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David
October 26, 1998, 06:36 PM
I'm new to CLASS III. I keep getting conflicting reports.
What is the legal procedure for a civilian
to purchase these port ban goodies.
Can a dealer sample be purchased by a civvie?

Hilton
October 27, 1998, 07:20 AM
No. If you are a Class III dealer, you may get post ban dealer sample weapons with agency letterhead request. No new civilian transferable Class III's were available after the ban in, what is it, May 86 or so.

David
October 27, 1998, 10:18 AM
How are civilian VIP protection teams getting
the G-18? Does the corporation they work for
"own" them???

fal308
October 27, 1998, 11:10 AM
Corporations can own title III weapons. In some areas that is the only recourse if your CLEO won't sign off. You can incorporate yourself but if you let the corp. dissolve you must divest yourself of the title III weapons also. Then you also must pay corp. taxes etc.

4V50
October 27, 1998, 12:13 PM
David,

Corporate taxes aren't so bad, just don't show any profit! Really, make sure anything you would otherwise earn is eaten up by ammo expense - something very natural in the course and scope of owning a full auto. Just don't burn out the barrel with sustained full auto fire. With proper trigger control, short bursts are all you need.

Kodiac
October 27, 1998, 02:12 PM
Explain this Corp. thing... how does a corp. get class III?
I am thinking very hard about getting a class III, since I will soon start teaching local police officers either here - or set this up and teach LE officers out in Utah. Having a class III will allow some - flexability in the classes that can be offered.

4V50
October 27, 1998, 02:36 PM
fal308,

Kodiak raised a good issue. I know that a corp. is a legal entity which can hold title to chattel and dispose of the same, but is there some Fed law that allows post-86 Class III weapons to be owned by corps and not mere mortals?

I always though the easiet thing was to become the town marshal in some podunk place and just reimburse the city for its recent acqusition. Naturally, turning in the badge means surrendering the firearm.

Kodiak, it may be easier to become a class III dealer yourself. Just thinking.

danbrew
October 27, 1998, 06:44 PM
Corporations may not own post or pre samples unless they hold an FFL and a SOT tax stamp. Typically you'll find these folks in the business of selling guns. No reason in the world why a VIP Protection firm can't get an SOT.

I'm not so sure you will see that many VIP protection firms here in the US with Class III weapons. If so, I'd bet that most are actually pre-86 transferables.

danbrew :->

Rob Pincus
October 29, 1998, 12:19 PM
hey dan, There are very Few Glock 18s in this country. None that I know of are in the hands of non-SOT civilians. There are some modified Glock 17s, but these are SOT guns also. I would be surprised to find anyone in executive protection carrying an 18.

Kodiac, I have been up and down this road, believe me. The thing is you HAVE to be a legitimate dealer to have an FFL, without and FFL, your SOT status is useless. FFL now means having a real business location, with real hours, etc,etc. Now, the ATF can't blame you for being a bad business person, but the days of getting an FFL and saying you'll work out of your living room or trunk are long gone.
I have seriously considered putting up a cinder block building on one corner of my property, getting a seperate address for it, use it as a "gunshop" open 1 day a week, or by appointment then do a lot of work over the internet. Then I could become an SOT, in order to do some business with the LEAs around here. That is over a $5000 investment before I buy the first piece of inventory. Add to that all of the headaches of running a business and you had better buy a lot of toys to justify the endeavor, which of course costs even more $$$$$.

It is *much* cheaper to just pay the $200 tax on the guns you can find, unless you plan on having a safe full of Class II/III stuff.

fal308
October 30, 1998, 10:48 AM
Sorry if I was taken in the wrong context. I only meant to say that there are jurisdictions where the CLEO will not sign off. Depending on the local state of affairs others may be able to sign, some jusrisdictions allow the DA or maybe others to sign. They don't even have to have a reason oftentimes. The corp. is only a way if there is no alternative. My recommendation is to get the book "Machine Gun Buyers Guide and Owners Manual" by Frank Iannamico. It explains better than I ever can about civilian mg buying, owning, etc.

GLV
November 1, 1998, 12:43 AM
To the best of my knowledge, there are no form 4 Glock 18s in country. Machine Gun Dealers Bible by Dan Shea, is an excellent reference. GLV

Rob Pincus
November 1, 1998, 12:50 AM
They're definitely aren't any G-18s that a civilian non SOT can own in the US. Theoretically, there could have been some early G17s or 19s that were modified before the May 4th 1986 ban. But I haven't heard of any and they would probably go for $10,000.