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Garthine
January 10, 2005, 10:06 PM
Hi yall.

I`m lookin to buy a BP rifle & need something for about 250 - 300$ but I can push 500$ if I need to. lookin for range accuracy & a REAL look to it. You know a wood stock sidehammer percussion, none of that plastic crap inline stuff.

Hope to hear from ya soon.

Garth

4V50 Gary
January 10, 2005, 11:50 PM
I like round ball flintlocks, but they take some work to determine the best combination of ball size & weight/patch thickness/powder to get best results.

If you want to cheat and do some quick/dirty and easy long range shooting (several hundred yards), get a minie ball shooting British Parker Hale Enfield. The Enfield rifles were the favorite of the Confederate sharpshooters.

sebago
January 11, 2005, 05:46 PM
I don't have one myself but a lot of folks swear by the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It has a very authentic look and sells in the $300. range. It's also said to be quite accurate at the range as well. If you're not real concerned about being period correct I can recommend Thompson/Center Hawkens or Renegades as quality guns. They aren't what anyone would call historically accurate however. Either can be bought used in good shape for around the $200. range. If you go the used route though check them out very carefully.

SmokinTom
January 12, 2005, 08:14 AM
Go to Google and type in Bass Pro Shops.Follow the links to Muzzleloading or black powder and start shopping.You can even pay over 6 months with a credit card.Good luck.

Lonestar.45
January 12, 2005, 01:21 PM
Lyman Great Plains Rifle. For your price range and the desire to want something that looks "real", that's the one. Check out MidSouth.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156031102

That's what you want. They look really nice in person. You can also get a kit from them, if you're handy with finishing wood and metal.

taralon
January 12, 2005, 11:04 PM
Any of the Cabela's named line sidelocks shoot well. I can personally attest to that (shooting a 47 out of 50 in 5 shots on a 87 yard target on a windy day ain't bad). I personally prefer .54s for a game rifle, and .45s for target. One might think the .50 is best from that but I've never found one that I liked shooting.

Garthine
January 12, 2005, 11:51 PM
Thanks yall im a painter by trade & so are my father, granddad, & greatgranddad so wood finishing aint a problem HOWEVER metal/spring/gear working is. I dont know too much about assembly of a BP rifle but I DO know a mechinist/armor, weapon, black smith to help with that Lonestar.45 would that mean I should buy kit?

mec
January 13, 2005, 10:14 AM
My Lyman GPR is from a kit that I got in the early days of its importation. It is fully fitted and set up mechanically with the completion job being largely cosmetic. You can draw file the barrel until all of the "safety" literature is gone and the plumb brown for a finish. I really does look period authentic when you get through.

Accuracy is as good as you could hope.

Lonestar.45
January 13, 2005, 11:15 AM
Garthine, with your woodworking experience, you just may be happier with a kit. There's nothing like shooting a gun that you finished yourself. For me, it just adds to the satisfaction. The Lyman kits are really good, everything is pretty straightforward. The metal finishing is the only sticky part (at least for me), but even that isn't too bad, especially if you know someone who can help you out.

If you want to see what one looks like up close, go to:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=83&styleId=290&partNum=LYMAN-GPR-RIGHT-PERCUSSION

Track of the Wolf has a LOT of muzzleloader guns, supplies, etc. Maybe not the cheapest, but I like to go there to look at all the guns, the pics are great.

Garthine
January 13, 2005, 06:57 PM
When you say Metal finishing I take that to mean blue`in the metal or as they say in my profesion Coating well what would I use for that the boys at the lab will get me anything I need Coatings wise (ever seen 5 part epoxy? I have & its indesructable.) my familys been in the buisness since 1920 or so & I learned the trade from the old man (hes been at it 60 years) so i know a hell-of-a-lot about paints, resins, epoxys & bonders.... but that doesent include what you finish a gun or rifle with. (Unless a 3-5 parter works. Remeber we use this stuff at Macdill Field for hangers & fuel tanks & stuff.)

Garthine
January 13, 2005, 07:44 PM
Next lets talk twist whats better overall for target & hunting? Fast or slow twist? & should I get a .50 or a .54 (Im kinda large & brawny so "kick" wont matter too much to me)?

yorec
January 13, 2005, 08:21 PM
Nice site, Lonestar .45 - bookmarked for later reference...

Finishing a kit if usually pretty straightforward - wood is shaped, but requires final sanding, fifitting, and finish. Metal work includes polishing brass parts and bluing/browning steel components.

I wouldn't use any modern epoxys on a gun you want to look period - unlikely to do the job even if they are indestructable. (especially since they are?) Just find someone who does bluing or browning and get them to do it - or learn how yourself. It isn't that hard and you may already have equipemnt for it if not proper chemicals...

I prefer flintlocks myself. :cool:

Rate of twist depends a lot on what you'll be shooting through it - ball or bullet. Others are much more expert on that then I - I just go with the factory standard and experiment to see which the individual gun shoots best. And caliber size - the bigger the better, I like my .58. ;)

Garthine
January 14, 2005, 06:27 PM
Well heck does a .58 get as good a range as a .54 & a .50? If so do they make a .60 & where can I get one?

Lonestar.45
January 14, 2005, 10:56 PM
Garthine, as far as metal finishing goes, you'll want to either blue or brown the metal. Well, let me back up. Some kits you can buy, the metal is already blued, all you have to do is finish the wood and put it together. Other kits, the metal is still "in the white", or not finished. It's a matter of filing/sanding/polishing the metal, then bluing or browning it. If you get a gun with an "old time" look to it, you'll want to brown it, as that's the way they were way back when. Birchwood Casey makes a "plum brown" solution, that requires heating the metal, and applying the browning solution. Of course, they also make all the cold bluing type solutions too. There's lots and lots of ways you could do it. Brownell's carries a ton of products to do this. With your background, I don't think you'd have a problem finishing the metal if you wanted.

As far as twist goes, well, the deal is, first you need to decide what kind of projectile you want to shoot. If you want to shoot just traditional round balls with patches, you really really want to stay with a "slow" twist barrel, say 1:60, 1:72, or so. Maybe you could get by with a 1:48, which is kind of a medium twist. Round ball is traditional, and for many "purists", that's all they'll shoot. For hunting deer sized game, you'd probably want at least a .50 caliber. .54 caliber is a good choice also.

If you want to shoot a "conical" bullet, you'll want a faster twist, say 1:32, 1:28, or so. Conicals are much heavier than round ball, and elongated. The faster twist stabilizes them better, making it accurate. If you try to shoot a conical out of a slow twist barrel, chances are your accuracy will be terrible, and the bullet will be tumbling. Most modern inline muzzleloaders are set up to shoot conicals. For traditional guns, you can usually get either a fast twist or a slow twist barrel. Many folks like conicals for hunting because they are heavier, and transmit more muzzle energy. For deer sized game, I'd say .45 cal is probably minimum, with a .50 preferable.

Lots of folks go with a 1:48 twist, because it's a "medium" twist, and allows them to shoot either patched round balls, or a conical type bullet. But every gun is different, and sometimes a 1:48 barrel will shoot one type or the other much much better (or worse).

Sure, you can get a .58 cal, or even a .62 or .68. The "range" isn't any better with a larger caliber necessarily. You've got to use a lot more powder to push a .58 cal ball to the same velocity as a .50 cal. By playing with your loads, you can find out what charge your gun likes.

There's a lot of variables in muzzleloading. It's not like cartridge guns at all. But once you shoot a big bore muzzleloader, with the sparks and smoke flying, you will be hooked.

If you want to learn more, go check this board out, the guys on there have forgotten more than I'll ever know about muzzleloaders. They even have a section called "builder's bench" that deals strictly with building your own muzzleloader:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

Garthine
January 14, 2005, 11:44 PM
Thanks for all the help yall looks like im goin for a LGPR with a 1:60 twist in a .54 cal. in a kit. think ill have a gunsmith do the browning though.

Lonestar.45
January 15, 2005, 12:35 AM
Garthine, I think that's a great choice. You can't go wrong. Be warned though, after putting it all together yourself, you'll never be satisfied with the looks of a plain ole' store bought gun again! If you're like me, you'll be wanting to refinish and take apart all your other guns! Let us know how it turns out.

Garthine
January 15, 2005, 12:45 AM
10-4 cheif, will do. :D

Keep in touch yall.

Oh almost forgot you say round balls work better on slow twist? where can I get a mould & melt`n pot for that kinda stuff? Oh yeah & gunpowder & caps? Walmart? A gunstore? Homedepot? :confused:

Lonestar.45
January 16, 2005, 02:50 PM
I get my powder and caps at a local gunshop. Walmart and places like that will not have it. Round ball is the only way to go on a slow twist barrel, if you want to be able to hit the broad side of a barn. Here's a few links for some places with tons of muzzleloader supplies:

http://www.freetrapper.com/blackjack/muzzle.htm

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/

http://www.thegunworks.com/

http://www.dixiegun.com/