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Art Eatman
November 18, 2002, 01:00 AM
A local buddy of mine got an email with the following info:

"You've got to check out the size of this bear.
Let's go hunting...The attached pictures are of a guy who works for the forest service in Alaska. He was out deer hunting. A large...large world record Griz charged him from about 50 yards away.

The guy unloaded a 7mm Mag Semi-auto into the bear and it dropped a few feet from him. The thing was still alive so he reloaded and capped it in the head.

It was over one thousand, six hundred pounds, 12'6" high at the shoulder*. It's a world record. The bear had killed a couple of other people. Of course, the game department did not let him keep it. Think about it. This thing on its hind legs could walk up to the average single story house and could look on the roof at eye level."

* Standing erect? Art

Art Eatman
November 18, 2002, 01:02 AM
Another photo.

ReefBlueCoupe
November 18, 2002, 01:05 AM
More details about that particular bear.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/deadbear.htm

Chuck Dye
November 18, 2002, 02:18 AM
Impressive bear. Impressive job of self defense. Impressive use of lens choice in tedbear1.jpg.:rolleyes:

twoblink
November 18, 2002, 03:53 AM
WOW, too bad Sarah Brady wasn't in the forest, I would have loved to see her shrill and panically ask if anybody had a gun on them...

That's one big mo-fo of a bear. I'd wet my pants if that thing came charging...

C.R.Sam
November 18, 2002, 10:51 AM
Shooter looks a bit numb...
Understandable.

Thanx Art.

Sam

Darryl Howland
November 18, 2002, 02:01 PM
Sorry guys - Here is the truth about the bear

The Truth:
Thanks to our readers, the truth about these pictures has been found. The facts are a little
different from the eRumor, but the pictures do record the results of a true hunt and are real.

The original pictures lacked the label linking them with hunting-pictures.com, but that is where
the pictures reside. They were posted by a hunter who used the nickname Dalliwacker, on
www.assaultweb.net, but who is, according to published articles, Jim Urban. He says that the
bear was actually ten feet high and weighed between 1,000 and 1,200 pounds. He says the bear
did not stand up then drop down and charge. It showed no aggression at all. He did not "empty"
his rifle into the bear. He also says the
bear was not shot on Hitchenbrook Island but, like all good hunters, he won't be specific about
where he got it

ReefBlueCoupe
November 18, 2002, 02:03 PM
More details can be found in the link I posted above also.

Keith Rogan
November 18, 2002, 02:04 PM
That is actually an "urban" myth bear. It's a middlin' sized brown bear shot by an Air Force guy on Montague (I think) Island just off the Kenai Peninsula - if not Montague it was some other island in that general area.
He had sent that picture around to friends who passed it to others, who passed it to others, etc, etc, and with each telling the story morphed into something else.

Newspapers in Alaska were chuckling about the story earlier this year and interviewed the guy who actually shot it. The only unique thing about this bear was that it was a bit large for the location it was shot. I think it was about a ten footer which is more typical of bears found further west on Kodiak or the Alaska Peninsula.

Here's an interesting true bear story:

Popular bear shot, killed on second floor of hotel
DEADHORSE: Male grizzly 'Toby' was a bit too adept at opening doors.

A male grizzly, known to oil patch workers and state biologists as Toby, dined on uneaten cheeseburgers, fries and chicken Mornay Monday night before a police officer, standing between the animal and a crowd of hotel guests, shot it. (Photo by Gregory Rintala)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click on photo to enlarge

By Doug O'Harra
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: October 16, 2002)
Up in Deadhorse, they say Toby was just a popular bear gone bad, a grizzly doomed by a knack for opening doors -- and a taste for french fries.

The big male bear well known to oil patch workers and state biologists was killed about 8:30 p.m. Monday on the second floor of the Prudhoe Bay Hotel, after it approached a police officer standing between the animal and a crowd of hotel guests.

North Slope Borough officer Don Grimes had been trying to shoo the animal toward an exit, when the bear darted into a hotel room, then reversed course, said hotel manager Joree Lawson. She had watched from the other end of the hall.

A man apparently took a picture from the stairwell nearest the bear, possibly frightening the animal further, said state biologist Dick Shideler.

When the bear was less than 10 feet away, Grimes had no choice but to fire his shotgun, Lawson said.

"It looked like he was going to charge," Lawson said. "Toby was never aggressive, but I felt it could have gotten ugly."

"I really can't make any comment other than to say that the decision was made and it was in protection of life," Grimes added later. "It wasn't a fun one."

The bear had probably gotten into the hotel through an unlatched arctic entry, Lawson said. Once upstairs, the bear nosed into rooms and rummaged through trash cans containing uneaten cheeseburgers, fries and chicken Mornay.

"I walked up and looked around the corner. He had his head in the garbage can and was sitting there eating away," said Greg Rintala, a tool salesman from Denver on a trip to the Slope. "It was more a media event" than something scary, he said.

The 710-pound, 10-year-old bear with silvery shoulder patches had a fairy-tale origin. Orphaned at age 1 when its mother was struck by a truck, Toby lived out its life as one of about 45 bears monitored by state biologists in a research project, its lime green and pink ear tags easily identified.

News of Toby's death saddened Deadhorse regulars on Tuesday, said Les Dunbar, who runs the Prudhoe Bay Post Office and pins up photographs of local celebrity bears.

"Toby, he was the big boy up here -- he was dad to most of the babies," Dunbar said.

"He was the biggest boar that people saw in the oil field," said Becky Kelleyhouse, a wildlife technician working on the state's Prudhoe Bay Grizzly Project. "He was fairly non-aggressive, and he was habituated to people. So people had a lot of pictures of him."

A few years ago, garbage bears were a major nuisance in Deadhorse, six miles from the Arctic Ocean at the entrance to the oil complex. Then North Slope Borough installed electric and chain-link fences at the landfill, and Deadhorse businesses began using bear-proof trash bins.

"There's been a remarkable turnaround," Shideler said.

But Toby had been getting bolder, entering buildings and camps, raiding food in vehicles. On Sunday, the bear was seen raiding a warehouse break room, Kelleyhouse said.

"Even if he had gone out that door (of the hotel), he had exceeded our standard of behavior," Shideler said. "He's the seventh bear we've had to kill here in this type of situation. And they're all break-ins."

After skinning out Toby and donating his meat to North Slope villages, Shideler and Kelleyhouse discovered french fries, candy wrappers and many partly digested packets of hot apple cider mix in the bear's stomach.

"He'd actually gained a little over 220 pounds over the last two months, strictly from hanging around the buildings," Kelleyhouse said.

Doug O'Harra can be reached at do'harra@adn.com and 907-257-4334.

Chuck Dye
November 18, 2002, 02:18 PM
* Standing erect? Art

Um, how 'bout bipedal mode, or upright on its hind legs? Wouldn't want to offend, or over excite, Granny!

H&H,hunter
November 18, 2002, 06:41 PM
Art.......................

Sorry dude, It's a big bear but not that big, mid sized at best. He did not charge he was shot with a .338 in the head once or twice and killed. I don't even know if he's big enough to qualify for in the top 100 for the record books.

And the best part is that the bear was shot legally on a license. A completely legit sporting kill. Kinda takes the air out of that one don't it.

If you want the facts you can speak to the hunter on WWW.huntnet.com talk to Daliwaker.

The 7mm story is Total BS the charge story is BS and whoever wrote it is an... well lets just say not a gentlemen:o

Art Eatman
November 18, 2002, 08:54 PM
I never tried to judge a bear's weight from a photo. Howsomever, anything with that big a paw, that length of claws, is not something I'm gonna walk up to and kick in the rump.

As with pickemup trucks, when you weigh around 180 pounds, there ain't a lot of difference between a half-ton and a 3/4-ton when ya get run over.

:D, Art

Keith Rogan
November 18, 2002, 09:03 PM
Check this out.

BBall550
November 19, 2002, 03:15 AM
You all have it wrong!

That "bear" was killed 17 years ago by Jim the midget. Turns out it was actually a holiday cinnimon bear passing out candy canes on 4th street in Chicago. Jim the midget clubed it to death with a half empty JD bottle. The pictures stayed private untill Jim the midgets death last year. Sadly he was electrocuted while trying to fish some toast out of the toaster while it was still plugged in. He would have lived through it except the ambulance crashed into a frozen river on the way to the hospital and sank to the bottom.

Im gonna miss that lil guy....

H&H,hunter
November 19, 2002, 03:46 PM
Bball

I can have your gun when I pry it from your tiny cold dead hand.

BBall550
November 19, 2002, 06:26 PM
:D

bronco61
November 20, 2002, 07:24 PM
Keith Rogan,

This bear was shot 10 miles from my home. (Hinchinbrook Island near Cordova) Our local wildlife biologist (TFL'er Field-dressed) has seen the paper work on this bear as well as talked with Fish and Game about it becauase there was some suspicion as to why he didn't get the skull sealed here in Cordova.

This bear is not a hoax. It squared to about 10.5 ft. I won't give the exact mearsurements as I don't remember off-hand. You can call the biologist here @ 907-424-3215 and he can give you the stats and details about the bear.

Keith Rogan
November 20, 2002, 07:45 PM
Bronc,

Yeah, I know it's a real bear. It just didn't square 12 feet or break any records like the Internet hoopla was suggesting. Bears that size are taken every year and much larger ones as well.

citizen
November 20, 2002, 10:41 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

(Not enough underwear in the world for me!)

bronco61
November 21, 2002, 01:58 PM
Keith,

Sorry, I didn't ready this line:

"It was over one thousand, six hundred pounds, 12'6" high at the shoulder*. It's a world record."

While it's a big bear that I would be super proud to have gotten, you're right that it's no freak of nature or even close to a world record.

Keith Rogan
November 21, 2002, 03:10 PM
Bronc,

Yeah, that's what I figgered.

I've measured a good number of bear hides and chatted with some of the most experienced guides in the world on the subject.

There is an honest way to measure a bear hide, but almost nobody does it any more. There is also an honest way to take a trophy picture, and that is rarely done anymore either.

If you look at the picture of the bear in question, you'll note that the guy is sitting well back from the bears head. He's doing that so the fore-shortening in the photo makes the bear look bigger. I would guess (and it's just a guess) that the bear in the photo is actually about a 9 footer and not much larger. The head is just not "square" enough to be a for-real "ten footer". And I don't see any reference to the skull size, which is the only objective means to draw a size comparison.

As for the measuring of a bear hide, cheating just a little bit will add a foot or more to the measurement. The person measuring probably doesn't even realize he is cheating because few people know how to do it, and most guides want their clients to get a "ten-footer" and use any shortcuts they can. It's good for business.

According to my old friend Hank Eaton who was one of those old-timey legendary bear guides from the 40's and 50's. An honest hide measurement is done with a green hide layed out on the ground. It is stretched out as well as possible then measured from tip of nose to tip of tail - cheaters fold out the piece of hide containing the vent to get an extra 6 or 8 inches.
Then (WITHOUT RESTRETCHING THE HIDE LATERALLY), you measure from tip of front claw to tip of front claw.

You then divide by two to get an honest square foot of the hide.

Note at the beginning that I said the hide was green. By that, I meant that it is very fresh and has not been scraped. When that hide is well scraped it will measure at least another foot and perhaps as much as an additional 18 inches.
Another method to add size is to run the tape across the curves of the hide rather than a straight measurement - you'll get several extra inches that way.

Some people just take the largest measurement (across the claws) and use that as the "size". The claw measurements will generally be 6 inches or so longer than nose to tail.

Anyway, I thought you guys might find this interesting. I don't think most people who claim to have shot a "ten-footer" are lying, I just don't think they know how to get an honest measurement.
When you hear that claim, ask what the skull measurement was. If the guy says 27 or 28 inches, he got an 8 1/2 or 9 footer. A ten footers skull will be AT LEAST 29 1/2 inches.

bronco61
November 21, 2002, 03:47 PM
Keith, you're exactly right. I called Field-dressed and he looked up the skull size in his records and it was 28.5". He says he squared it conservatively and it was approximately 10' 3". My hunting partner here used to guide for years down on Admiralty and he's noticed that bears here in the Cordova area seem to have a larger skull size than there bears down there. I think there's a good reason record books go by skull size and not what they square out to. What the bear squares out to varies greatly by who's doing it. For some silly reason, my bear squares out MUCH larger when I'm doing the measuring than when anybody else is ;)

I couldn't agree more with the photo tricks that people do. I have to admit the thought crossed my mind on my big one but the bear died on completely flat ground so we couldn't prop him up. I ended up sitting right behind his butt with his back legs going behind me.

Keith Rogan
November 21, 2002, 04:14 PM
Well, I'll point out that if a hide is measured (even by an honest and knowledgeable person) AFTER it's been fleshed, you'll get an extra foot or more to the measurement. A guy shoots a bear then spends 3 or 4 happy days trimming up and scraping the hide before his charter plane picks him up, then gets his measurement in town and it comes out ten foot plus.
I'm not suggesting there's anything dishonest about that, but that's not what the old timers meant by a ten footer.

I used to have a great trophy picture of a honest-to-goodness 10'4" bear taken by a friend a few years ago, on my website (please don't ask...). That bear (even with no camera tricks) dwarfed the bear in the photo above. The difference between a 9 foot bear and a 10 foot bear is not 10% - its more like 50% in sheer bulk and size.
As enormous as that bear was, it didn't even make B&C!

Keith

Keith Rogan
November 21, 2002, 04:42 PM
I found it!

Attached is a "for-real" ten footer taken by a friend of mine named Dwight Van Brunt in 98 or 99.
Note that there are no camera tricks here, the bears head is lying in his lap so you can see the actual scale of the beast.

This bear went 10' 4" by honest measurement, and the skull measured around 29 3/4 (I forget the precise measurement). It didn't make B&C, but it's an honest ten footer that would satisfy any of the old timers.

Keith Rogan
November 21, 2002, 04:44 PM
For some reason, the jpeg wasn't recognized as a good file. I'll try again...

dZ
November 22, 2002, 05:35 PM
i seen bigger:

:D

joab
November 22, 2002, 10:04 PM
These same photos, along with a story about how an airman on guard duty in Alaska was attacked by the bear (He stood his ground and killed the bear with a G.I.45), was posted by a dealer at a recent gun show in Orlando.Guess what kind of guns he was selling.

Keith Rogan
November 24, 2002, 05:33 PM
Did anyone note the difference between the photo of the really big bear I posted and the "middlin" bear we started with?

It's really hard to judge bears, but the really big males have a squarish head while smaller ones are more tapered in appearance - sort of like a black bear.

I think the photo's in this thread illustrate that pretty well.

dZ
November 24, 2002, 08:12 PM
heres some more big bruins:
www.dgoa.com/newsletter.htm

notice how the sit back from the head and use a long lens

the guy on the log looks like he is an arms length back from the plane of the hide