View Full Version : What do you know about the P90

October 1, 2004, 12:59 PM
All I know is that is a weapon developed for defence (PDW). I also know that it has a 5.7 bullet and has about 50 in a clip. It is smaller that a 9mm MP5 and more powerfull than the UMP45. It can peice 48 layers of kevlar and a stanerd infanty helmet. Do you now any thing els.

October 1, 2004, 03:36 PM
Uh-oh. Let me jump in before anyone else and point out that it is a 'magazine' not a clip.

Nitpicks aside, the P90 is a radical design that has problems and bonuses. As far as bonuses go, yes it is compact and it has a large ammo capacity. High rate of fire, low recoil, empty cases ejecting from bottom, and excellent armor penetration are key factors.

On the downsides it is designed to be fired tucked in under the arm and sighting down the barrel. Now this is ideal obviously, but in a SHTF scenario where you may have to discharge your firearm from a one hand stance at anything other than the ideal method above, you encounter problems. Now one asks, who fires their gun one-handed? A guy who is carrying a comrade fireman style but still needing to lay down fire, a guy with one arm shot, a guy who is laying down suppressive fire without exposing his whole body from behind cover, etc . . . .

Another downside includes the awkward magazine location - on top of the firearm. Anyone who has had to quick change a firearm knows the ideal location is in the handle of the firearm under the 'hand finds hand' proof. By that I mean that in the absolute dark you can 100% find your left hand with yoru right hand and vice versa. Barring that, having the magazine well directly in front of your hand is the next best step. Of course anyone who trains with a firearm non-stop will be much more familiar, but I am generalizing a bit.

As far a power, thats a relative thing. Would I consider this tiny little round (about .22) to be more powerful than a .45? No way. Will it penetrate better and fly straighter trajectory (as it has very high velocity)? Yes. But that 5.7mm is more likely to punch through the target and not deliver all its kinetic energy to the target, as opposed to the .45 which will deliver much more mass AND deliver the energy to the target. Obviosuly being hit in the head will kill you equally - the .45 wont do it twice as well. But hitting a long bone (like a leg) with a 5.7mm will most likely deflect while the .45 will shatter.

Take all this with a grain of salt. I think they P90's are really cool. And there are people out there with WAY more experience/knowledge than I. Bu that is how I interpret it.

October 1, 2004, 04:49 PM
Ok it may not be as powerfull as a 45. cal round but it dose have its ups. As far as the magazines, it is pretty esay to remove with one or half a hand.

October 1, 2004, 10:42 PM
Oh sure, not disputing its EASE of changing the magazine. Just disputing its placement on the firearm and whether it would be very easy to navigate in the dark.

Again, positing worst case scenarios. I like the gun lots and would love to get a SBR version if the civvy version is a possibility. Never got a chance to shoot one but handled it a few times at AUSA shows. Overall a big fan of FN products.

4V50 Gary
October 1, 2004, 10:53 PM
Shot it several times. It may be tucked beneath the arm, but that renders the sights useless. The factory sights are designed to be used when the arm is shouldered. While NDs are possible, if the user is trained and practices safe handling, it shouldn't happen. I didn't find the fore-grip conducive to NDs as the dominant hand grasps it first (point of balance mandates it).

The magazine is novel on in the aspect that the bullets are stored perpendicular to the chamber. The way the plastic is molded rotates the cartridge into position to be fed. No fancy mechanism - just good thinking & execution.

BTW, I signed up for an armorers' course expecting to be shown how to work on the FN pistol that shoots the same cartridge. Instead they show up with some FN P90s. No one walked out :rolleyes: and we were delighted at the "mistake." Too bad they didn't give us certificates for discounted guns. I'd have bought one. :p

October 1, 2004, 11:11 PM

"The SS190 has unique design, utilizing two metal inserts. The tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after 2 inches of penetration."

Would it not after pentrating a vest begin to tumble, since its going through flesh, hit the back of the best and ricochet back inside to do more bodily damage?

I've gotta add in here though, 2100fps even as a pistol round makes this thing really stand out imho. I know when a guy at a local shop down here shown me a Fiveseven and its corresponding ammunition I about flipped out at how amazingly light it was and the design of the cartridge!

October 3, 2004, 04:42 PM
First, go here for pics I've collected: Pics of FN P-90 In Use (Not for 56k) (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=176451&page=1�)

For any of those who doubt its performance, read the following from another poster:

As one who has actually used the P90 for tactical operations I can say that it is a devastating round despite its small size. From our initial training, I recall the fact that no one has survived being shot by the P90.

The other folks before me summed up the rest of the gun's features fairly well. A couple more points though:

- Low recoil would increase hit accuracy.
- Terminal ballistics doesn't matter anyway when you have 50 rounds on hand and you're shooting them at 900 RPM.
- Terminal ballistics of 9mm or .45 are useless against an armored target.
- Fully Ambidextrous
- Downward ejection can be both good and bad: I've heard it can be a problem to have shells land right where you will be placing your feet if you move. But I guess that's better than ejecting them out the side into your face. :D
- Extremely reliable. This one is a surprise, given the magazine design.
- Won't overpenetrate. This round gets 11 to 13.5 inches flesh penetration when fired from the P-90. Another surprise.

Lastly, here is a great article on the P-90 that is much more informative than my post: Houston PD SWAT FN P-90 Article (http://www.trmagonline.com/Spring2003TR/spring2003experienceswiththefnp90.htm)

EDITED TO ADD: - You are correct that it will pierce 48 layers of Kevlar material, but it should also be noted that this is at a distance of 200 meters.

October 6, 2004, 12:24 PM
What else do you want to know?

It's got a longer range and more penetration in soft armor than any pistol caliber subguns.
It will shed energy quickly in most targets and yaw which limits over penetration.
If you drop a loaded magazine or a loaded gun with a magazine...you might as well forget using it...very critical failures if dropped.
We sell them, they are about $1500 per, they are post sample machine guns.
They suppress really well and they have that as a distinct advantage over the 5.56 for CQB in this regard.
They drop the cases at your feet, which isn't all that good.
Even the non AP round penetrate soft armor, it's a function of velocity and caliber and meplat.

P90 Video (http://www.cmmginc.com/vids/P90_L.mpg)

FN2000 (http://www.cmmginc.com/vids/FN2000_L.mpg)

October 6, 2004, 02:45 PM
If you drop a loaded magazine or a loaded gun with a magazine...you might as well forget using it...very critical failures if dropped.

Have you personally experienced this problem? I've heard alot of people bring it up, but never heard from someone who has experienced it first-hand. Below are some posts from various boards that deny this rumor:

Worse case scenario: Drop the mag, 1 round MIGHT fall out. If you manage to break the base plate, which is highly unlikely, you could lose the ammo. This is true for any magazine. One of the FN reps I talked to fired over 85,000 rounds in demos over a 3 year period and has never heard of such a thing.
In fact when they (US Secret Service) reliability tested the P90, it had only two malfunctions in 50,000 rounds out of 5 different guns. They stated in their report form the James J. Reilly Secret Service Training Center that the P90 is the most reliable weapon ever tested by that facility.
We have fired over 10.000 rounds through the P90 and we haven't had a single jam.

BTW, great videos. What is the F-2000 like as far as reliability? I've heard its extremely reliable, but I'd like to hear your experiences as well.

October 6, 2004, 02:56 PM
Like I said, we sell them, so yes I've personally experienced it. What seems to happen is the rounds jar up in the double stack and the rotating feeder gets out of alignment. If the rounds over stack in the magazine...you have to take it off, bang on it and hope it clears...sometimes they jam up half way down the magazine then they don't feed anything in front of it.

Also if the gun is loaded with a loaded magazine, the rotating feeder will come out of alignment in some cases and jam a round "in" the gun and jam a round in the magazine.

The only real solution is to ditch the magazine and load a new one. If there is a round jammed in the feed area...it's a bit of a hassle to get out.

Shoot them and don't drop them...they work great.

Lastly you never hear that one of the other problems with these guns is they drop the cases right at your feet. Shot and move forward...shot and move forward, you are stepping on brass.

2000...it shoots...shoots well...and I have not shot one to qualify it, just casually.
Remember this, Agencies often times custom tailor the tests to favor the gun they want to buy in the first place. It's funny how the agencies looking for a weapon, or the sales reps that sell the gun never have a problem...
I seem to remember the FBI saying the 9mm was the round of the future for CQB...and all their tests proved it...then they said the 10mm...then 40 S&W....now it's 5.56....each time the data supports the choice...go figure.