PDA

View Full Version : Shoulder Holsters...


Rob Pincus
December 17, 1998, 12:08 AM
When travelling and often when working I find a shoulder holster to be the best choice for me in terms of comfort.
I am aware of all the tactical arguments against shoulder rigs, but you know what they say about that uncomfortable rig that you leave in your briefcase or in the truck. Not much good at all.

Scott,

Do you build shoulder rigs? I am looking for a few vertical rigs for smaller guns than they are usually offered. Sadly, over the past few years I've lost a couple inches of shoulder and chest and find that while I am getting softer, it is also getting harder to use a horizontal shoulder rig without printing.
Since I am unlikely to get back into decent shape any time soon, I'd rather spend the cash a good vertical rig for my Glock .40s and maybe another handgun.

What is available?

------------------
-Essayons

4V50 Gary
December 17, 1998, 12:40 AM
Shoulder holsters have the disadvantage of offering the grip if the naughty person knows its there and not on a hip rig. It almost goes without saying that the wearer should stand over an arm and and half distance away and have the rig concealed from sight. Standing offset puts you in position to draw (Weaver), but puts the gun closer to naughty person.

That said and done, when you have to defecate, wearing a shoulder holster beats sitting there pointing your gun at the door.

Personally, I like shoulder rigs.

Rich, is this posting protected by the First Amendment or is it subject to censoring?

Scott Evans
December 17, 1998, 12:47 AM
Rob,
I do make shoulder rigs; they are all custom made one at a time. I will be happy to work with you and set up the rig anyway you like for just about any pistol. Cost for shoulder rigs start at $95 and include offside carry pouch for a magazine. Please keep in mind that at the moment we are backlogged and delivery could be 8-12 weeks or more.

The past week I have been carrying the “Genghis” using a very light shoulder rig I call the “Micro” harness. I have found that a shoulder rig is extremely comfortable and placed my knife where I could quickly draw it with either right or left hand while keeping it concealed. When I was in the Marine Corps during the Persian Gulf War I carried my Caspian 1911 .45 in a shoulder rig. This worked extremely well especially while driving. Now a days I usually go for the IWB carry for the pistol (strong side) and the knife off side.

Kodiac
December 17, 1998, 07:43 PM
Shoulder Rigs are great for travel! It is much easier to draw from the shoulder rig than from any belt rig... except from a cross draw unit - but those are harder to keep covered.
Cant find a good shoulder rig for an HK USP full size .40... Oh well...

Rob Pincus
December 17, 1998, 07:48 PM
Galco makes one, in horizontal position, Kodiac. But for a similar price (possibly less that retail on the Galco), the custom job by Scott might be better if you can stand the wait!

I have sent Scott a list of things I'd like in an email.. Maybe he can get me a holster before SHOT show and I can show it off there... wink,wink.

------------------
-Essayons

Scott Evans
December 19, 1998, 12:08 AM
Rob,
I would like that as well :)
Maybe we will run into each other in Atlanta.

Rob Pincus
December 19, 1998, 12:12 AM
Scott,

I recieved your Email. Here is the best I could manage on a picture of what I was talking about:
http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/2/w/2wheels/hunt/holster1.JPG

(yes, I am available for all of the members' artistic needs.. I work cheap too!)
-----------------
-Essayons

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 12-19-98).]

Rob Pincus
December 19, 1998, 01:20 AM
Here is a Horizontal version. It would not allow as quick access to the knife as a primary, but it would certainly be there as a back-up!
http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/2/w/2wheels/hunt/holster2.JPG

------------------
-Essayons


[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 12-19-98).]

Kodiac
December 21, 1998, 02:34 PM
I nominate ROB to be the official GRAPHIC ARTIST for The Firing Line.

Good idea Rob... Combining the unit is a good idea, it would allow an easy way to carry a good sized fixed blade knife. I could see a Cold Steel Recon Tanto snugged up next to a USP or Glock for a fighting combo...

Consider this... even in Kydex the package may be a tad bulky... unless it is done "just right"... meaning a lot of experimenting. :)
Think about the knife molded/sewn onto the double magazine pouch on the other side to even out the bulk...
Huh? What do you think?


------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com

Rob Pincus
December 21, 1998, 02:42 PM
Scott's the expert, hopefully, he'll weigh in soon.

I originally thought about the knife sheath in place of one of the mag pouches on the strong side of the holster. But, that would defeat the ability to draw the knife with the strong hand.

Kodiac
December 21, 1998, 05:44 PM
Oops, never mind here...







[This message has been edited by Kodiac (edited 12-21-98).]

Rob Pincus
December 21, 1998, 05:48 PM
Kodiac,

ROTFLMAO!!!

Are you trying to get us to take up a collection to get your Desktop working again??!! ;)

Scroll up!! (and retire that palmtop!)

------------------
-Essayons

Kodiac
December 21, 1998, 05:50 PM
Hey my post appeared!
Call Moulder and Scully...
I like two extra mags... I dont know if I would give up a mag for a knife.
I think this has potential. I wonder what kind of refinements a custom holster maker would make here. I would like to see a finished product on this one.

What kind of knife are you planning on here?

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com

Rob Pincus
December 21, 1998, 05:54 PM
(I'm still LOL!)...

Depends, It will probably be whatever small (3 inch or less blade) fixed blade catches my eye at SHOT show.

I will probably be ordering one of the Mirage-X Micros after the new year, but that knife's characteristics would be lost on this design.

I saw a custom push knife that I really liked at a show over the weekend. If it wasn't Xmas week, I'd've bought it.

Kodiac
December 21, 1998, 05:59 PM
AAaaarrrggghhhh!
I HATE WIN-CE.
Pronounced "Wince" for good reason.
Good grief. I hope Santa is getting that new Hard Drive like I demad... -suggested.
Cant get the thing to send my attached .BMP file of knife designs. This is a pain in the fanny. Spent an hour sketching them into digital and now I cant do anything with it!.
I got to go get some more NOG and play Black Beard with my 5 year old...
And new batteries for this piece of crud computer wanna be. I should have paid 200 extra bucks and got a full blown laptop when I had the chance.

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com

Kodiac
December 21, 1998, 06:03 PM
Mirage X is a nice knife... But I am not comfortable with a ceramic knife as a carry blade.
I am sure there will be plenty of suitable knives at the show. I pitty you having to decide on just ONE! :)

Talk at ya latter,

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com

Scott Evans
December 21, 1998, 06:40 PM
Rob,
What knife did you have in mind? ( You read my mind Kodiac )

A knife held handle down, on the magazine side, could easily be drawn by the strong hand in the reverse grip. If someone were trying to relive you of your pistol you could clamp down on your gun with the left hand while drawing immediately into a knife strike with the right. (a GAF-MU maneuver .. Get Away From Me U) Also, no need to chose between knife or magazine. The flat knife sheath can attach to the back side of the Mag pouch. The balance of the rig depends on the weight of the various components, how you adjust the harness and weather you anchor it down to the belt. A medium size knife is no trouble here. Knife on the gun side will have more of an effect on the bulk of the rig then on the balance (again I'm speaking of a medium to small size knife). If the gun side is where you want the knife I will work it out that way for you, however, (just thinking out loud here) from a tactical perspective I think the knife opposite the gun gives better options. What are your thoughts about this?


I'm wondering what the other forum members think the best configuration would be.

Jump in guys


I see you answered the what knife question while I was composing :)

[This message has been edited by Scott Evans (edited 12-21-98).]

Rob Pincus
December 21, 1998, 06:50 PM
hmmmm.....
You'll recall that my first thought was oppostie the gun, then, wehn I realized we were working with Kydex, I thought the knife could be put on the gun side without too much additional bulk.... Now you've got me thinking again....

I am thinking of a fixed blade knife with a max 3" blade. Don't know exactly which one. Open to suggestions.

As for the vertical holster itself, can you produce a holster that will retain the pistol under physically exerting circumstances (running, limited HTH, falling down, etc...) that can still have a open front? I was thinking of the classic 6 inch revolver holsters that were vertical, but allowed a "pull-through" presentation. That would be necessary for the presentation to be as fast as possible from shoulder carry.

Scott Evans
December 21, 1998, 08:05 PM
Rob,
The properties of Kydex combined with the retention I build into my shoulder rigs makes it very unlikely that your weapon could come out of the holster without pulling it out. If you jumped off the roof and landed on your head the weapon may possibly dislodge. (With such an impact "gun out of the holster" is probably no longer a priority) :) Simply falling while running is just not enough in my experience to do it. I do make thumb breaks if that is something you desire however, I don't think it is necessary for this type of rig. (your call)

As far as which knife ?? … Mission has a new small blade called the MPU and a medium sized knife called the MPS both will be available in Titanium or steel. Both are well suited for your application. The smaller MD knives are also a good choice. I have not yet had any experience with the Mirage-X Micros and don't know if I could recommend them for a defensive knife. I'm sure the other forum members can fill you in on that.

By the way I would like the mention of some other makers of fine quality Kydex shoulder rigs as I do not want to take unfair advantage of this site for my own personal business. Please feel free to ask me anything you want but keep in mind that this forum is not about me. I moderate here because Rich Lucibella was kind enough to ask and because I do enjoy and learn from the discussions. So … if anyone knows of a reputable maker of quality Kydex shoulder rigs please mention it so Rob and any other person contemplating a purchase can make an informed choice.


James Piorek "The Blade Rigger" makes some innovative shoulder rigs jsp@bladerigger.com

Rob Pincus
December 21, 1998, 08:44 PM
Please, don't make me use Paint again!...

Do you remember the "three sided" vertical shoulder holsters, like the type Dirty Harry used, I believe?
The draw stroke actually brought the grip down to the horizontal position instead of lifting it up. Picture the weapon pivoting on the muzzle, then the wepoan is brought out as if it had been in a horizontal holster. the leather holsters used some "spring tension" from metal inside the leather to hold the opening closed until the draw forced the "mouth" open.
I want to know if that can be done in Kydex.

I want the Mirage for its ceramic properties, which would be wasted next to a 2lb hunk of metal. I'll look at some knives soon and get back to you.

fal308
December 22, 1998, 10:20 AM
How about a push dagger mounted horizontally behind the mag pouch with the grip mounted right alongside the side of the pouch so that it looked like part of the pouch? Would be easily accessible to either hand.

Kodiac
December 22, 1998, 01:34 PM
Thats the fun part Rob.
There are so many good choices, it would actually be hard to make a bad one.


------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com

Mark THG
December 24, 1998, 03:36 PM
I've been lurking on this site for a while and have watched it grow. Everything that's been said of Shoulder rigs is true. They are very comfortable for driving. And do have a place as part of an overall concealment plan. I own M/D ENTERPRISES and have been making Holsters for a while now. I work in Leather not Kydex and would be happy to discuss the merits of one type of concealment over another.
[gratuitous advertisement deleted by Staff]

....Mark

------------------


[This message has been edited by Staff (edited 12-26-98).]

Morgan
December 24, 1998, 10:57 PM
Welcome, Mark! I'm jlmorga on Shooters, but this is my online home now.

Guys - I don't have any of Mark's holsters, but I've heard very good things. He's been very helpful to posters on Shooters. I hope to get one of his holsters soon (for the Makarov I plan to get at the next gun show) so I'll have more than second hand info.

Scott Evans
December 25, 1998, 01:33 AM
Mark,
Welcome aboard. Do you make a leather shoulder harness? What I’m thinking is combining a quality leather harness with a Kydex holster and mag carrier. By the way I’m in the market for a good shooting belt…

Rob,
I was working on a system that rotates out of the vertical position towards the horizontal on the draw. I think that it will work well providing the extra concealment that you want while not loosing any speed on the draw. Have you narrowed your search on the knife …and have you decided on gun side or mag side for the knife.

BTW … The only reason I’m still up is that I just finished putting together two bikes, a basketball hoop, a golfing gator and a bunch of other things. Just winding down before a long winters nap.

Merry Christmas Ya’ll

Rob Pincus
December 25, 1998, 01:54 AM
I'm still up to.
I ordered the Cetan Tanto point from Rob Simovich, but I have been told by several people that you work with some talented fellows in the knife dept. If I read your plan right, the sheath part will swivel, and therefor be detachable? If that is the case, build me the first one for a Glock 23 and a Knife of your choosing. Send me a couple options in Email and I'll pick one. A guy can never have too many toys, right?
(less than 3.5 inches, for sure. preferably $120 or less)

------------------
-Essayons

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 12-25-98).]

Rob Pincus
January 3, 1999, 01:04 AM
WEll, Scott, Any chances of having a prototype at SHOT show?

Scott Evans
January 3, 1999, 04:40 PM
Yes ... that should be doable. I will coordinate with you on the knife selection. I will try to get some images scanned of a few blades that I think will work well and I will post a link or e-mail you direct. Let me know what you think.

Rob Pincus
January 10, 1999, 11:34 PM
This thread is kinda long with the graphics, so I am starting a new one, now that we have moved on to the next phase with the holster...