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Coop de Ville
October 8, 2005, 10:56 AM
Good morning all.

Posted this a while back and without taking up too much space and time explaining why I'm not going back to the original smith....

Wanted to know if anyone here has experience soldering or epoxying a Wilson Scattergun ghost ring rear sight to an 870 receiver.

Long story short, a smith mounted it with the 2 screws slightly right of center... There's not enough offeset to drill new holes (it's off maybe a 1/16 th to an 1/8 th of an inch).

Long story short, I need someone else to fix it....

So, can this be done?
And, anyone know anyone in Northern VA who whould do it?

Thanks for the help -Coop

James K
October 8, 2005, 11:16 AM
I don't think epoxy would hold. Soldering might work if the smith makes sure to use heat paste and a heat sink to keep the rest of the receiver from getting too hot.

The holes could be filled with plug screws and then redrilled, but there would have to be enough distance between centers to do that (there has to be two distinct holes with no or only a slight overlap, not one elongated hole).

My inclination would be to have a good guy with a heliarc weld up the holes using a soft steel rod and then redrill using the proper jig. If done with care, the sight base might cover the work so polishing and rebluing would not be needed.

Jim

Coop de Ville
October 8, 2005, 11:25 AM
Thanks for the help.

The receiver would cover both sets of holes since it only has to move a very small amount.

-Coop

Harley Quinn
October 8, 2005, 11:47 AM
Gunsmith said, just move the the rear sight over a couple of clicks...Sure...

First the job is crap and then the guy has no good solution for the look of a crummy job. Too bad but I have seen quite a few crummy gunnies over my period of time in this hobby/business.

First thing to do is take the sight off. clean the area with a clean patch with lacquer thinner or some other degreaser. Clean the bottom of the sight and the barrel. Some times when they tap the barrel they will not clean the extra thread sticking up (burr)...

Get your drill and bit (larger) so it can clean the burrs and make a recess ...Not to much, just so they are slightly recessed. Dremel is ok if you have one with the right grinding tool. I would grind the screw off so they will be visible from the top but not stick through the bottom of the sight, that way they won't be touching the barrel or receiver.

Get some fine grit sand paper and sand the bottom of the sight and the barrel where it is going to go, be careful not to go outside, the size of the sight on the barrel dont want to mess up the bluing. I use a fine file and make some obvious marks on the barell and the sight helps purchase. It will hold.

Get an epoxy that you like, lot's of good ones out there. I personally like J-B weld. Mix them together with a stick 'small' I like tooth pics blunted. Then apply the epoxy to the sight get some into the holes and on the screws.

Don't be messy, use small tooth picks and small amount of epoxy on the screws more on the bottom will hold them..Add it from the bottom of the sight part that is going against the barrel...

Make sure you get it into the holes in the barrel, helps hold and onto the bottom of the sight. The excess is easier to clean when it has dried a day. but not longer then 8 hours starts to get really hard.

I use xacto knives or razor blades to clean up. Some mastic tape should hold it in place for the 8 hours and then let it sit after you clean it up for at least 24 hours. It should be done in a warm area 65 or better.

Good luck. :)

Harley

Dfariswheel
October 8, 2005, 03:01 PM
My FIRST move would be to find a GOOD gunsmith and let him take a look at it.
Often these botch jobs can be saved by a good 'smith by relocating, off-set drilling to larger screw sizes, or patching holes.

One recommended GOOD 'smith in Virginia is:

NORTHERN VIRGINIA GUNWORKS
Sandy A. Garrett Jr. and Robert H. Garrett
7518-K Fullerton Rd., Springfield, VA 22153; (703) 644-6504
He's a good pistolsmith who also does shotgun work.

If you can't find someone, or he says there's no 'Fix", then look at other methods.

Epoxy MIGHT hold if you do a good job as explained above.
The critical parts of using epoxy is getting the parts CLEAN and thoroughly degreased, getting a really good exact mix of components, then getting them thoroughly mixed together, and applying MILD heat to help get a hard cure.

Another factor is roughening the surfaces up and even using holes to form "locks" for the epoxy to lock onto and into.

An even stronger job can be done by "sweating" the base on with a good soft solder.

One of the silver-BEARING, SOFT solders will work well.
These are NOT real silver solder or braze, they're soft solder with about 3% silver content to strengthen and prevent tarnishing.
This type melts at less than 450 degrees, so there's not the risk of using real silver braze that melts at temps of over 1100 degrees.

Either the epoxy or soft solder should hold pretty well, as long as you don't give the sight a good bump.

The preferred method would be soft solder for the additional strength, but the epoxy is easier to use, and I'd consider that first.

If you get a good bond, the surface area of the sight base should form a pretty strong job.

If it does come off later, you can go with the soft solder.

T. O'Heir
October 8, 2005, 08:24 PM
Silver solder, not just solder. And remove the bluing where you will solder the sight on.

Dfariswheel
October 9, 2005, 12:48 AM
NO silver solder.

You have to heat the metal to a red heat, above 1100 degrees.

This would mean that you would have to remove the ejector assembly, the shell latches, AND refinish the receiver.

THIS would require buying special riveting tools to replace the ejector assembly and to stake the shell latches back in place.

Get it little TOO hot and you'd run the risk of the brazed joint holding the magazine tube in place loosening.
BIG MESS.

Coop de Ville
October 9, 2005, 10:04 AM
Thanks for the info.

JB weld sounds good as does a product called hot stuff from brownell's that somebody on another forum recommended.

I played with it yesterday and was getting cloverleafs offhand at 25yrds. wiht brenneke KOs. Not bad for me I'm trying to get over the recoil and with the heavy trigger I'm having a hard time.

The rear is drifted almost completely to the left, probably a 16th or 32nd from flush left... so at least it's not hanging over :rolleyes:

Time has a funny way of making things seem less important to me, like the ding on my front fender some knucklehead gave my new car that I've been meaning to fix for 9 months.... but I digress. I'm going to think about leaving it as is for a bit and see if I can ignore it...

It's a shooter and for some reason I want to use it as a rifle. S&B 00 buck patterned 5" at 10yrds and something like 15" at 20 yrds with a flyer that stretched it to more like 20" I will be taking your collective advice and test some tactical buck.

Thans again I'll post when I decide to remount. Both those products look like they would be very strong....

Best -Coop

mmgunsmithing
October 28, 2005, 06:52 AM
Hi Coop,
Please come by with the Remington and I'll show you the holes/sights are not off center. Then we'll figure how to get it to POA for you. Hope to talk/see you later.
Mike

Unclenick
October 28, 2005, 11:09 PM
Whether to braze with real silver solder or not depends on the solder alloy melting point and your skill with a torch. 1100°F is the usual temper for gun barrels, so theoretically any alloy with that melting point or lower should be safe. Rather than risk it, I wiould take Dfariswheel's advice and look at a low temperature silver-bearing solder like Brownells' High Force 44. These lead-silver alloys have about 5 times the strength of tin-lead solder and melt at a lower temperature.

Also, if you know the hardness of the reciever, you might find screws to match. I know a fellow who got a close match with some screws, trimmed and slotted them to go in flush with the surface, then ran them into the misdrilled holes with red Loctite. The Loctited screws allowed drilling in the correct location and became part of the new threaded screw hole.

Nick

Harry Bonar
October 30, 2005, 10:59 AM
Dear Shooter:
There is a way to do this; it's really simple(?)!

What you could do (you'll never live with this gun until you know it's right) is to drill two holes of a significant diameter that will obliterate the poor drilling and taping job.
Then thread them with as fine a thread as you can find. Then make, or find, two bolts and clean them up and "tin" them with just some soft solder (as you know you must disassemble the action) and the action too; use some NO-KORODE soldering flux and with the action and bolt stock heated screw the bolts in and rotate several times. Let cool. Very carefully grind any protrusion into the interior action space and on top. If you got into the "groove" on top don't try to rectify that.
You should now be able to correctly drill and tap new holes and touch everything up with G-96 cold blue.:D
"Sweating" as this is called is extremely strong - cartridge cases (unloaded of course) can be "tinned" and sweated together at the heads and the cases will tear before the heads separate.
This just might be a treatment that will restore the dignity of the shotgun and satisfy your mind - this is important!
Best of circumstances----- Harry B.