View Full Version : A new meaning for 'take out the cat'
March 8, 2005, 06:24 PM
I have to say, I am all for it. :)
March 8, 2005, 06:59 PM
Song birds are protected and anyone whose cat is caught killing song birds are held responsible. So, if a cat was on my property and I knew it was killing the song birds, then I feel it is my duty to help protect them.
Not to mention, it's fun to shoot cats, they are the devil. :D
March 8, 2005, 08:34 PM
March 8, 2005, 08:53 PM
Cats have been chasing and killing birds... it's just what cats do. Do they threaten the balance of nature of songbird reproduction compared to the other various factors that effect the population of said "songbirds".
If you saw a cat killing a sparrow or starling, is that enough justification to kill said cat?
I remember my mom fed the birds for over 30 years, kept journals of what she saw, etc..... One day a hawk plucked a bird off one of her feeders, she freaked and started to rant, I found it amusing, reminding her that that's the way of it. Felines can not stop chasing and killing birds no more than that hawk could.
So lets not all traipse down the do gooders highway and try and save mother nature from herself. It don't work.
March 8, 2005, 10:44 PM
Stray dogs are known to kill HUMANS, and yet hunting them was not proposed.
Don't tell me about "self-defense" is always a right; we're talking hunting here.
I find the proposal a severe misplacement of priorites.
March 8, 2005, 11:13 PM
Do they threaten the balance of nature of songbird reproduction compared to the other various factors that effect the population of said "songbirds".YES. Cats are not native and they definitely affect the population of native birds AND OTHER WILDLIFE such as lizards, snakes and assorted other small animals in a major and negative way. The "messing with mother nature" was when cats were imported--not killing them off now. It's not a matter of saving mother nature from herself, it's a matter of saving her from those who allowed feral cats to proliferate.Stray dogs are known to kill HUMANS, and yet hunting them was not proposed. ...we're talking hunting here.Exactly--the regulation of animal populations is a matter for the game commision--who regulates hunting. Therefore a hunting law would seem to be the ideal way to regulate the population of feral cats. Self-defense, as you pointed out, has little or nothing to do with hunting or the regulation of animal populations.
BTW, in some areas of the U.S. hunters ARE encouraged to kill feral dogs and cats so I'm not sure where you're going with that...
Before anyone starts to hyperventilate, I am not a cat hater--in fact I own one. But it's a pet so I control its movements. It stays inside. That keeps it from getting run over, catching diseases, irritating the neighbors, killing birds, lizards or other wildlife, getting chewed on by other cats, chewing on other cats, or getting eaten by feral dogs or coyotes. I guess that seems pretty unreasonable to some...
Just for fun, here's a similar thread from THR. Interesting comments by Mr. Art Eatman on down the page a bit.
March 8, 2005, 11:38 PM
Rich Lucibella.....Beautiful cat Rich, it dam near looks alive. Maybe it is! Great shot for the "Big Top"!! What part of the country were you in?
March 8, 2005, 11:47 PM
this is just a little wierd dont you think. i've taken shots at stray toms in our yard before but ammending laws so that cats can be killed on the basis that they eat too many birds seems a little bit absurd.
has estimated that between 7.8 million and 219 million birds are killed by rural cats in Wisconsin each year.
could you be a little more vague please theres quite a margin there.
March 9, 2005, 01:07 AM
theres quite a margin there.Yeah, but even the small side of the wide margin is way too large.
BTW, if you check out the link I posted you will find that there is already an unenforced law on the books in Wisconsin REQUIRING hunters to kill feral cats.
March 9, 2005, 07:10 AM
Like most statistics quoted in the press, the number of songbirds actually killed by cats is a lot smaller than quoted numbers. When I was in Minnesota years ago there was a big flap about stray cats and songbirds. I asked how the number of dead birds was arrived at and was told they took the estimated number of stray cats, assumed their diet consisted wholly of songbirds and multiplied by the number of birds a cat could eat in a year.
Loss of habitat in the wintering areas is much more of a threat to migratory songbirds than stray cats.
I am in favor of controlling feral cats but don't think pet cats should necessarily be kept indoors all the time as this is not their nature, any more than it would be for dogs.
March 9, 2005, 10:01 AM
Estimates between 7.8 million and 219 million songbirds killed by cats.
Pure & unadulterated = B.S.
Loss of habitat, availability of natural foods, severity of wintering conditions, disease, natural mortality rates, land management practices, agricultural pesticides, all have a significant effect within populations of birds. The #'s taken by cats are minuscule by comparison.
For those who feel the need to kill cats, reminds me of a Three Stooges skit, where the punch line is - For duty & humanity!
March 9, 2005, 10:47 AM
He was killed in New Mexico. Took two rounds from a 4" 500 Linebaugh and ran 100 yards to another tree. Put a 45-70 thru his chest, frontally, and he still managed to come down and go another 50 yards.
One tough cat. One BAD shoot. :(
March 9, 2005, 02:26 PM
It's always fun to see said Hawk pick up the cat which is trying to get the song birds... besides a hawk would have a better meal of a cat... And equlibrium would then be re-established :D
March 9, 2005, 02:47 PM
Dang it, does every thread have to turn into a politically correct argument? Jeesh. Cats kill birds, peole kill cats. So what?
Cats don't always kill for the food ya know. The sport hunt them songbirds a lot and thats a capital offense in my book. :D
March 9, 2005, 08:38 PM
It's estimated that there are a million feral cats in Wisconsin.
7.8 million songbirds killed a year only requires that each cat kill 8 songbirds in an ENTIRE YEAR.
Are you guys actually saying that you think a feral cat living off what it can find or kill wouldn't kill 8 songbirds in a 365 day period?
I know well fed house cats that do that--and they're just killing for fun.don't think pet cats should necessarily be kept indoors all the time as this is not their natureMy cat is afraid of the outdoors because she's never been outside. You know, to keep herfrom getting run over, catching diseases, irritating the neighbors, killing birds, lizards or other wildlife, getting chewed on by other cats, chewing on other cats, or getting eaten by feral dogs or coyotes. I guess that seems pretty unreasonable to some...Anyway, as far as I can tell, nearly ALL pets are disinclined to have their movement restricted. If you take the approach that restricting the movement of a pet should be avoided because it is "against their nature" then you pretty much have to say that HAVING pets should be avoided because it is not the nature of animals to be pets and/or have their movement restricted.
March 10, 2005, 08:39 PM
Although not a cat lover, I am against this. I think it only puts gun ownership and hunting in a bad light. Now the anti gun nuts have one more reason to win people over to there side. Something like this helps PETA.
March 11, 2005, 05:38 PM
I'm a cat lover, and I would agree with this law under ONE condition, they eat what they kill :D.
Now, having said that, I don't think there should be a "hunting" law. Maybe a law that says that you can keep down the population by shooting them when they get too overpopulated but not just for sport.
We have ferel cats in my neck of the woods (got bite by one also and had to get rabie shots) and as long as they aren't bothering my things or my uncles (dogs, the shed, etc..) and aren't creating a problem then I just don't pay attention. If they start to become a problem, then I lower the population again.
But, I try to make the most humane shot possible so no pain or slow death.
March 11, 2005, 06:04 PM
If you saw a cat killing a sparrow or starling, is that enough justification to kill said cat?
Well, I said that protecting song birds that are illegal to kill was my justification. The European Starling and certain sparrows are not protected in Pa, so if a cat was killing them, I would wait until it was done, then shoot it for being on my property. :p
March 12, 2005, 10:26 PM
Where I live, all dogs and cats are required to have a collar, a license and a rabies tag, they are also restricted to being confined to the owner's property or on a leash.
Any animal without a collar is open season, if with a collar and tags, it may be captured and turned over to animal control, they call the registered phone number once, if no response in 2 days they are killed.
If you cannot capture the animal, you can kill it if on your property.
March 12, 2005, 10:42 PM
I once worked for...a federal agency concerned with the well-being of birds and various other critters. Once in a great while, and normally with great public protest, this agency would commence to whacking feral cats on the portions of public land it controlled.
Feral cats (and "feral" is the key word - not your neighbor's cat at your bird feeder) are not pets that simply aren't at home - they're housecats that have adapted to living in the wild and were very possibly born in the wild. They're not a native species to north america (there were no herds of domestic shorthairs roaming the plains with buffalo when the white man showed up), and they cause serious trouble for many of our native species.
I like cats. Owned several, will probably own them again. I'd prefer not to shoot them. But I understand that sometimes it has to be done. Spaying, neutering, collaring and controlling pets is a responsibility of pet owners. More of that would lead to less shooting of feral cats and dogs.
March 12, 2005, 11:56 PM
Wandering by from THR...
Look: The animal shelter folks trapped some 72 feral cats in an area of maybe a thousand acres or less, of rural and wooded land including farmland fields. I don't know if that's a common sort of number or high or low. Still, a cat to every 14 acres doesn't strike me as unduly high. I imagine the combination of birds, mice, squirrels and rabbits in 14 acres could support one cat quite easily.
Regardless, it's a potential for any similar landform. So, how many thousand-acre equivalent areas are there in Wisconsin? Dig out your atlas and do some reasonable guesstimating.
The 1995 article claimed 100 songbirds per cat per year. That's two birds a week, and I gay-ron-dang-tee you that's entirely doable, entirely likely. That's based on my own observations of housecats and birds in town, in the country and in relative wilderness. We even have feral cats in the darned desert! FWIW, I watched a neighbor's cat in downtown Austintatious do in about three mockingbirds a week, for a couple of years.
Any way you slice it, the numbers are scary when you multiply it by the number of states with songbird nesting areas...
Around my wife's house in south Georgia, we used to commonly have robins, cardinals, brown thrashers and poor wills. Time of year varied, of course. I've seen almost none in recent years.
IMO, it's more than just habitat losses...
March 15, 2005, 05:01 PM
The hazard in killing a domestic cat, feral or otherwise, is that someone like
me might see you do it. Then YOU would become the quarry. If you must do it, I would advise you to at least file the front sight down on your weapon. That way it won't hurt so bad when I ram it up your A$$.
I doubt that bird killing has anything to do with your motivations to use domestic cats for target practice, but I would just point out that over twice the number of birds you quoted as being killed by feral cats die every year from starvation. Even with that, it doesn't look like we are in danger of running out of birds of any type - other than ones driven to extinction by humans. By the way, cats don't hunt for fun; humans are the only species that does that.
March 15, 2005, 05:17 PM
Been watching this thread develop and I must say, DR_MAX and I think alike.
March 15, 2005, 05:22 PM
Sure am glad (for one of us) that you weren't around when I killed my last Bobcat. I do it whenever possible on my lease, as they particularly like young deer (and the calves you'll be buyng at the WinnDixie next season).
Killing for fun? How about killing more than you'll return to eat.....MANY predators do that; including cats, known to hunt on full stomachs. So, if they have a food source on the ground and insist on killing another fresh, can I call it "killing for fun", too?
the domestic free-ranging cat is actually a harmful exotic species, like a zebra mussel with name tags.
Note the operative term, "free ranging", there? If you keep your cat housed, leashed or enclosed, you have every right to expect his safety. When you let him range onto your neighbor's property, he's the predator; Farmer Jones is simply defending his own property rights.
March 15, 2005, 06:24 PM
The reason that we keep the herds of ferels down here is due to disease (including rabies but that is rare here but not zero chance of and it only takes one to spread it really quickly) and the destruction of property. I could care less about the songbirds (we have mainly crows, ravens, and some really nasty jays).
I don't worry about the birds that I love to watch, the Ospry, Hawks and Eagles eat the ferels anyway :D.
I am a cat lover, and as such my cats are "nipped and tucked" if you get my drift. As a responsible cat owner I make sure that they have shots and are tagged (and we don't have to tag cats here). It's the people that aren't responsible that create this problem, and unfortunatly, when the herds get too big they have to be thinned.
(And if you're wondering why we don't do the trap, "nip and tuck" thing is because the humane society and animal control won't do anything and the society that tried it can't keep up and can't get good rates for the "nip and tuck")
March 15, 2005, 09:10 PM
By the way, cats don't hunt for funWhat do YOU call it when a well-fed animal kills an animal that isn't threatening it--and then doesn't eat it?The hazard in killing a domestic cat, feral or otherwise, is that someone like me might see you do it. Then YOU would become the quarry.If you ever attack someone because they shot a feral cat, I hope it's me. I'd see it as a wonderful opportunity to get right to the heart of the matter.
See, it's not the cats' fault that they are in the situation they're in. It's the fault of people who let them run free and reproduce at will--strangely enough, these people generally operate under the premise that they are being humane. If people took responsibility for the animals they call their pets, there would be no feral cats. Unfortunately, it's rarely possible to properly punish the people who are really responsible for the feral cat problem.
March 15, 2005, 11:35 PM
Er, uh, DR_MAX, one thing about out in the boonies: I'll see you first. I've been at it a whole lot longer. :D
I won't claim I can track a twelve-point buck back to where he was born, but I'm not shabby at reading sign. When you find a covey of dead quail, cat tracks, and only one quail eaten, you'll figure out that there's more to a cat's killing than pure necessity.
And when Darling Precious kitty-cat exits the door of the "owner's" house, it's instantly a hunter. All you have to do is watch and it's quite obvious, given you know anything at all about an animal's body language.
This is one of those arenas where I don't pay much attention to other people's opinions. I far and away have more trust in what I've learned from watching a whole bunch of critters during the course of many, many decades of wandering in swamps, woods and desert--sometimes hunting, lots of times "just lookin'".
Most folks look, but don't see...
March 16, 2005, 12:39 PM
An animal that the owner let's run wild is not at falt ,the owner is .it is unfortunete that the animal is the one to suffer the consiquences.as usual the rude incosiderate bastards are a burden to the good polite people and this is not a new problem it has been going on forever.I have a neigbor who when he walks his dog on other neigbors lawns leaves then hot steeming piles of dog dropings .he does this when no one is watching and denies it when confronted about it.I suspect he may have an accident in the near future .
March 16, 2005, 01:46 PM
You're "staff" - staff of what? The Flat Earth Society? Apparently you don't even know the difference between domestic cats and bobcats. If you are actually having problems with domestic cats at large, you can put out traps and take them to the animal shelter or the nearest vet - assuming you have one or the other. As for the moron who scribed the article to which you allude: I will be dealing with him as a separate issue. In case you haven't figured it out yet, there are aboubt the same percentage of cat haters amoung the vetertinary population as any other; and by the way, the bottom
quarter of veterinary classes tend to gravitate to the state jobs.
At any rate, I suppose it is futile to argue with a cat hater. The only way they can be converted is to actually own, and have a relationship with a cat.
You can try to rationalize your degenerate point of view any way you like, but you aren't fooling anyone. We know why you like to shoot pet cats and
can only hope you will graduate to serial killing as a way of gratifying your urges. That way you may eventually get your cumuppence.
Have a nice day
[after the fact edit by author removed for direct attack against Forum Member. Post remains as originally recorded. Rich Lucibella]
March 16, 2005, 02:27 PM
You can try to rationalize your degenerate point of view any way you like, but you aren't fooling anyone. We know why you like to shoot pet cats and can only hope you will graduate to serial killing as a way of gratifying your urges. That way you may eventually get your cumuppence.No cat hater here. Don't "like to shoot pet cats". Never killed a feral cat in my life; I don't have a problem with them in my neck of the woods. But I do understand the reality of feral cats and dogs for many....it's not pretty and the "Kitty-Lovers" out there don't seem to be doing a helluva lot about it other than whining over little "Fluffy". And I certainly never had "relations" with a cat, though I had been known to lay down with a few real dogs in my early years. :D
Based on the above facts, I can't be "rationalizing" my "degenerate point of view" (since I don't have any) or "gratifying" my "urges" (since I don't have any in regards to cats).
Trap 'em and get 'em off to the local "Humane" Shelter? Ummmm, there's a real solution. Little feral "Whiskers" will certainly find a loving home. :rolleyes:
I am truly pleased that you chose to direct this at me. You see, when it comes to violations of Forum Policy (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/faq.php?faq=rules_catecory#faq_forum_rules) I don't generally offer second chances. But, since you only attacked me personally, you just got exactly that....a second chance; suggest you use it wisely.
March 16, 2005, 02:29 PM
Wow DrMax, you sure have a lot of hate showing yourself, to be pulling a rightious Ralph as you are...Whoa.
You might have a semblance of a point to make, but I think you killed it when you showed your teeth. Prolly never been out of the city, huh?
I got nothing against cats, but they have their downside. They're not to be held above human habitation I would think. How could you hold the cat blameless for going into someones property and oh, killing their chicken or something and the owner shooting the cat for it? (I used to live on a farm and watched a cat finish off a chicken)
If you have a precious housepet, thats ok. But protect it by keeping it in the house. You cant kill its natural urges, and cant reasonably blame a landowner for taking out the cat who defiled his property in any way either.
If ART or Rich took out my cat for doing whatever on their property, I'd feel like I still owed them an apology for not controlling my animal.
March 16, 2005, 04:12 PM
If ART or Rich took out my cat for doing whatever on their property, I'd feel like I still owed them an apology for not controlling my animal.
Same here as the same would go for my dog if it got out and threatened others or destroyed property.
If you are actually having problems with domestic cats at large, you can put out traps and take them to the animal shelter or the nearest vet
Animal Shelter won't do anything and won't take them. They will only take house cats or cats that are adopable but you have to pay them $50 to take it. Vets won't take them either, neither will they reduce their rates for "nipping" the things that make more problems.
So, you see that the state/city/county won't do anything to help with the problem. Now, don't get me wrong, I love animals, all animals, but if you allow a problem to continue it will only grow until it's out of control.
Now, if anyone is willing to donate to me either $50 a pop for the timid ferels which may be adoptable or a grand donation of around $100,000 or so, I would happily go around the county, trap the ferels, and take them to the vet for the surgery.
Until then, I can only thin the herds to ensure of no outbreaks of diseases and extreme property damage the only way offered to me at this time. I would love to bring them all in and make them into house pets but that is not practical or doable.
March 16, 2005, 04:23 PM
Whoa!!! I take it back.....after his post to Rich I must state firmly that DR_MAX and I DO NOT think alike as previously thought!
My apologies Rich.
March 16, 2005, 08:34 PM
The only way they can be converted is to actually own, and have a relationship with a cat.I own and have a relationship with a cat. Because I care about it, I control its movements for its own safety. A side benefit is that this also prevents it from annoying my neighbors.
That doesn't change my views on feral cats, or cats that are pets in name only (fed by someone but not controlled or maintained by them in any other significant way.)
I reject your premise. Emotion (loving a pet) is a poor rationale for forming a personal policy on the population management of feral animals. Any person with a significant background in science should appreciate that.
Furthermore, any person who would attack another person for legally eliminating a member of a non-native pest species needs to carefully reassess his motives and rationale. Engaging in an illegal and foolish activity, such as attacking a person who is engaged in a legal activity and who possesses a loaded firearm, is...well--illegal and unwise. It's kind of sad to even have to make such a pitifully obvious statement.
March 16, 2005, 08:37 PM
Ok I think if the cat has a collar it shouldn’t be killed. If you’re out of city limits and the animal has no identification that it could possibly be someone’s pet its fair game. If its someone’s cat on your street chances are you know where it lives and call the owner if you don’t like it on your property. if it comes back a paintball gun will do the job. I doubt they wouldn’t think twice about praying on little critters at your house. If you really have a problem with them a physical problem that is a 12ga with #4 shot would GET-R-DONE at close range.
March 16, 2005, 09:18 PM
At varying times over some fifty years I had cats and dogs, until moving to the desert. I won't try to have a pet cat here in Terlingua because of horned owls and coyotes, as well as the occasional lion. I'm gone too much for an indoor-cat to be feasible; it's not fair to the cat.
In town? I never ever even thought of killing somebody's cat. Never occurred to me. Heck, I once had a big ol' Siamese bluepoint tom who could make walls reverberate when he was in full song! Had him neutralized, and he just hung around the house after that. Didn't really like being reduced to the status of consultant. Sorta sad.
But feral--as in nobody owns them--cats out in the boonies flatout don't belong there and I do all I can to eradicate them...
I recommend the .220 Swift with a 52-grain Sierra HPBT, or a .243 with the 85-grain Sierra HPBT. Or whatever's handy. Red Mist Is Good!
"Me? Aw, I been unrepentant for the last 70 years or so..."
March 16, 2005, 10:25 PM
as much fun as popping some cats would be especially when their always in your yard and you have told your neibor to keep them under control I do have to agree with previous posts that A this will put Gun owners in a bad light B as much as I like and love song birds their are a good number of other things killing them as well and C I think shooting the cats with bows would save ammunition and make it more challenging. :D
March 16, 2005, 11:39 PM
I tried to point this out earlier but didn't really do an effective job. Songbirds are, by far, not the only animals killed by cats. They have virtually eliminated many other small animals such as small frogs, lizards, geckos, small non-poisonous snakes, virtually anything that moves and is small and slow enough to be caught by a cat, from large areas. Besides the obvious damage to local ecosystems, most of these small animals prey on insects--so reducing their populations tends to increase insect populations--something that few people want.
Furthermore, feral cats often injure pet cats and can spread diseases and parasites to pet cats and in some cases to other pets that are outside. Some of these diseases can even be spread to humans.
Focusing on the songbird issue dramatically oversimplifies this situation. This isn't simply a matter of cats vs songbirds, it's a matter of cats vs local ecosystems and also feral cats vs pet cats.
At the purely rational level, pet cat owners and cat lovers in general should be the MOST avid killers of feral cats since that reduces the incidence of diseases and parasites which can target their pets in specific and the species as a whole.
March 17, 2005, 01:18 AM
March 17, 2005, 02:44 PM
OK, on careful reflection, I must appologize for my emotional outbursts. This is a touchy subject with me as well as a lot of other people. I just hope you all can realize there is an enormous difference between culling nuisance stray and presumably feral cats, and shooting your neighbor's pet for being on your property. Maybe I'm not reading close enough, but it seemed to me that many of you are not making that distinction. If you are not, the next time you have what is fairly obviously a well-fed and owned cat in your sights I hope you will think about what you would say to a tearful seven year old cat owner as to why you thought it was OK to kill their kittycat. And while your at it, you might consider that that same seven year old may grow into another rabid anti-gun zealot. I'm just asking you to give it some thought. If the cat is owned - then surely you can think of a better way to deal with the situation than to just blow it away. As gun owners, we all owe it to each other, as well as to the population at large, to consider the consequences of each and every shot we take.
By the way, maybe things are a lot different out here (in OK) but I can't imagine anyone needing permission to shoot stray/nongame animals unless there is a law specifically proscribing it. Even where it is technically covered under anti-cruelty statutes, it is rarely if ever enforced.
March 17, 2005, 02:57 PM
I think that apology cuts both ways. Some of us were a bit flip in our responses (myself included). I don't really think anyone here is talking about shooting strays on sight (I hope not). As a dedicated Vet, I can see where we might have touched a hot button.
The feral cats issue is something different to many, though. As I said, I don't see them in my neck of the woods. My last dog, an Aussie, was found in the mountains of NC running with a near wild pack. Took us 3 weeks of feeding just to get a hand on him. Had him for 17 years.....best dog I've ever owned.
March 17, 2005, 04:04 PM
I was speaking only of ferels, not domestics that may have gotten out on accident.
From experience and just with common sense, a ferel and a house cat are pretty easy to tell the difference. Sometimes not so if you're not sure then take out a cat that you know is ferel.
If I see a tagged cat (this is the reason that I tagged mine), it's free from being shot and I do try to lure it in so I can call the Vet's number on the tag. If I can get it to just sit there long enough to get my binocs then I try to read the number and discribe the cat.
In no way and at no time was I speaking of just "hunting kitty" for fun and pleasure, even through I know that some would be happy to do just that (but not on this board... I hope).
I've lived here in Eugene for about 5 years now and unfortunatly had to thin the ferels twice. I have tried to get the humane society and the county to develope some sort of program but they won't. I call the LEO's when I see people abdaning the animals and I get tag numbers, discribtions, the whole nine yards and the LEO's won't do anything (can't blame the Sheriff, he and his deputies have a huge county to patrol and many out of the way areas).
When I see an abdaned animal I do try to lure it in and then find a home for it. Sadly, the animals usually have been beaten or hurt by a human and are scared of people (not to mention just being dumped) and run.
It's the people in this town that piss me off and when I have to thin the ferels, I don't feel good about it, more angry with the people in this town and the state, county (and the humane society which is anti hunting but won't do anything about the cats/dogs that people dump off).
Be assured, I get no pleasure from having to do such a job.
March 17, 2005, 07:45 PM
Shep Smith ran a piece on it tonight. Looks like tensions are heating up out there; proponents are receiving death threats.
March 22, 2005, 06:41 PM
Thats not a surprise Rich, nothing is more intolerant than a liberal.
March 22, 2005, 09:10 PM
I just hope you all can realize there is an enormous difference between culling nuisance stray and presumably feral cats, and shooting your neighbor's pet for being on your property. No Max, we sit around in our ninja suits planning raids on little old ladys' apartments to kill their cats and making gratuitous threats to strangers about what we're going to do to them if we catch them disagreeing with us. :rolleyes:
OK, on careful reflection, I must appologize for my emotional outbursts. Mighty kind of you.
BTW my nearest neighbor who harbors nuisance animals lives a little less than a half mile away.
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