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Cwalk
June 9, 2005, 05:26 PM
I hunt in Hampton, Ar in a very wooded area. This was my first deer hunt ever. I was shooting a M1 Garand in .308 open sight. My hunting buddy set me up by a feeder next to a small pond. The electronic feeder scared me every time it went off, but obvioulsy did not harm the deer. It actually was the dinner bell for local whitetail. It was cold and even colder since I sat down in a puddle of water that was in my ladder stand(it was dark when i climed up). I watched the sun raise her beautiful smile and cast down her blessing on me. I was very sleepy. I caught myself nodding at times. It wasnt 45 min when i was awakened( yeah I was sleep) by the sound of crackling leaves. I looked up and a small doe was steering right at me. I didn't want to move, was afraid she might hi tail it away. So i sat looking right back at her. She finally went right back to eating the corn. I raised my M1, put the front sight exactly where my hunting buddy exclaimed would be a for sure kill zone( the front shoulder) and BOOOOMMMMM. The deer until this day never knew what hit her. This being my first hunt/kill it was a pretty nasty sight. The deers chest was lying next to her. She was no more than 20 yards away. I sat there looking at the deer in aw. Then another doe came trotting along. She was about 30 yards away. Me being a young ignorant hunter wasted her too with a gut shot that spilled all of her eaten corn. My hunting buddy returned only to find to slaughtered does. He made mention that I only had a tag for one doe and that we could get in lots of trouble. So we loaded the three deer( he killed a doe also) on the four wheeler and hauled ass. This was some first time hunt. I know better now after hunting for now some three seasons without killing a single animal, but i guess its the deer god for taking a illegal doe


_________________________________
"nothing better in life than friends, family, and the outdoors"

impact
June 9, 2005, 06:15 PM
Did you really do this or is this BS? and you know they didn't make to many 308 Garands

Cwalk
June 9, 2005, 06:25 PM
I am dead serious. Actually the Garand is my Fathers. His brother is a veteran and the gun was handed down to my father. This hunt happened in fall 2003 . I had to beg my father the entire year to let me use it. That was the only way i would have went hunting, otherwise i didnt have a gun. Believe me my father cherishes this rifle

EdWilson
June 9, 2005, 07:36 PM
DU lurker? If not, my apologies and good hunting (not poaching) to you.

Countertop
June 9, 2005, 10:08 PM
DU = Democratic Underground

Don't see why people wouldn't believe this. He was pretty clear it was his first hunt and he had limited knowledge about what to do. Plus, he seems somewhat regretful it happened.

Frankly, around here, they can't get enough people to shoot does as it is. Not sure about the rules in Arkansas (and where he was) but if it was private property this may not have been poaching at all.

LAK
June 10, 2005, 04:27 AM
There were M1s reworked to chamber and work with the .308 for the U.S. Navy IIRC. And in recent years some commercially produced versions too I believe.

kingudaroad
June 10, 2005, 12:10 PM
In Texas, it is against the law to poach whether public land or private. We all make mistakes, and they can easily happen in the field.It just seems a little weird to me to post this abortion of a hunt in that dramatic storytelling fashion.Trying to get a reaction? Or just sharing a sad hunting tale.Very strange post anyway.

22-rimfire
June 10, 2005, 12:25 PM
Cwalk: I hope you have worked on your marksmanship since your first hunt.

yorec
June 10, 2005, 01:35 PM
Checking his other posts, I'm inclined to think he's not a troll... just a highly untrainned first time hunter who didn't know much of what to expect or do. :rolleyes:

Most unfortunate - in my state you'd have served jail time and gotten a hefty fine for shooting that second deer. Learn from the experience, study the game laws where you hunt and abide by them religiously. Find someone who will actually teach you what to do and expect - your buddy seems to fall short in the hunter mentoring department.

The close up view of the deer's wound - what did you think would happen? A gunshot wound is not pretty, but it is a very effective way to make a clean and quick kill of a game animal. Next time you'll be more prepared and careful of your shot placement.

One good thing - at least your buddy took all the animals and used them - I hate to see deer go to waste. That at least showed a little bit of morals on his part if not an overly developed intellectual side - hope he learned to do things better too.

Keep working on it - good hunters were not made in a season.

Cwalk
June 10, 2005, 02:18 PM
I admit it was my first hunt. I have learned a lot since that hunt. I have hunted whitetail again and did not see anything. I know I would have been experienced enough to wait on the perfect shot but if one is not presented she walks. As far as my marksmenship I think it is very good, it was a perfect shot just not a good bullet selection. If the deer would have been 100yds instead 20 yds it would still have been a perfect shot, because it was quick and very humane, just a bit messy. My hunting buddy did a great job of letting me know that it was an illegal kill, He could have not told me and congratulated me on a mistake.It was private land, but it belonged to my hunting club(HAWK MOORE HUNTING CLUB)

EdWilson
June 10, 2005, 03:46 PM
I agree. I was presumptuous (I checked the posts too). Cwalk - ya ought to try birds. A lot of walking, but a lot more fun IMHO.

Rojoe67
June 10, 2005, 04:07 PM
Well, let me congratulate you right up to the point of taking doe number 2. You spoiled the whole damn story as soon as you went brain dead and pulled the trigger the second time. Law is law and unless your above the law? you are a poacher....plain and simple. I hope it rides on your mind and bugs you to the point that you read the rules and hunt by them from now on... The anti hunting and anti gun folks get fuel from folks like yourself....please understand the importance of a hunting community and it's ability to police itself too. You are free to think I am a real a**hole for the tongue lashing I just gave you. Honestly you asked for it by your posting of your breaking the law. Remember we are humans and have a big edge on the animals of this earth. Laws of fair chase are for good reason..... You put your friend in a real pickle too....had you guys been caught on the way out of the woods you both would have been in equal dudu........

Make it and live it as it was.......a hard lesson learned........ No more mistakes like that one mister........... OK, you may return to normal the lashing is over.....

PS.... In my state, as I think true most places, even if your on your own land you have to follow the game laws of your state of residence. In Michigan our DNR LEO's have the right to come on any land if they have reason to think laws are broken.... I hear in some issues they have more power than the regular state police for entering private property. In some poaching cases the suspect lost vehicle, rifle, and right to hunt for a number of years. A large fine is also collected from the guilty party. Just isn't worth the loss not to mention the lashing by responsible hunters...... OK, call me what you will........ ;)

Rojoe67
June 10, 2005, 04:24 PM
Poacher: Person whom takes anything by unfair or illegal methods.... many other items explain the word.... but that sentence sums it up for your question..... ;)

Cwalk
June 10, 2005, 04:33 PM
Thanks. Now I know and knowing is half the battle. See, Im becoming a better hunter everyday, becuase hunting is more than just killing. Its respecting Gods country. I dont know how the hunting scenarios are in Michigan( im sure you guys have lots of hunting land :barf: ) Big ole Michigan

22-rimfire
June 10, 2005, 05:53 PM
The hunt club land is NOT your land. They probably lease it, but not necessarily. Hunting is not about "killing". It is about sportsmanship, the chase, and the reward of bagging your quarry in a legal sporting manner. You may get the wrong idea about hunting simply by watching the TV shows about hunting. If I had seen you take the second deer, I would have called the warden. A great lesson in reality.

Frankly, the Garand may be legal in Arkansas, but you might want to consider another weapon that is more traditional.

impact
June 10, 2005, 06:34 PM
In Texas if you were caught with that 2nd deer you would have lost the Garand :eek: and have gotten some fines and lost your right to hunt. In Texas we have a tag that you can tag a deer with for the low income or people needing assistance. But it needs to be taged when you kill the deer. You can't wait for the game warden to say hay what about this deer. The game warden can come over to your house any time day or night to check for illegal game without a warrant. Best thing to do is play it safe and play by the rules.

As far as I know the Garand chambered in 308 was only used for the U.S. Navy and it was a 30-06 with an insert in the chamber so the 308 would headspace correctly. If it is one of these gun it is a rare gun. I have never seen one but I'm not a Garand expert. I would say the gun is worth at least several thousand dollars? Now if you lost that gun because of that 2nd deer :eek: They make new Garands chambered in 308 that start at about $1000.

Long Path
June 10, 2005, 06:49 PM
They make new Garands chambered in 308 that start at about $1000. Um, they can be found cheaper.

The Navy block is pretty common, and only requires a broken shell extractor to remove. Not exactly new technology-- they're about half a century old. ;)

Mr. Cwalk, it's worth respecting your game enough to speak more reverently of it and to learn the laws on taking it.

kingudaroad
June 10, 2005, 10:19 PM
As far as the police, by the time they new what went on, we were in the house eating deer steaks, rice,and gravy.
Not feeling a whole lot of remorse from 'ol poacher boy! Dude, you should not be allowed to ever hunt again. Your the worst kind of idiot!I hope theres a game warden from your state reading this right now .Maybe they can still prosecute.I'm gonna check your profile now.Maybe theres enough info for me to turn you in personally.

Twycross
June 11, 2005, 12:45 AM
I think this would be a good time to lock this thread. It started out badly, and is only degenerating.

Rojoe67
June 11, 2005, 05:20 AM
twycross.............. I agree it wasn't a good start and now he is getting a verbal beating........and it should be locked up why???? seems on target to me....and at this moment I am sure a few moderators have seen it and still think it's on topic too.....

Rojoe67
June 11, 2005, 05:30 AM
Yep, Michigan is a good sized state for the sportsman. Your land mass is around 53,000 sq. miles and mine here in MI is about 97,000. That means what? I guess all it means is that Michigan is about 2 times as big as AR. The population in Michigan is about 2 times more per sq. mile too.


Regards......... Rojoe67

Last word from me - I promise is the word "ethics"...............

Eghad
June 11, 2005, 10:26 AM
Well it possible dear old dad could have had the Garand rebarreled to .308 also.

I havent hunted in quite a few years..but usually before I engage in an activity I read material concerning the law or rules....

broke the law on the second one there......

butch50
June 12, 2005, 09:12 PM
I will tell a short and true story that makes a point.

I have an Uncle who (now passed away) was an avid deer hunter, and a very fine shot. When he got into his late 60s his eyesight became poorer. One day he was hunting on his oil lease which was pretty much mesquite brush country, and jumped aa buck that took off running, he saw an opening ahead of the deer, aimed at the opening and when the deer ran thru it he took a running shot, but the deer kept going. He saw another opening in line with where the deer was running, levered in around and swung his 30/30 and as the buck ran through the second opening he shot and the deer kept running, this happened a third time as well. This was all in one quick set of moves, three shots and three apparent misses.

He was really upset because he had never missed that badly in his life, and he had been hunting since he was about 6 years old. He walked up to the first opening to check for blood/hair and....well to make it short like I promised he had shot and killed three separate bucks. They had been spread out and the timing was right, and his eye sight really was just bad enough but he was still a good shot. He only had tags for two bucks though, so he was one over.

The point? He went and field dressed and took the deer home (not cold enough to leave them) and then he called the game warden, and when the game warden came he told him what happened and took him out where it happened. The game warden gave him a pretty hard time, but ultimately assumed that he was being honest or would not have called him in. The game warden did not cite him, but did take the third buck, antlers and all, with him to dispose of at a State school.

The point is that if you hunt, you obey the law. If you don't know what the law is you shouldn't be hunting. Once you know that you broke the law you should call the game warden and stand there and tell him the truth, 100%. It is unethical to hunt without knowing the laws, and in fact it is just plain laziness not to have read the book that they give away free when you get your license.

Bic
June 13, 2005, 01:13 AM
Butch50
Accidents happen, but in my neck of the woods if you call a warden and advise them that you made a mistake, and either shot to many or wrong sex it seems to be the concenus that "you can plead your case to the judge" and consider yourself lucky if all they do is cite you, rifles are not out of the question at all of being seized, My policy is if a accident happens, not that it has, yet, tell them the truth "if caught" and co-operate fully. But I would never call them on myself, around these parts anyway. My hunting partner of 25 or so years and I, have made this decision not to ever leave a animal to waste if a mistake was made. Then face the music as it plays. ( not that any animal is wasted in the bush, it will be cleaned up by other animals) Just the choice that we made.

artsmom
June 13, 2005, 04:40 PM
My great uncle grew up on a homestead in the Sandhills of Nebraska, and always had a friendly but adversarial relationship with the Game and Parks Commission, who he saw as Johnny Come Latelys into managing for wildlife. He was fond of saying this about them: "What they don't know won't hurt them, and what they do know, doesn't help them." I think that applies here.

Once the second deer is dead, the damage is done. Paying a fine doesn't bring it back to life, does it? Skin it, eat it, and think about what is going to be different next time the second deer comes along, and that should be the end of it.

I see a lot of people "casting the first stone" here. I take it you are all without sin? Kingudaroad, how about you?

Rojoe67
June 13, 2005, 05:54 PM
Butch and Bic......... Very good to read these as well....

cwalk.......... You can call me a freaking hunting god, although I am far from it and know very little about most things of this world.... You can call me a redneck too on whatever grounds you wish, I have been called a lot worse. You can call me a prick and a moron too but that shows your level doesn't it? Only a few have to resort to name calling because feelings got hurt.... Just start at the top and go through the whole post one more time.... A hunting community is trying to tell you what you did and how you explained it isn't showing a lot of insight on your part.....

artsmom.......I try not to cast any stones but I also try to help out those who have or hold the rock in their hand....... I'm just human and never claimed to be any thing more than that........

I am glad we can talk about it and maybe learn something from it - even me...the redneck, prick, moron that I am... Regards and safe hunting to all ;)

butch50
June 13, 2005, 08:25 PM
I call BS on this guy. :D I just reread his initial post and his replies and he is lying thru his teeth.

I have been hunting and buying hunting licenses as long as I care to remember. Every year when I buy a license I get a little free booklet that tells what day the season opens, what the bag limits are, where you can hunt, etc. Who doesn't read it? You have to at least read the basics on what you can take and on what day it starts because it can change from year to year.

BS on Cwalk's saying that he did not know what the bag limit was. ;) That is the most basic information there is and the first question a novice would ask. He claims to have been hunting on hunting club land. Surely to get on that land he had to have been informed what the limits are - anyone ever hunt in a club for the first time and not have someone fill you in on what you can and can not do? What you can and can not shoot? Where you can and can not go?

On my hunting license there are deer tags, and those tags tell me what I can use them for, and guess what guys, it isn't that hard to count them up or to understand what you have available to you. Who doesn't read the tags on their license? :p

His whole opening scene is disingenuous to an extreme and full of inconsistencies, read it again. For instance he said the feeder scared him every time it went off and he was awakened 45 minutes after he got into the stand. How many times does a feeder usually go off in 24 hours? the few I have seen go off about twice a day, usually at daybreak and then about dusk. He also claimed that it was freezing and that he sat in cold water and then fell asleep, but he was awake to see the sunrise. Really? Ever try to sleep while sitting in freezing cold water?

Then he says he blew the deers chest out with a 308 with a shoulder shot. At the distance he shot, which he says is 20 yards, the more likely scenario is a relatively small exit wound due to the retained velocity, but hey it could happen the way he said it - but I doubt it since he said the deer's chest was laying beside it which would be a huge exit wound. Plus I have never seen a deers organs just blown out onto the ground. Then as he was staring at it (in aw for crying out loud :eek: ) another doe comes bebopping on up to the feeder where a doe was just shot and is lying with its chest next to it. Not where I hunt they don't. Shoot one and the others don't come piling out of the woods anxious to see what is going on, especially with large volumes of blood scent filling the air. But wait! Theres More! He then says he gut shot a doe and it apprently fell down dead right there! With a 308 at 30 yards hitting only soft tissue? Only in the movies. Ever trailed a gut shot deer?

Want more? Read this from another post on this site from him just 5 days ago:

hunt in a very wooded area where a 50 yard shot would be not likely. I shot a deer last year( my first deer) with a .308 at about 15 yards, blew the deers chest out. I used 150gr winchester soft point. and then this from his opening scene in this thread:

I know better now after hunting for now some three seasons without killing a single animal, but i guess its the deer god for taking a illegal doe Little timing problem there old buddy Cwalk..... :D

This guy is a troll and is jerking chains and sitting in front of his computer giggling to himself. :rolleyes:

Rojoe67
June 13, 2005, 09:55 PM
Your right about what he wrote and so on.....I saw it too but hey if someone wants to make up stories let them. I will take it for what it is.... As far as a few things strange I have seen when hunting; some 5-6 years ago I was in a thick cedar swamp my buddy's parents own. about an hour before dark a nice 4 point came in. I watched him for about 15 minutes before I decided to take him. This area of northern Michigan seems to grow smaller racks due to growing season and food available. I think the genetics are something to do with this too. Anyhow I did take a shot and he went a short 30-40 yards before he fell down and expired. I began to dress him out and I heard a crack behind me. I spun around thinking someone was coming up on me and it was another buck (spike) within 40 yards standing there watching me... I took a few steps toward him and talked to him....I kid you not the buck stood looking at me. I felt as if this deer I took might have been his pal. It gave me a strange but real feeling about nature. I took a few more steps and clapped my hands and he ran about another 20-30 yards and stopped once more, he continued to watch me as I cleaned my buck...... When I was done and began to drag the deer back up to the road the spike ran deep into cover...... So I can say for one I can picture another deer coming up.... Nature is a curious thing and I'm sure the younger deer are stupid sometimes when it comes to knowing when is not the time to stand broadside to a human that just made your pal fall down and stop acting like he was a second ago :confused:

As far as auto feeders I think they have the timer ones that can feed many times on some clock settings........ Mine is a dawn and dusk type....Problem in my area the bears enjoy it and last season got ahold of the thing and tore it all to heck.......after they finished the corn in it :D Oh well.....

MeekAndMild
June 13, 2005, 10:08 PM
he says he blew the deers chest out with a 308 with a shoulder shot...but hey it could happen the way he said it - I don't think so. Shooting down from a ladder stand a shot to the shoulder would have produced bone breakage and a good bit of internal hemorrhage, but there would be a relatively short wound channel, no more than 12 inches at most angles, so your first conjecture about the small exit wound would be the correct one. I doubt that the exit wound would have been more than 3/4 to 1 inch in diameter. (You've got to remember that chest exit wounds tend to be limited by the amount of rib bone that can be shattered, and by the cohesive effect of the pleura.) Most HP chest exit wounds I've seen in deer and humans have been coverable by a quarter. Of course I could be worng too. I've been wrong before.

The deers chest was lying next to her. I've seen a whole lot of GSWs in the last 30 years. I've never seen anything close to that except guys I saw in the Emergency Room who'd been shot a half dozen times in the chest...and those were because it was protocol for the chief surgery resident to open the chest and give internal cardiac massage. The mess was due to the surgery and not the initial wounds. (Any surgeons online tonight before this thread gets closed by the mods for its bad language?)

Then another doe came trotting along. She was about 30 yards away. Me being a young ignorant hunter wasted her too with a gut shot that spilled all of her eaten corn. OK so how did this doe who had just come up to eat after you had been sitting in the stand so long just happen to have a belly full of corn? And how did a gut shot kill her instantly? And how did it pop her like a balloon? And where was the half gallon of smelly green goo that is the usual product of a rumen shot?


Sorry Cwalk. Just because it sounds plausible to the uninitiated don't make it believable to those who've seen it. You've got to have a few years of experiance before you can spin good yarns. Now I've got one about a bull bream I caught last Saturday and the bass that tried to make off with it but that's another story. Bass looked like the shark in "Jaws", except it was only about a foot wide between the eyes. :D

BTW Cwalk, what you've seen on this thread is a legitimate tool of literary criticism known as 'deconstruction'. No offense intended. ;)

Rich Lucibella
June 14, 2005, 12:52 AM
Thread closed with my apologies for not having caught it sooner.
Poaching is to hunting, what a drive by is to shooting.
No interest here.
Rich