Home invasions on the rise...what to do ??

[Tylden]

I was in my friendly neighborhood gun shop today buying my son's birthday present and shooting the breeze with some of the people there. The salesman I was working with has a son that is a police officer, and he was telling me that home invasions were becoming more and more of a problem for the citizens of Louisville. It seems as though the people doing this have a five or six man team, all wearing masks and in military garb. They ambush homeowners as they are entering or leaving their homes, hold them hostage inside the house, and burglarize their homes. Only one person of the team talks, some stay outside, and the others tend to the homeowner(s) and rob the place. They are all armed (not sure with what), and have a very well thought out plan to execute their crimes. But, due to the nature of what they steal and what they leave behind, they are believed to be amateur thieves, yet they seem to operate in a military fashion. What would you do in a situation like this ?? Keep in mind they take their victims by surprise....so there is NO time to run to the gunsafe or where ever you keep your firearms. By the way, they haven't killed any of their victims, but I'm sure as it is happening the homeowners do not know this. There has been absolutely NOTHING on the news about any of this, at least not yet. So....how would you react if you were their next victim ?

[BatmanX]

It isn't how I would REACT, it would be how I PREPARE.

I assume they would have to be parked close, so you would notice a car that is not right. I have driven past my house a few times because something didn't feel correct.

You can have security and also have your yard/house organized so that it will not be as easy for these things to happen. I would assume if the police were to put a profile on the houses that were terrorized by these people, they could come up with a list of things to look for.

Be prepared. When it happens, it is too late - but it can probably be prevented.

[BerettaCougar]

I leave my house at 5am for work... and its sometimes dark.. I leave my house with pistol in hand..ready to fire

[Bo Hunter]

Wow - Beretta, I thought you had to see a gun or knife present to even draw your weapon. Now you are waving it around as you leave the house?

Actually what he did was illegal in my opinion, firearms are only sopposed to be pulled when your life is in extreme danger...when you know for a fact that if you dont pull the weapon you would die or be hurt..

[BerettaCougar]

On my way out to my car, I have it in my hand, but I also leave at night, I'm not drawing on anyone, I'm on my own property!!!

I can do this LEGALLY!

[sendec]

Just some points to ponder - the odds of you needing to fire your pistol are far, far lower than the odds of you stumbling and driving the muzzle into the ground, or worse yet startle and have an ND, or getting into a confrontation in which lethal force is not justified.

Sometimes knowing when to put it away is as important as knowing when to draw it.

[blackmind]

We should leave all our self-protection duties to the police to handle for us, right, sendec? :rolleyes:


Why must you attempt to make it sound like the guy is an incompetent stumble*#&( ? Your comments sound ridiculous. You make it sound like he's walking around with his finger on the trigger (to have an ND), and is that a fair assumption for you to make? If HE is likely to fall and drive the muzzle into the ground on his own property in the dark, why would a cop who is unfamiliar with the place fare any better?

Oh, I forgot:

they're EXPERTS.


-blackmind

[steve154]

beretta,

When I worked 7:00pm to 3:00am I always had a gun in my hand for my walk to the door and into my house. A little paranoid? Maybe, but I don't like things to surprise me in the middle of the night. I see absolutley nothing wrong with you discreetly carrying your gun in hand to your car when it's dark and you are on your own property.

[blackmind]

Same here. If you're on your property, you're within your rights. Would it be better to have to fumble under your shirt or wherever you have your CCW, giving the edge to the guy who jumps out from behind the bushes with a crowbar or knife?


I don't know where sendec comes off with his comments, attempting to make you sound like a complete boob, cougar. I think it's "cop-elitism," trying to make it seem like cops are the only ones capable of using firearms for defense. Makes them feel needed, I guess.

Well, they are needed: most of us don't have the coroner's number on speed-dial.

-blackmind

[stardate]

Beretta if it makes others feel better, you could always place a plastic bag over your gun and hand. A gun double bagged in a walmart bag should conceal it nicely.

[Limeyfellow]

Amazing how the guy trying to sell you self defense guns at the gunshop is telling you information about the need to have lots of guns because everyone is getting home invaded. Its not really that common and sure its nice to be prepared but many of these gunstore owners make their profits so they will tell you about everything to make a sale.

[sendec]

Blackmind, they were called points to ponder, for just that reason. If he feels the need to cammy up and barrel roll across the lawn on his way to the minivan thats his perogative. I'm just the guy who has to clean up the mess.

And if fumbling your draw is a problem, practice correct technique, dont compensate by wandering around with your **** in your hand :rolleyes:

[CarbineCaleb]

If 5 or 6 guys with guns had the drop on me, I'd try to avoid getting shot! If you already know they're going to kill you, then you could still go for them at best tactical moment (or flee at best tactical moment)... but I think your chances against 5 or 6 armed men would be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small, so there is no way I'd initiate a gunfight if I thought I could avoid it. Life is not a movie, and I am not Clint Eastwood. :p

P.S. As Limeyfellow noted, the gunshop salesman would have something to gain from your thinking that you needed plenty of new guns, so I would take the salesman's concern with a grain of salt too ;)

[Jkwas]

Someone was banging on my front door at 9:30pm. I don't get many unexpected visitors. I asked who it was, it was an old lady looking for an address. I helped her out. But afterwards, I started thinking about what if it was a troublemaker. We have had an increase in home invasions in our county with 3 in the last few weeks. After talking to my wife about it, I'm not going to answer a door without a gun in my hand in a similar situation again. Call me paranoid, but all it takes is one time.
Carrying a gun outside your house in the dark? Going to the car in the dark?
I've got paddle holsters coming for both my guns so I can slide something on when I have to go out or answer the door. It's cheap insurance. One of the home invasions, the victim had a gun, but couldn't get to it. That's no good. :eek:

[Trip20]

If he feels the need to cammy up and barrel roll across the lawn on his way to the minivan that’s his prerogative.

Whether I agree with your opinion or not.... that, my friend, gave me a good belly laugh. I couldn't help but picture some boob like Chevy Chase in "Fletch" or something similar.

I'm just the guy who has to clean up the mess.
This, on the other hand, sounds like your the principal at school and your sick of all the "kiddies" spilling their milk in the cafeteria. Give us a little more credit than that.

And if you really think about it, the comment "I'm just the guy who has to clean up the mess." is really the reason why people are barrel-rolling to the minivan... Your not there 'til it's time to clean up. It's not your fault, but it is fact.


:D lol I can't stop laughin' about the barrel roll, lawn, and minivan.

[Wraith]

Well I guess it's lucky that I take my SKS in with me every night. ;)

[ATW525]

I live in a secure building, so when people knock directly on my door I definitely get suspicious. People I know call me on my phone from the back door and wait for me to let them in. People I don't know should be using the buzzer at the front door.

I've only had people knock directly on my door unexpectedly twice, and luckily both times it turned out to people trying to sell newspaper or magazines subscriptions or some crap.

[USP45usp]

I don't know, I always look out the window before I leave the house :confused: . I know my neighborhood, the different dog barks of my uncles and neighbors dogs, and when it's dark outside I have a motion detection light that is right up against the road (so the cars don't set it off but anyone that go by driveway will).

If I knew of this happening I would look out all my windows before leaving.

Wayne

[The Rabbi]

If 5 or 6 guys with guns had the drop on me, I'd try to avoid getting shot! If you already know they're going to kill you, then you could still go for them at best tactical moment (or flee at best tactical moment)... but I think your chances against 5 or 6 armed men would be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small, so there is no way I'd initiate a gunfight if I thought I could avoid it.
Five or 6 six guys (or one or two for that matter) with guns who have them drawn and pointed at you means you are SOL. Some appropriate words to your respective deity would be in order then, not quick draws.

[JohnKSa]

Five or 6 six guys (or one or two for that matter) with guns who have them drawn and pointed at you means you are SOL.Ain't no way more than one guy at a time is coming in any of my doors OR running down any of the bookshelf-lined halls in my house. Bottlenecks are a wonderful thing! ;)

[The Rabbi]

You tell 'em! I know you're gonna draw your trusty 1911 and drill 'em as they come through the door. Them suckers never have a chance. :rolleyes:

[Topthis]

5 or 6 guys dressed in Military Garb, hiding outside of peoples homes to ambush them??? Now I do know that home invasions happen, but I am wondering where these 5 to 6 guys in Military Garb are hiding? Most of the invasions I have heard about are 1 to 3 guys that come to knock on the door of the householder and then force their way into the home. 5 to 6 guys in Military Garb running up towards the householder would be suspicious to the neighbors...no?? Nothing on the News?? I know that reporters monitor police radio and I am not sure that if these attacks were becomming common, just the word of mouth would get it around the whole State in a matter of a few days...I think the gunshop owner was pulling your leg.
I guess though, for the sake of the thread...if it were me, I would drive by my home 2 or 3 times and fire .45 rounds into every bush, tree, dark corner and anyone looking suspicious, then I would lob a few hand grenades at my front door, just in case someone was behind the planter. Then I would crank the car stereo and blast "Let the Bodies Hit the Floor" and jump outta my car with a gun in each hand, all the while screaming..."c'mon...get some, get some!!!"...whew...sorry folks...waaayyyy too much coffee today.

[Tylden]

The gentleman at the gun shop wasn't "pulling my leg" nor is he trying to sell me another home defense weapon as someone else mentioned. In fact, the folks there that I have talked to all agree that I am well equipped for home defense, at least as far as firearms go. I've been going there for awhile and know most of them well enough to trust them. In many communities, I can see where this wouldn't be that difficult to pull off , even with 5 or 6 people in military style garb...especially in a subdivision such as mine. Frankly, it is rare that a residential burglary is broadcast on the news and the papers usually just have a very brief nondescript listing of a few selected crimes....at least in our area. I don't know how many houses they have hit so far, I don't know if they had their weapons drawn and pointed at you or not...but I have no reason to think this man is not telling the truth. It really doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not. I have family in the city limits of Louisville, and I live just outside of Louisville and this situation concerns me. I was hoping to find some good practical advice and suggestions here, and I thank those that took the time to give a serious answer.

[JohnKSa]

You tell 'em! I know you're gonna draw your trusty 1911 and drill 'em as they come through the door. Them suckers never have a chance. I don't own a 1911. And I may not "drill 'em" all as they come through the door, but I'm surely gonna try my best. They'll have a pretty good chance, but that doesn't mean I DON'T have a chance and it certainly doesn't mean that I'm going to simply stand there and pray.

There are things I'm afraid of but dying isn't one of them. Letting criminals take control of my house and everything and everyone in it IS one thing I'm afraid of, and as long as I'm alive I'll do absolutely everything in my power to prevent it. Whether my chances of succeeding are really great or really lousy.

[blackmind]

I live in a secure building, so when people knock directly on my door I definitely get suspicious. People I know call me on my phone from the back door and wait for me to let them in. People I don't know should be using the buzzer at the front door.

I've only had people knock directly on my door unexpectedly twice, and luckily both times it turned out to people trying to sell newspaper or magazines subscriptions or some crap.


All it takes for a "secure building" to be insecure (and potentially deadly) is a person propping a door for whatever reason.

I would never count on a building being "secure." That's a fallacy just waiting to cause someone to let down their guard and get harmed.

-blackmind

[Wraith]

I don't own a 1911. And I may not "drill 'em" all as they come through the door, but I'm surely gonna try my best. They'll have a pretty good chance, but that doesn't mean I DON'T have a chance and it certainly doesn't mean that I'm going to simply stand there and pray.

There are things I'm afraid of but dying isn't one of them. Letting criminals take control of my house and everything and everyone in it IS one thing I'm afraid of, and as long as I'm alive I'll do absolutely everything in my power to prevent it. Whether my chances of succeeding are really great or really lousy.

You are what many would call a man.

+1

[blackmind]

In Vermont, they just sentenced a guy to death for murdering a woman. I recall distinctly from the articles that he killed her as she knelt there praying for her life.

No fighting.

Just praying.

No wonder she died. She didn't give herself 1/100th of a chance by taking zero action to fight her attacker.

-blackmind

[XavierBreath]

I have to agree with John here. The reason these thugs are succeeding is they are going against homeowners who are in condition white and who have no plan, no training, and probably no firearms.

If I am unable to draw my "trusty" 1911 because all six thugs have "the drop" on me, then I suppose my wife will get to choose which one to drop like boiled cabbage first. Two armed, trained and prepared people on their own turf are more than a match for six thugs who were expecting a relatively easy robbery. Once the first one or two are dead, there is a very good chance that the other four will no longer want to stay for the party.

Nobody will invade my home and brutalize my family without a fight. You may choose to pray to your deity. I choose to fight. We may both die as a result. In this case I trust my gun more than my prayers. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

Practical advice:
Get a CCW permit if you can, and carry a gun 24/7.
If you are married, your spouse should do the same.
If you have children, they should either know how to shoot*, or have a good prearranged hiding place they have been taught to retreat to. It might be advisable to have them get out a window and retreat to the neighbor's home and raise the alarm.
Have a loaded 12 gauge at either end of your home, hidden but accessible near cover. Fight your way to your closest 12 gauge.
Never give up, even if you are shot. If you give up, you will die, and your family will as well. You must stake your survival on your abilities, not your attacker's generosity.
If you feel the need to pray, then pray while you fight for your life. Do not expect pity from your attackers, and do not give them any. Do not talk, do not negotiate. They invaded your home, placing you in imminent danger. Stop the threat to your life.

*I have heard one instance where a 6 year old boy prevented his father's murder by shooting his father's attacker in the head with a single shot .22 rifle.

[Trip20]

*I have heard one instance where a 6 year old boy prevented his father's murder by shooting his father's attacker in the head with a single shot .22 rifle.

I've heard the same story. The kid had the element of suprise.

[claude783]

Anyone can be taken unaware. It is impossible to be 100% paranoid all of the time. You have company over, there is a knock at the door and you don't think, but just answer, or perhaps family or friends forget to lock the security door.

For myself, if I come home and am greeted, I have a monitered alarm system. I have to punch in the code, but there is a "special" code which shuts down the alarm, but informs the security company that this system is being deactivated under threat...

Now, consider getting a gun and having a running gun battle with 5-6 armed indivuals.

Perhaps they are wearing vests, which mean that all of your shots will have to be "head" shots. This while engaging 5 armed men...are you sure your that "good".

What about family members, or neighbors who might become the innocent victims of gun play...Your best bet is to try and "play" along because your not really going to have a heck of a lot of choice. Once they have penetrated your "layers" of security, your pretty well defensless. I know, your still thinking that you can grab that AK sitting behind the couch and show them a thing or two, but again, your up against a group which has planned for your take down.

Now, you have to ask yourself, what is it about you, your house, your family, your job, which has brought you to this groups attention. Is there some kind of pattern there. The area you live, are you a bank president, do you carry, or have a job which involves lots of cash...what are they stealing, antiques, cash, guns, jewerly, if so how do they select their victims...

No, sooner or later, one of these guys will make a mistake. They will "brag" about their exploits, begin showing conspicous consumption, get drunk and beleive they are king of the hill.

In the mean time the police can only be reactive. I suppose they don't want to alarm the city can create mass panic.

I know of one case, where a silent alarm was triggered, the police put the buglars under surveillance, followed them, watched "who" they went to with their stolen loot, who they partied with, did an intelligent gathering mission...probably the same thing is going on here...sooner or later one of this group is going to screw up..then they will fall!

[big daddy 9mm]

perhaps go out the back door armed, and if you go out he front door you might get into a shoot out. tha is a bad spot to be in. video cam?? :D :D



hey batman X, I notice that you have a 22 marlin rifle. I have the same model as you. would you agree that those things are an awesome gun! I have about 10 thousand rounds though mine and it is just fine! :) :)

[Doug.38PR]

Frequently when I get home after dark I draw my.38 ready for action when I get out of the truck and unlock the back door. If I know nobody else is home, I go into the house with teh gun still drawn ready for unexpected guests.
Granted I probably wouldn't be able to outgun 5 or 6 armed men, BUT if they are watching me from the distance, THEY will see that I am armed. With that in mind, they might think twice because NOBODY wants to get shot. Yes they have the odds of getting me on their side, but I have good odds of getting one or two maybe even three of them. Who is going to take the three shots and who is going to kill me? Also, if the do move on me, I may get one and the others after hearing the first shot may act on instinct and scatter. Criminals I think are generally cowards. Anyway, I've got a far better chance with the gun than without. Without the gun they will DEFINATELY make their move.

[Dwight55]

Thank you Xavier: "Nobody will invade my home and brutalize my family without a fight. You may choose to pray to your deity. I choose to fight. We may both die as a result. In this case I trust my gun more than my prayers. The Lord helps those who help themselves."

As a pastor, I full well know and enjoy the benefits of prayer, . . . but there are times when one must act first and pray later or act and pray at the same time. A home invasion scenario is one where I would be acting as I was praying, . . . and it may just be something like "Lord, . . . please make these shots count".

As for walking to/from the van/truck/car with gun in hand, . . . if you don't want to see that, . . . stay away from my place. As often as not, . . . my 1911 is in my hand as I go out the door, . . . and especially if it is dark, . . . it is in my hand when I come in the door. It is private property, . . . it is legal, . . . and it is a whole world faster to use than if it is secured in a holster.

Paranoid? Not in this lifetime, . . . just prepared, . . . and willing to do what it takes to protect my family. God chose me as the head of my household (as He did every other husband/male) and bestowed upon me the responsibility to take care of that duty, . . . He also provided the 1911 and its long gun couterparts to accomplish that mission.

May Gpd bless,
Dwight

[sendec]

For you gun-in-hand types, do you think it would be OK for a cop to have his or her gun drawn on every vehicle stop, every field interview? Or do you think they should be transferred to the Supersoaker Squad and have a mandatory chat with the agency shrink?

I dont know where you guys live, but the only town I can think of where i'd need a gun in my hand to walk to the car is called Baghdad.

[JohnKSa]

Your best bet is to try and "play" along because your not really going to have a heck of a lot of choice.That's a statement you can make because you haven't considered what the possibilities of "playing along" might include.

If you resist, a "running gun battle" is likely to give someone time to phone for help, or even alert the neighbors. And even if only one attacker is wounded, the priorities of the attacking group might change enough to get you off the hook.

If you just give up, they now fully control the situation. They can effectively silence everyone and then do as they please. And what they please may have absolutely nothing to do with robbery and everything to do with the reasons that "playing along" could be something you and your family regret for the rest of your lives.

IMO, not resisting a home invasion is like getting in the car with a carjacker. The police advocate running from a carjacker even if it means being shot. They point out that once you get into the car, the carjacker can take you to a remote location where your chances of escape are much smaller and your chances of getting help are slim. If you force the situation by running you may attract the attention of others, and even if he shoots, your survival chances are better than if he picks the place to dispose of you.

Likewise in a home invasion, resistance improves the chances that the home invasion will be noticed, and may give other occupants time to prepare to resist more effectively, escape or call for help. Once the attackers have control, you are at their mercy. From what I've seen, the mercy of criminals is not something I want to rely on.

I haven't seen statistics specifically for home invasions but in general, resisting violent crime with a firearm gives you a better chance of escaping unharmed than "playing along."

[Dwight55]

Yes, Sendec, . . . you are correct: "I dont know where you guys live, . . ."

Well, I don't know where you live either, . . . but I'll leave the judgment to you as to whether or not you carry in pocket, in holster, in hand, . . . or not at all.

Please don't do the rest of us any favors and generalize your own personal opinion as the correct stance in all scenarios.

Though I live in one of the most populous states, . . . I also live in a tri-county corner. Depending on which sherrif I call, . . . I have a 2 out of 3 chance of being wrong, . . . it all depends on which way the perp runs. In addition, . . . calling my county sherriff is a guaranteed 30 minute wait even if they are in the squad car in the station drive way.

As I said earlier tonight, . . . it's my property, it's legal, and it is far better to be prepared than to have to say later, . . . "If only I had, . . . . . . . ."

May God bless,
Dwight

[XavierBreath]

For you gun-in-hand types, do you think it would be OK for a cop to have his or her gun drawn on every vehicle stop, every field interview? No, it would not be OK for a LEO to do that. I don't think it would be OK for me to go into the Stop& Save to buy a soda with a gun in my hand either. Nor would it be OK for me to walk into one of my patient's rooms with a gun in my hand.

However, I fail to see the problem with a man going through his own front door, walking across his own lawn, and getting in his own car with a gun in his hand, assuming he can legally own a gun.

[FamDfndr]

Two brothers used to be members of the gun club that I was trained and every Saturday and Wednesday they were there practicing, they were always first and second at the tornaments and were pretty much gun enthusiasts. They both were good at speed draw and firing. The eldest carried two .40 Glocks and he had several encounters with attempted armed robberies there was one in particular where he accompanied one of his trucks to pick up supplies for his stores and on the way back three armed men attempted to highjack the truck for the supplies two on one side of the truck and one on the other he shot two of them fatally and one ran away sporting atleast a round in his upper torso. One day he was taking his little boy home from school and the little boy opened the door of the vehicle and was about to go to the door when three men pounced on them and shot the father fatally, the little boy was left to grieve as they releaved him of his two pistols. You can never be too prepared. Nothing wrong with prayer especially when you really believe that God Truly is your protector. That's if you believe. I do and have lived through several dangerous situations throughout the years unarmed. Not saying that nothing bad can happen to me, but I believe that God watches over me and my family and He has, so even as I wait to be armed I have not yielded any of my faith in who really has my back.

[packa45]

All it takes for a "secure building" to be insecure (and potentially deadly) is a person propping a door for whatever reason

good point, I live in a "secure building" but at least twice a week either the front or back door is proped open with something. With that in mind and the fact that my roommate likes to leave the front door unlocked I keep my AK close and my .45 closer at all times.

[chadwimc]

Here in Cincinnati, *ALL* of the home invasion robberies have involved drugs. The occupants had been selling, had just purchased, or were flashing money around thugs and dope dealers. If you run with dogs, you're gonna pick up fleas...

[Hardtarget]

Here it is 4:40 Sat. afternoon. I'm reading about home invasions and two guys knock on the door...and I don't have my gun on me. I always have my gun right with me, but, I'd been to visit a friend, home after surgery, and didn't put it on when I got home.At least I could see these guys (window view of porch) before going to the door. Any way...they left...I went to get my pistol. Just shows how easy it is to get caught with your guard down.
I have to say if I'd seen 5 or 6 guys dressed in black I'd been going for a weapon quickly!
Mark.

[powderedonuts]

I have to say if I'd seen 5 or 6 guys dressed in black I'd been going for a weapon quickly!
Mark.

Wouldnt it be great if those guyses happened to be ATF or something and asked to come in? I would be scared.

Anyways...

I think you are all much too lax on your security. Not only do I have my G19 on my person AT ALL TIMES other then showering (and even then it is only seconds from me), I keep a rifle in my room ready to go. Whenever I go out to get something from my car I carry my AK. When I answer doors I always have my glock out of holster and in hand, standing to the SIDE of the door. Never know who is going to shoot you from the peep-hole. People who are allowed to visit me have been told a password for when I ask who it is. I change this weekly.

I always leave a small ball of masking tape under the edge of my door when I leave. If the door is opened the ball will catch on the front mat. This is a clue to entry through the front door when coming home. All the windows are locked (looking for a good way to bolster these).

When sleeping my glock is in holster on my bed which I can grab in seconds. Motion lights cover all areas around my house. I keep my ak leaning against the bed in case I need more firepower.

Outside the house I keep my pistol concealed, but will take it out when entering public restrooms in stores and hold it hidden in a pocket. Never know what could happen, you might see a theif ripping packaging of something he is stealing. He might then panic and try to attack me, something I would be ready for. Not to mention lots of people get attacked in restrooms for their wallets since there are no cameras.

My tip to everyone is carry a gun always, the one time you limit your access to it is the one time that it may have saved your life.

[3 weelin geezer]

Rolling on the floor all cammied up---ROFL!!!!
Thats me! I'm in the service.

That makes me think of not chevy chase but of that guy 'Spartakus' from that kid show...um....Lazy town. The Frenchie fool that doesnt walk but flips and rolls and jumps all over the place. I wish someone would eat bananas in that show. I still am crying just thinking of doing this and making that keystone cop sound: HUP! HUP! HUP! HUP! BAH HA HA HA HA HA!!!! <SNIFF> wait, I forgot my black foil hat with the saran wrap face shield. There. I am now ready for war! I have seen thieves opening packages and I just stand there looking all important like and they just look away like I am not there and leave the stuff behind but come back moments later and I follow them. Of course they find the thing gone and me asking them if they are gonna buy it or what? They leave. Yeah, I didn't see you hiding there behind that toilet paper roll bud carefully undoing the packing and box. Ya figger thats the least important thing. Its like they don't notice they are making a bunch of noise anyways.

[sendec]

Maybe we should have our manservants ambush us when we walk thru the door, just for practice, like Peter Sellers and Cato in the "Pink Panther" movies.

If only I could find some Level 3A jammies. You guys do wear armor all the time, right? Never know when you might need it.

[JohnKSa]

Maybe you should do a little research on the things that have happened to the people in a house that was targeted for a home invasion. There's nothing even slightly humorous about a real home invasion.

I don't understand why people who don't want to prepare for catastrophe think that ridiculing those who do prepare is an effective technique. Are you trying to change my mind by making fun of me? Or are you just trying to distract yourself from the possible consequences of your lack of preparation by making jokes.

[The Rabbi]

I don't understand why people who don't want to prepare for catastrophe think that ridiculing those who do prepare is an effective technique. Are you trying to change my mind by making fun of me? Or are you just trying to distract yourself from the possible consequences of your lack of preparation by making jokes.

By virtue of being here every one of us has prepared in some way or another. Where we differ is in how effective we think preparations will be against overwhelming odds, and how much time and effort (and money) we will spend on preparing for events that are statistically unlikely to happen.
The image of the couple war-gaming at night in their living room in full camo is too funny for words. And anyone who takes that seriously has been spending too much time on the high road.

[JohnKSa]

Where we differ is in how effective we think preparations will be against overwhelming odds, and how much time and effort (and money) we will spend on preparing for events that are statistically unlikely to happen.I don't prepare because I think my preparations will be hugely effective--I prepare because I can't tolerate the possible consequences of not preparing. I don't plan to resist because I feel sure of winning but because I can't afford to give up without trying.

The second part of your statement is not really debatable--everybody decides what they are willing to prepare for and what they aren't. No problem there. And these events ARE very unlikely. However, carrying a firearm or even owning a self-defense firearm is also preparing for an unlikely event.

More to the point, not wanting to (or not being willing to) prepare doesn't give one carte blanche to ridicule those who do.The image of the couple war-gaming at night in their living room in full camo is too funny for words. And anyone who takes that seriously has been spending too much time on the high road.The issue isn't whether it's funny or not, the issue is whether it's meant to be funny, or meant as ridicule. Funny is great, ridicule isn't--which gets me back to my former post.

[The Rabbi]

The second part of your statement is not really debatable--everybody decides what they are willing to prepare for and what they aren't. No problem there. And these events ARE very unlikely. However, carrying a firearm or even owning a self-defense firearm is also preparing for an unlikely event.

Carrying a spare tire is also preparing for an unlikely event. But we all do it. But not too many of us carry a spare carbuerator or fuel injector system. Where do you draw the line between preparing and over-doing it? I dont know. The answer wil vary for different people. But there is definitely a point where it goes beyong preparing and into farce. And most of us know it when we see it.

[progunner1957]

"Nobody will invade my home and brutalize my family without a fight. You may choose to pray to your deity. I choose to fight. We may both die as a result. In this case I trust my gun more than my prayers. The Lord helps those who help themselves."

AMEN!!!

As English author H.L. Menken said in reference to World War II:
"There are several things worse than war; they all come with losing."

IMHO, there are several things worse than death, and they all come with throwing yourself on the "mercy" of a coldblooded thug and his buddies who have targeted you and/or your family.

Kill the b@st@rds first, plain and simple.

[XavierBreath]

How many of us check to find the fire exits in a hotel after we have checked into our room and are dead tired from the trip?

FWIW, I once had a '67 Chevy pickup, and I did carry a spare carburetor, among other parts, and a few tools. I was glad I did. Swapping out a carburetor is a heck of a lot easier than installing a carb kit, or walking ten or twenty miles. In my Land Rover (SIIA) I carry two spare axles, a long and a short one among other parts. A axle swap is a 5 minute job. A walk usually takes longer.

[JohnKSa]

Where do you draw the line between preparing and over-doing it? I dont know. The answer wil vary for different people. But there is definitely a point where it goes beyong preparing and into farce. And most of us know it when we see it.Everyone draws the line in a different place. That's fine. What I'm objecting to is the attitude of "my line is right and your line is farcical and worthy of ridicule."

Ironic that on these boards we read about home invasions and other crimes and often bemoan the occupants' lack of preparation but can still find it logical to ridicule those who actually make an effort to prepare. It has always been and will always be so.

XB,

I always try to check fire exit plans, but I'll admit to not being 100% in that regard. ;)

[sendec]

What bothers me is that people seldom bother to realistically assess the level of threat they face and more importantly view the gun as some kind of talisman that bestows protection. Having a gun in your hand doesnt make a person "safe", any more than possession of a stethoscope makes them a doctor.

A review of the Uniform Crime Reports will also review a couple things:

Violent crime is at its lowest point since the early 70s

Stranger-on-stranger violent crime involving middle age males is incredibly rare.

Preparation is fine, paranoia is not, especially when it leads to actions which are tactically unsound and borderline reckless. One poster goes to his car, gun in hand, at 5:30 AM. Listen to scanner traffic at that time of day, the silence is deafening, the only people out are cops and papermen. Another complains about long response times, indicating that he lives in the country. I though people moved to the country to get away from crime - rural violence among strangers is infinitesimal. Over the past 5 years there have been maybe 6 home invasions in the rural county in which I live, all of them were solved, and in most the offender knew the victim or lived nearby.

Again preparation is fine, but like anything else it can be overdone. I am armed 24/7, but my gun stays in its rig unless I at least have a potential target. I also get my booster shots when needed, but I'm not gonna live life in a bubble suit cause I might get a germ.

[powderedonuts]

Germs arent going to kill me Sendec (yet). Neither is a broken carbuerator. Thats why I dont worry about those untill the need arises. Maybe you shouldnt look at it based on chance or on probabillity of something happening. But rather on the CONSEQUENCES of something IF it does happen, however unlikely it may be.

We choose to carry a gun for those unlikely situations that put our lives in peril. Not preperations for something that is merely a slight inconvienience.

[The Rabbi]

Germs arent going to kill me Sendec (yet). Neither is a broken carbuerator. Thats why I dont worry about those untill the need arises. Maybe you shouldnt look at it based on chance or on probabillity of something happening. But rather on the CONSEQUENCES of something IF it does happen, however unlikely it may be

Unfortunately people dont do that.
Most of the people in the gun world are far more likely to die of heart attacks, cancer and strokes than bullets. Yet they persist in smoking, eating unhealthful diets and being overweight. What are the consequences of a stroke? Pretty devastating. What is the likelihood of one occuring? Pretty high. But people would rather pound their manly chests and spout off about how they're gonna go down shooting and how they carry 16 different guns in various orifices and enough ammo to stand off the Crips. It's bullsh**.

[JohnKSa]

So because the probability of death from poor habits is higher we should neglect to even prepare for less likely causes of death?

I'm not sure exactly how the two are related...

And I've got to ask, who are you trying to convince, what are you trying to convince them of, and why?

[The Rabbi]

And I've got to ask, who are you trying to convince, what are you trying to convince them of, and why?

For you? Nothing. Never mind. Wrong number. :rolleyes:

[JohnKSa]

Clearly you have some problems with what other people are calling reasonable levels of preparation. So, why not post what YOU think is reasonable as opposed to simply labelling other positions as farcical or comedic?

I'm assuming that your involvement in this thread is Not based solely on the desire to denigrate other's opinions or ridicule other's comments. You're not going to prove me wrong, are you? ;)

[Wraith]

I don't think it's unreasonable to take precautions. Yes, the likelihood of a home invasion happening to any of us is slim. That being said, it is still wise to be careful, diligent, and to maintain situational awareness.

Do I worry about cancer because I smoke and drink? Not really. I've accepted the risks and in my mind the benefits of a fine cigar and stout beer outweigh those risks. Why? Because I like to relax, and that is how I do it. I have every right to risk my own life.

There is a significant difference between lung/throat cancer and a home invasion. You can prepare for both, but ultimately you have control over how many beers you consume and no control at all if you are targeted for a home invasion.

Will I defend myself if it comes to that? You can take it to the bank. Why? Because no man has the right to endanger my family or destroy what I’ve worked for.

[Don Gwinn]

I don't smoke, don't drink, and I've lost about 100 pounds since last November. I suppose that means I get to discuss the topic.

[The Rabbi]

Don Gwinn, a 450 lb guy with a 3 pack a day habit consuming a fifth of vodka daily can discuss the topic. It's a free country. But anything about preparing has a lot more validity coming from someone with his priorities right.

[sendec]

I dont think anyone has an issue with being prepared. However, when taken to extremes, like anything else, it starts to lose its luster. Having a gun in hand while walking to you car isnt preparation: its a manifestation of fear and an accident waiting to happen. Preparation is software: the assessment of threat, training and mindset, not the presence of hardware.

If someone lives in such a dangerous environment, wouldnt the best response be to take self and family to live in a different, non-poohhole of a neighborhood? :confused: Who wants to live in a seige?

As to my preparation: I am armed and relaxed but alert, which for inside the CONUS seems to have sufficed for 30 some odd years in urban, suburban and rural environments. I train, and then I train some more. I am not willing to live my life in fear of what might happen, nor will I let the bad guys dictate my behavior.

[Severian]

" If someone lives in such a dangerous environment, wouldnt the best response be to take self and family to live in a different, non-poohhole of a neighborhood? Who wants to live in a seige? "

I've been perusing these forums for quite a while, and have seen this statement numerous times in various incarnations...

I was born in a ghetto. I've lived my 20+ years in that ghetto. My family has resided in that same ghetto. Let me just say it ain't all that easy to move to a "non-poohole of a neighborhood." Such neighborhoods exist due in a large part to poverty. I look outside, and people around here ain't too well-to-do. From what I understand, just up and moving takes time and money, not a real luxury for those in the ghetto.

And as far as giving up or in to the intruders...I heard on the news recently of a 70+ year old woman who was raped and beaten by her home invaders...another elderly couple were tied and tortured, seems the thugs thought they were hiding something.

Fight, people. It's your life. Also, how else are you gonna get to Valhalla? ;)

[choice.of.beverage]

delete

[jarhed]

I learned three rules to survive a gun fight from my Dad over 40 years ago. (I am now 51) 1. Don't be there. 2. Have a gun. 3. BE WILLING. I avoid confrontation and unsafe situations RELIGIOUSLY. I am armed 24/7 at home, at work, at play. Most important of all I AM WILLING. Fists,feet,clubs,knives,guns,I WILL FIGHT to protect my self, my home, and my family. I will not submit to an invader under any circumstances. Bad things may follow any choice but it will be MY choice. Any person who isn't willing to fight for home and family isn't a person, they are a sheeple. :barf: Sometimes my pistol is concealed,sometimes it is exposed and holstered,sometimes it is in my hand or on the car seat next to me. Sometimes a locked and loaded 12 Ga. or my M-14 is my companion. It is all a part of maintaining situational awareness and planning ahead. As Boston says, "No one GOES to a gun fight with a pistol-A pistol is what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you shouldn't have left behind in the first place." My family and I will fight. Semper Fi & Molon Labe

[powderedonuts]

Nice try Rabbi.

But I happen to be in the very pinnacle of fitness. I dont drink and I dont smoke and I dont indulge in unhealthy foods. I dont eat meat other then seafood when in my own home.

This may apply to other people, I dont know. But since your response was directed at my post it doesnt really hold water.

I would agree that those paranoid about getting shot but go around smoking, drinking, and never exercising have their priorities seriously mixed up. Especially the older ones. You want to live longer???? Sure, carry a gun that is your buisness. But would it hurt to take a walk around the neighborhood every evening? If you want to extend your life exercise is a guarantee, a gun isnt. (unless you keel over and die from over exertion, you oldies)

[culcune]

I am personally of the mind that one has to do what one has to do. It is very easy to say how we would defend ourselves, etc., but most of us haven't been in such a situation, and with 5 or 6 bad guys no less!

I used to live in L.A., and remember reading about a landlord who stood up to a group of human scum (gang members) that were defacing an apartment building he owned in a poorer section of town. He engaged them with a .38 pistol, and they pulled out some guns. He was only able to kill one, before he was felled with a shotgun blast. Just make sure that under the circumstances you don't end up being a statistic needlessly. Even police officers are instructed to be good witnesses if they cannot safely engage the bad guys at that particular moment when they are off-duty...

[LAK]

Keep in mind they take their victims by surprise
And therein lies the key, or one of the most significant factors, in most violent assaults, robberies etc.

Be prepared and equipped, have a plan for most foreseeable events, do not establish a routine beyond what you must do - and do not get taken by surprize.