PDA

View Full Version : S&W Shotgun


shojin
March 17, 2005, 04:10 PM
I recently noticed a Rem. 870 Police model at a local gunshop and upon closer inspection, I saw that it was a S&W Police model... it looked just like an 870. Does anyone have any knowledge of the S&W police shotgun in terms of how well made, reliability, ect.?

Thanks!

Matt

Dfariswheel
March 17, 2005, 08:28 PM
The S&W Model 3000 was actually made in Japan by Howa, for S&W.

These were very good quality guns, that were basically a "Clone" of the Remington 870 with an aluminum receiver.

After S&W's disastrous Model 916 shotgun fiasco, S&W was determined to get it right this time.

At the time, S&W was making a run at capturing the bulk of the American police market.
During this time, they already owned the police handgun market, and they were introducing ammunition, holsters, handcuffs, and other police gear.

They thought the shotgun would complete the line-up and they would have it all wrapped up.

Unfortunately, as good as it was, the Model 3000 was unable to stand up to the abusive treatment police shotguns get, and S&W was unable to make a dent in Remington's 95% plus of the market.

After a few years, S&W announced it was dropping the ammunition, holster, shotguns and other lines, and was "getting back to our main business of making handguns".

In addition to the Model 3000 pump, S&W also made a Model 1000 auto, a clone of the Remington 1100.

After S&W dropped the guns, Mossberg picked up the Howa-made guns for a year or two, before they too dropped it.
Apparently Howa imported the guns very briefly under their own name.

Although the Model 3000 was unable to stand up to police issue use, for a time the Model 3000 had somewhat of a cult following among individual police officers.

In the hands of a gun owner who takes care of his guns, the Model 3000 was and is an entirely satisfactory shotgun.

Gun Parts Corporation bought the S&W parts, and they still stock most parts and many police accessories like folding stocks, barrels, and magazine extensions.

So, while the S&W Model 3000 was an excellent gun, it just didn't have anything to offer over the Remington 870, and the aluminum receiver was unable to take the abuse in police service.

shojin
March 17, 2005, 11:14 PM
Thanks for the history lesson. There is a copy of the model 3000 for $300 at a northern cali store. I have been looking for a 870P and haven't seen one in any of the stores in my area. So, do you think the 3000 is worth 300 bucks?

Matt

Dfariswheel
March 18, 2005, 01:12 AM
It'd have to be in near 95-98% condition to be worth that.

arcticap
March 18, 2005, 01:16 AM
The value of this gun really depends on some very specific information about the condition and features of this particular piece which you fail to mention.
It may or not be worth it depending on whether it's police or civilian, close to new or somewhat used, or have features that are desirable to you like a wood stock or threaded choke. Generally speaking, many gun dealers do follow Blue Book pricing guidelines. Although I have personally seen both police and civilian versions at a cheaper price than you have mentioned, if this particular gun is a police model in 99% condition or a civilian model in 98% condition, it's probably worth it, according to Blue Book retail list prices.

shojin
March 18, 2005, 11:40 AM
Thanks for all the comments... it is a police model, it looks as new, wood stock on very good shape, I didn't notice if it had a threaded choke. My intended use for an 870 or clone is twofold: 1) berry picking gun in griz country and 2) home protection. I do like to shoot the guns I own, so I am a little concerned to read in Dfariswheel's post that the aluminum receiver did not stand up to hard use, even though I probably would not be able to wear it out... its more of a principle thing.

Matt

Dfariswheel
March 18, 2005, 05:04 PM
Don't take the aluminum receiver info wrong.

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with an aluminum shotgun EXCEPT, they don't seem to stand up very well to the abusive treatment that police subject them to.

Since the typical gun owner has to buy his own gun and tends to take better care of it, they'll last the average life-time, plus.

It's when you have a gun that's "owned" by everybody and nobody, that the aluminum guns have problems.
The police gun is usually assigned to a CAR not to an individual officer, and since he isn't really responsible for it, it gets abused.

As long as you take even moderate care of an aluminum shotgun you'll have no problems, and frankly, I'd personally rather have an aluminum S&W Model 3000 clone of the Remington 870, than I would a Winchester 1300 or a Mossberg.

Again, the S&W is more or less in line on price, and the gun is a excellent model for most shooters.

If you're the type person who never cleans the gun, and is in the habit of using it as a pry bar or a battering ram, it isn't.

If the gun is a police model, and is in the condition described, it'd be an excellent gun.

The only better deal would be if you can find a used Remington Police gun.

shojin
March 22, 2005, 08:42 PM
Thanks for the clarification Dfariswheel... when I rack the pump, I thought the action was very smooth, almost slick. I'd be interested in knowing why teh S&W 870 clone became a cult favorite with certain officers? Any idea?

Matt

shojin
March 22, 2005, 08:42 PM
..

Dfariswheel
March 22, 2005, 09:01 PM
Primarily because everybody else was using a department issued, battered and beat up Remington.

Some people just like to be different, and for some reason the S&W was considered to be "cool".
If you bought your own shotgun, you could have the very latest "in" piece of equipment, while everyone else was carrying the same 870 every Tom, Dick, and Harry had.

Also, the S&W was lighter than the Remington.

shojin
March 23, 2005, 12:25 AM
Any thoughts how the S&W might stand up to periodic practice with full power Brenneke loads?

Dfariswheel
March 23, 2005, 01:53 AM
Certainly as good as any other shotgun.

Howa didn't and doesn't build junk, and the Model 3000 IS after all a fairly close "clone" of the Remington 870.

Like the 870, the 3000's bolt locks into the steel barrel extension.

The Model 3000's "problem" was that like a lot of other shotguns it just didn't stand up too good to a abusive bunch of Yay-hoo street cops using it as a pry bar, battering ram, and night stick.

Look, the bottom line here, is if I was looking for a high-quality shotgun, and I found a S&W 3000 in good shape at a good price, I wouldn't hesitate to grab it.

PLUS, Gun Parts Corporation sells police barrels for the 3000 for about $53.00, and magazine extensions for less than $25.00.

THAT'S CHEAP.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=1980z3000

shojin
March 23, 2005, 12:24 PM
Thanks... I think I'm sold on it.