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Bushwhacker
December 21, 1998, 09:21 PM
Afriend of mine said that a Mini-14 can be converted to full auto ,can it?
also does any one know of a "drum magazine for the mini-14" What about a bull bbl?

[This message has been edited by FLYERM14 (edited 12-21-98).]

Rob Pincus
December 21, 1998, 09:25 PM
There are legal ACC556's (auto version of Mini14) on the market. Any currently manufactured auto Mini-14 would not be available for civilian, non-dealer ownership.

I don't know for sure, but I believe that M.W.G. may have made a 90 round drum mag for the Mini-14. The AR versions were seen in one of the Batman movies on some cheesy flourescent Short barreled AR mock-ups.

4V50 Gary
December 22, 1998, 12:06 AM
A little digression first on full auto Mini14s. While based on the Ruger Mini14, many parts from the AC556 are not interchangeable with the Ruger Mini14. For one thing, the receiver of the AC556 is different from that of the Mini14. Besides the obvious cutouts for the selector switch, receiver of the AC556 is slightly longer. There are a few other parts on the AC556 (trigger, secondary sear, trigger housing to name a few) which also won't fit or work with Mini14 parts.

Concerning converting a Mini14 to full auto, I believe it can be done. Paladin Press sells a book which I've studied and the suggested modifications are very similar that of the AC556, sans the three shot burst feature of the AC556. Modification requires some drilling & tapping on the receiver (and even without the full auto parts installed, is easily recognized by a trained LEO as a converted firearm), fabrication of a rocker arm (trip lever for link) and a few other parts. Since it's illegal to convert anything to selective fire unless its for the military, law enforcement or for export, it is better to follow the legal channel and purchase a real AC556 from a Class III dealer.

Concerning the plastic 90 round drums from MWG, they work. One would think that because of the design, the balance of the Mini would be thrown off. While it is appreciably heavier, it's not lopsided at all. It works, is fun, but don't shoot too fast unless you're willing to send it back to Ruger for rebarrelling.

Finally, Heavy Barrels from the factory. I remember seeing the heavier Mini30 barrels bored smaller for the .223 when I was at the factory in 1996. Bill Ruger wanted to make his Mini14 more accurate and sent one gun to TX for accurizing. The engineers at Ruger studied the modifications and found them to be cost prohibitive for production and from a sales prospective, difficult to recover costs (the modified gun had a heavy varmint barrel, trigger work, glass bedded action and probably some other things which I'm not aware of). As an interim, a batch of stainless Mini14s with the heavier Mini30 barrels were made. While I was told that all new Mini14s would have these heavier barrels, I haven't followed up on it and it's been two years now. As you know, the heavier barrel would flex less due to heat warpage.

I was talking to the assembler at the factory who told me that he could get the barrels to shoot 2" MOA by mere straightening. After the barrels and receivers are assembled, they are placed on a jig which measures the straightness of the barrel and receiver. If it is over .004", he places the assembly into another jig to which an arbor press is attached, and tweaks the barrel. The assembly is then remounted onto the first jig and measured again. When he gets it to within factory specs (which should give 4" at 100 yards), the assembly is placed on the rack and another is tested. Mind you, a lot of other assemblers contribute to building the Mini14 and if they tweak it, his work is ruined.

4v50

[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited 12-22-98).]

christian
December 24, 1998, 01:21 PM
I've owned several mini-14's and after reading the conversion plans believe yu're better off with a factory hose machine! However if you lighten the trigger to 2lbs and hold the gun just right the volume of fire approaches 10 rounds per second. also 2 shot drop-in sears also can be very exciting! Bull barrels are recomended(600$) A+B DOW, in Florida does a nice job!Good luck!P.S. With a handload I've achieved one MOA!

litebrite2001
January 13, 2005, 04:05 PM
I am new to this forum, and looking for a little info. All of these posts were pre-sunset of the clinton ban. Is it now legal to manufacture a full auto and then register it? I currently have a mini-14 and would like to follow the books to convert it to select fire, but don't want to unknowingly violate the law.

WillBrayjr
January 13, 2005, 04:13 PM
As far as I know, You have to contact the BATF and go through the paperwork before converting it. You cannot convert a firearm to full auto and then have it registered.

shaggy
January 13, 2005, 04:19 PM
I am new to this forum, and looking for a little info. All of these posts were pre-sunset of the clinton ban. Is it now legal to manufacture a full auto and then register it? I currently have a mini-14 and would like to follow the books to convert it to select fire, but don't want to unknowingly violate the law.

The 1994 AWB had nothing to do with full auto weapons. Only a licensed 07FFL/SOT can manufacture a full auto, and even then it can only be sold to another FFL/SOT with a law enforcenemt demonstration request letter. Additionally, an individual with specific permission from the Secretary of the Treasury can manufacture full auto weapons but only for purposes of sale to the US government.

If you want a full auto, you have to buy one that was made and registered prior to May 19, 1986.

Hkmp5sd
January 13, 2005, 06:01 PM
I still kick myself in the butt for passing on a transferrable AC556 offered to me in the early 80s for $500. :mad:

shaggy
January 13, 2005, 06:11 PM
I could kick myself for passing up one last year for $2500.

Lawyer Daggit
January 13, 2005, 07:20 PM
A full auto model is available from Ruger for Government / Police purchase. This featured in a George Peppard show a few years ago called 'the A team'.

I have seen them wearing 30 round box mags that can be taped together like AK mags.

shaggy
January 13, 2005, 08:01 PM
As Rob pointed out, the full auto model of the Mini-14 is the ACC-556. Ruger also makes a short (13") barreled version, and you can get them in either stainless or blue finish, full wood or side-folding metal stock. The ones I've shot are fun, but I'd much prefer an M16 for serious social work. They're not terribly accurate and the recoil seems sharp as compared to a similarly outfitted M16. The short barreled ACC's with a folding stock do, however, make for a nice compact package with the factory Ruger 20rd mags. Law enforcement/dealer price for a post sample ACC is about $500-700. A transferable ACC-556 (legal for civilian possession & use) currently runs about $6000.

Edward429451
January 13, 2005, 08:27 PM
This is as close as you can get legally.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=62411&highlight=double+tap

Have two of the MWG 90 rnd drum mags for the Mini. They work.

shaggy
January 13, 2005, 09:11 PM
This is as close as you can get legally.

Not if you have the funds. Here's a transferable KACC-556 machinegun (short barrel, side-folder) for sale by my dealer. Legal for any civilian to purchase if legal in your state (and most states allow civilian possession of MG's so long as they're properly registered).

http://www.jbarms.citymax.com/catalog/item/871198/892811.htm

Edward429451
January 13, 2005, 09:21 PM
Oh, sorry. I meant to a conversion or without buying a real FA one.

PsychoSword
January 23, 2005, 12:40 AM
What was the price on it? Says sold pending funds, just wondering what he wanted for it.

Hkmp5sd
January 23, 2005, 11:59 AM
They are going for around $6,000 these days.

4V50 Gary
January 23, 2005, 12:09 PM
I'd take a M-16 first. More versatile and more cottage industry support for new-fangled things you'll never need. :rolleyes:

PsychoSword
January 23, 2005, 07:35 PM
Must be nice to have disposable income. :)

shaggy
January 23, 2005, 08:09 PM
What was the price on it? Says sold pending funds, just wondering what he wanted for it.

I think that one was $7k.

Here's another he's got listed for $6750. http://www.jbarms.citymax.com/catalog/item/871198/892804.htm

If you're interested, best thing to do is to call Howard at JB Arms (610-798-0200) and see what he's got in stock. Howard does a pretty good business and his inventory changes pretty quick - his website is probably a bit behind. I've done business with a lot of C3 dealers in Pennsylvania, but I now use Howard almost exclusively for all my gun purchases (both semis and full-autos); he's a great guy to deal with.

MatthewR
January 22, 2009, 02:54 AM
Hello, I am brand new to the site, just a few minuites ago. In reguards to all this fuss about a "Full Auto" mini-14; i have a question. What would happen if you just [U]removed [U] the secondary sear all together? I've been sitting here cleaning my rifle and studing how the triger system functions and it seems to me that that would do the trick. P.S. semi is better for control, I can squeeze off as many as I would imagine I"ll ever need. (no combat in my future):confused:

hoytinak
January 22, 2009, 03:05 AM
Hello, I am brand new to the site, just a few minuites ago. In reguards to all this fuss about a "Full Auto" mini-14; i have a question. What would happen if you just [u]removed [u] the secondary sear all together? I've been sitting here cleaning my rifle and studing how the triger system functions and it seems to me that that would do the trick. P.S. semi is better for control, I can squeeze off as many as I would imagine I"ll ever need. (no combat in my future

You'd get to know the inside of a prison pretty good for the next 10 years or so.

PTK
January 22, 2009, 04:45 AM
Hello, I am brand new to the site, just a few minuites ago. In reguards to all this fuss about a "Full Auto" mini-14; i have a question. What would happen if you just [u]removed [u] the secondary sear all together? I've been sitting here cleaning my rifle and studing how the triger system functions and it seems to me that that would do the trick. P.S. semi is better for control, I can squeeze off as many as I would imagine I"ll ever need. (no combat in my future)

The trigger group doesn't work that way. In so many words, the hammer would follow the bolt into battery and not fire - it was DESIGNED to not allow FA fire unless there was a disconnector that trips when the bolt closes. :)

Skans
January 22, 2009, 10:27 AM
Yes, a mini-14 can be converted to full-auto. In fact, there are a number of registered, transferable mini-14 conversions out there and they are cheaper than buying a true AC556 (probably for good reason).

FWIW, I believe that just about any semi-auto gun can be converted to fire full-auto. IMHO, a semi-auto rifle or pistol (or at the very least, select fire) is a much more useful tool under any condition than a full-auto bullet hose.

Don't get me wrong, I have an AC556 and I love shooting it. But, it wouldn't be my "go to" gun for either home defense, self-defense, or even in a SHTF scenario. If I were ever to find myself in a situation where I need to kick down doors with a team of folks and root out the bad guys, I would consider my AC556 an acceptible tool for that situation.

Dustin0
January 22, 2009, 10:46 AM
Conversions of any gun to full auto without the right paper work will land you in the gray bar hotel. If was me I would just leave it semi and get a TAC trigger. I have one a 10.22 and can dump a 30 round mag in no time flat.

ROFOCALE
January 24, 2009, 12:07 AM
Is the tac trigger any good? I always heard they are junk. And to save money for ammo just bump fire rather then buy a device like tac. The Akins Accelerator was pretty cool. But the BATFE took that fun away.

Maser
January 24, 2009, 10:53 AM
Wasn't it the A-Team who made full auto Mini-14s so popular?

But, yeah unless you're a Class 2 Manufacturer, you will spend a good 10-15 years behind bars for converting it yourself as a normal civilian. It's perfectly legal to know how to do the conversion, but actually doing it is where the legal issues arise.

45Marlin carbine
January 24, 2009, 12:42 PM
youtube has some vids of Mini 14's and M30's being fired (accurately to boot) with the legal double-tap sear modification.

ROFOCALE
January 24, 2009, 01:56 PM
What is the double tap sear?

45Marlin carbine
January 24, 2009, 02:01 PM
you should go to youtube and check - a vid is worth 10,000 words. it is legal to do that mod.

PTK
January 24, 2009, 10:23 PM
What is the double tap sear?

A .005-.007" shim under the secondary sear to induce firing upon pulling the trigger and firing upon release of the trigger. Pretty neat, actually... works reliably, too

B. Lahey
January 24, 2009, 11:11 PM
I just searched youtube and came up with bupkis. Did a google search, also bupkis.

What is this modification known as is common usage, because nobody calls it a "double tap sear"?

Hkmp5sd
January 25, 2009, 09:45 AM
Actually, it's a paperclip. It all started on The High Road several years ago.


http://www.thehighroad.us/showthread.php?t=62411


http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=32812176&searchid=91418fa1-71a5-4598-a41a-ee42080d81e8

B. Lahey
January 25, 2009, 04:08 PM
Ok, found some videos. Didn't see a single one where they managed to get through a mag without multiple malfunctions.

Seems like a pretty stupid modification if it turns a reliable rifle into a POS.

PTK
January 25, 2009, 04:14 PM
Ok, found some videos. Didn't see a single one where they managed to get through a mag without multiple malfunctions.

Seems like a pretty stupid modification if it turns a reliable rifle into a POS.

It works if you use a proper shim and actually get it to the correct thickness for the rifle in question. Mine has been 100% reliable - literally.

johnwilliamson062
January 25, 2009, 08:38 PM
If I could "selector switch" this mod I would be very interested in it. As is, no interest. Would rather bump-fire.

guntotin_fool
January 25, 2009, 09:40 PM
All of you looking for "mods" to make a mini into a AC556 are looking at serious jail time. Its a crime taken very very seriously and prosecuted fully. there is no "warning period" or any other nonsense.


Now the other issue that NO one has mentioned is that if you buy a AC556, you are buying a factory issued weapon with Factory Customer Service behind it. I do not think there is any other class three available to the private citizen that has this feature. If you look at all the conversion AR"s and M16's out there, if you have a problem, you are Looking at SERIOUS money to get it fixed. if your AC ruger dies, ship it back to connecticut, and they will make it right and for a VERY reasonable price.

jmorris
January 25, 2009, 11:34 PM
I tried the double tap trigger setup saturday mine took a .015 shim. It ran just fine but would need a comp to keep on target. Using an IDPA target first shot into body 2nd into head at about 15 yds.

hoytinak
January 26, 2009, 12:23 AM
I tried the double tap trigger setup saturday mine took a .015 shim. It ran just fine but would need a comp to keep on target. Using an IDPA target first shot into body 2nd into head at about 15 yds.

Lean into it. Controlling a fullauto is pretty easy with practice. ;)

PTK
January 26, 2009, 09:05 AM
I tried the double tap trigger setup saturday mine took a .015 shim. It ran just fine but would need a comp to keep on target. Using an IDPA target first shot into body 2nd into head at about 15 yds.

Seriously, it's a .223, put some muscle behind it.

jmorris
January 26, 2009, 11:02 AM
I didn’t say it kicked hard just there is quite a bit of muzzle rise when compared to my JP, Miculek or Grams f2 equipped AR’s. It doesn’t make as much noise though. If my mini were threaded I would give it another try. If it were full auto you would have time for it to "settle", but it's not.

4V50 Gary
January 30, 2009, 10:01 PM
The question was asked if removal of the secondary sear would result in full automatic fire.

It is conceivable that burst may be achieved. But there is a danger to it that can damage the gun, injure the shooter and anyone near the shooter. Why? It's called timing. The purpose of the auto-sear trip is to delay the forward motion of the hammer. This gives the bolt time to lock up the action so as not to fire out of battery. Allowing the hammer to follow the bolt forward can result in the gun firing out-of-battery and firing out-of-battery is a no-no because of the safety concerns mentioned earlier. Even in a SHTF situation, I would not recommend trying it because it's better to have slow, aimed fire that allows for the barrel to cool (rather than ruin your barrel), increased hit probability than expensive bullets flying harmlessly overhead, and finally, having your gun blow up and you or someone next to you injured. To prevent firing out of battery, the gun designer introduces the selective fire mechanism which delays the hammer's fall so as to ensure proper lock-up.

My recommendation: Don't try it. Besides, it's not worth a visit from the nice gentlemen of the ATF. Spend the ducats and buy a real AC556 with the paperwork. Time outside of prison is time that may be enjoyed shooting it. That's worth every penny.

jmorris
January 31, 2009, 09:47 AM
Allowing the hammer to follow the bolt forward can result in the gun firing out-of-battery

If you have a mini 14 go get it out of the safe and being to draw the charging handle to the rear while looking into the slot behind the bolt. Notice before the locking lugs are fully rotated out of position a “block” protrudes behind the firing pin, thus preventing the scenario you are talking about. With many other designs you are absolutely correct.

4V50 Gary
January 31, 2009, 11:09 AM
The tail of the firing pin was certainly designed to be function that way by Garand. It is achieved through the web of the receiver (that metal bridge that is seen when the receiver is flipped upside down). That feature has been carried over first into the M-14 and then by Ruger to the Mini-14. Still, the timing issue exists. Repeated pounding on the tail can result in its fracture and the firing pin can jam forward at some point in time.

Poorly made bridges, such as those found on some Springfield M-1A, can be susceptible to it. That's why it's important to inspect the tail of the firing pin and if it is stressed, to replace it on the M-1A.

jmorris
January 31, 2009, 09:46 PM
Repeated pounding on the tail can result in its fracture and the firing pin can jam forward at some point in time.


It is true, water can erode granite, and we should always be on the look out. Good point.

Jim6298
March 9, 2009, 05:40 AM
I was a class 3 dealer for 15 yrs. I've had a few AC556's there junk compared to an M-16. They were never designed as a military gun. They were designed as a police gun. I remember seeing the French Police using them in the late 70's. I had a brand new one i got from a police dept as a tradin. Fired a 30 rnd clip thru it and the selector blew off. inside there made just like the Mini 14. "Cheap" I wouldnt buy one.

Skans
March 9, 2009, 06:07 PM
I was a class 3 dealer for 15 yrs. I've had a few AC556's there junk compared to an M-16. They were never designed as a military gun. They were designed as a police gun. I remember seeing the French Police using them in the late 70's. I had a brand new one i got from a police dept as a tradin. Fired a 30 rnd clip thru it and the selector blew off. inside there made just like the Mini 14. "Cheap" I wouldnt buy one.

I have an AC556 13" model. I've fired thousands of rounds through it with absolutely no problem. No breakages, no melted barrel, nothing. I find it hard to believe that a selector on a mini-14 "blew off"?? The thing is in the rear of the receiver - no where near the chamber or any moving parts. Although, I have heard of one other AC556 with a selector switch that broke. It was easily fixed by the factory under the warranty program.

They are no less or more "junky" than M16's....which are basically disposable infantry guns. Their biggest flaw is the barrel that is not chrome lined and tends to heat up because it's not especially thick. The other complaint is that it's not as easy to swap out magazines as it is in the AR15.

An AC556 can be made to fire as accurate as an M16. Heavy 1" barrels and adjustable gas blocks are available, as well as well made tactical stocks. Personally, I'd rather have a factory made AC556 than an AR15 with a registered DIAS or lightning link. Talk about reliability problems!!