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View Full Version : pistol grip auto for HD?


snacktrack
March 28, 2005, 10:34 PM
I dont know anything about shotguns, but I am thinking about getting a pistol grip automatic for home protection. I did some searches but figured it wouldnt hurt to ask my own specific questions.

From what I read many people recommend pumps, but some say that under stress a pump may not be the best thing.

I am really thinking I would like a semi-auto 12 ga. shotgun with a pistol grip. I would like something very high quality, and very reliable. This will only be for home protection. Any suggestions on models to look at? I appreciate your help in advance.

WillBrayjr
March 28, 2005, 10:46 PM
As far as semi-auto shotguns go, Benelli is as good as it gets! However I don't recommend using a pistol grip on an a semi-auto. Semi-auto shotguns are meant to be fired from the shoulder. You let a semi-auto recoil too much, it will malfunction. Go ahead and try your fancy 1911 when you get it, relax your entire arm and see what I mean! If you want a semi-auto shotgun get one with a 18in barrel and full stock.

BreacherUp!
March 28, 2005, 10:55 PM
Snacktrack, ditto on the Beneli. Are the pistol grips that your are talking about the ones that are in addition to the normal stock (meaning, your basic auto Beneli)? If so, they are very good for a few reasons:
1) Ergonomics. A lot less tweaking on the wrist then a standard stock.
2) Allows easier one handed operation. Much harder to hold a standard stock one handed then one with a pistol grip. Therefore, you can open doors, use flashlights, use the phone, cook grill cheese sandwiches, etc.
3) Less bruises under your cheek as your hand no longer uppercuts you.

snacktrack
March 28, 2005, 11:03 PM
Hey guys thanks for the responses. I have never fired a shotgun, I have no clue what to look for. I am trying to educate myself. In my mind a pistol grip is better for HD because of all the things BreacherUp lists. Also, I also guess a pistol grip to me seems more "tactical" and not a hunting shotgun.

So should I add a pistol grip to the standard stock? Can you guys recommend a certain model Benelli? I went on their website, very fine looking guns! But I have no idea which one is best for what I want. Everything on their site as far as info all pertains to hunting, and I have no desire to hunt. So, I dont know what model would also be best for my use.

Anyone have pics of what they use for HD?

BreacherUp!
March 28, 2005, 11:10 PM
On the Benelli site, go to military/special purpose. The stock I am talking about is on the "Pistol grip -M4." If I had to buy one, that shotgun in that configuration whould be it, hands down.

snacktrack
March 28, 2005, 11:13 PM
On the Benelli site, go to military/special purpose
aaaaaa, ok now i see. i was looking under just "shotguns" i didnt bother to see that there were shotguns elsewhere. ok this will give me something to sink my eyes into. these are what i was thinking of. thanks!

WillBrayjr
March 28, 2005, 11:17 PM
The new Benelli M2 Tactical. See it at: www.benelliusa.com. There you have everything you need. It's semi-auto, 18.5in barrel, pistol grip full stock.

chris in va
March 29, 2005, 02:39 AM
One thing I'll point out, to get shotgun skills you need to take it to the skeet/trap range. You may just want to start out with a basic pump 870 or something before blowing wads of $$$ on a fancy-shmancy Benelli semiauto with pistol grip.

That being said, I really do enjoy those turkey pistol grips. Very ergonomic.

Dave McC
March 29, 2005, 10:25 AM
Go shoot some shotguns before buying anything, please!! Hang out at the local range. Lots of nice folks will let a polite newbie try out their pet shotgun for a shot or two.

Walk before running.

A shotgun with just a PG is a Hollywood thing, not for real world emergencies.

A shotgun with a stock that includes a separate PG is not egregious, but offers little or no advantage over the regular style stock.

itsmike762
March 29, 2005, 09:52 PM
snacktrack, any wpn is hard to shoot well under stress. your fine motor skills will go straight to s**t if, god forbid, you would ever have the need to use deadly force. The only answer to that would be training. That being said, you can get a good pump gun with a standard stock AND a case or two of ammo for what you would pay for a tricked out autoloader. And I think everone here will agree with me on the fact that training is more important that gear any day of the week.

snacktrack
March 29, 2005, 10:19 PM
Well, the way I usually purchase things, is I buy the best first, and skip the steps leading up to it. I know it might not be the best thing to do in some instances. To me the money isnt an issue, I just want the best shotgun out there.

I really like the Benelli m4 and m2's What you guys say will influence my decision alot, but ultimately I am going to get what is the most appealing to me. What are some of the disadvantages of a semi-auto other than cost?

WillBrayjr
March 29, 2005, 10:20 PM
Agreed. When it comes to defense forget about what makes you look cool in front of the mirror and get what works. The Remington 870 12GA maybe a pump but it's a proven design that hasn't changed since it's introduction. ;)

WillBrayjr
March 29, 2005, 10:27 PM
Then why are you asking us for help when your mind is already made up :confused:

People who shoot shotgun with a pistol grip tend to let them recoil to keep the shotgun from hurting them.The bad thing about semi-autos is if you let them recoil too much they can and will jam.

snacktrack
March 29, 2005, 10:46 PM
Then why are you asking us for help when your mind is already made up
:) I didnt mean I dont need your help!! I definitely do, cause I have no idea what shotguns are good, and what arent.

If price wasnt an issue would you recommend a semi auto, or would you recommend a pump? Will, do you recommend just getting one with a regular shoulder stock?
Thanks for the help.

BreacherUp!
March 29, 2005, 11:46 PM
Snacktrack, no worries, most know what was on you mind. Yes, you cannot go wrong with a standard stock. However, I have shot both, and for tactical work, which is, in essence, home defense, the pistol grip is a great way to go. You won't find me say THE way, b/c anyone worth their salt will say "BS." For what you stated earlier, you wanted a pistol grip b/c of the other actions it allowed you to do, not b/c you looked cool. If that is correct, then you are not heading in the wrong direction. What others are saying here are true statements as well, but I think you have a good idea as to what you want. Don't worry about the recoil problem. I really have not seen a FTF problem when going balls-to-the-wall with a Benelli. Go fire one , and see what I'm talking about.

WillBrayjr
March 30, 2005, 08:14 AM
Thats why I recommended the Benelli M2 Tactical if price isn't an issue. It does have a pistol grip but also a full buttstock. Even though it's a Benelli we're talking about, if you shoot it Hollywood style you'll probably have a malfunction or two.

SnackTrack, Am I being hard on you, yes. Am I trying to be rude, no.

waltn
March 30, 2005, 08:53 AM
I have an earlier Benelli M121 Riot SG with extended Mag. Incredibly accurate with 00 Buck and Brenneke Slugs.

Had a gunsmith add a piece of wood to stock and trimmed to fit me. Looks like a Trap Stock with raised cheek piece. I can shoulder the SG in the dark and my point of aim is precisely where I am looking without making any adjustments.

Trap Stocks are often available from manufacturer or aftermarket.

Of the Eight (8) shotguns I have, the Benelli would be the one I would grab for HD or life threatening emergency.

snacktrack
March 30, 2005, 09:05 AM
Of the Eight (8) shotguns I have, the Benelli would be the one I would grab for HD or life threatening emergency.
Ok that is very reassuring. Somebody that has 8 shotguns, would choose the Benelli over the other ones.

SnackTrack, Am I being hard on you, yes. Am I trying to be rude, no.
I dont think you are being hard on me either. ;)

You won't find me say THE way, b/c anyone worth their salt will say "BS." For what you stated earlier, you wanted a pistol grip b/c of the other actions it allowed you to do, not b/c you looked cool.

Well, they DO look cool! I have to admit, but it also fits what I would like in a HD weapon. I am definitely going to see if they have any at the local range here to try out. I will have to bring someone who knows about shotguns, or else I am going to look like a fool.

One other question, what is the major differences between the M4 and M2's? And is Benelli made by HK or does HK just own them?

WillBrayjr
March 30, 2005, 09:30 AM
There's something more assuring. Countless SWAT Teams around the US use Benelli autoloaders. If I had the money I would buy one too as I perfer semi-auto firearms. Since your mind is basically made up, my only advise now is to get lots of ammo and practice practice practice. You can try firing from the hip, but you'll probably end up firing from the shoulder. Don't use anything like Remington managed recoil loads.

waltn
March 30, 2005, 09:55 AM
I forgot to ask/mention that pistol grips work well is certain situations...LE or Military, you can hold/fire one handed. For other uses, HD, shooting wildfowl, sporting clays, etc. the conventional grip works best and doesn't offend the PC group.

Certain models of Benelli (Black Eagle, etc.) have lot's of acessories like extra barrels, extended magazine tubes, pistol grip, etc. that you can interchange.

Recoil is comparible to Rem 1100 and requires very little maintenance.

Magazine Clamps, Flashlights, etc. will change point of impact and change balance.

Pumps are good and I have several Rem 870's but require more training to be able to use in high-stress environments...short stroking, etc.

Black Majik
April 3, 2005, 06:16 PM
If you're gonna go for a semi-auto shotgun my suggestion would be to go for the standard stock and extended magazine tube instead of the pistol gripped standard buttstock w/o the ext. mag. tube. The ext. mag. tube will allow for more rounds in the shotgun. I'd rather have more rounds than a PG buttstock.

The Benelli is a great choice, have fun.

Nnobby45
April 3, 2005, 07:31 PM
The Benelli is a recoil operated shotgun and is very reliable, but is the hardest recoiling semi-auto. The 11-87 is a fine shotgun, and is gas operated, which significantly reduces recoil. In fact, the 11-87 is the lightest recoiling Tactical shotgun.

The 11-87 or 1100 must be kept relatively clean to insure reliability, but that shouldn't be a problem. I keep my 870 clean. If the Benelli handles low recoil ammo, like Federal Tactical or Winchester Ranger, then it would be a fine choice. If you have to use full power Buckshot to get cycle reliability in the Benelli, also, then I'd prefer the lighter recoiling 11-87. To be honest, I'm not sure which one to buy if I decide to add a semi-auto.

Right now I'm an 870 man, and I wish my new Scattergun Tech Combat shotgun from Wilson would arrive with it's SureFire Tactical fore end and other features. :D

To answer your question, the pistol grip is more useful for Police Tactical Units where one might need to hang on to the shotgun with one hand while using the other to manage essential gear, open dooors, and so forth. An officer could shoot one handed in an emergency.

Folding stocks are useful for one purpose only, which is storing when space is limited. The folding stock is MUCH inferior when the shooting starts. Finally, stay away from pistol grip shotguns. Firing will need to be done from the hip and they're not easy to control. Pistol grip stocks are the worst for weapon retention. My vote: Standard stock. :)

snacktrack
April 4, 2005, 12:26 AM
hmmm interesting, ok now. maybe i have some reconsidering to do. so really there is no need for me to have a pistol grip in my home, unless i plan on going on a field trip to a SWAT mission? I did also plan on getting the mag extension. Still debating on whether to spend my refund check on one of these bad boys. i JUST bought a 1911. man, what an expensive vice.

Black Majik
April 4, 2005, 02:38 AM
well, if you plan to add a ext. mag then I believe you cant have a pistol gripped stock.

Its either one or the other in regards to a semi auto shotgun.

Go for the ext. mag tube. :)