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View Full Version : Is it BAD to want to COMPETE in IDPA or IPSC to win?


cqbshooter
May 25, 2005, 04:28 PM
Is it a bad thing to want to join in these competitions with the sole purpose of wanting to achieve first place? Understanding of course that it will mean ALOT of practice, training, and did I mention practice, reloading and everything else that we love about shooting.

Does this forum view this as a BAD thing? :confused:

Don

Number 6
May 25, 2005, 05:17 PM
It's called COMPETITION for a reason. :rolleyes: Those who don't want to compete should stick with "No-Score Soccer/T-Ball/blissninnie game of choice."

Bring your best game and be prepared for a serious Reality Check - but it will still be FUN!

dasmi
May 25, 2005, 05:29 PM
Is it a bad thing to want to join in these competitions with the sole purpose of wanting to achieve first place?
holy hell man!
That is whiney leftist speak! "It's just for fun, no one needs to win, we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings"
Hell yes you want to win! There is nothing wrong with that. The desire to be first will make you work harder, and become better, even if you don't ever actually win.

HSMITH
May 25, 2005, 06:33 PM
I want to win too.

One thing to keep in mind is realistic expectations, if you expect to win right away or without putting in the hours and rounds of QUALITY practice you will be very disappointed. The only other thing to really consider is realistic goals for improvement. Set your bar high, but not so high that it is unreachable.

Don Gwinn
May 25, 2005, 10:22 PM
He's not asking whether the forum thinks competition is bad and "everybody is a winner."

He's asking whether the forum thinks it's bad to compete solely to win in these games because, in order to do that, you will probably end up doing something "untactical" to get a competitive advantage. The "IDPA is pure tactical training" crowd doesn't like that.

The answer is that the forum doesn't think anything. Some people here agree with you, some don't. State your case and we'll talk about it.

Double Naught Spy
May 25, 2005, 10:52 PM
It isn't bad if you want to compete to win. However, it would be pretty bad (stupid) to compete to lose such competitions.

Jeff Loveless
May 25, 2005, 11:22 PM
Of course there is nothing wrong with setting a goal to WIN and working toward that goal. But, there is another approach. Sometimes, just sometimes ......

you might decide to not concentrate on winning in order to try something new or different. Maybe a new pistol that you're NOT 100% with yet. Maybe you want to shoot always from concealment when it is not required. One day you just might decide to shoot ALL stages strong hand only or use real full power factory ammo. You'd be improving yourself (prepping for future matches, maybe?) but you'd also be at a disadvantage to everyone else, for the purposes of the match scoring that day.

I mentioned this recently on another forum and was roundly booed for not wanting to always win in the scoring. Fight to win! Win to survive! Rah, rah! Interestingly, it seems it's the folks that invest so much of themselves in WINNING that dissapprove of someone not doing the same. At least from their point of view. Part of needing to win so badly is in beating you when you're at your best and I can understand that part of competition.

That's fine, but I don't see anything wrong with USING a match setup to refine or develop some other skills too. If you go into it knowing that it will probably knock you out of winning, so be it. I don't see this as "whiney leftist speak" myself, and I don't try to get others to do as I do. I may in fact choose to get in some "tactical training" that day, but I don't impose those choices on anyone else.

It's your business why you compete and it is my business why I compete. Sometimes I choose to only compete with myself. Other days I come out ready to join the herd and try to beat everybody else. Be serious but have fun; at worst it'll keep everybody guessing what you're up to that day.

Old Shooter
May 26, 2005, 05:22 AM
Personally - NO

barbwire44
May 26, 2005, 06:16 AM
YOU COMPETE TO WIN??? LOL!!!! Man that's the only reason I go to the shoots. If you've got the competition bug there's nothing you can to do, it is built into us and there is no sense trying to hide it. I love to shoot, but I love to shoot because the more we shoot, the better we get, and the better we get, the greater our chances of winning become! And yes I believe in modifying the gun as much as the rules allow you to do so. I changed barrels recently and went to a shoot and a had a few guys ask me if it made a difference, I said yes not alot but it definately seemed to shoot groups about 1/4" tighter with the aftermarket barrel. And of course a few guys said a 1/4" isn't worth the money, I said have you ever missed the courrugated line on the head shots by a 1/4"??????? I'll take every advantage I can get my hands on. Welcome to the club!

Greenfurniture
May 26, 2005, 07:03 AM
You want to compete in a match and not win? Hmmmm, that's strange. If I were you I would be focused on WINNING.

"You must do your damdest and win."
-General George S. Patton

Overman
May 26, 2005, 08:15 AM
It's one thing to try for a win in a game, such as baseball or chess. There is no other way to measure success other than winning.

But to me, when something can be timed or scored without any need for anyone else, I compete with myself. Can I do better than I did last time. In those instances I really don't give a damn what the other shooters do.

cqbshooter
May 26, 2005, 02:40 PM
Well I thank all of you for responding :D
My personal goal is to shoot a H&K P7M13 or H&K USP 45 Tactical and SMOKE THE "GLOCK LORDS" :cool: They seem to own the winners bracket at a couple of local clubs. It's time that I stepped up and practiced my butt off and gave them a run for their money!!!!

Don :D

And if that don't work I'll buy a Glock :eek:

Jeeper
May 26, 2005, 09:38 PM
I always go to a match to win. Of course I only really like going to matches where there is some good competition. A match where I can win easily isnt any fun since it wasnt a challenge.

impact
May 28, 2005, 08:49 PM
Jeeper what days do you shoot. I'm not to far from pearland. I would like to try to kick your butt at a IDPA match :D I shoot at impactzone every wed night. I shoot CDP MM. I think it would be fun to get together with another forum member and do a match.

Hunter Customs
May 29, 2005, 10:43 AM
Don,
I can't speak for this Forum but my own personal take is that one should be just as competitive as possible and be the best they can at what they do. As you stated, practice is what will get you to the top. In my opinion most handgun competitions are watered down by the class systems they have. Most shooters have been convinced the class system is there to help the shooters, I feel it aids the organizations much more than the shooters. What the class systems does is encourages sand bagging and mediocrity. A true competition should be a heads-up match and the best shooters should be the ones that are rewarded, after all they did not get to the top by setting on their butts and watching TV. I've competed in both heads-up matches and matches with the class system, I always enjoy the heads-up matches more even though at times I get my butt handed to me.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

ted murphy
May 29, 2005, 11:13 AM
Read up on the rules so you know how far you can push it and go for it. Most people shoot IDPA/USPSA to win, even if they do not say it publically.

Don't forget the P7M13 is in Enhanced Service Pistol.

TEd

WESHOOT2
May 30, 2005, 08:11 AM
I play at the match; I win on the street.

Real life is a beatch, ay?

Shoot the match any way you wish, with whatever goal(s) you prefer. Compete as hard or as little as you want.

But regardless of motive, please remember that good sportsmanship is the sign of a true gentleman. Even when you've just stomped on, gut-kicked, and utterly crushed your opponents (even if they little Jr. girls). :D

Crush.
A33102

Bladeandbarrel
June 2, 2005, 07:50 AM
H&K P7M13 or H&K USP 45 Tactical and SMOKE THE "GLOCK LORDS

If you expect to win EX or M class, you better get some equipment that is more conducive to winning the game. There are reasons the 1911 and Glock rule IDPA and it is not just popularity...

ted murphy
June 2, 2005, 11:14 AM
FWIW, I don't think you would be at a disadvantage at all with a P7M13, provided it fits your hand.

Got a real nice trigger and I like the mag release and manual of arms.

Expensive to buy, gets hot after about two boxes of ammo in practice, and HK is a mother for repair work (requiring at least one spare gun IMHO) but other than that it is an excellent gun. I'd shoot one if I had one and wouldn't feel like I took a step down from my G17 at all. Always wanted a P7M8 for carry.

Ted

Jeeper
June 2, 2005, 06:47 PM
Impact,

I havent shot IDPA in years but do shoot against some of your guys in IPSC like vincent and gordon. I also just moved back to Phoenix so we wont get the chance to take each other on any time soon. :D I would welcome the challenge!

impact
June 2, 2005, 08:29 PM
Yah when I first started shooting I shot IPSC with people like Athena :eek: (Much better then me) about three years ago but I only shoot IDPA now. Gorden was going to look at two Berettas that I have this week at Impact zones wed night match but I was feeling under the weather (sick) so I never went. I told Gorden that the two Berettas I have shoot like Sh#t :D . he said he wanted to take a look at the guns. Maybe next wed night. Lets shoot sometime? I will shoot an IPSC match and you can give IDPA a try again.

Bladeandbarrel
June 2, 2005, 10:05 PM
If you want to WIN you will need to shoot many more rounds than the P7 platform is designed to endure.

Not only that, after you shoot 5-10K rds, it sure would be nice to have a gun you can take down to the last pin for cleaning, right?

Oh yeah, I shot a P7 in IDPA for a year when the organization first got up and running. The biggest weakness(es) are the short sight radius followed by overly complex design. Clearing malfunctions is tricky. Reloading is slow because of the angle of the magwell cuts. Oh yeah, the bastard gets hot in the summertime! Trigger is lousy compared to a tuned Glock or 1911.

If something breaks, good luck with HK's repair center!


Anthony
(IDPA Master)

ted murphy
June 3, 2005, 07:30 AM
Anthony,

I know a few guys who do well with P7's. They have several, so they can rotate them out. It helps to have the bucks to be able to do that, which I don't, but the gun will do if you can.

Most guys got P.O.'ed and dropped shooting them when they were bumped to ESP, but you still see them around and doing well in some ares.

I don't like the M13 as much as the M8, but the capacity on the M8 is a little on the self defeating side.

Ted

Eghad
June 5, 2005, 01:13 PM
Thats why they call it competition. The more you compete and the better you compete will have a positive impact on you skills with a pistol. Nothing wrong with winning.....

jonhluk
June 5, 2005, 03:23 PM
I actually was placed third in a recent IPSC practical shotgun competition and no-one was more surprised than me... usually the competition "Bug" infects me or my gun and something fouls up... usually big time.. and I have to be realistic about my skills.. I live in an area where I can't practise shotgun.. long story.. so I usually compete for fun.. Besides if the also rans didn't take part there wouldnt be a competition.

Glenn E. Meyer
June 11, 2005, 10:55 AM
Having shot IDPA for a couple of years, I'm fairly sure that I'm not going to win a competition at my age. However, one can compete against oneself's and see a constant improvement in one's skills. I feel the same about weightlifting. I started with the bar and now can lift fairly heavy weights for my size and age. I ain't going to be Mister Universe but I feel good about what I do.

I find it more self-actualization to watch my skills improve with my carry gun than worry about nuances of equipment giving me a slight advantage.

Of course, if you want to try to win, go ahead. This is America and we do value individual accomplishment.

mike4045
June 13, 2005, 09:12 PM
I have shot all the shooting sports over the last 6 yrs or so. After the new IDPA rule book came out I made the decision to not shoot it anymore. I shot the game to win, not to be tactical or a pretend gunfighter. When I quit I made it as far I could in SSP and not far from it in ESP. No more challenges, matches were more of the same :mad: . They are both just games, one just pushes the limits of you and your eqpt. I got a really good deal on a frame kit and have built an open gun and am now pushing to acheive the same success with it.

My son and wife have just started shooting, so it looks like I will taking them to a few IDPA matches in the near future. I will start them off there to get them used to gun handling. My son has already had some early success and has gotten to bug to push to the next level :D .

If you are not pushy your limits when you shoot what are you out there for? :confused:

Mike

WESHOOT2
June 14, 2005, 05:07 AM
gotta be an IPSC match somewhere nearenoughby in Texas...........