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Servo77
September 6, 2005, 08:25 PM
Anyone have opinons of the black shadow winchester 70's? I am looking at one locally in 30-06. I like it a little better then the regular model 70 for a few reasons. 1) synthetic stock, 2) not as pretty, and since it is a field gun, no worries about banging it up, 3) price point.

What kind of accuracy is to be expected from this rifle? Anyone have any experience with these. Good accuracy or so-so?

AZ Jeff
September 7, 2005, 03:32 PM
It's a Model 70. What more is there to say? They are robust, durable, well made commericial bolt action rifles.

TPAW
September 7, 2005, 04:23 PM
My buddy has one with a 3x9x40 BSA scope on it. At 100 yards he can group 5 shots into a quarter sized group. That's with factory ammo! I was considering buying a Savage or Rem. 700 BDL, but after seeing what the Model 70 did, I'm thinking of getting one myself. ;)

us.armysniper
September 7, 2005, 04:45 PM
I have a winchester model 70 in .270 and it is awesome i have a simmons atec 3 by 9 by 40mm. And like tpaw said you can get 5 in a quarter at 100 yds. no problem. The only thing about the model 70 i wish they would change is to make the trigger easy to adjust, like that of the remington 700 or the savage rifles with the accu-trigger. But with a little work from my gun smith he got my model 70's trigger pull down to 1 1/2 pounds. i love it and i know you will. You can't go wrong.

Zekewolf
September 7, 2005, 04:50 PM
Can't imagine a U.S. Army Sniper recommending a Mod 70 over a 700! :)

us.armysniper
September 7, 2005, 04:59 PM
That was the first rifle I ever owned i got that rifle when i was 12 for my first hunt and still shoot it to this day. Me and that rifle are soul mates. And the 700's we are issued are garbage compared to what you can buy off a dealers shelf. But If i had to choose one rifle over all others it would be the m21 sws.

Servo77
September 7, 2005, 05:19 PM
TPAW, was your friends a black shadow? I know the black shadow is less expensive then other 70's, but any quality of function differences?

Zekewolf
September 7, 2005, 05:24 PM
I thought the Army spent $5000+ on their sniper rifles. How could those rifles be "garbage", compared to an off-the-shelf Remington rifle?

Local deputy sheriff did sniper duty with the Army in Afganistan. You might have seen his and his partner's picture in Stars and Stripes, a coupla years ago? He liked the Remington so much that he's going to buy one privately.

On the other hand, Gunny Hathcock did fairly well with his 70, didn't he? :)

us.armysniper
September 7, 2005, 07:27 PM
The army does spend alot of money on these weapons, but as you know money can't always buy happiness. They are great rifles when the are first issued right out of the box from the remington factory. But all of the stuff that we are issued is hand me down stuff or weapons that have been used pass there aloted amount. Like the heavy barrels of our m24 sws are supposed to be changed every 5,000 rds, yeah right that has way past. It is hard to explain but if you could see the stuff we were actually issued you would understand. The bore in our remington is horrible looking and pitted all to heck. The scopes can't hold a zero because they have been banged each and everyway under the sun.
A brand new Remington 700 pss is what I have for personal use, the weapon system is awesome and i love everything about it. And I would much rather have it if my life depended on it than the army issued one. Next time we go out to a range i will see if i can't get some pictures of it and all it's un glory.

Zekewolf
September 7, 2005, 08:51 PM
I've fired a couple of PSS's. Done some trigger work on a couple, also. I prefer the VS, but there's not much difference in the two, other than the configuration of the stocks and the twist on the .223's.

That's really crappy news about the beat-up rifles. Thanks for the clarification. I thought, from your initial post, that the quality of the rifle was just bad, compared to the commercial PSS's, VS's, etc. Hard to believe that our tax money won't pay for up-to-date equipment for guys in the field.

TPAW
September 7, 2005, 08:54 PM
Servo77

Honestly, I don't know. But I will call him and ask. I will get back to you.

mdhunter
September 7, 2005, 10:18 PM
I have a Win 70, Black Shadow (it wasn't called Stealth 4 years ago when I bought it, so may be slight differences) in .30-06. Gets good groups with factory ammo, including some sub-2 inch groups at 200 yards with my hunting ammo (180 grain Barnes XLC).

Have used it for three Alaska hunts in the past 4 years, have shot caribou at ranges from 150 to 275 yards with no problem. I'm gonna buy another model 70 in .338 Win Mag for bear hunting.

If you're a hunter, it's a great field gun - 3 positon safety, controlled round feed, reliable, etc. You'll love it!

Michael

foxfyre841
September 8, 2005, 10:15 AM
For those of you that have held or own one (of the win 70).. how sloppy is the bolt fitting? does it rattle or wiggle much when drawing back? Thanks
James

AZ Jeff
September 8, 2005, 01:14 PM
For those of you that have held or own one (of the win 70).. how sloppy is the bolt fitting? does it rattle or wiggle much when drawing back?
All bolts will wiggle when fully extended. The key question is how smoothly does it run back in to battery. A binding bolt is annoying and possibly dangerous when hunting dangerous game or when playing on the "two way rifle range".

thesnowpig
September 8, 2005, 05:54 PM
What happened in Sadr city?

us.armysniper
September 8, 2005, 08:22 PM
Thesnowpig,

Well i could give you the long drawn out story of what happend that day, but i will give you the main points. Some of it, some people might not believe it but I can promise you that it did happen , and how i wish It didn't happen. Imagine the following, the main points.

1- 500 of muqtada al-sadr malitia
2- a 6 hour fire fight that neevr stoped.
3- Running out of ammo
4- The 5.56 you are firing won't stop a man for crap.
5- we fired so many rounds that our bolts would not open.
6- one destroyed m1 abrams
7- one destroyed m2 bradly
8 Your best friend shot in the face by an enemy sniper, and bleeding to death in your arms.
9- another one of your buddies shot through the jaw and comming out the back of his neck. Who did live.
10- The thought that you aren't gonna live to see your newborn daughter, and wife.
11-molitove cocktails
12- women calling for fire on you and your teams position.
13- a little boy that tries to kill you but he is too small to hold the weapon up.

Well i guess you get the idea. the main reason i will never forget is because of the death of my main man. Who's name I will not disclose. I am sorry i got on such a rant but once you start it is hard to stop. I appreciate your wanting to know. I want everyone to know that they can ask me anything at anytime and I will be more than happy to answer. But don't ask me about killing anything. Thanks

Servo77
September 8, 2005, 08:33 PM
All I can say is, thank you for doing what you do. Regardless of how anyone feels about Iraq or what not, its people like you that give us the freedom to get on this message board and talk about guns ans stuff.

Again, thank you

TPAW
September 9, 2005, 01:23 AM
US.ARMYSNIPER

From one who literally felt the sting of battle as an infantryman in Vietnam,
I appluad your service and salute you. Welcome home. You are among the brotherhood of many who knows the realities of war. For those who don't, aren't they lucky.........

kcoop9999
September 9, 2005, 03:40 AM
:) I collect and shoot just about anything my budget allows. I'm up to 60+ and counting, inculing handguns and shotguns. I currently have 3 Winchesters. #1: 1897 .16 Gauge- 1921 MFG
#2: M-70 .264 Win Mag- 1965 Mfg
#3: M-70 .223 WSSM Black Shadow

Even with that stubby little cartridge and pencil thin barrel my BS keeps up with my .222's in accuracy and functions like a Swiss watch. I personely think the most over-priced firearms in America are the Pre-64 M-70's. Think my next new rifle will probably be another Winchester, most likely a M-94 in .25-35. They wouldn't put that name on it if it wer'nt damned near perfect. :D

thesnowpig
September 13, 2005, 01:35 AM
US Armysniper

Sounds like Hell. Where I live I don’t get TV reception and we haven’t bothered to get a Dish. I get my news from the radio driving to and from work, so I’m not much up on all the names of the cities and the battles. I recognized Sadr city from some correspondence with a brother in law. Thanks for the reply.

thesnowpig

us.armysniper
September 13, 2005, 07:51 AM
Hey don't worry about watching the news they don't depict what is really going on any way. They pick out the worst of every thing and throw it in the face of the american public.

Charles S
September 13, 2005, 11:44 AM
US Armysniper,

I commend you for your service.

I have the newer Winchester Super Shadow and I have been very impressed. This has been an excellent rifle with nothing more than a trigger job and having the crown re-cut.

Charles

us.armysniper
September 13, 2005, 02:29 PM
I think my next bolt gun will be another winchester model 70 but i am torn on caliber but i am leaning heavy towards the .30-06

exoduster16
September 19, 2005, 06:10 PM
I'm knew to posting here but I usually just read the posts. I just spent an hour trying to find this story. This is really sad. u.s.armysniper, I'm really sorry about your friend and the rest of your squad. Running out of ammo sucks. I guess the only question I have to ask is when you said the women were directing fire in your direction, do your ROE's allow you to engage them as enemy combatants? Thanks again for just doing your job and keeping us safe.

us.armysniper
September 19, 2005, 06:59 PM
Well during the first few months of the deployment our roe's were really lenient, we pretty much had free rain. There at the end it started getting really ridiculous and dumb real fast. There are two different reasons that we would engage, that is if the person or persons were commiting a hostile act like for example inplacing an Ied, shooting at us, civilians, and other security forces. And then you have hostile acts for example you have a check point set up and the car you tell to halt keeps moving at you at a high rate of speed. They might be innocent but in split second moments like that it is better him than you and your buddies. Now in sadr-city we were allowed to fire on the women, they are as much of a threat as the men and the young kids for that matter. but they were commiting a hostile act by directing fire on our position. and she had hostile intent by wanting us dead, so we had all the permission we needed as far as the roe's went and even if we wouldn't been able too it would have happened. Everyone has different inturpritations of them and that is mine, which I guess i did all right cause i didn't go to jail!

exoduster16
September 21, 2005, 08:23 PM
hey, u.s.armysniper, thanks for the reply. I just didn't know if the politicians sitting behind desks here were setting really restrictive ROE's or if they gave you guys the slack to do your jobs the proper way. Anyways, thanks again for your service to our country and sticking with it.

Jack O'Conner
September 23, 2005, 05:40 PM
I guided for a "wheel" from the Pentagon in 2003. He had a new Winchester 70 Black Shadow in .270 with a plain but serviceable scope. We hunted a 10 square mile ranch in western Corson County. At approximately 125 yards he dropped a nice 3X3 muley with just one shot through the ribs. I'm not a big fan of bolt action rifles but seemed a like a keeper to me!
Jack

Gunrunner54
July 13, 2010, 05:46 PM
Just so you really will know--the Army maintains ALL sniper systems issues to its troops in top notch shape. They are checked and ANY parts forund to be out of spec are replaced. Barrels are gauged and checked with great detail. Someone to have claimed to be an Army SNIPER should know better than to say otherwise. The armorers of the Ordinance units treat them like premadonna! So either you speak of a subject whicj you know nothing about and are just another "WAnna BE" that has never been a real Military Sniper or you are just trying to make your self look big! Either way you dont have a Darn CLUE as to what you are talking about.:D

crghss
July 13, 2010, 06:05 PM
Hey Gunner, thread is over 5 years old.

Fat White Boy
July 13, 2010, 08:47 PM
I have a Win Model 70 in .270 which I bought on sale at Walmart. I have shot dime sized groups with stock, off the shelf at Walmart CoreLokt 130gr ammo. I have taken 4 hogs up to two hundred pounds. Glass is a Nikon 3-9X40 Buckmaster. My go to hunting rifle...

gak
July 13, 2010, 11:37 PM
I have a 12-15(+?) year old Wal Mart or K Mart (I imagine; I got it used but like new at a pawn shop) Model 70 .270 along these lines. It too came complete with "plain but serviceable" small recticle 3x9 Simmons scope. Like I imagine a number of posters here, it has a satin/matte black treatment to the metal and the fore-stock checkering etched into the synthetic, with the famous script "W." It may have not been an expensive gun--I remember paying an appropriate $270 OTD--but it's exactly as described, the perfect field gun you never have to worry about , and it's a tack driver. I've just been lazy doing anything about the scope, but it's easily upgradable. And, I wish it had a floorplate, but "it is what it is" and with such features it wouldn't have been available as the bargain it was.

Dougw47
July 14, 2010, 08:54 AM
Saw one at Wallyworld in 199o's, looked like the perfect all-weather hunting rifle. Debated over a month, whether to get the .30-06 or the .270. I had not had a .270 since back in the '80's and had given up on my .243 win.

Lots of deer (10), hogs and 2 coyotes later...I love my Black Shadow .270. (Note: it's not my only rifle) (but it sure is a good one)

I did pay $35 to have the trigger fixed, and I tossed the POS Simmons scope, that broke a reticule after 3 rds. Leupold 3x9 fixed that.

For a practically bullet-proof hunting rifle, better than MOA accuracy, and ammo available everywhere...I'd say go for it! I gave $407 for the rifle and $250 for a used Leupold...I have spent a lot more and got worse. No regrets!