PDA

View Full Version : .32 ACP Pistol Opinions


dairycreek
December 29, 1998, 07:35 PM
For a variety of reasons I am in the market for a .32 ACP. Again, for a variety of reasons, (cost being one of them)I've narrowed the choice to the Beretta Tomcat or the NAA Guardian. I've never been in the market for a so-called "mouse gun" before so any experiences, ideas, or suggestions would be welcome and appreciated.

Dakota Law Dog
December 29, 1998, 08:20 PM
I had a Tomcat for a whille, and really liked it. It was very accurate, and concealed well. I have never handled a Guardian, but from what I hear they are smaller than a Tomcat

Bryan Whited
December 29, 1998, 11:00 PM
The Guardian is the ultimate disapearing firearm. You just do not find anything smaller and with the punch of a 32acp.

shane
December 29, 1998, 11:53 PM
You have my attention. How much do these pistols cost? and what is the size vs a palm glock (9mm) model 26.

Shane

Rob Pincus
December 30, 1998, 12:13 AM
Both guns are smaller than the Glocks.

The NAA is smaller, but it is a copy of the Seecamp, which is also very small.

I have heard there has been some problem with the Gaurdian, and they are about a hundred dollars more around here.

I like my Tomcat (run a search, they are being disucssed under "mouseguns" on the site).



------------------
-Essayons

Kurt
December 30, 1998, 02:06 AM
I have fired and practiced with my Seecamp .32 for more than five years. It is easy to shoot at short ranges and functions flawlessly. I paid a premium to get it; but I am very, very satisfied.

The Seecamp is a "little jewel" of a gun. It is exquisitely designed and beautifully manufactured. I consider the Seecamp an "heirloom gun". The NAA and the Berretta perform well enough; but they are clunky designs compared to the Seecamp. If you appreciate subtle quality differences and can afford the extra cost; the Seecamp is THE choice.

If price is a consideration the NAA will do a fine job. All of the modern .32's function well and are easy to carry. My Seecamp goes everywhere! Good Luck, Kurt

EricGT
December 30, 1998, 03:43 AM
I agree that the Seacamp is a very well-built gun, but I don't understand what it has to offer, that justifies spending three or four-hundred dollars more than a Guardian. I have never seen a Seacamp disassembled, but externally it is pretty obvious that the Guardian is a vey close copy of the Seacamp. Actually I think that NAA has added a couple of real improvements to the Seacamp design. One is the addition of a 1911-style mag release. I've never been a fan of mag releases on the butts of pistols. The second improvement is the addition of a slide-release button. My Guardian cost me $350 in Phoenix, where Seacamps are selling for $775, and I am very happy with its performance. I agree that the finish work of the Seacamp is better, but for the extra money it would cost, I could have a bunch of custom work and polishing done somewhere like <a href="http://www.colt380.com/guardian.htm" target="new">Scott, McDougall & Associates</a>. They can also install Novak night sites or target sites on the Guardian, that will give you an honest-to-God site picture.
I really like Beretta's products. I have fired a Tomcat and loved the way it handled. If size is a consideration though, and if you are looking at this type of gun I'm guessing it is, the Seacamp/Guardian/Autuga pistol is really the way to go. Not only are these pistols quite a bit smaller than the Tomcat, they are smaller than the Beretta .25 autos. Good luck with whatever you choose.
<center><a href="http://www.naaminis.com/naanew.html" target="new">http://www.naaminis.com/smagrd.jpg</a></center>


------------------
Eric@Glock Talk
http://ericcom.com/glocktalk/

[This message has been edited by EricGT (edited 12-30-98).]

SB
December 30, 1998, 08:16 AM
We also have a Beretta Tomcat. Originally, it was for my wife who wanted something smaller, lighter, and with less felt recoil.

On the plus side, the gun shot well, wasn't too terribly expensive, and had a tip-up barrel, which I thought was pretty neat at the time.

On the downside, we must've gotten a defective model. At one point, we had a malfunction. I wasn't exactly sure what it was because I wasn't shooting at the time. All I saw was my wife racking the slide trying to clear it. Well, it cleared it alright, but not what she had hoped for. Instead of the dud, the gun ejected the firing pin! I know, the proper procedure was to tip up the barrel, not rack the slide. But when we took it to a gunsmith to look at it, he said this is bizarre and is something that SHOULD NOT have happened to the gun in the first place.

Well, we contacted Beretta. To their credit, service was prompt and cordial. Rather than fixing the gun we had, they exchanged us for a new one free of charge.

Since then, my wife has gotten more skillful and confident with her gun-handling skills and have requested a Glock 26 instead. We got a really good deal with a Glock 27 during a gun show so we decided to get that instead. In the near future, we still plan to get a 26 for her as she is comfortable with that round and I'll take the 27 from her as my back-up gun. For now, the Tomcat serves back-up duty in my pants pocket. The sad irony is that because I am pocket carrying, I don't have a round chambered in that gun and the slide is hard to rack. Other reasons for not chambering the Tomcat includes a fickle external safety (in other words, I'm not using it) to fearing another "mishap" with this gun.

My $.02

[This message has been edited by SB (edited 12-30-98).]

Bryan Whited
December 30, 1998, 02:20 PM
In one of the responces there was mention of a slide release lever on the Guardian. Well, I just wanted to point out that this item does not exist. The Guardian only has two controls on it. One being the mag release (1911 style) and the other being a take down lever which is located under the right end of the slide, in the grip. This only alows for disassembly.

Kodiac
December 30, 1998, 03:39 PM
I have been to the NAA factory... I examined each part of the process in making the guns there.

I was very impressed in the quality and the workmanship there. They hand fit each part after carefull CNC machining. Each gun is hand finished as well. Almost to the point of each gun being "custom made" by folk who are all "gun nuts" which is a company phrase, and policy there.

My choice would be the Guardian - in a heart beat. No need for a second thought.
I would have to ask "Why NOT an NAA gun?" And to that I have no answer. The receptionist there is also Very Cute... and she knew guns better than most police officers I have ever known! *Sigh* If I wasnt married...

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com

Rob Pincus
December 30, 1998, 05:33 PM
Hey, Kodiac, do those three dots at the end of your post translate to "I could've been turned down by the NAA receptionist." ??! ;)

I'm going to have to give the NAA a closer look. Personally, I'd never pay over $500 for a Seacamp and the one time I offerred that much it was at a charity auction. Like I said, I have heard some people say there were some problems with it, butI'll have to investigate further.

Eric,

With the ranges you'd be likely to use such a gun, wouldn't you be just as well off (and better off in the bank) if you just ground the sights off the gun and not invested the money/time into the Novaks?

Also, what ammo are you carrying in it? Will it feed reliably with STs ??

4V50 Gary
December 30, 1998, 11:44 PM
Hey SB!

The same thing happened to a buddie of mine. Beretta uses a solid pin to retain the firing pin. If the material of the slide is good steel, maybe they'll go to the cheaper roll pin which, because of its spring steel's propensity to expand, won't rattle loose like a solid pin.

If I had known, I wouldn't bought one myself. Well, we have to live with our decisions and I should shoot the daylights out of mine to test it.

Gary

Kurt
December 31, 1998, 01:52 AM
Kodiac, I apologize; but I feel compelled to stick up for the Seecamp!

Yes, the NA is a similar design and it is less expensive, no doubt it is a fine gun. My Seecamp has functioned flawlessly, so let's say they are equal in terms of mechanics.

Still, there is more to design superiority than "where the buttons are located"! Put the two guns side by side, pick them up, examine their lines. INMHO, the Seecamp has superior ergonomics, is more compact, more svelt and is a simply a much more attractive pistol.

I like Scott McDougall; but Novak sights on a NAA Guardian is silly. This is not a target gun and as Louis Seecamp himself put it "this is a 'stick it in their nostril and pull the trigger gun".

Louis Seecamp built the .25/.32 ACP for his well heeled Connecticut customers who found it burdensome to carry their custom Seecamp .45's in business attire. He considered his .32 a "real world" defense gun. He was one of the first to quietly advocate "having a gun" as the first rule of defense. In this and other engineering innovations he was way ahead of his time.

Mr. Seecamp realized that a .32 ACP pocket pistol is a very specialized weapon. His personal vision of what the gun is meant to do resulted in an extremely elegant design. Every curve is carefully executed with his purpose in mind.

The NA is nicely made and goes "bang" just fine. But the gun is slightly chunky and with sights, kinda of a joke. The grip is not as trim and the overall proportion less pleasing than the Seecamp.

Is the Seecamp worth it? I don't know. Is a Monte Blanc pen worth it; when a BIC writes just as well? $200 more? that's $10 bucks a year to own a superior Seecamp design
if you plan to keep the gun 20 years.

Seems worth it to me. But I can also understand someone going the cheaper routes


Best Regards, Kurt

EricGT
December 31, 1998, 06:28 AM
Bryan Whited, when I mentioned a 'slide release' button, I meant a button that you push to remove the slide. I'm sorry If the term I used was ambiguous.

Rob, I am not the type of person that normally buys a lot of gadgets for guns, but I think that night sights would be a genuine enhancement to the Guardian. I practice firing in low and no light situations quite a bit and I like having those three dots to use as a reference in the dark, even if the target is close. Even so I haven't made up my mind yet about this mod. $290 is a lot of money. BTW, I carry Win. Silvertips in my Guardian. I've fired close to a thousand rounds through it now and the Silvertips have been the only 100% reliable brand I've tried.

Kurt, I think 'silly' is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think spending $400 dollars more on a gun that will not give any better reliability or functionality than the less expensive one is silly. I could pay for the Guardian, have the night sights installed and still have money left over for a few visits to the range, for what the Seacamp would cost. I don't think less expensive is always synonymous with cheaper. I respect the fact that you appreciate quality though, and I think you have the right to spend your money any way you want, as do I.


------------------
Eric@Glock Talk
http://ericcom.com/glocktalk/

[This message has been edited by EricGT (edited 12-31-98).]

Kurt
December 31, 1998, 12:37 PM
Eric,

"Silly" certainly is in the "eye of the beholder" and I should have chosen a different phrase. I should have said that I believe sights on this size pistol are unnecessary.

Mr. Seecamp left the sights off the gun for practical reasons; but leaving them off was also a design statement. The clean slide was a radical break from the "symbolic" sights found on traditionl vest pocket .25's.

Every industry seems to have what I call "milestone" designs that epitomize a concept. They are not always a "first" or necessarily the most expensive. They are frequently rejected initially and often take time to catch on.

The Model T Ford, the Waring blender, the Timex watch, could all be included in this somewhat nebulous category of "milestone designs". The Remington 700 is a milestone design, a damn fine rifle, and a bargain besides!

I believe the Seecamp is a milestone design that best captures the concept of modern pocket pistol".

For me, that makes it fun to own; even if it costs a bit more.

You could look at it this way. You are willing to spend $300 for a design that includes night sights. I am willing to pay $400 for a design that doesn't!

I don't claim that the Seecamp is a "better" pistol or that either one of us will be "right" in our choice.

If I needed a pocket pistol and couldn't afford a Seecamp I could easily choose the NAA. In this case, I'm willing to pay more for something I find esthetically pleasing.

By the way, thanks for posting the neat pictures.

Happy New Year!

Kurt

Happy New Year

[This message has been edited by Kurt (edited 01-01-99).]

Bryan Whited
December 31, 1998, 02:05 PM
Hi Eric,

I could have been a bit more understanding on the "Slide Release" but automatically thought of it in the way the term is normally used.

Night sights for the Guardian is a choice that the user has to make but my thoughts are that they are not needed. As much as I like the Guardian, I still only consider it as a nose gun (if it ain't in the bad guys nose it ain't much good). The 32ACP just doesn't have enough power to be used at much of a distance. If the BG is 15 yards away and all I had was a Guardian I would be running, either away or to the BG for a better shot.
What it comes down to is if I'm far enough away that I need to use the sights them I'm to far away for the Guardian to be effective.

Kodiac
December 31, 1998, 02:53 PM
Dont get me wrong... The Seacamp is a wonderful little gun - I have wanted one for a long time - just cause it is such a celebrity gun for the pocket pistol group. But I have yet to find one for less than the cost of my HK. And let me see - I have only found 2 for sale in the last several years.

The Guardian is much more available, affordable - and just as good or better than the 'Camp.

Rob - She flirted with me first! Those three dots would have ment something a gentleman from Virginia like me just can't talk about.
:)

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com

Chilly1017
December 31, 1998, 04:20 PM
I have a .32 acp and don't like it. The only thing I like about it is its small. It also belonged to my grandfather and is quite old. The only reason I keep it is that it has become some what of an heirloom. My father got it from his father and he wanted me to give it to my son. My son enjoys firing it as does my wife, because its bigger than a .22 and smaller than a .38. I bought an AMT .45 acp a while ago because of the concealability and the large caliber, but alas it is only acurate up to 10 feet. A great very close quarter gun though.

------------------

Senator
December 31, 1998, 11:16 PM
Geez, I go out of town for a few days and my beloved Seecamp pops up in its own thread...

I'm with Kurt about the Seecamp. I paid $375 for mine back in the early '90's and don't regret it a bit. If I'm awake and dressed, the thing is with me. There are very few other guns on the market that can be carried as discreetly as often as this one. There is really no reason not to have it with you at all times. I carry Silvertips in mine. It has functioned flawlessly over the years.

As for the Guardian, I think it's a pretty nice knock-off of the Seecamp. It is, however, bigger, bulkier, wider, and heavier. When it comes to a gun like this, all of these attributes will come into play when deciding what to carry. My father-in-law (also a Seecamp owner/carrier) recently purchased a Guardian. After a couple of days of pants pocket carry, he switched back to the Seecamp. The Guardian printed more, and was heavier in the pocket than his Seecamp. The Guardian now sits in the safe...

I also agree that the sights (even low profile Novaks) are a bit superfluous on this gun. This is structly a close-up piece. If you are going to spend the additional money on the Guardian tune-ups anyway, IMHO your money would be better spent buying the original design (Seecamp) in the first place. However, if price IS an object, then I think the Guardian is definately worth looking at.

YMMV

------------------
Kelly

Deo Vindice

Bailout
January 2, 1999, 04:41 PM
How about a little different line of thought. For about $150, You can get a like new CZ-50 double action .32 ACP It may not be as small as the others, but it is at least as small as a Walther PP. The function of these pistols are excellent! No bang-bang-click sort of stuff. There are very few who will argue with the quality of CZ...Just a suggestion in the .32 world...Bailout

Rob Pincus
January 2, 1999, 11:23 PM
Let me say this, I would buy a Seecamp in a minute for $400 or less, but I haven't seen one at that price. If you guys are comparing a Seecamp at $400 and an NAA at the market price, go Seecamp all the way, duh! But, the reality is that the last time I saw a Seecamp for sale it had a price tag of $1000.00 (I know they'd take less, but you get my point...)

Kurt
January 3, 1999, 01:30 AM
Rob,

I don't think you'll find a .32 Seecamp for $400 -- but here in Connecticut, where the factory is located, the guns seem to be more plentiful than in other parts of the country.

A friend bought one recently for $565. I don't have much trouble finding them here at prices ranging between $550 to $650.

I've never met him, but Larry Seecamp has an excellent reputation locally.

Happy New Year!

Kurt

EricGT
January 3, 1999, 05:28 AM
When the Seecamp .32 came out, it sold for about what a Guardian costs today. When people saw what a great little gun it was(and I'll be the first to say that it was and is an oustanding little gun), the demand very quickly outstripped the production capabilities of Seecamp. What happens when demand is higher than supply? They were able to make the Seecamp .32 and sell it at a price that is comparable with today's Guardians, and make a profit doing it. The only thing that has changed is price-gouging, do to demand (and no, I am not saying that it is Seecamp doing the gouging, but someone is). At the time, no one made a pistol comparable to the Seecamp, that gave customers a choice and helped keep the Seecamp's price at a reasonable, realistic level. I think the Seecamp would be a real value at what it originally was supposed to cost, but I won't pay eight-hundred or a thousand dollars for a four-hundred dollar gun anymore than I'll pay one-hundred dollars or more for a twenty-dollar, fifteen round pistol magazine. Now that Seecamp has some serious competition, maybe they'll work a little harder at getting their production numbers up. North American Armory nearly doubled their Guardian .32acp production last year. I can't believe, that with a product as good as Seecamp's .32 pistol, Larry Seecamp couldn't have gotten the funding a long time ago to build larger facilities and increase production to match demand for his gun. As the following of the Guardian and the Autuga pistols grow, I think we will see the production numbers of the Seecamps come up and the prices go down accordingly. Keep in mind that this is one man's opinion, and I don't mean to offend or insult anyone with it.

------------------
Eric@Glock Talk
http://ericcom.com/glocktalk/

[This message has been edited by EricGT (edited 01-03-99).]

Kurt
January 3, 1999, 11:59 AM
Hi Eric!

You're absolutely right supply & demand has lead to price gouging; but I can tell you for certain that it is the distributors and dealers who are putting excessive mark-ups on the guns!

Seecamp's shop is 20 minutes from my house and I have a couple of friends who know Larry and/or have worked for him.

Over the years I've heard all kinds of "Seecamp Rumors" (especially in the gunzines) -- 'that Seecamp intentionally limited supply to manipulate prices' 'that Seecamp planned to expand production' and when that didn't materialize 'competition from NAA would force Seecamp to expand'.

I suspect that most of the prognosticators haven't met Larry Seecamp! I haven't either -- but I understand that he's a very nice, very laid back, guy who is extremely dedicated to the quality of his products.

I've also heard that Larry's not much interested in running a large operation. He has certainly had plenty of offers and opportunities to expand; that he hasn't followed through on!

IMHO -- I suspect that Seecamp will continue to turn out limited quantities of their fine .32 ACP pistol; but won't do anything specific to combat competition from NAA, Berretta, and others.

The story at Seecamp is that they do what they like to do and try to do it very well.
Louis Seecamp was a pretty independent guy who designed guns for Mossberg before going out on his own. He licensed various patents and developed a nifty DA .45.

My "wild a--" guess, is that if anything new happens at Seecamp it will be a product innovation. Maybe a new gun or caliber.

I've also heard is that it is a pretty safe bet that Larry will continue working diligently to lower his golf scores!

The Seecamps are good people with a penchant for doing things their own way. I hope that one of these days I'll get to meet them!

Happy New Year!

Kurt

EricGT
January 4, 1999, 03:06 AM
Well if Larry Seecamp has found his niche and is happy with his business the way it is, more power to him. I have to respect a man that picks a point and says, "I'm happy here." Thanks for the insights Kurt. The only info I had ever heard on Larry Seecamp himself was in those gunzines you referred to. It wasn't until very recently that I realized that those articles I've been reading since I was a kid are written by real people who can be, and often are wrong. I am a little chagrinned to admit that up until a year and a half ago, it never even occurred to me to question what I read in those mags. I still enjoy reading all the gun magazines. I just do it with my eyes open now.

------------------
Eric@Glock Talk
http://ericcom.com/glocktalk/

Walt in CT
November 21, 1999, 07:28 PM
I have to agree with the not wanting to pay high prices for the SEECAMP. I purchased one yesterday that was on sale for $550. after seeing them at $775.

Best buy I ever made. I also just live up the road from where they are made and to tell you the truth I'm glad to have bought one. What follows will explain why.

Today being a Sunday I went to the shop to see about getting a holster and spare mag for mine.

The owner was the only one in the shop "Ole LS himself." He not only gave me the tour of the shop and sold me the mag and holster I wanted but gave me a bottle of the gun lube he uses for the heck of it. Free oil is not the reason for the praise but...

The kind of service and pride in his product that one would like to see in all walks of life. Not much of that these days in the big corporate America that has shut down most shops.you can see his pride in his eyes.

That is what makes the SEECAMP flawless and the best darn 32 ACP. around. He makes them one at a time not on a big production line.

It's the darn sellers of the gun that give the SEECAMP a bad rap... Not the gun being special. It is one Hell of a gun to own just because it was made with care and by the mans hand.

Ok Nuff said. Just my 2 cents.

Jimmie
November 22, 1999, 05:08 PM
Hmmmm...my .380 Colt is just a tad bigger than the NAA, but packs almost twice the stopping power.

It even fits in the same size pager pal holster.

Same price as a NAA.

To late to get one now though, but not hard to find a used model.



------------------
The new guy.

"I'm totin, this pistol because my dang SKS won't fit in my holster"

Dr.Rob
November 22, 1999, 06:29 PM
I was going to comment on that lil CZ 32 auto as well. CZ built stuff in typical east-bloc style heavy parkerization, stone simple and tank tough. And the price on them is well below other such 32's... does anyone have experience with these pistols??

I adore my PA-63 (ap9) in 380 but the alloy frame seems pretty soft (for a long life pistol), the cz in supposedly all steel.

Anyone??


Dr.Rob

cornered rat
November 22, 1999, 07:44 PM
I shot a CZ50 and it was not reliable (poor feeding with ball ammo). Ergonomics were a bit off. Sights and trigger were decent. It wasn't easy to hide, but smaller than a PPK/s with which I compared it.

Glenn E. Meyer
November 22, 1999, 11:25 PM
Well kids to make life difficult,
Dean Speir has seen a LWS in
380 ACP. Or so he said on rec.guns
if you deja it.

bye
Glenn http://www.enconnect.news/cyberguns

Libertarian
November 22, 1999, 11:57 PM
I had a pair of CZ 50s. They were both refused to feed anything over five rounds in the mag with HP. Ginen that limitation, I experianced more than enough jams to warrant getting rid of them both. (But what should I have expected from a $95 pistol?)

Bob S
November 23, 1999, 11:31 AM
I can't beleive that there have been 30 + posts to this thread and not one person has talked about the new keltec p-32. It may be slightly longer than the seecamp, but it is MUCH lighter. I've recently shot one, and it appeared to be a reliable well built little gun. Of course I'd want to shoot it much more before I could say it is 100% reliable. What do you all think??

pbash
November 23, 1999, 04:01 PM
I've had a Guardian for about 6 months and just bought a Kel-Tec P-32 last Saturday. I haven't fired the P-32 yet, but I can say that the P-32 is very much lighter than the Guardian and carries in my pocket or clipped to the waist of my pants *much* easier than the Guardian. It also seems to fit my hand better than the Guardian which will hopefully make it easier to shoot with hot ammo. The Guardian is very unpleasant to shoot more than a couple of times with Fiocchi 60gr JHP. The P-32 also costs about half of what the Guardian costs.

loknload
November 25, 1999, 12:31 AM
I just purchased some of those CZ pistols that are .32 cal. I was impressed with the caliber but not with the gun. Only had chance to fire the CZ50 and it was very unreliable. I have since learned of there short commings and plan to work them out. I want to see what the 70 will do but I'm sure it won't be much different from the 50. All in all I was impressed with the.32. I don't think I would carry for self protection but I guess it would be better than nothing.

------------------
gun control is people control

George Hill
November 25, 1999, 02:21 AM
Isn't James Bond's Walther PPK chambered for .32 rather than .380?

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!

craigz
November 25, 1999, 09:37 AM
The only one of the .32 mouse guns that I haven't heard numerous stories of malfunctions about is the Seecamp, possibly because it's designed to shoot only one type of ammo (Silvertips). The Tomcat, the Guardian, and the Keltec are all crapshoots. Many of these guns have to go back to the factory for service; sometimes more than once. Do a complete search on deja.com and you'll find numerous stories of malfunctions.

My Guardian went back to the factory three times, for repeated feed failures, an ejected extractor, and two broken slide releases, and still never functioned properly. They finally gave me a new gun at my insistance, which I sold soon after. Everyody raves about NAA's great customer service, but I think that it's only because so many people have to make use of it. I'd rather have a gun that works right to begin with.

Finally, the .32 ACP is an anemic round, in my opinion. These little guns are convenient, but they just don't cut it. I use an S&W 642 .38 Special for a pocket gun now and I feel much better protected.

abruzzi
November 25, 1999, 11:22 AM
This is a link to a very professional comparison of the NAA Guardian, Seecamp 32 and Beretta Tomcat
http://www.naaminis.com/gtreview.html

Dennis
November 26, 1999, 10:21 AM
The .32ACP Pistol Opinion thread is moved from the General Forum to the Handguns and Pistolcraft Forum.

john33
November 26, 1999, 01:09 PM
Don't make the mistake of letting money influence your decision on a .32 apc for a carry gun (or any other for that matter). Get something that works and you can shoot well at 3 to 5 yards. You may not get a second chance. And don't be found dead with a round or two in your gun. Otherwise, you are probably better off with out one.

Harvp46
November 27, 1999, 01:06 AM
I agonized for a month over which .32 to buy, and spent hours researching the subject. Final conclusion: The Seecamp is absurdly expensive and largely unobtainable; also, I wouldn't buy a pistol with absolutely no sites. The Autauga only shoots hollowpoints, making practice overly expensive. The Guardian's trigger is too stiff, it's known for out-of-the-box reliability problems (although NAA will fix and refix it until these are, supposedly, all resolved), especially last-round stovepipes, and, at $400, I wouldn't buy it unless it was, in fact, known for its reliability. I finally settled on the Kel-Tec P-32. Half the weight and $150 cheaper than the Guardian, a much lighter trigger, locked-breech mechanism to reduce recoil, and something about its very basic blue plainness that I found appealing, as compared to the excessive metallic sheen of the Guardian.

D Crockett
November 30, 1999, 08:41 PM
I own a Keltec P-32. It had two problems:
1. The magcatch is polymer and the mag is
steel, which chews up the mag catch when
the mag is seated w/out depressing the
the release.
2. The polymer frame flexed a little and
allowed the trigger return spring to
come out of position, rendering it un-
usable.
I returned the pistol to Keltec and they replaced the magcatch and frame. It functions
fine now w/ any ammo I've run through it, including Fiochi. No problems chambering
and I'm carefull about the magcatch now(which I told them needs to be metal).

Very light and concealable pistol, they just
need to work out a couple of kinks.

bruno
November 30, 1999, 09:22 PM
I know this isnt what your looking at but it could be an alternative......the old browning 32acp's and 380's can be found with some looking for around 250-300 dollars and that is the 32 that I like.....fubsy.

tatters
December 1, 1999, 12:39 AM
Still gotta go with the KelTec imho. It works great for the intended purpose, hides wonderfully, and is inexpensive, compared to the rest of the .32's. I know expense is not the only criteria, but I feel the VALUE is there with the P-32. While I don't feel underarmed (is that a real word?)with a .32 in most of my environmental situations, a larger caliber may make you feel more comfortable.

------------------
Have a Twinkie, snappahead---Ford Fairlane

Harvp46
December 3, 1999, 11:46 PM
My thanks to D.Crockett for his good advice on the Kel-Tec magazine catch. I can see where the traditional method of whacking the metallic magazine home against a plastic catch will lead to eventual problems. Kel-Tec-32 owners take note: always depress the catch before shoving the magazine in!

cornered rat
December 4, 1999, 01:08 AM
Guess it just seemed natural to depress the catch when re-loading. What impressed my about the Keltec, besides excellent concealability, is how reliable it is. I have fired up to 300+ round in a day and it worked just fine at the end. It is somewhat like the Ar15, a gun for which I have no warm fuzzies but which, I must admit, works well and efficiently for its purpose. I would have bought the P32 had it cost any amount under $500, and I am glad that I waited for about three months while shopping for mouseguns, as the P32 just appeared on the market then. BTW, S&B at 7.50/50 is great practice ammo, similar to 9.00/50 Fiocchi is performance. PMC, IMO, is suboptimal...but all ammo I tried works.

Byron
December 4, 1999, 11:10 PM
My Autauga has turned out to be a nice little gun, reliable through 100 rounds. Not a good trigger, but better than the Guardians I tried. The Seecamp has no sights, which is not a big drawback for its intended belly-gun use, but the Autauga has sights and will shoot surprisingly decent groups at 7 yds. Negatives are (1) Expensive ammo (Silvertips, although the company says you can shoot Fiocchi's if not too often -- the recoil spring is tuned for Silvertips). On the other hand, this is not a gun you are likely to shoot very much. (2) The trigger guard has sharp edges and I quickly wore through the skin on my trigger finger where it bounced against the trigger guard; rounding it off fixed the problem. (3) The mag release is awful -- hard to find and even harder to operate when you do find it. (I hate to think about what kind of situation would involve going into a second magazine with a gun like this...)

lucky085
December 6, 1999, 08:45 AM
I have a question for an Keltec P32 owners. I am considering buying one, and have looked at one at a local gun dealer's store. I did notice that when the slide was pulled back when the magazine was unloaded, it would stay back and would not go forward unless the magazine release button was pressed. I am assuming that the slide works normally when the magazine is loaded.

Am I correct?