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Gbodyolds
April 13, 2005, 10:25 AM
I would like to know if it is possible to convert a Ruger 10/22 to full auto? i would also like to know if this can be done as a select fire full auto? anyone know of a website i can see info on this ? or have some instructions i can see. is this something i need to have parts made for or can i buy the conversion parts from someone and just install them?

shaggy
April 13, 2005, 10:30 AM
You cannot legally convert a weapon to full auto. You can buy a registered 10-22 full auto trigger pack, but they are few and far between and will run you about $6000-8000.

3 weelin geezer
April 14, 2005, 12:23 AM
Depends on where you live. Just look for '10-22 full auto' or conversions and there are many books that show how. For the states it is for academic study only but for you it may not. Good luck I sure could use something like that. I just bought my second 10-22.

shaggy
April 14, 2005, 12:57 AM
Depends on where you live. Just look for '10-22 full auto' or conversions and there are many books that show how. For the states it is for academic study only but for you it may not. Good luck I sure could use something like that. I just bought my second 10-22.

Yeah...

Just keep in mind its up to a 10 year prison sentence for a felony conviction of the NFA & 922(o), IIRC. You also lose the right to vote and the right to possess a gun legally ever again.

If you want a full auto, do it legally. Its much cheaper than hiring a lawyer to defend you on a felony.

Powderman
April 14, 2005, 02:23 AM
Forgive me for being blunt.

What you are proposing to do is illegal--PERIOD.

You are asking how to break the law. Hopefully, you will NOT find the advice how to do it on this site.

Moreover, be advised that there are some on this site who take a VERY dim view of those who ask how to break the law. Appropriate action--to include the notification of applicable law enforcement agencies--is not out of the question.

If you are sincerely asking out of ignorance, the best people to ask are here:

www.atf.gov

Otherwise, you're begging for prison time. End of story.

fal308
April 14, 2005, 07:52 AM
What they're all saying is that if you live in the USA it's illegal to build a new FA 10/22. Other countries may be different.

Whiskey Tango
April 14, 2005, 09:30 AM
Since you don't seem to be getting anywhere with you question other than knowing lawful firearm owners shun anyone thinking of breaking laws, you have 3 options:


Go to www.hellfiretriggers.com and buy the Auto Burst. I have no idea how it works, but it maintains the BATFE regulations of one round her pull
Learn how to bump fire from the hip
Go to www.gatlingguns.com buy 2 10/22, and make a BATFE compliant gatling gun, which still maintains the one round per trigger pull regulation


I say 3 because you probably aren't looking for a several thousand dollar Class III, so those are legal ways to have 'auto' fire.
Don't bother buying something out of country, big brother is watching, even more so with the Patriot Act.

Gbodyolds
April 14, 2005, 10:02 AM
not looking to brake any laws here i was under the impression that in certian states you can have full auto weapons i was on vacation a few years ago in one of the southern states (alabama if i remember right) went to a firing range and rented a full auto rifle and fired it all day i just assumed since they had it there it was legal to buy, i never really studied the legalitys of guns, is there a site i can read about gun laws ?

Hkmp5sd
April 14, 2005, 12:38 PM
It's easy with MGs. You can only purchase a machinegun that was legally registered prior to May, 1986. You have to do federal paperwork to accomplish it along with paying a $200 transfer tax. The cheapest legal machinegun you can currently buy are Mac-10/11's for around $3,000 each.

Here is a good place for infomation on the laws: Bardwell's NFA FAQ (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt) .

Johnny Guest
April 14, 2005, 02:19 PM
Gbodyolds, I trust you have a pretty clear picture by this time, but I'll belabor the point just a bit further.

Since three of your four posts to date deal with alterations/ modifications/ accessorizing the Ruger 10/22, I'll guess this is your major area of interest. Your fourth post deals with a possibly expensive restoration of an inexpensive shotgun. This all tends to indicate that you are still a novice with firearms.

Sir, you are most welcome on TFL, to learn and grow in your new knowledge. You'll find that most members here are eager to help the new enthusiasts, and also that they'll try to help you keep from running afoul of the various laws.

Sometimes a question is asked, "CAN such-and-such be done?" Frequently, the answer is "Yes, BUT . . ." None of us want to see a new person get into legal troubles by use of information garnered on TFL. Sometimes, the advice you receive (No, NO, DON'T DO THIS THING!) may seem a little strident. Believe me, this is out of concern for you and for us as well. YOU don't need legal problems, and TFL in general doesn't need bad publicity.

In line with the "Yes, BUT - -" answers - - I note your probable location. The "Authorities" in many large cities are very sensitive to modification of sporting arms which leads to the appearence or general effect of machine gunnery. Some modifications which might be perfectly acceptable in certain localities could possibly draw unwelcome attention in, say, the New York City or Boston metro areas. It wouldn't be the first time that installing a (n entirely legal) hand crank rapid fire device was misinterpreted, resulting in a lot of legal red tape.

Thanks to the other members who have given good counsel to the new member, on ways to avoid legal problems.

Best to all.
Johnny

Gbodyolds
April 14, 2005, 09:24 PM
I am fairly new to guns in general I have been shooting for about 5 years or so but always my friends guns we just target shoot for the most part. I never really thought much about it, went out had some fun and went home but in recent months have I started looking in to getting my own I don't mean to sound stupid by not knowing what's legal and what's not, im just inexperienced
where can I find out what the legality's are in different states and how to get permits or what ever else is necessary to have fire arms legally

so while I'm here can someone tell me what the hell is a choke tube it ? I see all these places selling them no clue what their for

Hkmp5sd
April 14, 2005, 10:11 PM
where can I find out what the legality's are in different states and how to get permits or what ever else is necessary to have fire arms legally

Federal Laws: ATF P 5300.4 - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2000 (http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2000_ref.htm)


State Laws: ATF P 5300.5 State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/25thedition/index.htm)


Choke tubes are devices inserted into the end of a shotgun barrel to alter the dispersal of the shot.

grey_pilgrim
April 14, 2005, 10:11 PM
For places to find stuff out about title 2 firearms, i suggest:

http://www.nfaoa.org/

and

www.titleii.com


Most shotguns have a choke at the end of the barrel. THis choke is a constriction which will make the shot pattern smaller (Read: more pellets in a smaller area). This helps for long range shooting, or instances in which the tradeoff of "area affect" for pellets per unit area is worth it (IE, in big game hunting with buckshot). Most modern shotguns are fitted with choke tubes. These screw into the muzzle and allow the shooter to change chokes. For example, i can switch from a cylinder choke for shooting slugs, to a skeet choke for shooting skeet, to a full choke for deer, instead of having to buy different barrels. I'm not sure how many years ago they came out with choke tubes, but a gun older than 20 years likely does not have choke tubes.

As a friendly tip, it might help people think better of you if you used periods.

jonathon
April 15, 2005, 12:13 AM
Just out of curiousity, why is it in gun mags you always see in the ad pages something about "legal full auto"? :rolleyes:

Hkmp5sd
April 15, 2005, 09:56 AM
the ad pages something about "legal full auto"?

Because some full autos are legal, if you are willing to fork over the money. I currently have three. If Gbodyolds really wants a full auto 10/22, he can buy a legal one. HERE (http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=5722&query=retrieval) is a full auto trigger group for the Ruger 10/22 that is for sale. Perfectly legal. Just do the Form 4 transfer and it is his.

guntotin_fool
April 20, 2005, 05:38 PM
Johnny Guest gave you some good advice. I will add somemore if I may.

As with many things asking a question "can I..".the answer is almost always yes you can, if you can afford to either pay the price or the time.

yes you can make almost anything full auto, or silenced or whatever if you through enough money at it. and I mean serious money too, If you do it the legal route, most NFA or full auto things are going for at least five grand, some a bit less most are a lot more, I personally know of the tranfer of a 1/4 million dollar minigun. YUP $250,000 for a toy. For a toy that will cost you about 1200 a minute to run, just for ammo, not counting replacement barrels etc.

There are also the questions of "should I ... which scare us immensly too, We are not here to make fun of, or belittle, nor intimidate, but some newbie questions just flat out scare us. I liken it to a highschool kid who says "I went 10 miles over the limit today...now I want to put a blown 454 in my chevy cavalier and really see what fast is."

Or that first taste of beer was good, let me drink a bottle of Jack Daniels and try to drive home.

Take your time ask questions and try to understand we want you here, we are just scared of being asked to break the laws sometimes.

Lawyer Daggit
April 20, 2005, 05:41 PM
Subject to where you are, what you are proposing to do is illegal.

Before they were restricted in Australia, I had a 10/22- the sear had worn down and would occasionally machine gun- having a magazine rip of like rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr- is a pointless exercise.

WillBrayjr
April 20, 2005, 06:32 PM
If you are looking for cheap full-auto, then buy an airsoft gun and be done with it ;)

jcnesqmba
April 21, 2005, 11:32 PM
Yeah full auto is fun to fantasize about but we are not in a war, and you can pull the trigger pretty fast if you tried. You might be better off with a slower rate of fire and save your self from being smoked while reloading (which does have a very distinct sound, and for BG's with some instinct, will snap at the opportunity).

444
April 22, 2005, 12:29 AM
This has been mentioned, but you can't trust a lot of what you read on the internet.
Per federal law, it is perfectly legal to have a Ruger 10/22 that is full auto. However, the only legal way for you to convert your 10/22 to full auto is by buying an already registered trigger. You can't just start tinkering around with your gun: you have to buy a registered trigger from an NFA dealer.

Edward429451
April 22, 2005, 10:22 AM
The only stupid question is the one you do not ask. He got good realistic answers too. Don't do it.

I suspect its just a phase he's going through. I went through the same phase, bought the Paladin book and never did it. It is an interesting read and has some real good pics in it. It's soo involved and soo illegal, and would be such a waste of ammo that thats all it turned out to be was an interesting read.

Gunzines will suck you into all sorts of weird ideas...and now, the net. :rolleyes:

Just keep reading and thinking and asking questions. And heeding these good peoples advice here!

3 weelin geezer
April 22, 2005, 10:42 AM
So those books actually have some good readable photos or are they merely poorly drawn experimental sketches on the back of a bar room napkin?

Edward429451
April 22, 2005, 11:07 AM
It's got step by step instructions, material list, machinist drawings & templates, comparison photos, test procedures, and all sorts of stuff. It's very detailed and actually looks viable but that don't mean squat.

It didn't look like anything someone could bang out in their basement, or at least not me. It's called 'The Ruger 10/22 exotic weapons System' I don't know if its still in print or not. Paladin Press.

To me, the best thing about this book is the spirit of resistance. "They" don't want me to have it and that just gives me the warm fuzzies all over. :D

Who needs FA anyway? Not me. I suspect it'd be novel and fun for a very short while and then gather dust only to be taken out to impress the friends once in awhile. Eh. Now 6000 dollars worth of ammo? That'd be useful.

Edward429451
April 22, 2005, 01:38 PM
Now that I think about it, they had a really nifty dual recoil spring setup on it. The 10/22 recoil spring (which holds the bolt in battary) only gives pressure on one side of the bolt, making it possible for the bolt to be just a little cockeyed and a potential for an out of battary detonation in FA mode?

Anyway, what it amounted to was an additional factory recoil spring on a newly fashioned or modified factory rod (can't remember). and a hole is drilled into the bolt charging handle for the front of the externally mounted additional one with a small angle iron screwed to the stock with its own hole for the rear to ride holding the right side mounted recoilspring in place. doubling the feed thrust, holding the bolt more straight, reducing recoil (?), and improving overall function (?) and safety. The second spring is easily removed by just pulling it back a little and levering it out of position. With it installed, you're pretty much limited to high velocity Stingers and such.

Even without the FA, this was a reasonable idea I thought. I was going to do this portion of it but, back burnered it as a 'probably don't need it for semi auto anyway' thing.

vidme
April 22, 2005, 02:06 PM
they know the real score. YOu can form a corporation that can do what you can't do as an individual, in some cases. This can help with the problem of your local cop not wanting to sign off on your requested permit. Even where states preclude individual ownership or manufacture, a guy with a Class II manufacturer's license can make full auto guns "for sale to law enforcement, the military, or other Class III dealers". That license costs a LOT less than an individually transferable full auto gun costs.

shaggy
April 22, 2005, 04:12 PM
talk to guys at Small Arms Review magazine they know the real score. YOu can form a corporation that can do what you can't do as an individual, in some cases. This can help with the problem of your local cop not wanting to sign off on your requested permit. Even where states preclude individual ownership or manufacture, a guy with a Class II manufacturer's license can make full auto guns "for sale to law enforcement, the military, or other Class III dealers". That license costs a LOT less than an individually transferable full auto gun costs.


The 'real score' has already been posted here. If one wants a full auto 10-22, the only real option is to pony up the $6-8k and buy one as a transferable unless you are actively engaged in the business of making and/or selling NFA weapons. If you get an SOT without intention or a bonafide attempt at engaging in business you risk losing the license and potentially facing charges for tax evasion. The cost of the licenses with ITAR fees runs about $2000/year and posties cannot be kept if you lose or relinquish the license. If you just get an 01/SOT, you still need a LEO demo letter to get any post-samples. Additionally, if state law precludes possession of NFA weapons, just forming a corporation and/or getting an SOT does not automatically override state law, there would still have to be a specific exemption in the law for SOT/licensees.

So lets do the math...

Option #1.
$2000/year license & fees x 4 years = $8000 + $150 for a 10-22 to convert. At the end of 4 years you've spent at least $8150 and all you have to show for it is a used post-sample 10-22 which is worth about $150, if that much. Keep in mind you have to actively engage in business and will probably have to spend even more money to get your business up and running. Additionally all necessary state and local zoning and business permits must be obtained, as well as getting a business location (unless you like having to open your home to BATF when they come to inspect).

Option #2.
Spend about $7k now to buy a transferable 10-22. In four years all you have to show is a transferable 10-22 which is still worth the $7k you paid, and more likely than not, worth significantly more (probably about $8k-9k by then).

johnkul007
May 7, 2005, 11:56 PM
Fear and Righteous Indignation are two paralyzers of educational discourse. It is one thing to question, another to put into motion. We all wonder about certain "razor's edge" activities. It does not mean they will be implemented. We can dream, can't we? We can even ask "out of ignorance", or simply out of the depths of Walter Mittie's gropings, without incurring the abrasive and flat snubbed-nose of those who won't go out in the rain for fear of getting mud on their shoes. I respect the point behind it all - certain actions are illegal and won't be supported. But I am offended that it often results in indignant rebuttals
rather than friendly chatter, and even sometimes humoring the information hound. It is up to each to plot his course. One need not supply information, but
one need not necessarily step up to the plate to deliver a face-slap just to announce that he alone is worthy of the golden prize of sinlessness.
Just a thought. Let education have a chance. Drop being an umpire.