Children & Gun Safety

[Joven]

I have 2 toddlers at home, gun safety is my #1 concern. How do you guys keep your firearms accesible but childproof?

I keep a pistol in a gunvault mini safe, its locked but easily accesible with the touch keypad, on the top shelf of my closet.

Long guns and the other handguns are kept in a full size safe.

[Avizpls]

Pistols are in a cheap lock box on top shelf of closet

Rifles are freestanding in closet, but locked.

Its all I can do for now. Not theft proof, but "casual onlooker" proof.

[BobK]

Joven, I do the same. Have a pistol box bolted to the top of my dresser and one in the living room. Do yourself a favor and teach them gun safety and how too shoot as soon as you feel that are old enough. Kids are naturally curious. The sooner you educate them the better.

[Twycross]

Rifles - individually cased but unlocked. SG - free-standing in closet w/ shells in the butcuff. Pistol - cased with a loaded mag but unlocked.

The youngest person in the house (my sister) is 13, and everyone knows basic firearm safety. I don't have to worry about little kids getting ahold of my guns and popping themselves in the head.

+1 on BobK's suggestion for early gun education.

[pax]

I have 2 toddlers at home, gun safety is my #1 concern. How do you guys keep your firearms accesible but childproof?
We have five sons in our home, currently ages 15, 13, 12, 11, and 10 (yes, yes, I know. They're all ours, all mixed from the same recipe, and yes, we do know what causes that.)

We've owned guns for most of their lives, but have only been concerned about accessible firearms for about 6 years. At that time, the youngest was 4 years old and all of them were (and are) very active, normal youngsters with predictable amounts of energy & curiousity. They weren't any more naughty than anyone else's kids, but weren't noticeably less naughty than other people's kids either. :p

I considered keeping a shotgun loaded for home defense, then realized that there was no real way to keep it secured enough to be safe from the kids but still accessible enough to be useful. One of our family members suggested storing it loaded on the top shelf of the closet, but I could easily envision one of them climbing up and pulling it down. A two year old on top of my fridge had long ago taught me that no place is truly inaccessible for a kid with enough energy & determination! And anyway, it seemed silly to put the gun in a bedroom when I might want it in a hurry at the front door some night.

Decided to get a handgun, plus one of those fingertip speed safes. Then got thinking, in which room would I put that fancy little safe? The living room? Didn't seem likely. My bedroom? Pretty far from the front door or anywhere else I might need to use it. I had nightmares about having to choose between racing for the safe -- or leaving my children in the same room as a Bad Man when I went for the gun. Shudder.

Of course, if we had more money, I might have bought three or four home defense guns, and three or four fast-access safes, to make sure there would always be one within easy reach. But that wasn't all there was to it.

Somewhere I read an article -- probably on the web somewhere, titled "Keeping the Piece" -- that talked about how determined kids armed with a hammer and a screwdriver could get into a lot of the fast-access safes. Obviously buying good quality could lower that risk, and the technology has improved since then ... but still~!

Did I mention mine are not any less naughty than anyone else's kids? A fast access safe the kids might be able to access without me simply wasn't good enough. And who knew what the other four little darlings were up to in the next room, while I dealt with whichever one needed my undivided attention just then? Hmmmm.

My solution was simply to get a small carry gun, a comfortable holster, and make a committment to carry the gun everywhere I went, every hour I'm awake -- especially at home.

When it's on my hip, I know the little hellions aren't getting into it. I know I can always get to it if I need it and I know it's ready to go and hasn't been left unloaded (or even disassembled) by some forgetful person who got interrupted in the middle of the cleaning job. I know I won't have to run upstairs while being chased by the bogeyman, only to fumble with locks, keys, combinations, or other complex fine-motor skills.

My defense gun is with me, all the time, and ready to go, all the time.

When I'm not awake, I lock my bedroom door and place the gun (in a fanny pack holster) inside a small safe next to my bed; the door to the safe is generally open but as I said the bedroom door is locked. If I get up in the middle of the night for any reason, I either lock the safe, or pull on the fanny pack at the same time I pull on my robe. Looks silly but it works.

Sorry this is such a long-winded answer. Obviously my solution won't work for everyone. But for me, with a lot of active children, a limited budget, a husband who worked late nights, and a house 30 minutes or more from even a fast police response, it seemed prudent to have a gun accessible to me but unaccessible to the little monsters ... and the only way I could figure out to do that was to put it on my hip.

Oh, yes: Do yourself a favor and teach them gun safety and how too shoot as soon as you feel that are old enough. Kids are naturally curious. The sooner you educate them the better.
This cannot be emphasized enough! Child proof locks are a temporary solution to a very permanent problem.

pax

[20cows]

When my children were too young to understand firearm safety, I kept all the guns I wasn't wearing locked up except one. My bedside gun was a 1911 in condition 1 (empty chamber with full mag). The pistol has a 24 pound recoil spring that made it impossible for the children to rack the slide until they were mature enough physically and mentally.

It worked for me.

[leadcounsel]

I don't have any kids now but I think I would keep them all locked in my fireproof safe except one in a minivault on the nightstand for HD when they are young.

Realizing this is expensive, I would build a gunrack and run a cable through the guns or buy an inexpensive rifle metal cabinet.

I would then teach proper firearm safety when they are old enough.

[pax]

The pistol has a 24 pound recoil spring that made it impossible for the children to rack the slide until they were mature enough physically and mentally.
Don't trust that.

1) Kids are sometimes stronger than you expect they will be.

2) Kids are often more clever than you expect them to be ... especially when motivated.

3) Kids have this nasty habit of growing a lot faster than their parents realize.

4) Little kids sometimes have bigger friends.

5) Not every "unloaded" chamber is in fact unloaded -- as altogether too many people have discovered to their sorrow.

6) And finally: Never cocked, you say? Are you sure you never, ever, ever, even once, put the gun down in the wrong configuration? Because that's literally all it takes...

pax

One of the most obvious facts about grownups to a child is that they have forgotten what it is like to be a child. -- Randall Jarrell

[john in jax]

A long time ago (a.k.a before fatherhood) it seems like I had a long gun or a handgun stashed in every room of the house. Now I've got 2 young kids and there always seems to be young cousins and/or young friends over visiting. That means all the guns stay locked up except for my two CCW choices. These two handguns are kept in separate lock boxes high up out of sight of little youngsters.

[tanksoldier]

Gotta go with Pax on this one.

When I do have kids, I will carry a gun on me or keep it locked up. Not sure if I will consider the nightstand next to me safe enough when in bed... have to think on that one. I like the fannypack idea tho.

[MD_Willington]

I remember seeing a description sometime ago of how children end up shooting themselves.

Paraphrased...

"Children, especially young ones/toddlers will not pull the trigger like we do, they have more chance of shooting themselves since they tend to push, not pull, the trigger.

The way that works is they pick up the gun, point it at themselves and push the trigger with both thumbs, resulting in a discharge usually between the eyes because they want to see what comes out."


But on the other hand, more children drown in the toilet each year than are shot.

MD

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There have been some studies done where little kids have worked the slide on guns by leaning their weight against the edge of a table. That takes care of the strength issue.

They have also pulled tough triggers by using teams of kids or both hands.

This is a difficult issue. I've come down on the side of not letting minors have unsupervised access to loaded weapons.

I know that if a few cases, young kids or teens have successfully defended themselves or family in an emergency.

However, even the best teens have hidden lives and friends that the parents don't know about. Their moods change like lightning. I'm going to work on a special edition of a journal about teen suicide. It's frightening.

Some of the parents who say that they have taught their kids strickly and know what's going on - just know jack squat about their kids.



Edited as the spelling muse was on a holiday when I reread this.

[Cazach]

20 Cows,

Condition 1 is cocked and locked with one in the chamber. You are referring to condition 3.

[Dre_sa]

keep your primary weapon in your holster at all times, and everything else in the safe, but easy to load up if needed. while sleeping is another problem. i attatched a holster to my bed between the pillows (one pillow to left and right not pillow on top and pillow under.)

[Clinot]

I was also going to reply about the kid’s ability to rack a slide with weight, I did it on my uncle’s .45 as a child after seeing how the action moved back. Gun safety got taught to me early and I plan on doing the same.

It’s a serious question from the OP because the best solution really seems to be to keep them as inaccessible from youths as possible, but at the cost of you not being able to have it when you need it.

My own solution was to keep a cable slide-locked .45 hidden under a suit jacket in my closet with the clip and key kept in separate locations in the room. If I am not home the gun is on me or if I was not carrying it that day it is in a safe. But this only works when I am home and know that the bedroom door is locked.

I am going to move up to a finger-safe that I plan to keep in a large shoe box under the bed.

I would love to hear other suggestions though for better safety that still offers accessibility in a time of need.

[gddyup]

I have one son (right now, little package on the way next April) and I only have 3 firearms in the house at this time. My primary HD and CCW, the XD, a 10/22, and a Mossberg 410 bolt. The longs stay in the closet tucked away with the clip for the 10/22 in another area. The XD stays loaded and cocked in my holster at all times. When I'm home, I have the XD eitehr on my person, or on top of the firidge for now where my little man can't get at it. I also have a Gunvault that the pistol gets locked into when needed.

Education is going to eb the key though. My uncle taught me firearms safety when I was real young so I had a respect for firearms from the beginning. It's my feeling that the sooner you can get rid of the curiosity factor, the better of you'll be. Once Zach is old enough to fire that XD, he's going to be at the range with me. Even at 2 1/2 years old, I've already started him out. I showed him the unloaded (verified by myself and my wife) XD and let him touch it. He can't hold it obviuosly cause it's too heavy. I show it to him and tell him what it is, what it does, and I also tell him it's not a toy. Any time he sees it now he says "Mommy and daddy's goon... not a toy." When I hear that I stell him good job and we throw a high five!

[axslingerW]

cable lock (then ease the slide forward to release as much tension as posible. even the rifle is locked. shotgun has trigger lock. ammo locked in a secure box. I have 3 kids, and one is special needs. if it's not physically on my body it stays locked at all times. If someone nears the house the dogs will wake me up, and I can be unlocked and loaded in about 1 minute. That is from a deep sleep. That may be a little slow, but I cannot risk a loaded gun in the house.

[butch50]

There must be a million ways to keep the kids and the guns separate, and I have no doubt that you will find those that work best. I will advise on this however: Absent mindedness is the biggest foe you face in this endeavor. Simply forgetting to lock that lock, or put that gun up when you are only going to be out of the room for a second, or turning your back to answer the phone, those kinds of things are the real danger for a person who does everything else right.

Beware that momentary lapse of awareness and you will be fine.

[AJ Peacock]

+1 for Glen E. Meyer.

My kids are 13 and 14 (girl,boy). They are both excellent shots, 'A' students, Sports etc. (they have it together in spite of their dad ;) ). When I am not at home, ALL the firearms are locked up, when I'm home, my CCW pistol is either on my hip or in my bedroom. When they have friends over, its either on my hip or locked in the safe.

Education and eliminating the curiousity factor is Dead on! My kids help me clean/work on the guns, reload and shoot all the time. I trust them with firearms WAY more than most adults I've shot with. However, THEY are Teenagers, They DO NOT have unsupervised access to ANY of the firearms.

When they were toddlers, I NEVER left a firearm unattended. Always in the safe, or on my person.

Hope that helps,
AJ

[GLP Standard]

Im new to guns, so I havent found a better way to store it yet, but I have my slide locked back, with both clips in the case with the gun. The locked case is on the top shelf of my closet, way out of reach of any young kids. Im also getting a lock on my door, per my parents request.

[USP45usp]

All good posts, information.

I don't have kids and my home reflects that. I have guns, gun parts, whole guns that are just now parts, just lying around. No kids come to my home.

Yet, in my home, not only the guns that are together and activated but the gun parts and the whole guns in parts are a danger (small objects which can be chocking objects) and I realize this but don't worry due to no kids.

Yet, if I had kids, I would lock up or have unloaded anything that wasn't, in the house. The only loaded gun would be my carry choice of that day. At night, those hand lock safes would be on my nightstand.

Gun safety would be taught as soon as the kid showed any signs of intelligence (as in, understanding, see, I told you I didn't have kids) and before they lost any sign of intelligence, hence teenagers.

As an observation, gun owners aren't adverse to keeping their guns safe from prying fingers, they don't don't like the anti's pushing their laws on them (us). It's not that we don't wish to be smart about how we store guns, we just don't wish to be forced to do it their way and only their way or go to jail/fine).

Wayne

[Bravo25]

My solution was simply to get a small carry gun, a comfortable holster, and make a committment to carry the gun everywhere I went, every hour I'm awake -- especially at home.

While I have posted elsewhere that I have trained my daughter well, and secretly observed her while out of the room where an unloaded gun was, I have come to rethink this issue. I am completly confident in my training of her, but...No matter how sure I am, I am one who is always plagued with "What If". I have therefore decided to adopt this discipline as my own. It was also a good compromise between the wife, and I as well. So I guess an old dog can learn new tricks.

[John28226]

Joven, if the gun is a revolver, a simple and inexpensive (also accessible) safety device is 2 good quality padlocks keyed alike and a 2 foot length of good chain - both hardware store items. Empty the gun; check to make sure it is empty!; secure the padlock BEHIND the trigger and attempt to pull the trigger. For every revolver I have seen, the padlock shank will act as a trigger block and will not allow the trigger to be pressed far enough to fire. That should be the case with all but the cheapest small shank padlocks. If it works as stated, reload the gun, lock the gun (behind the trigger) to one end of the chain; loop the other end of the chain around the bed frame and lock it there with the other padlock. Each night when the kids are in bed, unlock the gun and place it where you can get to in quickly; remember each morning to resecure the gun. That ritual must be executed every day! Once the children are old enough, teach them gun safety and how to shoot.

My son received his first .22 at age 7 (we kept it in our bedroom - it was a child's stocked miniture lever action single shot); my daughter inherited the same gun at the same age. At that time I kept the handgun (a Smith K 38) loaded with Speer plastic ammo because I felt it would do what I needed to do in an emergency but would not be fatal.

Just suggestions. Try it and see how it works for you. Good question by the way.

John

[losangeles]

My metal cabinet has all my guns and blades and is always locked. It's in my home office, where I hang out most of the day, and I periodically go through it. The key is itself in a secure hiding place in my office desk.

[tanksoldier]

Don't have kids yet but my dad had a similar problem. His solution was to keep his weapon on his belt during the day, and in a duty belt/ holster setup at night over the bedpost so he could put it on over his nightclothes if needed. Keep in mind this was 30-35 years ago.

He aslo made it known to me what would happen if I ever did touch it without permission... that duty belt made an excellent "rod of instruction". I was also taught gun safety and received my own gun as soon as I was old enough... 8 or 9... as single-shot lever-action .22lr.

HE used to walk to school and back with a shotgun with which to "bark" squirrels for the stewpot. Lots of kids did back then, and nobody shot up the place.

The problem today is that kids don't have ENOUGH exposure to guns, so they find them mysterious and interesting, like cigarettes or alcohol.

[clt46910]

The safest way to keep your child safe from guns at home is...NOT TO HAVE GUNS AT HOME.

The safest way to keep your child out of a automoble accident is...NOT TO TAKE THEM ANYWHERE IN A AUTOMOBLE.

The safest way....You get the idea.

We can come up with all kinds of creative ideas as to how to hide, lock, or carry our guns and try keep them out of the hands of our children in our own home. But what about the neighbor or their friends parents that are not as vigilance? What about the gangbanger or wantabe that is going to bring a gun to school and show it off or hand it around?

TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING. The only way to keep your kids safe is that they know about firearms and understand them. Not when they are old enough, whenever you believe that to be. But right now, even from the time they are born. Just as you teach them about anything else.

I grew up around guns, was alway taught never touch them without a adult's permission. Was as normal as breathing, never even thought about doing otherwise. We had loaded guns sitting in the corner of the mud room. (enclosed back porch to you younger ones and city people). They was always there 24/7. There was a lot of us kids around I can not remember any of us ever touching or even thinking about touching a gun without permission. We also would help enforce the rules with the younger children. Was just part of our upbringing.

My daughter is now eight years old, was raised the same way. I trust her completely when it comes to not touching or messing with firearms without my permission. I have set her up fail many times and still do, but she come through everytime. She does shoot, knows about gun safety, and enjoys it. But the the training still goes on and never stops. I trust I can let her go to someone's house and she will know to not mess with a gun and will tell the other children to leave them alone. She will tell an adult about a unsecured gun. She as always been taught to do this, is as normal as breathing to her.

I keep hearing that you can not teach children and they will fail. Never trust them. If you keep that mindset you child will pick it up and they will fail. Teach them well and let them know you know they will succeed, they will not let you down, and will keep themselves safe.

Can you tell I have rather strong feeling about this?....:eek: I just don't by into the whole "kids are not trustworthy" thing.

And for all the PC people that are going to slam me...I do put all my guns aways when her friends visit our home. Yes, I will trust her when she is a teenager.

[pax]

Chuck ~

I absolutely agree with you about the importance of training.

As I said in my post, child-proofing is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

That said... And for all the PC people that are going to slam me...I do put all my guns aways when her friends visit our home. Yes, I will trust her when she is a teenager.
Free advice from a mom to teenagers here. Don't make any promises about what you'll do when she's a teenager, until she's a teenager.

pax

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A teenage story:

1. Kid is an honor student - straight A's
2. Always obeyed parents - no sassing back, etc.
3. Gets his drivers license at 16, perfect scores in Drivers ed.
4. Dad swears he is wonderful kid and always listens. Dad is the master, patriarch, spirtual leader and kid is his loyal disciple.
5. Day after gets license, kid asks to drive Dads' pride and joy around the block. It is a souped up Chevy Nova with a 496 blah, blah. Dad says only if you go around the block.
6. Wonder child picks up a friend, crashes into tree at 100 mph and is killed.

This dad swore up and down what a great kid he had and the evidence documented it.

Just as all guns are always loaded, you cannot blithely assume your kids are always going to 'obey' your rules around guns. It is not PC crap, it is reality. In fact, the risk is a kind of conservative PC crap of parents who assume that their rules are obeyed as law, that the kids don't have secret lives or that a momentary pressure can't lead to problems.

However, I believe in Darwin and so those who just want to trust lectures and not have a careful view about unsupervised access to firearms by kids can go give one for evolution.

We have so much trouble with kids doing drugs and committing suicide that I take a very jaundiced view of those who swear their kids won't do XYZ and in fact the more sure they are - the more I wonder.

[20cows]

Quote:
The pistol has a 24 pound recoil spring that made it impossible for the children to rack the slide until they were mature enough physically and mentally.

Don't trust that.

1) Kids are sometimes stronger than you expect they will be.

My wife still can't rack it.

[clt46910]

Pax, point taken...I still think I will be able to trust her. If you do not lose your connection with your children you will be able to trust them. To many people are too busy to take the time to talk to their children or even know who their friends are. I spent a lot of time with kids over the years as the single family friend. Saw a lot of different ways to raise kids, saw what worked and what did not work. Saw what kids did to fool their parents and watched kids work with their parents.

Glenn...After over about a 100 years(the only ones I can account for) of children being raised like this in our family we have never had one gun related accident. Except for my father that had an eye damaged when a piece of .22 casing hit him in the eye from a malfuntioning gun. It is not an assumption but a fact. It has worked for many years for our family with a lot of kids, I think I will stay with what works.

The kid in your story put on a good front with his parents. How did he get away with it? Maybe the parents was not as involved with him as they should have been? Maybe should have looked farther then face value. They are your children, look past the front they put up for you. I see a lot of people that are like your friend, the kids puts on the front that his parents wants and they never sit down and talk to them and find out what is really going on. If your kid has a secret life, then you are not paying enough attention to what your kid is doing. You are not in his life enough. They may not like it but get into the middle of their life. Know what is going on and what they are thinking. They will talk to you if you make the effort.

Before you tell me it will not work...it does. Seen it work many times, and still working today.

[pax]

clt46910,

Let me try it again.

After your child is raised, you might have the credentials to make that speech.

Right now, your daughter is not the same person she will be eight years from now. That's not a bad thing and it's not a good thing. It's not a threat or a promise. It's a certainty. Every bit as certain as death and more certain than taxes is the fact that human beings change as they develop.

Yep, it takes a lot of time to raise a child -- more time and considerably more attention than most parents these days manage to devote to the task. But it's dangerous to confuse children with angels, and even a perfect father can have rebellious children (the Prodigal Son's dad was symbolic of who?)

The rapids are still ahead of you, not behind you yet, and while you've seen what you think you are doing work for others, you don't yet know what your family's ride through the rapids is going to be like.

pax

She discovered with great delight that one does not love one's children just because they are one's children but because of the friendship formed while raising them. -- Gabriel Garcia Marquez

[pax]

20cows ~

Unload the gun.

Check that it's unloaded.

Check again.

Check one more time.

Then take it and push the front top edge of the slide into a hard surface, like the edge of a table. You could lean a little weight on it, say as much as a small child weighs. Back comes the slide, easy as pie. And that took no muscular strength whatsoever.

pax

[losangeles]

Great tip about training as way to ensure safety with kids!

[clt46910]

Pax...I am 57, this is my youngest child. I already have the credentials to make the speech. Like I said, it has worked before and it will work again. Not just with me, but with a lot of my family. We have no children in jail, no children on drugs, we have had a few traffic tickets. Most of the grown ones have good educations and good jobs. I am talking not only my children but those of my brothers, sisters, and cousins. You put the time and efford into your child and you will see the results.

To assume that things will not work out or that your child will in someway fail you just gives both you and the child the mindset to fail. That seems to be the accepted idea today. It is a crap shoot if your child comes out OK or not. That is not accepted in my family. The child is given the training and guidance to succeed. Not just in the early years but in their teen years also. Don't give up on them just because it gets harder.

I would hope my daughter will not be the same person in eight years. She will be more mature, responsible, and knowledgeable then she is today. There is no such thing as a perfect father, just as there is no such thing as a perfect child. But there are good fathers and good children.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The hand of biology may reach out. Some depressions, schizophrenias and the like clearly have neurological causes. They develop slowly, even in the best kids and you can see a good kid sink into troubled waters.

While some branch of the family may not have trouble - you never know when some recessive genetic horror might combine in your kid.

It also the case that for some reason, your kids might face a stressor that the family has not faced before. A stress-diathesis model predicts than then you might see a crack.

Since that can happen and kids can pull the wool over your eyes, it would be my choice that I would not allow kids up through the roughest of the teen years unsupervised access to loaded guns. My call - my caution is that you cannot guarantee that you know your kids' lives, stresses and biology.

You give kids' curfews for the same reasons. I'm 57 also and a psychologist, and a father. I see too many good parents with troubled kids. There are forces that lectures don't touch and genetics/biological surprises.

[clt46910]

Glenn...I agree that could happen and it has. That could be something that would be out of my control. So is the fact that a careless driver could hit my child and kill them. Or they may fall asleep, get careless while driving and kill themself or others. Then should I not allow her to drive a car?

With those things possible why do we give them access to the most dangerous weapon of all? A moving vehicle. The Possibility of some "recessive genetic horror" is possible in anyone of us.

"It also the case that for some reason, your kids might face a stressor that the family has not faced before. A stress-diathesis model predicts than then you might see a crack."

Which can happen in an adult as well. I believe the term use to be called "Going Postal".

All I am saying is that Guns are not any more dangerous then a lot of other things around your house. With proper training and knowledge your children will be as safe around them as any other power tool, Chain saw, electric outlet, baseball bat and any other dangerous thing they was taught to respect or use properly.

We seem to take on a mystical view of a firearm as some magic thing that has a will of it own and if you are not of a proper age or don't control it in a certain way it will hurt you. It is only a tool. If properly handled it is no more dangerous then a lot of other things you use everyday. In fact a lot less dangerous then some. I think it is time we, as gun owners and shooters, learn to think of them as what they are and not keep falling into the trap that the anti-gunner have backed us up into. Stop believing they are evil things that need to be locked and caged up constantly for the safety of the masses.

And learn to trust teenagers, for every bad one their are hundreds of good ones. Just because the news media and some of the medical profession makes them all out to be hominoid raging zombies with little free will does not mean they actually are. I have found them to be a lot less deceitful then a lot of adults.

Glenn....that last was not a stab at you personally. Please do not take it as such. I just don't buy into a lot of what comes out about kids that get into trouble being unbalanced or emotionally challenged when a lot of times it boils down to poor parenting, no family support, etc.

[Clinot]

...We seem to take on a mystical view of a firearm as some magic thing that has a will of it own and if you are not of a proper age or don't control it in a certain way it will hurt you. It is only a tool. If properly handled it is no more dangerous then a lot of other things you use everyday. In fact a lot less dangerous then some. I think it is time we, as gun owners and shooters, learn to think of them as what they are and not keep falling into the trap that the anti-gunner have backed us up into. Stop believing they are evil things that need to be locked and caged up constantly for the safety of the masses.

I agree with most of what you stated, but have to digress a bit on this one. Firearms ARE that mystical magical image. They represent power and authority to some, death and destruction to others, and tools of aggression or defense and hunting to another set of people.

Some of this is true, some of it is the portrayal they receive in the media (by media I mean all forms: The good gun with a gun, the bad guy with the gun, the solider with the gun, etc..)

Nonetheless, and the reason for my reply is that the reason I disagree with that is takes me back to a converstation with the wife many years ago about leaving a knife on the cutting board after the food was put away. We would argue over it, her point being that it was on the counter and that was that, and I pointing out that it was a dangerous thing to have out in the open -specifially that as I treated any TOOL, that tool should be put away until needed.

We eventually compromised (married men hear me: I won :)) but only due to the fact that a few years later we had a toddler roaming about the house. And she saw my point of putting away tools, or locking away tools when not in use. I don't leave my drills where they lay at the end of the day because I'm done with them. Responsible tool ownership tells me that someones toe could be injured by my diamond tipped drillbit as they walk by my drill, or someone who doesn't know how to use my drillbit may come along a try to use it on a project that it is not designated for.

Point being it that you have to respect the tool for what the tool CAN do, and not what you think the tool SHOULD do. Because not everyone is going to subscibe to your logic or effort when it comes to the responsiblity of that tool. Not everyone without the proper background or life experiances can manage that tool.

The cars and guns in your example while vastly different each require a different set of training and responsibility. I trust my child but I still wont leave my garage door open with the keys in the car ignition hoping that they will understand the point stated or not that they should not be driving without the knowledge of how to or the license to do so.

Carry on!