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View Full Version : .357 Rounds for Desert Eagles ONLY???????


Little Wolf
September 24, 2005, 08:28 PM
Went to a gunshow today, I was browsing the table of one of the custom reloaders there who had products to offer.

He showed me the three types of .357 ammo he had. The "mild" loads, the "medium" loads, and the "hot" loads.

When I asked him about the 4th type of .357 ammo on the table he told me,

"Don't touch that, that .357 is loaded for Desert Eagles ONLY!"

This didn't quite compute with me, as I figured a revolver would be able to handle, if anything, HOTTER ammo than a semi auto could.

He told me that the Desert Eagle has such a heavy slide, three recoil springs, etc. that ammo has to be loaded extra hot for it in order to function correctly. He then told me that this ammo was in no way able to be shot through a revolver, even a heavy one, as it would damage the gun and the cylinder someone. He said it is so hot that a friend of his ruined his cylinder firing it.

Now, is it me, or is there something funny with this story? A heavy .357 should be able to handle VERY HOT .357 loads! How could .357 for a DE be so much hotter? I know places where I can buy .357s loaded to give 800 ft/lbs of energy out of 6" guns. How could this ammo be hotted than that???

psycho nut
September 24, 2005, 08:39 PM
I think that someone is confused. :confused: Desert Eagle only, HA.

281 Quad Cam
September 24, 2005, 08:48 PM
He was full of it... Any difference would be in the casing to work better in a semi... There would be no desert eagle load so hot that no revolver could fire it.

USP45usp
September 24, 2005, 09:04 PM
IIRC, the desert eagle has Two (2) not three recoil springs.

A revolver that is rated for +P+ will digest some really hot loads. I wouldn't use them in anything underrated.

The guy was blowing smoke out of his butt (and I bet they were more expensive, most likely, all of the cartridges were loaded the same, just some more "hype" to get money out of the suckers).

Wayne

roscoe
September 24, 2005, 09:06 PM
"Don't touch that, that .357 is loaded for Desert Eagles ONLY!"
Don't touch that ammo - it is so powerful it would melt your hands!!

Gewehr98
September 24, 2005, 09:06 PM
Do you guys have a .357 Magnum Desert Eagle? I do. Our illustrious ammo salesman in the story is actually partially correct, although the DEP has just 2 recoil springs, or 4 if they're the coaxial paired versions. Here's a clue: the loads I run in my Desert Eagle would pound a K-Frame .357 S&W to ribbons in short order, and I doubt an L-Frame would do much better. We won't even think about a J-Frame .357!

My own Desert Eagle 158gr handloads chronograph just over 1600fps. Why? Desert Eagles are finicky about their ammo, particularly the .357 versions, because they're trying to cycle .44 Magnum-sized parts with the smaller case capacity and gas volume of the .357 Magnum round - hence Magnum Research's approved list of .357 Magnum ammo, (download it here (http://www.magnumresearch.com/docs/DEP_Ammo_List.xls)), and why handloaders run their .357 loads on the hot side for the big gas autopistol. It gets even more interesting for owners of Desert Eagle Mark XIX .357 Magnum guns, they have even more slide mass because Magnum Research supersized the entire gun for compatibility with the .50 Action Express cartridge. However, contrary to what our cautious ammo salesman said, those hottest loads would probably be ok in a Ruger Super Blackhawk, Super Redhawk, Dan Wesson, and certainly a Thompson Contender.

Accurate Arms even listed a separate Desert Eagle .357 Magnum load in one of their recent loadbooks. I'd be more than happy to forward the .pdf file upon request. ;)

http://mauser98.com/deserteagle.jpg

Little Wolf
September 24, 2005, 09:39 PM
Ok, so you're telling me that a L frame like a nice 686 would be damaged if firing such loads? What about the S&W 8 shot 627-5? This is a .357 revolver put on an N frame to handle the extra round capacity.

Gewehr98
September 24, 2005, 10:01 PM
Only because I know that my 158gr Desert Eagle loads are pushing 44,900 CUP at 1633fps. That's a goodly amount of "bang", and I don't even have a cylinder gap to contend with.

SAAMI maximum pressure for .357 Magnum is listed as 45,000 CUP, or 35,000 PSI. So statistically, one *should* be safe running those max loads in a medium-frame revolver. I still have my doubts, and would only run my Desert Eagle zingers through a Super Redhawk, Super Blackhawk, or Model 353 Casull.

Little Wolf
September 24, 2005, 10:35 PM
With .357 loads that hot (over 900 ft/lbs) you could go after bears!

How fast can you push a 180 grain projectile out of your DE? Buffalo bore loads theirs to go at around 1400 fps. I'm sure you could get at least 1500 out of the DE.

Gewehr98
September 24, 2005, 10:41 PM
Only because I bought a couple thousand 158gr bullets in bulk. ;)

The Accurate Arms .357 Desert Eagle load data says I can safely push the Hornady 180gr XTP to 1437fps, though. That's with a listed pressure of 43,000 CUP. Good whitetail medicine, I'd wager.

Little Wolf
September 24, 2005, 11:20 PM
In that case you could most likely safely load it up to 1475 fps at least!

Heck, the power you are getting out of your .357s I don't even think can be gotten out of a 10mm, and I thought the two were ballistic twins!

BTW, why the 158s and not the 125s? I heard that the 125 grain jhp .357s produce the highest perentage of one shot stops on MAN (though if you were hunting you'd want the heavier bullet).

Gewehr98
September 24, 2005, 11:33 PM
125 grain bullets never found a way to get along with .357 Desert Eagle pistols. My guess is they just don't generate enough gas volume to cycle all that steel. The lightweight bullet accelerates and is out the muzzle before the pressure curve can do the hard work. Even Magnum Research doesn't list anything lighter than 158 grains.

281 Quad Cam
September 25, 2005, 12:33 AM
Well the desert eagle is gas operated right? Maybe that plays a role in what velocity the bullets need to go for it to still operate... Say it goes too fast and there isnt enough time for gas pressure to build...

Desert Eagles are a mystery to me....... :D

perception
September 28, 2005, 12:36 AM
Buffalo Bore makes a 180 grain .357 round at 1400 fps. I shoot them on occasion out of my 2.5 inch 686. It isn't a bad round at all, and I would bet it is pretty near max pressure. They showed no signs of overpressure, and I would bet the 686 could handle a hotter diet.

Ben Shepherd
October 6, 2005, 06:29 PM
Gewehr98: Where did you get your pressure data?

I'm curious, as I run a load in my 7.5" redhawk that does 1650 with a 158 HCSWC and 2400 powder. I figure my pressure is around the 45,000 mark but can't prove it.

AUG
October 7, 2005, 01:34 AM
I guess I can add this to my list of reasons why I will never own a desert eagle.

Gewehr98
October 10, 2005, 09:16 PM
Are you that heavily invested into cast or swaged bullets?

One doesn't put steel-cased Wolf ammo in their 40X or 700PSS rifles and expect good results.

Likewise, if you don't know what ammunition works properly with your autoloading handgun, then you're right, you probably don't deserve to own one.

Gewehr98
October 10, 2005, 09:19 PM
Ben, my pressure data came from Accurate Arms. I'll wager one could find the SAAMI pressure limits for .357 Magnum without too much digging on the Internet.

I'd get a good look at Alliant's data, or give them a call, to see what pressures you're running with your 158gr/1650fps Redhawk loads. Are those 2400 loads near the top of the 2400 load data, or over the top? (Probably something to think about before calling Alliant)

I'm relatively certain my Desert Eagle loads would work fine in a Super Blackhawk, Super Redhawk, or .353 Casull, no problem.

In the meantime, I will take a look at those Buffalo Bore 180gr screamers. If they fit in the magazine, I may have to get some...

Ben Shepherd
October 13, 2005, 09:26 PM
Gewehr98: Over curent book max-very close to or at older data maximums. (Back when SAMMI max WAS 45,000, before all these alumi-scadi-ti-unobtanium guns showed up).

Just curious is all. I'll call alliant and ask them.

BTW: Your sig line KILLS me every time I read it.

cje1980
October 13, 2005, 09:39 PM
I have actually heard of some IMI ammo that was designated 357Mag +p and it was of the 170gr. variety. I hear that it was designed to cycle the big heavy slide of the DE. I have never shot a DE so I wouldn't know if its true, or if they are unreliable with standard 357Mag ammo.

My own Desert Eagle 158gr handloads chronograph just over 1600fps.

Be carefull, saying that. Some people on this forum don't believe the 357Mag is capable of that kind of power.

Saber
October 14, 2005, 12:22 PM
I shoot my reloads in both my 357 DE and also my Uberti Outlaw. My loads are actually not very hot at all, a little more than minimum specs for H110 (IIRC), nowhere near maximum. The action operates fine, I save a little money on powder & the fireballs are still blinding.:cool:

I think the key is more the 158gr or heavier bullet. I would wager the gun show dealer was pulling your leg. Of course, you'd never know without pulling one and weighing it.