My first "What if..."

[azredhawk44]

What if...

Gee Dubya somehow finds a way to implement his nationwide "martial law" scheme (or regional quarantine) and gun confiscation goes into effect?

Do you hide your guns when the searches start?

Do you hide your "must have" SHTF guns now before something like that happens?

Do you go out in a blaze of leaded glory when he gets Janet Reno and Dianne Feinstein to help with weapons confiscation?

And what do you do to undo the martial law status in your area?

Or do you join the sheeple...?:barf:

[tanksoldier]

What are you smokin'?

[Dwight55]

There are far too many reasons why that will not happen, . . . suffice to say that there isn't enough time left to get it done on his watch, . . .

But if the wicked witch of Arkansas gets in, . . . better get your hole dug, . . . JIC.

May God bless,
Dwight

A woman's place is in the house, . . . but not the White House.

[noone]

well i dont see this happening in my lifetime, or for that matter ever. but if it did happen all i can say is it would suck to have the job of rounding up guns, especially when they knock on my door.
#1.no
#2.no
#3.no, i would win
#4. im not giving away plan.

[USP45usp]

I am 37, I should have at least another 37 to go (I doubt it) and I know that anything can happen.

What if this happens.

Well, I guess that I won't see the next birthday that I would have had around that time.

Hey, better than cancer and disease isn't it.

And no, not internet blustering. I know of only one absolute in life, and that is death. I've made my peace (but I haven't learned how to spell) and if the time comes, then I know that I will be taken care of on another realm that is not of the earth.

Wayne

[Res O. Lushin]

What if...

Gee Dubya somehow finds a way to implement his nationwide "martial law" scheme (or regional quarantine) and gun confiscation goes into effect?

Do you hide your guns when the searches start?

Do you hide your "must have" SHTF guns now before something like that happens?

Do you go out in a blaze of leaded glory when he gets Janet Reno and Dianne Feinstein to help with weapons confiscation?

And what do you do to undo the martial law status in your area?

Or do you join the sheeple...?

Wow. You are a freak.

[azredhawk44]

I don't think it is very unrealistic.

The media is making a big hype of this bird flu that supposedly if it mutates correctly will kill millions worldwide.

Bush made an off the cuff comment last week about looking into using military for policing and quarantine of large parts of the country in the event the bird flu came to the US.

In the meantime, millions worldwide = maybe 25,000 very old, already sick, and very young in the US. Africa, South America and SE Asia may be hit hard, but not us. We are too healthy over all as a country.

But, Bush has presented it and Dianne Feinstein seconded it in Congress the other day.

It could be the next bipartisan breach of civil rights to accompany the patriot act, the suspension of habeus corpus, the brady bill, the AWB in 1994, the NFA of 1986, the machine gun act in the 30's.

Keep an ear to the ground when Congress gets ready to address this issue of Federal Preparedness for emergencies. Listen for suspension of posse cometatus.

But, tactically (since this is the Tactical Forum), what do you do?

Accept it? Attempt to dodge it somehow? Or is this then the time to fight?

[Night Watch]

:rolleyes: Hmmm? Doubt very much that anything like that will ever happen here!

[USP45usp]

He asked for your thoughts, not your opinions on him as a person.

"Freak" is a personal attack. Unless you were talking of yourself, then that should be okay.

If you wish to play, then answer the thought given, don't sit there and throw stones, it's getting rather boring to have to read such things when a member asks a question or set's up a "what if".

Wayne

[Res O. Lushin]

www.dictionary.com

freak: A thing or occurrence that is markedly unusual or irregular


How can it be personal, if I have never met him. A statement such as his was abnormal. 2700 posts, I guess that makes you the forum police? If you don't like peoples responses, maybe you should spend a little less time on the computer.

[Russ538]

Freak sounds like a personal attack to me, too.

TFL is one of the more respectable firearms forums out there. Wayne is just trying to keep it that way. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion other than calling someone a freak and starting arguments, it might be a better idea to click the "back" button and move to the next thread.

BTW, a personal attack does not imply that you've met the person.

[Rob P.]

How can it be personal, if I have never met him. A statement such as his was abnormal. 2700 posts, I guess that makes you the forum police?......

Why does this smell like a troll? If you are truly not a troll I apologize for saying so but your words seem to follow the script of a troll.

Set up an attack. Respond with "I did not", "I never", or some other words to that effect and immediately riposte with more "button pushing" inflamatory words in an attempt to create the illusion of being victimized when those who are insulted respond to the attack.

If you are not a troll you should learn some etiquette and refrain from following the script.

[Res O. Lushin]

Car freak, boat freak, knitting freak, gun freak. Take it how you want, it was an observation, not an attack. Now, if I said he was an idiot, that is a different story. Maybe I should use one of those smiley face thingys so others don't get all defensive.

[Res O. Lushin]

First of all, azredhawk44, sorry your thread is getting derailed.

...learn some etiquette and refrain from following the script.

What are you talking about? Since when are opinions and ideas bad etiquette? When you don't like them? Where can I find this "script" so I don't fall victim to the infamous status of a troll?

[Hayley]

Name-calling, I learned from Mrs. Smitha in first grade, is bad manners. But this kind of special pleading:

"The media is making a big hype of this bird flu that supposedly if it mutates correctly will kill millions worldwide.

Bush made an off the cuff comment last week about looking into using military for policing and quarantine of large parts of the country in the event the bird flu came to the US.

In the meantime, millions worldwide = maybe 25,000 very old, already sick, and very young in the US. Africa, South America and SE Asia may be hit hard, but not us. We are too healthy over all as a country.

But, Bush has presented it and Dianne Feinstein seconded it in Congress the other day."

...is total rubbish. A front-loaded assumption, selective "evidence" that seems to provide support, leading one to conclude that the original assumption is legitimate is bad manners too--not to mention out of place in "one of the more respectable forums out there".

...gotta go now to purchase more silver. The Masons, after more than three hundred years (or is it four?) of planning, will soon bring about a crisis in the
international money supply!

[RosaMariTB]

"A woman's place is in the house"

What if God decides to bless those who can understand that a woman's place is not just in the house but any place she chooses to be whether is a red, white or blue house or even a kennel ?

This post refers to # 3 above; I'm just slow with computers, sorry.

[Clinot]

Doubt that would happen, but if it did I am quite confident that a lot of 'boating accidents' would suddenly start to be reported.

[xXStarScreamXx]

Bury the guns in th backyard in several places, deep then bury random car parts a little shallower all over the front and back yard so when they bring the metal detectors they will get bored of digging up lugnuts and valvecovers all day.

[stratus]

I can understand "what if" threads even if they are somewhat... imaginative. That's the fun of it. I myself spend a significant amount of time and energy preparing for things that probably won't happen to me, so I can relate. I'm going to suspend my disbelief and answer the original poster's question as to what I would do and why, if such a situation ever occurred.

If any part of the U.S. Government, by its actions, ever revoked one or more of our Constitutional rights as U.S. citizens, then I would not recognize the parties carrying out those actions as members of the true U.S. Government any more than I would recognize a malignant tumor as a part of a human being's original genetic structure. When America is no longer recognizable as America, that's when we all ought to take up arms.

Martial law my @$$. I'd hide the guns if I could, and barring that, I'd fight to protect my right to have them, and I'd die making a huge point. Of course, my motives would be predominantly overlooked and I'd go down in the eyes of the general public as just another raging madman, because I would most likely not be alive to tell people why I did what I did. And if I somehow survived to convey the reasons for my actions (in handcuffs or a hospital, for instance), I'm sure my words would fall on utterly deaf ears. The media's just too liberal. :(

I'm quite serious.

[USP45usp]

For the original thread:

They would have to get the entire military to support the commands given and there would be a few (more than a few sadly) that will carry out their orders without question.

But I don't think that you would get the majority of the military to do so.

You have to remember that the entire federal force out there (excluding the military) is very small in relation to the population in general. The only reason that they can control us and keep us in fear of them is due to they make selective, single targets and then attack. All the rest of us do is watch it unfold on tv, grip the arms of our armchairs and say, "I would never allow that" or "I would do this, or I would do that".

Then take the last gulp of coffee, get into our cars and goto work. Then after it's all over we would hit the boards and "Monday night quarterback" what we would've done if that would have been us.

Knowing full well that we would have done nothing of the sort. If we had done something, we would have been in our cars not going to work but to help the people being prosecuted and murdered.

They know that we will stand-alone and that others will just stay out of it. Since they know this simple fact, they know that they have all the time in the world to get to where they wish to go.

And even if you do survive, you wouldn't have enough money, not even if you had the entire wealth of the 5 riches people in the world, to fight the US government, who has an unlimited supply of money.

Not only that but you would have the media against you, regurgitating everything that they are fed to demonize the person or persons. Using such terms as child molesters, drug dealers, cult, machine guns, and freaks.

You have to remember that warfare is 80% mental, and only 20% physical. Turn the people against the person, and you've already won the war.

Wayne

[Rob P.]

What are you talking about? Since when are opinions and ideas bad etiquette?

When they are not "opinions and ideas" but are, instead, slurs and insinuations against the person. Reread your first post
Wow. You are a freak.

There are NO "opinions or ideas" contained in that single sentence. Instead it is directed at the person and not the topic of discussion. Please reread the FAQ's so you'll know that doing that isn't proper forum manners or etiquette.

back to the subject

#1) I'd refuse to hand over my guns but wouldn't "hide" them. Remember there's not supposed to be a registration list so they aren't supposed to know that I have a gun.

#2) Ditto

#3) IF they came for my guns they'd have to have a warrant. That'd be hard to get without some sort of proof (P Cause) that I was a gun owner. Blanket warrants are illegal and have been determined to be illegal by SCOTUS. But, IF they DID have a warrant, I'd give them the guns listed in the warrant. They would NOT get my bows, knives, BP guns, or any other weapon not listed in the warrant.

#4) Should this occur, there would be a national outcry and many many protests. Lots of people would die in Ruby Ridge, Waco type confrontations and it would be general anarchy. Bush would use that to justify his imposition and confiscation (bootstrapping) but that would not stop the carnage. Eventually the people would either capitulate or formally revolt against the government. I believe that a revolution would occur as our histories have shown that any people repressed in this fashion have ALWAYS overthrown their oppressors.

[PythonGuy]

OK, I'll be more mellow......

[USP45usp]

And yet, another worthless reply to the thread. I guess that if you demean a person, call them names, and then get upset when called out on it, that makes one an intellect that others just can't understand and therefore, everything said by them is worthless.

And I do remember people saying that there are no stupid questions so ask away, you won't get flamed.

I guess the rules and the attitudes of the members have changed. That there are stupid questions so therefore, the board is useless because if you have a question, then it's a stupid question, and thus should have never been asked.

Right?

And if it were so stupid, the admins/mods would have closed it down from the start, not allow it to continue.

I for one thinks that if one doesn't have a productive reply to a members question or "what if" then they should make good use of the back button (that one in the upper left hand side of the brower) and continue on to another thread where their advice or opinion could be of some use.

Wayne

[PythonGuy]

Well, there may not be any stupid questions, but there sure are some dumb ones.:D

[Res O. Lushin]

Rob P................oh forget it, enjoy your weekend.

[USP45usp]

Well, there may not be any stupid questions, but there sure are some dumb ones.

The only stupid, or dumb, question is the one that is not asked.

Think about it ;) .

I've noticed that the only stupid, or dumb, thing that is ever said, is the answer to the question which doesn't answer, or relate to, the question at all.

Wayne

[PythonGuy]

Oh c'mon now I'm just playing, and the "what if" is pretty weak if you are being intellectually honest. But I understand.:p

[swmike]

What would I do if?

I just finished watching "The Untouchables". Like Sean Connery said just before the shootout at the Canadian Border said, "Oh Hell, you've got to die from something".

I guess that sums it up if someone came knocking at my door looking to confiscate my weapons. I too have a plan that I don't wish to reveal. It is very winnable though.

[alpineman]

I don't really get into the "what if" scenarios, but I'll play.

I don't buy all the poo-poo-ing of this scenario. We all saw firearms being confiscated in New Orleans because of a "state of emergency" or some other phrasing of de-facto martial law. Hillary Clinton (and most of the far-left Democratic party, for that matter) does not like us. Look what's going on with Delay and Frist ... you think the Democrats can't take this country? If Hillary takes the White House and the Dems take Congress, you don't think they would confiscate our firearms? Have you forgotten the AWB? Don't kid yourself.

As for the scenario: I honestly can't say what I'd do. I literally hate the very idea that I'd find myself in a position to be forced to break the law. If firearms confiscation was the law, though, I may have to go there. As they say ... if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. I don't like thinking that I may have to be an outlaw.

Thankfully, I live in the smallest county in KY, on several hundred acres laced with caves and mostly wooded. The guns could easily be hidden. If confiscation was left up to the local LEOs, that could also give me options. As I guess is the case in most small, rural areas, my local Sheriff is under-manned and under-funded. I think he hunts. I'd be surprised - shocked, actually - if he took time away from the local meth cookers and car wrecks to try and take the locals' guns away. He has his priorities in order, I bet.

Of course, if the Nat'l Guard and/or military were involved (the movement toward involving the military in domestic "emergencies" completely freaks me out), that might be another story. But I watch the "news". People can hide in caves in the mountains for a long, long time...

[zejs1]

If Hillary takes the White House and the Dems take Congress, you don't think they would confiscate our firearms?
I don't believe it for a second.

Yeah, I remember the AWB. It was a catastrophe for the Democratc party. They were run out of power in Congress because of it, and they still haven't recovered. They won't make that mistake again.

Look how hard they fought to renew it this year.

[SAXD9]

IMO as a LEO.

I think the dumbest of politicians knows that total firearm confiscation would be a suicide mission.
I think there would be very few gun owners that would just hand over their guns without a fight, myself included.
Confiscation would have to be done by the military, because I don't know any cops personally that would take part in this, even if it meant their job. I like my guns, and freedom, much better than I like my job.
I think it would ignite a civil war.
I know how polls and statistics can be skewed to show anything you want, but fwiw, I remember a poll of military personnel several years ago, and a huge majority stated they would NOT carry out orders to confiscate weapons from American citizens.

[MEDDAC19]

...gotta go now to purchase more silver. The Masons, after more than three hundred years (or is it four?) of planning, will soon bring about a crisis in the
international money supply!

Gee, being a fellow of the craft, I don't know whether to laugh at this poor attempt at humor, or feel bad at your lack of knowlege of Freemasonry.

A proud Brother! Audie Murphy, George Washington, Buzz Aldrin, Black Jack Pershing, Ben Franklin, Paul Revere, Eddie Rickenbacker, Booker T Washington, Jonathan Swift, John Wayne, Douglas Macarthur, Sam Colt, Abd-El-Kader, Stephen Austin, Andre Citroen, J Monroe, A Jackson, J Polk, Teddy Roosevelt, etc, etc.........

[Hayley]

"Gee, being a fellow of the craft, I don't know whether to laugh at this poor attempt at humor, or feel bad at your lack of knowlege of Freemasonry."

"...you beat everything, you know that Barn?"

[wayneinFL]

res:
Wow. You are a freak.
I have to say, no matter what the dictionary definition, I've never seen the word "freak" used in a positive manner.

Python guy:

This is a good question. Make jokes all you want. It happened in Louisiana. It didn't even take the federal gov't stepping in, the city did it. If it can happen in Louisiana, it can definitely happen in New York. It can happen and will happen again somewhere, mark my words.

Python guy, what would you do if the police came to your door and asked for your guns? Obviously, they know what you have, so you can't hide anything. I take it you would simply hand them over. I think most owners of registered guns would. Would you work toward doing away with martial law? If so, how?

I think most people, most gun owners included, simply trust the gov't to do what's in their best interests. And they will give the gov't the legal power to do whatever it wants. If you don't think the gov't is bigger than ever before and has more power than ever before, I'd have to disagree with you. If you think the gov't has your best interests in mind, I disagree with you.

If or should I say when we give the federal gov't the power to declare martial law whenever the president "says so" we have to expect something like this to happen. It's simply the nanny state giving birth to the police state. We all want to live in perfect safety, right? The federal gov't is catching heck for not responding quickly enough to a natural disaster. They're not allowed to respond until the state asks them to. They want to power to send the military in whenever the president sees it is needed. Trust me, in my lifetime the president will have power to send federal troops into a state whenever he wants. Posse comitatus is outdated in most people's minds. All we need now is to let down our guard.

That can't happen here!

That's what a lot of people said about the civil war. No way American soldiers are going to shoot other Americans. Boy, were they wrong. Bad enough they were shooting military- they burned the families' houses back home, too. And today's enlightened masses say the gov't will never go around knocking on doors to take guns. :rolleyes: Never under estimate what a government is willing to do to it's own people.

[Res O. Lushin]

I have to say, no matter what the dictionary definition, I've never seen the word "freak" used in a positive manner.

Get out more.

[PythonGuy]

This is one of those times I am hitting the back button. ;)

[azredhawk44]

Look guys, I'm not trying to be fractious in this forum or anything.

I'm also not looking to discuss politics in the tactical forum. I deliberately put this thread in the tactical forum.

So, with that in mind...

What do you do when the President has sufficient power to declare martial law for a flu epidemic, earthquake, or other incident that effects a region of the US, and the military is present to declare martial law and confiscate weapons? Your bill of rights has just been suspended (that's what martial law is), so there is no arguing with the 4 men with M4's in front of your house with a truckful of all your neighbors' guns.

Tactically, there are several different "gun reclaimation" crews in your neighborhood, and if you choose to open fire, a squad of perhaps 20 army soldiers or LEO will be surrounding your home in seconds or minutes.

Do you attempt to hide the weapons for the purpose of self-defense against criminals waiting for your neighborhood's guns to be missing? Criminals will be looking for easy meat in this type of situation...

Do you fight back against the 20+ army boys in your neighborhood and all the reinforcements they can bring?

It's a tough nut to crack...

[zejs1]

If something big enough comes around that they do consider confiscating weapons, I think chances are they're going to be too busy trying to deal with it to actually do the confiscation.

I mean, seriously, they only got around to trying in New Orleans after things had calmed down, and it seemed like they were only doing it to try to convince people who had stayed to leave.

IF they wanted to try it on a national level, they would have to do a thorough search of every residence in the country. If you know they're on the way, what's to stop you from sneaking a few off somewhere else? National gun confiscation would be a Sisyphean task.

There would probably be considerable uproar over wasting resources to round up guns instead of dealing with whatever disaster convinced them it might be a good idea.

[tanksoldier]

Can you think of any large scale regional or national emergency in the last 200 years where the military WASN'T involved? In my hometown the NG plowed the roads when the snow was REALLY bad.

As for the military participating in firearm confisation, remember that our oath is to the Constitution first and foremost. US Army units present in New Orleans, RA and NG both, refused to participate in the NO firearm confiscation. ALSO a federal court ruled the confisation illegal and unconstitutional... which sets a precident for future such actions.

Vigilance is admirable, but this scenario might be just a bit "tinfoil hat" at his point. If Billary gets into the White House (again) THEN I'll start to worry a bit.


Of course, if the Nat'l Guard and/or military were involved (the movement toward involving the military in domestic "emergencies" completely freaks me out),

[Timeframe]

When Ron Paul talks,it'good to listen.

Republican Congressman Slams Bush On Militarized Police State Preparation

Ron Paul says indictment story is far more damaging than media is portraying, avian flu martial law provisions aimed at gun confiscation

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones | October 12 2005

Congressman Ron Paul has accused the Bush administration of attempting to set in motion a militarized police state in America by enacting gun confiscation martial law provisions in the event of an avian flu pandemic. Paul also slammed as delusional and dangerous plans to invade Iran, Syria, North Korea and China.

Ron Paul represents the 14th Congressional district of Texas. He also serves on the House of Representatives Financial Services Committee, and the International Relations committee.

Paul appeared on the Alex Jones show yesterday and raised some interesting points about the possibility of imminent indictments of top Bush administration figures.

"I think there's a lot more excitement coming and it's not going to be good for the Republicans," stated Paul.

"The things that I hear have to do with Karl Rove and Abramoff and that's much much worse than anybody would believe and it involves DeLay as well."


"And that type of an indictment will be much more serious than the indictment of shifting campaign funds around.....there's some political infighting which could make that really interesting."

On the subject of the police state, Paul stated,

"If we don't change our ways we will go the way of Rome and I see that as rather sad.....the worst things happen when you get the so-called Republican conservatives in charge from Nixon on down, big government flourishes under Republicans."

"It's really hard to believe it's happening right in front of us. Whether it's the torture or the process of denying habeas corpus to an American citizen."

"I think the arrogance of power that they have where they themselves are like Communists....in the sense that they decide what is right. The Communist Party said that they decided what was right or wrong, it wasn't a higher source."

Paul responded to President Bush's announcement last week that he would order the use of military assets to police America in the event of an avian flu outbreak.

"To me it's so strange that the President can make these proposals and it's even plausible. When he talks about martial law dealing with some epidemic that might come later on and having forced quarantines, doing away with Posse Comitatus in order to deal with natural disasters, and hardly anybody says anything. People must be scared to death."

Paul, himself a medical doctor, agreed that the bird flu threat was empty fearmongering.

"I believe it is the President hyping this and Rumsfeld, but it has to be in combination with the people being fearful enough that they will accept the man on the white horse. My first reaction going from my political and medical background is that it's way overly hyped and to think that they have gone this far with it, without a single case in the whole country and they're willing to change the law and turn it into a military state? That is unbelievable! They're determined to have martial law."


Paul opined that the martial law provisions now being promoted by the Bush administration were a direct response to people's unwillingness to relinquish their firearms, as was seen in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

"I think they're concerned about the remnant, the remnant of those individuals who don't buy into stuff and think that they should take care of themselves on their own, that they should have their own guns and their own provisions and they don't want to depend on the government at all and I think that is a threat to those who want to hold power. They don't want any resistance to their authoritarian rule."

Paul opined that the government was on a delusional power trip that threatened the country.

"These guys are ready to start a war with Iran, Syria, North Korea or China. They can't possibly do that, it's so insane, we don't have the money, we don't have the troops, we probably don't even have the ammunition."

"But, if they are truly delusional they just might do something that's totally irrational."

Paul expressed his hope that finally some conservatives are waking up to the fact that the Bush administration is a trojan horse, especially after arch-liberal Harriet Miers was chosen by Bush to supposedly move the Supreme Court to the right, even though her record is atrocious and she has been involved in the past covering up for the Bush crime family's activities.

[Bravo25]

1. Some guns may or may not already be hid.
2. Some guns are definately with in close proximaty at all times.
3. No I don't go out in a blaze of glory, I do my best to live to fight another day. Besides if I go out, it sure won't be painted as "Glory" by the infotainment media.
4. Being vocal on forums is more than I should really be doing. What I would do then is, and has been pre-arranged with no way to for me disclose what it would be. Other than to say that this has been a consideration before.

[SatCong]

Should that eventuality come to pass, you would see dead people...everywhere.
SatCong