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DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 01:19 PM
I got this SW 19 from my grandfather. Took it to the range today, shot a few, then something happened. sometimes the cylander wont come out, and if you try to pull the tirgger, unless you do it really slow and percise, it wont go back, and when you do get it ot pull, the hammer doesn't come back, it just moves forward a little bit. It also seems like the thing inside that turns the cylander after every shot is sticking out a bit too far than it should. And when it did fire, it wouldn't fire double action, i had to pull the hammer back each time. What is up with it?
Thanks
Dan

mete
December 8, 2004, 03:37 PM
If you know how , take the gun completely apart thoroughly clean and inspect . If all the parts are there then lightly lube and reassemble.

4V50 Gary
December 8, 2004, 04:30 PM
The ejector rod on may be unscrewing on itself. When it unscrews, the cylinder pin won't engage the locking lug to release it. Solution - the cylinder has to be removed (front screw on frame) and the rod placed in a padded vise. Empties are placed into the cylinder to keep the ejector star from tweaking. The cylinder is then tightened by hand and may be reinstalled.

Now, as to the trigger, have you released the trigger all the way? Revolvers won't rotate if they're locked up and the trigger needs to fully reset before you can depress it again for DA fire.

James K
December 8, 2004, 05:08 PM
Before taking the gun apart, try using a decent spray cleaner (not WD-40). Cock the hammer and spray the cleaner down into the gap in front of the hammer. Then spray some into the gap ahead of the trigger. Work the mechanism a bit and see what happens.

It sounds like the part S&W calls the "sear" (but which most of us would call the hammer lifter) is not engaging the trigger or the trigger is not returning fully to its forward position. That could be caused by dirt or old grease, but may also be the result of an attempt to do a "trigger job" by someone not qualified.

Anyway, if the cleaning doesn't work, come back and let's think about what else may be wrong.

Jim

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 05:33 PM
ah i think i may know what is wrong. I just got this revolver, and have never really used them before, but i decided to look and see what was inside anyway. I found out how to take out that box type thing with the spring in it behind the trigger and saw the rod that pushes the box backwards from the trigger still looked like it was ok. I have a model 28 too which i took apart to compare, and what seems to be out of wack so far is that the little lip on the trigger that goes ontop of that lip on the bottom of the hammer and under that moving part that goes on top of that lip from the trigger is out of place. It is just flowing freely and when i pull the trigger, that little lip hits the front side of that peice of metal instead of being underneith it.

That probably all sounds a bit confusing but i dont know all the names for these parts. Let me know if you are confused i will try to clarify it a litle bit

Seems like i need to get that lip of metal from the trigger underneith that peice of metal that is inbetween the hammer and the peice of metal that the back of the cylander is up against.

Thanks for not bailing on me here.
Dan

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 05:43 PM
i was just able to get that piece of lip from the trigger back into place, but when i dry fired the gun, it popped right back out of place. now it is once again pushing on that spring loaded peice of metal coming out of the front side of the hammer.

4V50 Gary
December 8, 2004, 06:02 PM
Please do a search on S&W disassembly. It'll describe the proper method for taking your revolver apart.

That box that houses the spring is called the REBOUND SLIDE. It serves to return the trigger to its position of rest after the trigger is released. It also serves as an internal safety too. That's lump on the rebound slide that the "foot" of the hammer rests on is called the "shelf." The spring inside the rebound slide is the "rebound slide spring."

Here's how the safety works. If the gun is cocked and there is not pressure on the trigger (call it a malfunction), the rebound slide spring pushes the rebound slide forward, rebounding the trigger to its position of rest. The shelf of the slide intercepts the foot of the hammer, preventing it from going all the way forward. If the hammer cannot rotate all the way forward, the firing pin will not strike the primer. That's your internal safety. This feature was on the original Taurus revolvers but they deleted it (because they make a cheaper gun that looks to be the same as the S&W - and that's why I'll always buy S&W over Taurus - unless I get one cheap).

When you dry fire the gun without the sideplate in place, it'll tend to buckle the rebound slide up. That's natural. You'll have to use a finger to keep it from popping while you work the action.

Some more digression. The hammer has several parts. Ignoring the rivet that holds the firing pin, look further down and you'll see the spring loaded part. That's your Double Action Sear. When the trigger is pressed back, the "lip" as you call it rotates up and engages the bottom of the sear. This causes the hammer to cam back towards the cocked position. Further pressure on the trigger causes the hammer to rotate further to the rear such that the trigger disengages the sear. With no upward pressure against the sear, the hammer is pulled back to its position of rest by the leaf spring (via the stirrup) or to put it simply, pressure from the leaf spring forces the hammer forward. The hammer slams forward with the firing pin striking the primer. Boom.

When you release the trigger, the rebound slide spring pushes the rebound slide forward. This forces the trigger forward to its position of rest. As the rebound slide moves forward, the shelf engages the foot of the hammer and forces it slightly back and in so doing withdraws the firing pin from the firing pin hole. The hammer comes to rest atop the rebound slide shelf at about the same time the rebound slide comes to a stop.

Please bear this in mind when you reassemble your revolver. Since you have two and you've already done so, examine the 2nd one but don't play with it until you've reassembled your first one.

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 06:19 PM
Thanks that made things alot more clear and gave me a bit more knowledge of termanology on things. I fixed up everything up to what it should look like, and what is happening is that, once that "lip" of the trigger raises the double action sear, the hammer goes back, then boom. BUT the "lip" doesn't go back underneith the double action sear like it is supposed to. it comes out from inbetween and is now making contact with the double action sear right on the front side of it. When i try to pull the trigger, the hammer just moves foward, and the lip of the trigger peice is not undernieth the double action sear. Hm.......as much as i hate that it isn't working, i am deffinatly understanding alot about this gun that i wouldn't have probably ever known if it didn't break! i appreciate the help.
Dan

4V50 Gary
December 8, 2004, 06:45 PM
When the trigger is fully released (finger off the trigger) does the trigger return to its position of rest? If not, then examine the rebound slide spring, and the bar on the trigger that rebound slide pushes on. That bar should be straight. Also check the trigger for free motion. Is it hanging up on the cylinder stop? If the trigger & rebound slide is OK, then it may be the hammer.

First, remove the hammer and test the sear. See if it springs back naturally when depressed of if it's sticky. If the latter, hit it with solvent to loosen it. If that doesn't work, you may have to place it on a benchblock and use a pin to drive it out; taking care not to lose the coil sear spring which rests behind the sear (and in a hole in the hammer). Bench block? Well, you can use a 2 x 4 with a hole drilled into it. That'll allow you to drive the sear pin out without driving the pin into your dining room table. Check the spring for kinks by rolling it on a flat surface. You'll see it if it kinked.

If that isn't the problem, then I'm wondering if the DA sear was not fitted. If the sear is too long (and it's not just the trigger not returning to its position of rest), then it may have to be shortened.

However, since you mentioned that it works at times, I suspect that it's related to the trigger and rebound slide.

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 07:23 PM
There are a few odds things i recognized when looking at this. I have noticed that after i pul the hammer back or at least on the single action part, the lip of the trigger metal pushes up on the double action sear, and when the hammer goes forward, the lip on the trigger doesn't go back inbetween that lip on the hammer and the bottom part of the double action sear. Also, i see that the cylander lock peice of metal which is on the front side of the trigger, well the lip on the trigger doesn't aways go back into that mouth part on the cylander lock thing.

Another thing i noticed is that the rebound slide is not bmaking cear flush contact with the trigger as it does in the model 28 that i have. there is about a milimeter or so of space inbetween. Because of this, the spot on the rebound slide and the bottom of the hammer are not making contact like in the model 28 which is all in working order.

Also, when everything is in place, there seems to be play in the hammer. The model 28 hammer is extremly tight in place but the model 19 that i am trying to fix, the hammer moves probably 4-5 milimeters when i pull back on it a little.

I hope you haven't run out of ideas on what might be wrong yet.
Dan

4V50 Gary
December 8, 2004, 07:28 PM
Rebound slide. It must go all the way forward. Be sure it's installed properly. If it isn't, it can be the reason why your trigger isn't returning to its position of rest and since it's not returning to its position of rest, it doesn't disengage the sear.

Got a digital and can you post pics?

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 07:35 PM
I've got a broken digitial cam. give me an hr or so. i will see if i can get one off a friend.
Thanks for your help so far. I just took the hammer out and the sear sure seems like it is good working order. Give me a bit i'll see if i can get some pictures up.
Dan

4V50 Gary
December 8, 2004, 07:41 PM
I want to see the relation between the rebound slide and the trigger.

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 08:13 PM
You can see a little space between the slide rebound and the trigger. Also, the hammer is like so far out of the gun that is almost like cocked a little bit as you can see in the picture. look how far out the hole is. The hole in the hammer on my model 28 is like only showing half of the circle.

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 08:31 PM
Here is a closeup. You can see how the lip of the trigger is hitting the front of the double action sear

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 08:40 PM
looks like my trigger may have been moved backwards. It isn't in that cylander catch mouth area and if it were forward, the tip on the slide rebound would probably be under the bottom of the hammer better.

4V50 Gary
December 8, 2004, 08:48 PM
The cylinder stop (that pop up thingy in front of the trigger) isn't the problem.

Trying pushing down on the forward portion of the rebound slide. See if it snaps into place and that the trigger returns all the way forward to its position of rest. If it does, then tell me whether the tail of the trigger falls into place below the sear.

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 09:12 PM
Yeah the spring is moving freely. The hammer is far from where it should be. probably 5 milimeters from where it should be stationary. But it can't go in any further because there is contact between rebound slide and the hammer

DanV1317
December 8, 2004, 09:19 PM
Maybe the hammer is worn and it wont allow the hammer to go back far enough to let the trigger sear go on top of the hammer sear.

4V50 Gary
December 8, 2004, 09:36 PM
OK, take it apart again and put it back together. Pay particular attention to the installation of the rebound slide. I suspect it's not lining up correctly.