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Shockwave
September 19, 2000, 11:28 PM
Hi. I'm new here, but I have some questions about the new small-caliber PDW's coming out.

The FN P90 was first, firing the new 5.7x28mm HV round.

PROS: Fifty round magazine, ergonomic, lightweight, tritium-powered sight (doesn't need batteries), reliable.

CONS: Expensive, I heard the rounds scatter if you drop a partially loaded magazine, jamming the gun, and it looks like the stock is a little too short for 6'2" guys like me.


HK PDW. This is a new one. Go to http://www.hkpro.com to read about it. It's about the size of a Desert Eagle, and has a folding foregrip. The magazine, either a 20 or a 40 round stick mag, feeds into the pistol grip. It comes with a hologram sight that requires no batteries, and has a retractable stock. It's even more compact than the P90, and negates the need for a seperate pistol, becuase they could make a holster for this bad boy if they wanted to. Plus, I heard the 4.8x30mm round it fires is even better than the P90 round, but I'm not sure. Whaddayall think?

fal308
September 20, 2000, 08:17 AM
No experience with them as us peons cannot buy them here in the USA :(. SAR has a review of the HK in their newest issue.
I hope to be able to handle one of the HKs in a couple of weeks at Knob Creek.

Dead
September 20, 2000, 04:40 PM
a post sample P90 for $10,000 including 1500 rounds of ammo!!

Sounds like a BIT much!

------------------
Dead [Black Ops]

markd
September 20, 2000, 06:47 PM
Here is a link of a guy who got to fire one. http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/Forum33/HTML/000064.html

markd

ctdonath
September 21, 2000, 11:15 AM
Being a new item, I'm sure they'll redesign the magazine to stop the scattered-ammo-when-dropped problem.

Somewhere I saw a P90 listed for sale for vaguely around $2000. Unfortunately, civilians can't buy them in the USA.

full auto m11 swd
October 5, 2000, 04:50 PM
I emailed Phil Dater at Gemtech. They make the suppressor for the FN P90.

At 09:13 PM 9/21/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>I thought you would be very knowledgable about the FN P90 and might provide
>some insight. The rumor is if the 50 round magazine is not full and the
>weapon is dropped that the remaining rounds will scatter in the magazine.
>This results in a failure to fire. Is there any truth to this? I fired the
>FN P90 during a SWAT Round-Up in Orlando but I didn't drop it to see what
>what happen :)

I don't know, as it has never happened to us. I sincerely doubt that this
rumor is true.


Phil...

*********************************************
Philip H. Dater , MD

RevJoel
October 13, 2000, 12:15 PM
Several years ago when the P90 was introduced, my SG unit was doing a "familiarization tour" of the FN facility in Columbia, SC. We got to handle and play with the P90. It's nifty for what it is designed as--basically a REMF weapon. I still have the promo brochure that we were given.

Pax Christi

Rev. Joel

George Hill
October 14, 2000, 04:57 PM
I may be wrong - but I think that the round the new HK PDW fires is the .224 BOZ round - and it was developed prior to the FN cartridge.
The HK round is much better than the FN round - a compairison of the the two points that out clearly.
What is not clear, is the launchers for these bullets.
Some folks think the P90 is the pinical of small arms evolution.
Some think it rather silly.
What do I think? Its formidable for certain - but I think the PDW is the better design. It has better ability and fewer liabilties. You can give the PDW to a group of apes (or gunslingers) and they will be able to use it to its best capacity and even keep it clean.
The P90 requires a "Class" an some things are not all together clear with its functions.
I still dont get the whole rotating shells in the magazine thing... Why?
I think Stembridge's P90 looking Ingrams were better guns.
I like the FN's gunsite... but prefer the HK's "use what you like" rail.
Now - with out firing both together and seriously testing these...

The PDW, with an optical gunsight, with the stock extended and the shooter doing his thing... I suspect the PDW to be more accurate. Simple, more powerful, and with better accuracy; the PDW is by far the better firearm.

fal308
October 15, 2000, 04:59 PM
From Oct. issue of SAR.
"...The PDW is chambered for a new cartridge, the 4.6x30mm,developed as a joint venture between H&K and Royal Ordnance Radway Green...
The HK PDW fires a new proprietary round, the 4.6x30mm nontoxic cartridge, which has not been standardized by any NATO country as of the time of this writing. The cartridge fires a solid steel sopper plated 24.7 gr bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2379 fps, resulting in a muzzle evergy of 312 ft-lb. For comparison, the standard British military 9x19mm cartridge has a muzzle velocity of 1299 fps and a muzzle energy of430 ft-lb. These simple numbers, however, are somewhat misleading and do not fully explain why a smaller, lighter projectile may prove superior to a larger, heavier one. The 4.6mm bullet has a high ballistic coefficient and is fired at a hight velocity than the 9mm, which gives it a flatter trajectory and greater range. Teh standard NATO CRIST target (1.6mm of titanium and 20 layers of Kevlar at 50 meters The 4.6 bullet on the other hand, will defeat it at over 100 meters, with sufficient velocity to transfer 85 ft-lb. of energy into and completely perforate a 150mm thich block of ordnance gelatin behind the armor barrier. This greater terminal performance also has to do with the fact that the 4.6mm bullet is copper plated solid steel while the 9mm bullet is copper with a lead core. We should note that H&K states that the PDW's 4.6mm bullet will also penetrate NATO's CRISAT armoured personnel target at 200 meters. Although we cannot dispute the claim, the ability of so light a bullet to inflict an incapacitating wound after having passed through 1.6mm of titanium and 20 layers of Kevlar at 200 meters is questionable. H&K and Radway Green are also developing tracer, frangible, JHP, training(Solid copper bullet), blank and plastic training ammunition for the PDW."

George Hill
October 16, 2000, 10:54 AM
"developed as a joint venture between H&K and Royal Ordnance"
Thats the .224 BOZ isn't it?

fal308
October 16, 2000, 12:00 PM
No, the .224 Boz is a separate cartridge. There is a side by side photo showing the comparison between the 4.6x30mm, 57x28mm, .224 Boz and the 5.56x45mm cartridges. The 5.56 is by far the tallest of these (OAL) and the Boz is the shortest. The 4.6 is similar in height to the 5.7 but has a larger tapered shoulder and the case length is slightly taller.

Charmedlyfe
October 16, 2000, 05:54 PM
The SRT I was on used P90s. I can tell you that, if you drop a partially loaded mag, you WILL be picking up those rounds. The P90 feels like a toy, and you REALLY have to watch your forward grip, or you'll cut your hand off with LOTS of little bits'o'metl.....
No, I don't like it (I don't trust little bullets), but I have to say the following:

1) it is very accurate, especially with a dot sight. You can empty a whole mag FA and stay inside of a 4" circle at seven yards. No recoil.
2) the rounds cut through angleiron like a knife through melted butter. awesome. scary.
3) the weapon appears to function well, but we could never fire a whole lot of ammo. Too expensive.

RevJoel
October 17, 2000, 10:07 AM
One thing always stuck in my mind about the P90. FN's factory rep told us that the "projectile is ballistically unstable in any media; other than air." If you hit soft tissue, like you're supposed to, ain't no tellin' where or what the pill is going to do.

Pax Christi

Rev. Joel+