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blades67
January 27, 2000, 04:51 PM
What equipment do I need? Who should I talk to first?
I'm in Arizona, so speaking with someone locally would be helpful.

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

~David~

May your lead always hit center mass and your brass always land in your range bag.

Hal
January 27, 2000, 05:17 PM
Howdy Blades,
I had the same newcomer questions a couple months ago. The guys here covered it pretty well. If you get a chance, Saturday mornings on HSs' Para Ord chat, most of the chatters are CAS shooters, and usually can answer just about anything you can want to know.

http://www.thefiringline.com/NonCGI/Forum6/HTML/000096.html

Bill Mitchell
January 27, 2000, 07:29 PM
Howdy Blades,

Hal steered you towards a good thread that covers equipment pretty well. For shoots and contacts in your area of AZ,go to the Homepage of the Single Action Shooting Society (http://www.sassnet.com) and click on the link for Affiliated Clubs. Here you'll find the CAS clubs in AZ and contacts for each club. FYI,the second largest CAS shoot in the world,Winter Range (http://www.primenet.com/~gilaslim/),is being held in AZ next month. There will be about 500 shooters and dozens of vendors for your perusal.

If you have any more questions,feel free to fire away! http://forum.arstechnica.com/forum/ubb/smileyshot2.gif

Bellicose Bill



[This message has been edited by Bill Mitchell (edited January 27, 2000).]

fal308
January 28, 2000, 11:30 AM
Bill
Really like your smileys!!

Ned Roundtree
January 28, 2000, 03:56 PM
Bill, I'm sure your smilie must have felt his life was in mortal danger. Another words, that was defensive shooting wasn't it? Blades67, your lucky to live in AZ with such great cowboy matches and support. Not everyone has all guns when they first get started. When you sign up at a cowboy match, be sure and let the office people know what guns you are lacking, so they can stick you in a posse to share your missing guns. If that is necessary. A bare minimum to get started is probably one single action revolver and one lever action rifle. A second revolver and shotgun you may be able to borrow. In any case, your in for lots of fun.

[This message has been edited by Ned Roundtree (edited January 28, 2000).]

blades67
January 30, 2000, 02:20 AM
Howdy Bellicose Bill and RAE,
Thanks for the links. I wasn't sure if I had to be in costume to get started, but SASS rules state that I do. That was exactly the info I was looking for. I guess I'll have to go out to the Cowboy shoots at Rio and get some tips and ideas. Dang, another hobby that's gonna make me broke! ;) Like I have any cheap hobbies. :D

What do you shoot, blackpowder, traditional, modern? http://forum.arstechnica.com/forum/ubb/smileyshot2.gif

------------------
Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

~David~

May your lead always hit center mass and your brass always land in your range bag.

[This message has been edited by blades67 (edited January 30, 2000).]

Angel Diamond
January 30, 2000, 11:02 AM
Blades,
As far as dressing cowboy at your first match,you'll be okay if you wear a cowboy hat,cowboy boots, jeans & a western type shirt. You can refine your costume as time & money permit. Some folks go all out and others stay with the minimum dress requirements. The main thing is to get out there, be safe & have fun!

Angel Diamond

blades67
February 1, 2000, 12:23 AM
Howdy All.

I think I'm going to use the .44-40 for my pistol and rifle chambering. (I don't have the guns yet.) From reading about CAS I know that the .45 Colt is popular for both pistol and rifle, but in the spirit of the game I'd like to have an authentic combo. Is the .44-40 common? If there is another chambering that would be easier to find, yet still period correct, what would it be?
Also, I don't have a chronograph, so how do I find out how fast my loads are moving? Will the local clubs check this for me?
Thanks.

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

~David~

May your lead always hit center mass and your brass always land in your range bag.

fal308
February 1, 2000, 09:40 AM
Some other authentic combos are .38-40 (the original .40 S&W!),.38-55, .32-20 and .32-40. Some of these are harder to come by than others. The .44-40 is also period correct and was one of the more popluar combination setups back then (for those that could afford both rifle and pistol).
If you reload, check the manuals. Several manuals and online manuals now have CAS reloading information. If you don't reload quite a few manufacturers are now loading CAS ammo. Smaller operations like Black Hills up to the larger such as Winchester both load CAS loadings. They even come in period-style boxes :).
As for checking your bullet speed. I've never had to chrono at a local match (I believe the regional and national matches all chrono though). Most shooters who reload download so far that they're not even in the ballpark of speed. I've seen single actions shooting at, what the shooter told me, was something like 500 fps or less! Most download for quicker followup shots. Less recoil = quicker followup. When you use .44 or.45 you don't need a whole lot of speed to knock over a plate or popper :cool: If you go the smaller caliber route you will have to get up a little speed as you're shooting a bullet with less mass to knock over steel so more velocity is critical then.
Good luck in whatever you choose.

Ned Roundtree
February 1, 2000, 04:25 PM
Most cowboys I have talked to don't like 44-40 because of difficulties in reloading the brass. At our club only a couple actually shoot 44-40. Most popular are 45LC, 38 special, 44 mag/sp in that order. Secondly, don't rely on a club to chrono you. Our club rule is if the steel target don't move or we can't hear it, YOU DIDN'T HIT IT. Guess what, load too light and no one knows you hit the targets. I myself have found a 125 grain at 650 fps with 38 sp, I sometimes get calls against me cause they don't hear it hit. When the guys are used to 45LC all day it's hard to adjust to lighter loaded 38s. At 500 fps you are definitely going to have problems getting your targets judged as being hit. So, don't overdue it!!

blades67
February 7, 2000, 07:36 PM
What kind of difficulties are they talking about? I know the 44-40 is a bottleneck cartridge requiring the use of case lube, but the same is true of most rifle and some pistol cartridges. Is it that they just don't like using case lube?

------------------
Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

~David~

Remember, just because I'm paranoid,
doesn't mean they're not out to get me.
http://forum.arstechnica.com/forum/ubb/smileyshot2.gif

[This message has been edited by blades67 (edited February 07, 2000).]

Bill Mitchell
February 7, 2000, 08:02 PM
Howdy Blades,

Yea,most folks just like to skip the lubing of the cases. 44-40 case are a little thin and tend to crumple a bit easier than the straight wall cases. My pard Joe West is a die-hard 44-40 shooter,and he doesn't seem to have any problems.

Bellicose Bill

Joe West
February 8, 2000, 01:07 AM
Hey that lube is good and good for you too!
The pump sprays are the best to me. IMHO 44-40 is easy once you get everything worked out and nothing works better in a lever action than 44-40 or 38-40. Especially if you're using BP. You've got to make adjustments and experiment to get the most out of any caliber. 44-40 gives you a lot for your efforts. The big rim gives reliable extraction. The necked case aids feeding. It shoots a little flatter and uses a slightly lighter bullet than the traditional .45 Colt round but still hits hard. It was a real cowboy caliber in the old lever guns. The best part is most folks don't want to fool with it so sometimes you can get really good deals on the guns and they give you whatever brass they find for it.
I can't figure out why they even make the other calibers.
Joe West

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blades67
February 8, 2000, 02:11 AM
Howdy Joe,

Where should I start looking for a good deal on a 44-40 lever gun? I haven't decided if I will shoot BP or smokeless yet. I know that BP is great fun, but it is such a maintenance headache. First I must acquire the firearms and accouterments, then I'll chose my powder.

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!



[This message has been edited by blades67 (edited February 08, 2000).]

Joe West
February 8, 2000, 03:15 AM
Right now the bargains are NIB Rossi '92s at less than $275 at gun shows and Uberti Yellowboys from Cabelas at less than $600. If you are in our area, Atlanta Ga, I could help you find something. If not find a FFL dealer in your area that will check his distributors for bargains on 44-40s. The last of the Rossis are being liquidated. Rossis need action jobs, but still end up being a bargain. Check gun shows and CAS matches for deals from individuals who've decided to go with a different caliber. Even Ruger Vaqueros are usually cheaper in 44-40. I got mine second hand for $250 each, like new. You have to have the cylinder mouths opened to .428, but they shoot real good then. That costs about $25 per gun and is usually the reason for the poor accuracy that's motivating your seller to sell. There's a lot more guns out there than shooters so be patient, try your friends guns at matches, and buy what suits you.
Joe West

blades67
February 11, 2000, 03:23 AM
What about Navy Arms? I saw an ad for a Navy Arms 1892 listing 44-40 as an available caliber. Are their actions more or less refined than the Rossi '92?

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

Bill Mitchell
February 11, 2000, 08:41 AM
Howdy Blades,

The Navy Arms '92s are made by Rossi,so aside from finishing differences,they are the same gun.

Bellicose Bill