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Nightcrawler
October 19, 2000, 03:15 PM
As a budding subgun enthusiast, I have a few questions I"m hoping some of you can answer for me.

-Is the MAC-10 select fire still in production? If so, who buys them?

-Tell me about the British Sterling submachine gun. I've been able to find very little on this gun. (I did, however, learn that it's still used by the Jamaca Defense Force.) What was it's rate of fire? When was it in service?

-Tell me about the Smith and Wesson Model 76. What caliber was it? I heard the Navy used it for a while. How did it compare to the M3 Grease Gun?

Thanks for your help!

4V50 Gary
October 19, 2000, 07:04 PM
I don't believe that the Mac-10 is produced anymore in the full-auto version, but I could be wrong. Somebody?

Regarding the Sterling, there's an excellant book which will floor you with information. Check out Peter Laider & David Howroyd's The Guns of Dagenham. Laider is a Australian who was trained as an armourer the old fashion way (can you say Gunsmith?). Anyway, the book is published by Collectors' Grade Publications of Canada (you can try http://www.addall.com ) and like other books in the series, is well worth the money.

The Sterling was designed by George Patchett with the first prototypes being developed in 1942. It was tested during the war and adopted post-war. Perhaps the best version of the Sterling, the Mk4 was adopted in 1955 (which also used the lost wax process for manufacture of some parts). Rate of fire was approximately 550 rpm (this varies according to cleanliness of the weapon, strength of the ammunition).

The S&W Model 76 was derived from the Swedish Model K. It is a 9mm open bolt smg (550-600 rpm). While it was used in limited quantities by U.S. Special Forces, it was never formally adopted. With regards to comparing it to the 45 ACP M3/M3A1, we're talking apples & oranges. BTW, the mags are a real pain to load (but S&W really came up with a nifty loader which I've tried. It works but it was never a production item). S&W has about 50 or so new ones still in storage.

For general information about these guns, I suggest reading W.H.B. Smith's Small Arms of the World which is now in its 12th edition. The latest was edited and revised by the late Dr. Clinton Ezell. Getting a copy would be well worth the effort.

[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited October 19, 2000).]

Daniel Watters
October 19, 2000, 08:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 4V50 Gary:
Regarding the Sterling, there's an excellant book which will floor you with information. Check out Peter Laider & David Howroyd's The Guns of Dagenham. Anyway, the book is published by Collectors' Grade Publications of Canada and like other books in the series, is well worth the money.

[/quote]


Actually, you can order direct from Collector Grade Publications (http://www.collectorgrade.com). Peter Laider has a new volume on the Sten, which should make a good companion to the Sterling book.

M1911
October 20, 2000, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nightcrawler:

-Tell me about the Smith and Wesson Model 76. What caliber was it? I heard the Navy used it for a while. How did it compare to the M3 Grease Gun?
[/quote]

It's 9mm. The US military asked S&W to make a .45 version. They declined (idiots). It fires from an open bolt. Selector includes safe, single shot, and full-auto. Trigger weight is quite heavy. Sights are relatively crude. I found it to have a bit of muzzle climb, but then I'm not very experienced with full-auto, so it might just have been my form. Supposed to be pretty reliable.

M1911

Byron
October 20, 2000, 10:32 AM
If you are interested in the S&W 76, look at the MK760. The parts are interchangeable, and you can buy the MK for about half the cost of the S&W. Excellent info on both guns at http://www.softcom.net/users/n7jzu/page0005.htm

Lance Gothic
October 20, 2000, 11:30 PM
Dear Nightcrawler,
There's a Larry Magill video entitled MACHINE GUN FUN (#1) which shows demonstrations of the items you've mentioned. John Wayne in "McQ" 1974 at Blockbuster or other video sources.
The list below will give you some help. Jane's Small Arms of the World shows the weapons you've asked about. Contact the Smith & Wesson library; they'll send you a copy of the Model 76 manual.
There are several gun ranges across the country which offer machine gun shooting. Heckler & Koch have an auto weapons course. Various gun distributors offer police departments the availability of shooting various weapons. And then there's the SHOT SHOW.
http://www.fjvollmer.com/machineguns.htm http://www.machinegunshoot.com http://www.gunvideo.com/ http://www.eldred.demon.co.uk/reme-museum/arms/submachg/armsmg1.htm http://www.eldred.demon.co.uk/reme-museum/arms/submachg/armsmg2.htm http://www.moviegunservices.com/attpages/machgun.html
Other contacts should include the British Admiralty. And booksellers dealing with the gun enthusiast market.

imti
October 23, 2000, 03:48 PM
Dear nightcrawler,
on the sterling, I have a a little info. The locally made version used by our Indian Armed forces is known here as the 9mm Sten Carbine Mk-5 with a 34 round magazine as I remember and adoption of this as well as other weapons reflects our British colonial heritage to some extent. The Main Battle Rifle (MBR) till recently was a semi-auto version of the FN LAR, the LMG is basically a BREN chambered for the 7.62 NATO and the sub gun is.. well, now you know.Presently, following the trend of other nations,our army has opted for the Beretta 92 to replace the 9mm Browning Hi-power which is still in service. There was a move to adopt the Czech CZ-75 earlier but I guess the Brass Hats liked to think that adopting the Beretta would put troops on par with others... I've heard of some bored Army pistoleros shooting pigeons with the Berettas near the Range when punching paper paled.
The logic of the side mounted magazine is "to facilitate changing magazines when you are face-in-the-mud" according to an old 'Havildar' or Indian Army Sergeant who had extensive combat experience with the Sterling as well as it's predecessors, the Sten gun Marks 1-4. Having fired almost all the Marks of sten-guns courtesy the police and Dad's Army service days, I can vouch for the fact that it IS easier to replace the Sterling's mag than an MP-40s (Indian Army World War II relic hung as a decoration in Dad's Officer's Mess-some decoration!)on the firing line and easier to draw a bead than doing it sideways when you are trying to become part of mother earth, face-down in live fire excercise. Fact is, it's a clumsy weapon to look at, and lefties hate it but it feels just right to most people including my kid-sister who also tried it. Since most of Dad's Army Doctor colleagues hated loud popping noises next to their learned eardrums, I got to fire mucho ammo from their (unfired) compulsory quota, and was thanked profusely for sparing them the agony of tintinnitus and a visit to their ENT colleague (whom I visited). The sterling sub was issued here as a logistical substitute for the "ancient" (?) M-1 carbine and Browning Hi-power (which required much more training than the army had patience for) for rear echelon troops like medicos, Tank crew, cooks and porters/mule drivers and so on. According to Dad who used it in combat( he went thru the 1965 and 1971 wars with the Pakis- no offence to them)the sub is basically a sound gun, though, as with all subs, the magazines need to be carefully kept- damaged lips turn it into a single-shot-jam-prone piece that is not conducive to long life. Perhaps thats why they are issuing AK-47s and 56s in lieu of the Sterling Variant to the troops here.
imtinungsang@yahoo.com

fal308
October 24, 2000, 08:43 AM
Thanks imti for a different perspective on the Sterling (besides a USA perspective) and welcome to TFL :D

Bart Noir
October 25, 2000, 02:12 PM
Imti, thanks for the info. It is interesting to hear from other parts of the world, especially since I have some idea of the combat experiance of Indian troops, both against and with the Brits. Yeah, some of us know the difference between Indian and Native American :) If you have time, how about your view of the long-lasting Indian struggle to design a local auto-rifle and its ammo. Congrats on your ability to be respectful to Paki's and here's hope that there never again be a real war between you.
Bart
"War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left."