WELL
MAKE SURE IF YOU HAVE A GARAGE PARTICUARLY AN ATTACHED GARAGE KEEP THE GARAGE DOOR DOWN AT ALL TIMES. I live in Florida and the open garage door is a favorite point of entry for home invaders. These mutts cruise neighborhoods looking for open garage doors and other vulnerabilities.
INSTALL GOOD QUALITY LOCKS AND MOTION SENSITIVE OUTDOOR LIGHTING; HALOGEN IF YOU CAN.
A MONITORED ALARM SYSTEM WITH THE PANIC BUTTON FEATURE IS KEY.A BIG DOG IF THAT IS FEASABLE. A FULLY CHARGED CELL PHONE(PHONE LINES ARE CUT SOMETIMES)
GOD FORBID THAT ALL THIS IS CIRCUMVENTED AND THEY GET IN. GET YOUR FAMILY INTO A SAFE ROOM WITH A STURDY DOOR. SAID SAFE ROOM WOULD BE EQUIPED WITH THE SECOND12GA PUMP SHOTGUN THAT IS TRAINED AT THE DOOR BY YOUR WIFE OR WHOEVER CAN FIRE IT AND CYCLE THE ACTION.MOSSBERG 500 IS WHAT I HAVE. YOU ARE BETWEEN YOUR FAMILY AND THE HOME INVADERS WITH THE 1ST 12 GAUGE FIRING AT THEM. GET A LARGE CALIBER HANDGUN LIKE A .357 REVOLVER WITH A 4'' BARREL OR A .40 OR.45 SEMI AUTO SUCH AS A GLOCK AND CARRY IT AROUND THE HOUSE IN A FANNY PACK. Good luck. You and your family be safe.
Steve:D

[FLA2760]

Hi
The thought of a home invasion brings great fear and apprenhension. The criminals have this working to their advantage. May I recomend the following things.
DO NOT OPEN YOUR DOOR TO ANYONE YOU DO NOT KNOW DAY OR NIGHT.
KEEP FRONT AND ALL OTHER DOORS LOCKED AT ALL TIMES.
MAKE SURE IF YOU HAVE A GARAGE PARTICUARLY AN ATTACHED GARAGE KEEP THE GARAGE DOOR DOWN AT ALL TIMES; AND THE DOOR BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND HOUSE LOCKED AS WELL. I live in Florida and the open garage door is a favorite point of entry for home invaders. These mutts cruise neighborhoods looking for open garage doors and other vulnerabilities.
INSTALL GOOD QUALITY LOCKS AND MOTION SENSITIVE OUTDOOR LIGHTING; HALOGEN IF YOU CAN.
A MONITORED ALARM SYSTEM WITH THE PANIC BUTTON FEATURE IS KEY.A BIG DOG IF THAT IS FEASABLE. A FULLY CHARGED CELL PHONE(PHONE LINES ARE CUT SOMETIMES)
GOD FORBID THAT ALL THIS IS CIRCUMVENTED AND THEY GET IN. GET YOUR FAMILY INTO A SAFE ROOM WITH A STURDY DOOR. SAID SAFE ROOM WOULD BE EQUIPED WITH THE SECOND12GA PUMP SHOTGUN THAT IS TRAINED AT THE DOOR BY YOUR WIFE OR WHOEVER CAN FIRE IT AND CYCLE THE ACTION.MOSSBERG 500 IS WHAT I HAVE. YOU ARE BETWEEN YOUR FAMILY AND THE HOME INVADERS WITH THE 1ST 12 GAUGE FIRING AT THEM. GET A LARGE CALIBER HANDGUN LIKE A .357 REVOLVER WITH A 4'' BARREL OR A .40 OR.45 SEMI AUTO SUCH AS A GLOCK AND CARRY IT AROUND THE HOUSE IN A FANNY PACK. Good luck. You and your family be safe.
Steve:D

[DocFox]

Keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, that those that commit home invasion EXPECT someone to be home. They are many times more likely to be armed, and are expecting violence. The situation had escalated before you knew they were there. Although I do not have the statistics in front of me at the moment ( I believe you can find them on the DOJ website) as I recall, there is a significant likelyhood that at least one occupent will be assualted or killed. They will know you have a dog, expect it to be killed and understand they will be "pumped up" from doing so.

This being said, yes , take care of your family, be prepared to defend them with a moments notice. But avoidance is the key to safety. Many good suggestions were given, and I will add (or restate) more :

1. Motion activated lighting near every entrance, not just constant lighting. A constant light will allow someone to be seen, an activated light DRAWS attention. Also, if possible, keep the light out of reach when installing them. It will be less likely they can disable the lights.

2. Watch the goings on in your neighborhood, and encourage your neighbors to do the same. Know what is out of place, and ask your neighbors if you see strange cars around. Communication is key. An active neighborhood watch can be invaluable.

3.Walk around your house. All doors and any windows with the windowsill at or below nipple level is a security risk. Keep all hedges trimmed to AT LEAST 1' to 2' BELOW the sightline from the street. Make any intruders expose themselves to gain access.

4. Double and triple pane windows make a "BOOMING" sound when shattered. It may scare the criminals off, but it WILL alert you and your neighbors that something is wrong.

5. If you have a security system, have an external strobe light added. It draws a great deal of attention and helps responding Polie to quickly locate your home.

6. Remember, most people do not have the training or on hand backup available to safely "investigate the noise at night". The concept of a "safe room" is sound. If something happens, gather your family in this room, and stay put while you wait for the Professionals, don't let them in this room, defend it. Keep a cordless phone or cellphone nearby, even at night.

7. Talk to the local officials. Police and Fire Department personell will be able to help you in keeping your home from being a viable target. Ask for their advice, and follow it.

These are just a few points for avoiding being a victim. Remember these words of profound wisdom:
" The best way out of trouble is to not be there in the first place" - J. Teeter

[CQBArms]

Consider some of the hoops you go through for your pistol permit in NY state and that's the reason.

[Musketeer]

In response to an earlier question, yes these are taking place in moderately to densly packed areas. It is not hard to do quietly at all if the home owners wakes up to find themselves surrounded. While buying a shotgun/rifle is not hard in NY state a handgun is a major hassle.

While in the more rural areas of NY gun ownership is fairly common on Long Island ownership is the exception, not the rule. In 95% + of those homes that are "armed" it is almost always an unloaded .22, deer rifle or shotgun kept in a closet I would wager. My best friend had major concerns with his wife's abusive ex-husband who had made multiple threats and was out of jail again. While he got a pistol permit and two guns (380 sig and 9mm Taurus) but he never practiced. After the one time I got him to a range, two years ago, he still hasn't cleaned the weapons! He seems to figure stainless will be alright... Now that the ex is locked up for 25+ years both guns are locked up unloaded and out of reach if needed in a hurry at night. The sad truth is the majority of people, here especially, just do not take the threat seriously...

[bedula32]

A lot can be said for fortifying your home to make forced entry more difficult, take longer, and cause more noise. All this works to the homeowner's benefit. I am not advocating iron bars or anything as I know living in a self-made prison is not acceptable for many, but little things like a solid front door securely attached at the hinges (not the crappy 1" screws it was originally mounted with) and a good deadbolt that latched into a reinforced door jamb to make it significantly more difficult to kick in. And how about a decent storm door on top of that with a deadbolt. Does not have to be a 'security door' per se as I am guessing that most violent crooks will want to come in the door anyway and anything that takes more time and makes more noise is good. The windows are more for burglars than robbers I would think though that certainly is not without exception.

A flood light or two with auto-on sensor are cheap these days and easy to install at entrances to the house and might also buy you some time. Security camera at the entrance and/or a buzzer that lets you know someone is there before they knock or try to kick your door in. I never answer the door unarmed unless I was expecting someone. I do not carry in the house per se, but when there is a knock on the door I go in the opposite direction at first and retrieve my carry piece before even looking through the peephole - takes maybe 15 seconds longer to answer the door and I figure if it is anything even remotely important they can and will wait. I also have an unloaded AK stashed away 'somewhere' that I can get to quickly (but no one else can I might add) and a few loaded 30-round mags are also in a few spots throughout the home on top of kitchen cabinets and a tall grandfather clock. That will be for when if a whole gaggle of crooks decides to do a home invasion on me. It is precisely because of home invasions that I dropped the 12-gauge pump as my home defense weapon. If there are 5-10 crooks coming into my home I do not think a low capacity pump is the best answer.

I went to high school a woman who was cold-bloodedly executed, and two other people as well, during a robbery after fully cooperating. They were killed with, of all things, a 22LR pistol because they laid face down on the ground as they were told to do. One punk with one small gun then executes three people with shots to the back of the head at point-blank range. That absolutely cemented it with me - no cooperation, no surrender. I probably would have cooperated and done what I was told as well had that been me and I would have been executed as well. It is a terrible tragedy but at least one can learn from such things. I'd happily give up the valuables if I knew they'd take just that but I will not gamble my life on someone else's mercy or lack thereof. I strongly advocate deterrence combined with violent offense if the deterrence fails. I would fight unarmed anyone with a gun before I'd let them take that degree of control. At least if you can get up close you can cut down angles and even if you get shot you increase the odds it won't be a well placed shot (unless the crook gets lucky of course).

[Gary Conner]

DocFox:
Respectfully, I'd like to say that since these folks are in New York, on Long Island, consulting the authorities up there would probably result in them being told to hand over any defensive weapons immediately in order to "get more guns off the streets."

I know that sound stupid, since the gun isn't "on the street" but I think New York City doesn't even allow you to have a firearm, does it? (Unless you are Chuck Schumer, or some other politician up there that needs protection from criminals)
GMC

[Musketeer]

True, the authorities would oppose you getting a gun her but this is NOT New York City. Any person with a clean record can buy a shotgun or rifle, even with our ridiculous Assault Weapons Ban. You could have a 10 round mag, or pre ban mags. Only NYC has what amounts to a ban with outrageous steps needed to obtain a firearm. I wouldn't live there and am amazed by the sheeple I know who do...

[FLA2760]

Hi Python
I was just thinking that a neighborhood watch may be beneficial. The residents should know "who belongs" and who is suspicious. Additionally; how about a bunch of neighbors chipping in for an armed security patrol in the nieghboorhood. This is not meant to replace the critical role your personal firearms would play in a home invasion but it is one added layer of deterence. I know that you guys have pretty high taxes as it is, (my brother is in Rockville Centre) but the extra money for the security patrol may be worth it. Just another option to consider. Stay safe.
Steve:D

[gb_in_ga]

"gb_in_ga - are you the same guy from the BersaTalk forum? Just curious."

Yep.

[Eghad]

$13.00 for a motion sensor floodlight

Install a peep hole in the door...... If you cant see em dont open the door.

If they refuse to answer dont open the door and call the police.

If they are trying to ram down your door it aint the girl scouts selling cookies.

a load of buckshot through the door should suffice to set them on thier way.

[PythonGuy]

Thanks for the suggestions Steve, it is a good idea but this is a middle class neighbor, for Long Island anyway, and I don't think the neighbors would pay for armed security, our taxes average about $8000 as it is. We do have a tight neighborhood and all watch out for each other. I personally have called or visited neighbors houses where doors were open, or suspicious people were looking around (they turned out to be contractors and town inspectors, etc). I am going to keep my glock 9mm in a security case by my bed, I am going to call the Suffolk County PD pistol licensing dept to make sure I can legally keep a loaded gun in my premises. Don't laugh, they used to call it a premises permit but now it is called a target license. One day I'll be out of New York all together and into a "free" state, hopefully I'll live that long. Stay safe too. By the way, what's the best defensive 9mm load, never thought I'd be asking that question....

[blackmind]

I had a Suffolk County pistol license, and I never questioned the idea that it entitled me to keep my handguns loaded at home. Why would you want to bother asking an agency that is CLEARLY VERY ANTI-GUN according to all accounts here? You know they will probably try to steer you into the "call the police to save you" camp with every breath they utter. And why alert them to something you wish to do, on the off chance that they will have a problem with it?

-blackmind

[Musketeer]

Pythonguy, the SCPD will tell you to keep it locked up with the ammo stored in a separate location. This is stated in the little handbook they give you that you can also get from their website I believe. That does not make having a loaded gun in your home illegal though. These are the same people who tell you in your handbook that you are almost never able to take a handgun to another state on vacation, an outright lie.

They WILL NOT tell you that there is no law against having your gun loaded at home. Calling them will only put you on the short list of people they may pay more attention to, especially by suggesting that you think it prudent to keep a loaded handgun about. With the discretionary nature of the permit process I prefer to be as unknown to them as possible while remaining legal.

I live on Long Island as well and know exactly the thought process you are going through. People here are conditioned to believe that unless you are told you can do something it is forbidden/illegal. That is not the case though and in much of the rest of the country the expectation is the opposite, unless told otherwise it is legal. That is the principal our legal system works under.

The SCPD will not help you. Their purpose is to make it as difficult as possible for us to have handguns and do everything possible to keep the ones that are out there under lock and key.

I suggest checking out www.packing.org for information on egal use and carry of a firearm as well as www.nysafe.org for the 2A fight in NY & LI.

[Musketeer]

This thread at www.packing.org deals with some of the issues we are discussing.

http://www.packing.org/community/general/thread/?thread=3579


You do not have a target permit. There is nothing in NY State law that specifies a permit for target.

You have a PROPER CAUSE permit, as coverred under NY State Law, that allows you to carry a pistol loaded and concealed upon your person. There are administrative restrictions, with no criminal penalties whatsoever, that are placed on the permit by the issuing authorities. While most intelligent people see this as an abuse of power the courts have so far upheld the ability of issuing authorities to enact rules beyond those established by law as long as there are only administrative consequences (loss of permit). If SCPD wants to make it an administrative restriction that you keep the weapon locked up and unloaded they may and they may also pull your permit if they believe you are not doing so.

Because of the wide say the police have with administrative powers over your permit they may pull it for any reason at all. If they THINK you should not have it for whatever reason you are in trouble. Technically you have recourse under the law but on your own you are in trouble. Better to stay off the radar. After that join SAFE at www.nysafe.org and if trouble begins brewing with the authorities call in the cavalry. SAFE and the NRA made an excellent point that they can do nothing after the problem is done. They need to be involced from as early as possible, like with the confiscations in New Orleans. The head of SAFE provides you with his phone number so that if you find yourself in trouble you can call him.

[DocFox]

Gary Conner... You are right of course, my list was not specifically intended just for him, but also for everyone here. Each person should know which items they can not implement (obviously speaking to the authorities in San Francisco would land you in prison if you mentioned your handgun). As a whole, the things I posted are sound and effective steps to reduce risks and are things that work.

[gradshooter]

If you're worried about shots penetrating your walls and entering the neighbor's house, I'd suggest birdshot from a 12 gague. There is no guarantee that it won't but it might be better than a 44 Magnum. Plus, there is no sound in the world like that of a 12 Ga chambering the first round.

[FLA2760]

Hi Python
I do not have any 9mm 's so I do not know which is the best round. I am sure others will help you here. I choose my ammo based on what my semi-auto will reliably cycle. I feel for you in wanting to get out of NY. I grew up in NYC (Staten Island) and I was held up at gun point THREE TIMES. First time was outside my then girlfriend's deli waiting to pick her up we were going out to SPEAKS on the island. Anyway I was an unalert kid daydreaming and was quickly jarred from my complacency when a hooded BG shoved a BIG revolver to my head and relieved me of my cash and watch. Second time was at my part- time gas station job while in college. This time they made me and the guy I was working with drive them to a housing project near the gas station and took the nights reciepts; my and my friends cash and then told us count to 100 and they fled. Two armed BGs .I was so concerned they would take my car a 68 Mustang fastback! I guess since it was not an Electra 225 they did not want it! Third time I was going to my car after night classes at the City University. I parked off campus and about halfway to my car a guy asks for the time, (I know now that this is usually a set up) when I looked at my watch he shoved a small semi auto into my ribs and took my wallet and leather jacket. It was about 12 degrees, but hey thank God I am here to tell you of my close calls. That was from 1977 to 1980. During some of this period Mayor Koch had those TV spots that if you are caught with an illegal gun in NYC it is a 1 year mandatory "vacation" I guess the mutts that took me off were not intimadated by it! Just people like you and me you know the law abiding ones. It was at this time I decided to become a defender and promoter of our 2nd Amendment rights. I am currently a Life Member of NRA and am actively involved in writing my elected officials in order to further our freedoms. I have been in FL since 1997 and my brother from Rockville Centre would LOVE to relocate here but he has a great carreer and it would not be good for him and his family at this time. I may be moving to Nevada or Arizona soon. These hurricanes SUCK! We are watching hurricane Wilma as I write this. We got hit with two of them last season but I had just put 3M "security film" on the windows and we stayed in the house thank God no damage and our power was out for only 5 hours. In my subdivision the electric is underground. Well good luck and stay safe. PS did you know that you can get a NON- RESIDENT CCW issued by the state of Florida? It won't help you in the "republic of NY" but it will enable you to carry conceled in many states that have reciprocity with Florida.I beleive it can all be done through the mail. Check out PACKING.ORG for further information. Click on the Florida link and you will see all the information you need to get the permit. You may have to take an approved gun safety course. I am sure there are NRA certified instructers up there. Local gun shop may be able to assist. Here is the link; http://www.packing.org/
Check this link out for Fl reciprocity. http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/eligible.html
This last link shows eligibility for Fl CCW You just need to be resident of the U.S. Let me know if you go for the permit. Steve:D

[PythonGuy]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the great ideas/suggestions. A few points, I have called SCPD before, they never ask for my name (phone number is blocked) and they have been really helpful, even telling me I can send my guns to any service company for work without using an FFL. I read the pistol handbook, I keep a downloaded copy that I make sure is the latest version. Under types of license, I have the target and hunting type F "Proper cause" as Musketeer pointed out. It means I can carry concealed to and from the range and/or hunting area, except through NYC (locked box). The rules do give them broad revocation power, I don't know how they use it in practice as I've not read about people losing their license. The booklet does mentions the locking of the gun, which is how I would keep it, hidden in a quick box for fast access instead of in the large gun safe. I'm sure it can't be loaded though, and getting around that could be tricky, although I am a fast loader with that glock fast loader.;) I guess I won't bother calling to ask about the gun at home, they never answer their phone anymore anyway. The police in the pistol license section are really different then if you called the main desk, which I never would, the pistol guys are much cooler. I remember when I first got my license in 1980 (Nassau county) there was a County rule that you had to belong to a gun club in order to have a permit and keep your guns in a locked box to and from the range. They have actually relaxed the rules on these issues and are more like upstate NY then NYC. Of course, they are not exactly Las Vegas when it comes to owning, carry, and shooting. A few more years and my son will be in College, maybe it'll be time to move off Long Island then, its too expensive and restrictive here anyway. Its a shame because it is a beautiful place to live and work.

[JohnKSa]

which is how I would keep it, hidden in a quick box for fast access instead of in the large gun safe. I'm sure it can't be loaded though, and getting around that could be tricky, although I am a fast loader with that glock fast loader.Not fast enough access if you're worried about a home invasion. You won't have time to get to the room with the safe in it, let alone have time to open the safe and load the gun.

If you think you'll need the gun you need to have it on you. It will be secure that way and will also be handy. Having it unloaded will make it pretty useless to you.

Go ahead and get the quick box and a mag holder. Then if you have a home invasion and someone asks what happened, you can tell them that you carry the mag around with you loaded and that when you heard the noises you managed to run to the room with the quick box, open it, take out the gun, insert the loaded magazine, rack the slide and get back to the front door in time to stop the home invasion. :D

[losangeles]

Great thread! Very informative and useful. Sorry to hear about the home invasion spree there.

On a side note, a long-term solution, if it's an option, is to consider the type of community one lives in. I realize this is not an option for many people because of economics, employment, etc. I used to live in the LA suburb of Carson, which is adjacent to the infamous city of Compton (birthplace of gangsta rap, always vying to be the #1 homicide city in the country for its size category) and just south of South-Central LA (Watts Riots, etc).

Carson itself is working middle-class but the crime rate is high because of its proximity. While residing there, my house did have a home invasion during the day when my wife's mom and her friend were inside. Traumatized the poor ladies. Also, there were ghetto gangbangers hanging around the block, drinking in the street corner, playing loud music, etc. and needless to say, there was plenty of opportunity for confrontation.

But that was one reason I was motivated in business, which did improve substantially, so I ended up having the option to move to another suburb here called Palos Verdes, where you just don't get home invasions (very rare) or anything of that magnitude. Heck, one of the communities here is called Rolling Hills, a gated city, and they have practically zero homicides year after year. Unfortunately, that's not yet an option for me as the real estate is super expensive.

Bottom line is that, for the long-term, a different community can make a difference.

[KyJim]

First rule at home is keep the doors locked.

I recently saw a video on the web (can't find it now) where a guy kept a surveillance camera inside his home. The guy owned a bar and came home with two female friends at closing. As they were sitting and chatting, two guys simply opened the unlocked screen door to the patio. One guy was carrying a pistol (looked like a Mac 10 or similar) but the second guy did not have one visible.

One of the females goes into the bedroom where the guy without a visible handgun follows and then returns with the female and a handgun showing. The bar owner had a concealed carry permit and this was maybe his gun. At any rate, they forced all 3 to lie on the floor and executed them all. Bar owner made one feeble attempt to resist during the home invasion.

As for my family, we never answer the door to someone we don't know. Most times we won't even go to the door unless family or friends have called ahead to let us know they are coming.

[Musketeer]

PythonGuy, don't think the Nassau PD changed any rules to make things better for you. The to and from the range in a locked box was blatantly against the written law, it has to be allowed to be carried concealed at some time in order for it to be a Proper Cause permit, otherwise they are not complying with the law in issuing it.

I carry at home, it is my house and there is no rule saying I cannot. At night I will place the loaded gun in the top dresser draw next to the bed. My little girl cannot get to it that way while we are in the room. If I am not there it is in a locked box. When I am there the gun is loaded, either on my person or in its nighttime location. If you think you are going to be able to get a key or undo a compbination and open a lock box in the dark, after just awakenning, then locate the magazine and load the gun you are in for a surprise. My mags are at least stainless steel and the gun is hard chromed. You Glock is black as the night and the magazines are the same. Of course you could tunr the lights on, alerting any intruders and destroying your night vision...

Like I said, I understand your thinking 100%. It has been ingrained into you by the bad advice of the issuing authorities in Nassau and Suffolk Counties. Understand though that none of them want you to even have a firearm, let alone have it readily available. Even many cops in this area who are supposedly pro citizen carry are not really when put to the test. Many of the gunowners of this state have been so brainwashed that the shotgun guys will write off the rifle guys and both will write off the handgun guys. Since everything is done to create firearms ignorance here and virtually no real Second Amendment supporters are going to move here the situation will probably only get worse. Many, like myself, are actively courting jobs in other more friendly states. I am talking to one real promising company in Northern VA at present...

Do not believe for one second that the SCPD does not know instantly who you are when you call. You ID being blocked does not apply to calls made to certain locations. Police stations and 911 are some of the exceptions. If you call them on anything but a public pay phone they know who you are.

The officers in the SCPD pistol buruea are a mixed lot. They all have the "superior LEO" attitude but some are better than others. At least one, my coworkers neighbor, is their on rubber gun patrol because he is a well know beligerent drunk that cannot be trusted on the street. The pistol Bureau strikes me as an excellent place to stick those who shouldn't be on the street anymore as the only people they routinely deal with are the ones with background records so clean you could eat off them, you and I.

[PythonGuy]

Musketeer, I agree with you on every single point you make, neither county wants us to defend ourselves with firearms period. Just reading their pistol manual you can tell they discourage the use of firearms and go so far as to say even if its justified you will have to spend your own funds to defend yourself. The rules are murky about home gun use, are we guilty if we keep a loaded gun at home? Do we lock our kitchen knives away too? High traffic, high costs, and too many rules due to the need to control the masses. I've gotta get out of this place.

[cracked butt]

LOCKS-

I don't know how prevelant this is, but if you buy a door, especially a patio door, that has a lock already installed, chances are that its really easy to get a key for.

I used to work for a company that built patio doors. There were a total of 6 different keysets that the company used. That should give you a bit of something to think about.

Another anecdotal evidence that has me thinking that locks aren't the greatest protection as well- When my dad had his house remodeled, he had new doors put it. He ended up losing the keys in the mess shortly after the doors were installed. He went to the local lumberyard and asked about how he could get a key matched up, they gave him a dozen different keys to try- the door came from their lumberyard, so one of the keys was going to fit.

[wayneinFL]

Python Guy:
I've gotta get out of this place.
Well, come on down! We're the New York of the South.

[losangeles]

I've gotta get out of this place

That's what I'm saying about options that might make sense.

[PythonGuy]

I guess there really aren't too many guns here in Long Island. My county, Suffolk, has about 1.5 million residents and here are the number of guns registered:
Total Active Pistol Licenses 28,682
Total Registered Handguns - (Including Police Officers) 92,078
That works out to about 6% of the population, if it was one gun for each. Of course I'm sure most own more then one, so a tiny portion of the population own legal handguns in Suffolk County. No wonder there were 33 home invasions this year, I'm surprised there aren't more! 95% or more of the population is unarmed, and since cops are included in the above munbers, the civilian total is much less. Anybody know the national average?

[GeorgeF]

I am way past thinking that the bad guys wont harm you if they get what they want. And just because you live somewhere nice, dont think it cant happen to you.

Anyone with spare time should visit http://www.wichita-massacre.com/

Its a home invasion that happened in Wichita, Kansas that will chill your blood. Granted, their remote locality helped things, but how many people just act like sheep, stay quiet and hope things go away?

I'm not sure if I will carry around the house, but a gun is always nearby and I never open the door without checking to see who is there first.

[John28226]

The suggestions for motion activated lights are excellent. They are easy to install and not very expensive. I doubt that a true home invasion (as opposed to a housebreaking) would be easily discouraged, but a loud dog barking might keep some criminals out. For those that don't want the things that do with having a real dog, you can buy a device what comes equipped with a wireless motion detector/sender and a "box" that houses the "dog". The bark is pretty loud and, properly positioned will make the person approaching the door think you have a real dog. I believe the unit is sold as "Robo Dog" and you can find it at Smarthome as well as some other sites. Last I saw the price for the complete unit was under $100 and you don't have to buy dog food!

If you have a sliding patio door, crooks can easily enter by lifting the locked door out of its track. To prevent this, CAREFULLY drill two holes in the track above the door frame. Install some # 8 sheet metal screws approx. 1.25 inches long - they need to be long enough to engage the far side of the track to form a "block" at both ends of the closed door. Position them so the door slides as normal. An old broomstick cut to length and laid in the track will prevent the door being slid open should someone force the rather weak lock that most patio doors come with. All windows at ground level should be "pinned" in the closed position. This will force a crook to break the window making noise which hopefully you will hear. Simple pins for this job can be made using 20 penny nails; drill a hole at an angle (slightly larger than the nail); the hole should be in the window frame (if the window is wooden) and go into the track. Nail should be a snug fit but can be removed by hand. For aluminum frame windows, the hole should be at 90 degrees to the window in the track.
Use a small block of wood (painted to match the window) with a slightly larger hole through it - nail passes through the wooden block wedging it to the top of the closed window.

Hope this helps. Obviously if you have a security professional among your acquaintences or living in your neighborhood, most of them will do a home security survey for free. Most of the time the police are not of much help with this, but some departments do have a crime prevention unit and they are normally pretty sharp.

John

[mete]

It has just been announced that 2 of the gang in Nassau Co home invasions have been arrested.They are looking for 4 more .All are career criminals drugs, guns etc etc.

[PythonGuy]

They caught two of the gang that did the original home invasions, the guys are from Crooklyn, I mean Brooklyn, need I say more? There are four others in the gang that robbed houses in Brooklyn, Queens, and Nassau, all at gunpoint. The Nassau taskforce also got a member of the "bloods" street gang that beat and robbed a home on Halloween, while dressed in a mask in a copycat home invasion. No time to feel safe though, how many uncared for children are there in Brooklyn just waiting to take these guys places?:mad:

[progunner1957]

I decided a long time ago that I would never be tied up. That's one of my personal boundaries. I'd rather die fighting, even if it's hopeless.



I agree with Pax on this. Also, never surrender your weapon. More importantly, never let yourself get in a situation where a thug tries to force you to do so.

Everyone should read the story of the Wichita massacre; it is an ugly and brutal ordeal that can happen to anyone who is not prepared. Go to www.wichita-massacre.com

I find it interesting that this story has largely been swept under the rug. The website addresses this and calls it "America's most suppressed massacre."

If the victims had been minorities and the attackers white, my guess is that the media would have given it air time for weeks and it would have been the "hate crime" of the century.

What kind of message does that send?

[seth]

I'm really upset after reading about the Wichita massacre. It's disturbing to me that I had to hear about it from Progunner than our local news, or even national news channels.

As I told him, of course it was racially motivated. There's no way in hell the Carrs would have gone that far with what they did if the victims were ALL Black. I can still see them raping/murdering if the victims were Asian, as well. Btw- that was not meant as a racist statement against African Americans, as I'm a minority myself (Asian/White from Hawaii) but I'm just trying to point out the fact that it was a hate crime.

KyJim: So you don't even answer the door for the mailman, UPS guy, random friend dropping by, neighbor, etc? :confused: A little too paranoid for my tastes....then again, I always keep my door locked and have a peephole to spy on the person before opening the door.

[Mikeyboy]

My wife drives me crazy because she has a habit of leaving the door wide open (screen door closed). I grew up in a bad neighborhood and when I'm home the doors are closed and locked. I don't care how nice my neighborhood is now, I don't care if it is the middle of the day, my door are closed and locked. However, I will not walk around my house with my handgun, I have small children. I have an alarm system and decent lighting. Plan is wife and kids go out the back door and I hold them off at the front, while trying to trip the alarm to call the cops. If we are upstairs asleep. My wife goes to the kids room, locks the door, and takes the kids out the window. I'm holding the bad guys advance this time with a gun and a cell phone dialing 911. My theory is I will take the bullet, stab wound or beating as my family escapes. Unless you have your weapon drawn and pointing at the front door 24/7 you will not be able to stop someone in your family from being hurt or killed when a group of armed thugs kick down your door unexpectly.

[pax]

However, I will not walk around my house with my handgun, I have small children.
Funny, that's exactly why I walk around my house with my handgun! :D (I couldn't figure out a safer place to keep it accessible.)

To each his own.

pax

It is dangerous to confuse children with angels. -- David Fyfe

[stratus]

The way I see it, if you don't keep a gun by your side when you're in your house, then what's the point of having one IN the house?

BG: Hello, mind if I break into your home?
You: Sure, just let me go grab the handgun out of my safe. It'll only take a minute.
BG: Aight... just let me know when it's cool to shatter this sliding door.
You: Be right back.
BG [raising his voice so you can hear him from the other room]: Shame about the Astros, huh?
You: Don't remind me. ...Okay, I've got it.
BG: Right. Here goes! [Breaks into your home]
You: You know, I don't feel that I can shoot you now. After our conversation, I feel we have developed a bond between resident and assailant.
BG: I feel the same way. We should go bowling.
You: What about the glass?
BG: I'll pay for it if you let me take some stuff out of here.

Well... that went to kind of a weird place... still, I stand by my point.

[gb_in_ga]

"The way I see it, if you don't keep a gun by your side when you're in your house, then what's the point of having one IN the house?"

That's the conclusion that I came up with. The only way I know of that I would always have a gun right where I need it when I need it is to have it on my person. That way, I don't need to think: "Ok, they are kicking in the door, where is the closest gun?". No question where, if I've got it on my person or within arm's reach. It doesn't do me any good if it is in the safe. It does me no good if I'm downstairs and the gun is in the beside table upstairs. It does me no good if it is in the closet. So I've either got one pocket carry, IWB or sitting right by my side.

After all, the sliding glass patio door is just right there, right in eyesight of the family room, and the up-stairs are right in front of the entry way door. I have no guarantee that I would have any time at all to fetch a weapon, not given the way my house is laid out. It isn't a bad layout for "lights out" defense on the 2nd floor, but there just isn't a good way to get upstairs if an invasion happens while I/we are downstairs.

About small children: We don't have any and won't, so it isn't an issue.

[springmom]

+1 Stratus.

When you have children under the age of majority, your guns must either be locked up or on your person. If it is on you, your child will not be able to grab it out of your purse or nightstand or whatever. If it is on you, you do not have to worry about "time to react". You need almost none.

My CHL instructor does recommend to not keep a loaded gun by the side of the bed, on the theory that many of us need the physical activity of getting out of bed to go GET the ammo (assuming the unloaded gun is by the bed). I probably do not need to do that. OTOH, I absolutely, positively, will not allow my husband to keep a gun by his side of the bed; I would not even sleep in the same house if he did. Reason? He sleepwalks, sleeptalks, doesn't have a clue what he's doing or saying. Usually it's totally goofy talking, but he has been known to go do things. One of those things CANNOT be "get ahold of a gun". Therefore, the loaded gun is on my side under my control where he can't get it without waking me.

Nobody is going to get into the house without me being able to react. Alarm, dogs, the noise of breaking glass or kicked in door, or even the civilized sound of a doorbell...none need be met with "oh, nuts, I have to go find my gun!"

Carry. It may save those children's lives.

My $.02.

Springmom

[stratus]

Right now, I have my OACP in my lap, and my gf has the USP by the bedside while she naps. :)

I don't have my CHL yet - she does - but, if I carry out in the world, I don't see how different rules would apply to me when I'm in my home, which is a thing to be defended.

[FirearmFan]

There is something so cool about a woman who carries a gun! :cool: Gotta keep working on my girlfriend....

[PythonGuy]

Sad to report that our local newspaper, Newsday, just had an article that 3 more home invasions took place in the past day. Even though they caught the original gang, new vermin have taken their place. Same MO, broke in through sliding doors and weak apt doors, pulled guns, and pistol whipped and robbed. In at least one case a single woman lived with her 15 year old daughter. Imagine when we get the gun ban like SanFran?

[Musketeer]

I know what you mean, I live on LI as well.

Just before leaving for a business trip a couple weeks ago I bought my wife a Remington 870 with an 18 1/2" barrel. She also now keeps her cell phone on a charger in the bedroom. She understands that if she hears what she thinks is a person in the house she is to leave our 3 yr old daughter locked in her room and cover the stairs with the shotgun until the cavalry arrives. She also knows to call the police after she has secured the stairs.

We make a point of keeping the downstairs doors and window locked closed. Even in the summer when oppened for ventillation there are blocks on them to keep more than an arm getting in. We also have a 103 pound Rhodesian Ridgeback who owns the downstairs. If anyone gets near the house he lets us know. So far I do not know of one home invasion on LI where a medium to large breed dog was present.

[PythonGuy]

Good point Musketeer, I have a smaller dog but she barks like crazy if anyone or anything comes near our home. I came to the same conclusion, I have not read about any dogs being present in the homes that have been invaided. Additionally, the main point of entry seems to be mostly sliding doors of which I have none. A few of the people actually had the doors unlocked so the perps just slid them open and entered! The woman from the last invasion was naked in her bathroom having just finished a shower, she was blow drying her hair when the gun came up in her face. She actually smacked the gun with the blow dryer and the thieves took off, what dumb luck. And I do mean dumb, she could have easily been killed but was lucky it was just two punk kids instead of cold blooded killers like the previous gang. We are such easy picking here on Long Island, my neighbor for example has sliding doors and they are always left unlocked. I wish people would be more careful and safe, this is reality and could happen anywhere but I guess its like the smokers who don't yet have cancer, they think it'll never happen to them, till it does.....:(

[Musketeer]

The sliding glass door thing always worried me... We do not have one by my mother, who lives alone in a good sized house near Ronkonkoma, does. She also has absolutely ZERO common sense about home security, leaving doors unlocked and assuming the neighbors would see any strangers... She has an unloaded shotgun in the bedroom inside a case from before my father passed away; living alone there is no reason it should not be ready to rock and roll. She is only about 60 and still works a full week. Her mind is fully there so this is not old age clouding her logic but the effect of growing up in the "Long Island Protective Bubble." She also is a smoker who thinks she will never get cancer...

My wife is glad to have the dog but figures if someone really was determined they would just shoot it. I have yet to get her to beleive that these home invaders do not want to make a lot of noise and attract attention, as a gunshot would do. They also want to catch you completely unaware and prevent any resistance. You cannot reason with a dog so I would think they are avoiding such houses. Just the prescense of the animal works wonders in keeping all sorts of unwanted visitors away. We are far from a rich house with no obvious wealth so it is not like they figure we would be worth more trouble than another house on the same block without a dog.

I am more concerned about recent happenings on my block. It sounds like one of the kids across the street may be a part of a gang or in trouble with one. We do not know the family well but they practice "free range" child rearing. Parents are hardly ever in sight and the kids are alone and completely unsupervised. Too see them on Sunday you would consider them a decent working class Italian family, with brothers, sisters, cousins and grandparents coming over for Sunday dinner. The rest of the week though it is different. A couple are troublemakers and large groups have been congregating in the street. Event the 11 year old makes a habit of getting into trouble up and down the block and is home alone almost every day. My next door neighbor saw a group of over 50 she believes and the rumour was they were "looking" for a kid on the block. Given my neighbor's propensity for gossip I would cut the group in half but 20+ is still a respectable group. We make certain when the older kids from across the street are hanging out in the street that the dog gets some free time in the yard. You can see the 6' stockade fence shake when he hits it and he lets them know he is there. I want every one of those pieces of garbage to know that at the very least there is a dog there that could take out their throat.

[PythonGuy]

My wife is likewise unconcerened about security and leaves the door open when letting the dog out, and it makes me nuts. I have drilled it into our kids head about the door and they both lock it when they let the dog out and make sure that all the doors are secure. Forget about me keeping a loaded gun nearby, my wife would go ballistic so that is out of the question. I maintain security when I am home and that is really all I can do, I hope in the next couple of years we can move to another state where there are more personal freedoms, and less taxes.