Primary Home Defense Weapon System

[Sweatnbullets]

Taking everything into consideration... incapacitation, overpenetration, speed, accuracy, reliability, weapon retention, and ease of use. What would you prefere for your primary home defense weapon? Handgun, shotgun, or a AR15/.223? And Why?

[itgoesboom]

Shotgun for several reasons.

1. Most versatile. It can handle almost any threat in your home.
2. Different levels of power available to you, from slugs, to 00 buckshot, birdshot, even bean bags.
3. Easy to hit with. I dont know anyone that cant hit at short range with a shotgun. They might have to go down to 20 ga, but thats still effective.
4. Scare the **** out of your attacker. Nothing is as scary as facing down the barrell of a loaded 12ga. Except maybe when its slide is racked. So the shear intimidation factor.


I.G.B.

[Hkmp5sd]

Yep, like itgoesboom said, the shotgun is the best selection for a primary home defense weapon. Even the dumbest crook in the country knows what the sound of a shell being racked into the chamber sounds like.:)

[jmlv]

best for close quayters. shotgun is artillery for static defence from saferoom. roving burgler alarms also tend to attack strangers<G>
Roving Burgler Alarms:

[pbarrick]

My preference is for the AR-15. It's got more ammunition capacity, less recoil and it's easier to hit with than a shotgun. 5.56mm is also less likely to overpenetrate a Bad Guy at close quarters distances (it's less likely to overpenetrate than a 9mm, in fact) because it dumps all it's energy into the target and breaks up during entry.

It's entirely possible to miss with a shotgun at close range. The shot column doesn't start to disperse until it's somewhere around 7 yards out and most fights occur well within 7 yards. That means you've got a .72 (12-gauge) carbine with 8 or so shots, regardless of whether it's loaded with bird shot, tactical buckshot or a slug.

Weapon retention with a long arm is an issue whether it's a shotgun or a rifle. Retention skills, empty-hand skills and/or the ability to transition to another weapon (knife, stick, pistol, etc.) are all critical to successful weapon retention at close quarters.

[CMichael]

Shotgun.

With a handgun it can take multiple bullets to stop an assailant. Once blow from a shotgun they assailant is stopped -- period.

If I am defending my wife or my family from imminent harm, I want to use something that has the best chance of getting the job done as quickly as possible.

Michael

[CMichael]

I wanted to add that it's easier to hit the target with a shoulder held weapon than a hand held weapon.

And that makes a differences too.

Michael

[wingnutx]

Handgun first(.45 Sig 220), since it is easiest for me to grab and be instantly ready with. If I determine that I have time, then I grab my shotgun.

My AR-15 may replace the shotgun, once I get a shorter upper and decent sights. It's easier for my tiny little girlfriend to fire, too.

[yorec]

Depends on the home to be defended, level of competence of those doing the defending, and what kind of yard is around the home.

Less trained people are more comfortable with shotguns - they're ultra reliable and easy to use in addition to thier great offensive qualities. Good fight stop power and theres that intimidating shotgun slide rack that has grown to its legendary status. So I give the shotgun the nod for the best all around home defense weapon.

Handguns are a backup for a longgun. That's about it excepting for some real scarey "tunnel rat" stuff that I'd not really call defense of the home. Their real value is concealability for sticking behind your leg when going to answer the door or carrying in a waistband when you've heard a bump in the night and don't really expect it to be more than the dog knocking over his water bowl again.

Short carbines in .223, wether AR 15, Mini 14, AK 74 or some other platform, are loud and will cause hearing loss when fired indoors. Other than that they do everything a homedefense long arm should do - quick incapacitation of a threat, smaller chance of overpenetration, multiple strike capability, great accuracy at short or longer ranges, etc...

So my recommend for folks choosing a home defense gun from scratch for the first time is get a shotgun. It'll do the job wonderfully. Then get a handgun for backup purposes and general carry when the shotgun gets left in the closet. And finally get a carbine in .223 when you've leared to be proficient with the other two and have identified areas in defense area that may need a carbine's unique abilities.

Anyone jumping uninvited into my saferoom at home will find my wife waiting with a 12 ga Mossberg 500 loaded with #4 buck and myself with an AR 15 loaded with 55 gr SP. I doubt they'll ever have the chance to find out what kind of handguns we each carry to supplement the main arms.

[vulcan]

I would choose a handgun for these reasons:
1)easier to wield & clear tight corner with
2)can be hidden in pocket when answering the door
3)frees one hand to turn on switches, dial phone, & carry children
I also would pick a revolver because:
1)squeeze trigger again instead of racking slide for dud round
2)no safety or slide to operate(especially if woke up from sleep)
3)also easy for wife to use if I'm away

A auto pistol is also fine if you & wife are very familiar with controls.

[KeithC]

I'll buck the trend a little and go with a handgun, if only because I'm defining "primary" as "the thing you're most likely to have if there's an issue". I think the shotgun wins for "best overall choice" but I tend to putter around the house alot during the day and live in a fairly residential area. It's way easier - and more discrete - to wander around with a pistol in my waistband than it is to tote the ol' 1300 everywhere.

Tactically, I'm also in a good spot. The dogs sleep in the bedroom, the wife has her own .357, we lock the bedroom door every night, we don't have kids yet and there's a chime alert on all the windows and exterior doors. If something subtle wakes us up, we've got good mutual coverage. If something not-so-subtle wakes us up, we've got 9-1-1 and enough speedloaders to keep us busy until the cops show up.

If I lived further out in the boonies and/or was more concerned about LEO response, it would be a different story.

Keith C.

[flinch_of_gt]

While the shotgun is the preferred CQB weapon of most people, my Persuader would probably be the last weapon I would grab to defend my home. Under stress, shotguns frustrate the heck out of me. My tactical reloads are terribly slow, my follow-up shots aren't very fast, and I don't practice enough with my scattergun to be proficient in a life-or-death situation.

My philosophy revolves around one principle: defend yourself with the gun that you are most comfortable and proficient with.

In my case, that's a shorty AR and a Sig P228.

[Sweatnbullets]

You guys know your stuff. I am a new member coming over from another forum and I think I found a home here.

Personally I have a HG on the night stand, but it's just there till I get to my 590A1 with a Surefire forend in the closet.

I've been reconsidering my choice, due to the overpenetration problems of the shotgun. I've been taking a number of carbine courses lately and feel the AR15/.223 is better choice for me for two reason. (1) the number of family members that live at my house (2) the layout of the house that could require a 20-25 yard shot.
Rule four and overpenetration is my biggest concern.

Another consideration would be in the case of a hostage situation. I know the pattern of my shotgun, but every once in a while you can get a "flyer". I would be much more confident in a hostage rescue shot with my AR.

[flinch_of_gt]

Consider this:

www.ammo-oracle.com

The definitive guide to 5.56mm NATO and .223 Remington loads.

[Sweatnbullets]

The definitive guide to 5.56mm NATO and .223 Remington loads.

Thanks, good info.

If you haven't seen this yet, check out
http://thecurmudgeon.freeservers.com/fa-index.html

Go to AR15 advocacy then articles/info. Great essay:

Benifits of the .223 cartridge in contempory police work.

Also good ballistic tests and comparisons info.

[Hard Ball]

A .45ACP automatic loaded with 11 rounds of JHP. If I had to chosse between a rifle and a shotgun, I would pick the rifle.

[Mannlicher]

again, somewhat against the grain, I keep my .30 M1 Carbine handy. Two 15 round mags on the butt, and a 30 in the mag well. The 110 JSP rounds are more than adequate around the house.

I keep several shotguns on hand, Mossberg 590, Remmy 870, but I really like the handy little Carbine.

[tag]

G-19 with a M3 flashlight attached on the nightstand, shotgun just a few steps away. The reason for this is simple: the handgun is easier to grab and use while lying on my back. I would use the handgun in the event that the burgular had made into my house and I was caught by suprise. If I had time, I would transition to the shotgun and pass the 19 off to the wife.

[Gomez]

For me, the AR platform is a "no-brainer". I used to be a big shotgun fan, but I can no longer think of one single thing that the shotgun does as well as, or better than, a compact .223.

The AR:

is shorter, lighter and handier.

has a greater ammo capacity.

has less recoil.

has better sighting options.

has less penetration.

has greater operationaly commonality with my pistol.

Sure it's noisy, but so's a shotgun.

It costs more than my shotgun. Big whoop.
Its less-PC than my shotgun, but then my shotgun isn't very PC.:)

[wingnutx]

I've been reconsidering my choice, due to the overpenetration problems of the shotgun.

You can also just switch to smaller buckshot. I go with #3, Federal Personal Defense rounds.

[Melos]

Gomez,

Re

a compact .223
For those of us who have no experience with rifles,
can you make recommendations re brand, options, etc.?

My experience is limited to 870s and revolvers...

[PeterGunn]

I completely understand the desire to have THE most effective weapon available to defend one's domain, but I have made my selection based on another factor.

I have 3 levels of firearm defence in my home all of which will hopefully allow me to retreat in the master bedroom. The master is the eaisest room to defend in my home as the bed seperates the me from the door and allows me to access the phone and more effective weaponry.

First, I am usually always armed when in my home. I ususally have a SIG 225 or 226 in 9mm on my hip. When asleep, I have a Kahr E-9 under my pillow in condition 3, or a Bersa series 95 in condition 2 with the safety on. On my wifes side of the bed, I keep the SIGs and a S&W 4506 with 4 spare mags ready to go. A cell phone usually is not to far away.

No long guns or shotguns in the bunch, and no .357 or .44 revolvers in the mix either. Why? First, once in the bedroom my target will have to pursue me through a standard door frame. My target is limited and should be easily hit given the circumstances. Second, I dont follow the "One-Shot-Stop" garbage that seems to be so purvasive today, because I double and triple tap all targets. Three, No BG is worth my hearing. I have fired shotguns, and rifles at indoor ranges and am certain would cause permanent damage if fired indoors with no hearing protection (which is the likely senario). Handguns may cause some loss, but not nearly what is certainly to accompany more powerful weaponry.

Is this a compromise??? You bet!!! One that I am fully aware of. But with the time and energy put into an effective home defence plan, I believe that the short comings are addressed.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gomez]

Melos:

Most of the major vendors are making decent AR15 platforms, so I wouldn't get wrapped up on brand. Armalite, Bushmaster, CAV-15, DPMS,Rock River Arms, even Olympic Arms all offer suitable products.

For a standard production AR, I've been impressed with the Rock River Arms M4 Tactical Entry model. It's as short and light as you're going to find. And it's, pretty much, "good-to-go" as is.

http://rockriverarms.com/m4_entry_tactical.htm

I'd probably add a Fobus/First Samco M33 handguard set, mount it sideways and attach a SureFire 6P, so I've got a whitelight source. And then, after my budget had recovered from buying the AR, I'd pick up a good optic. I'm partial to the Trijicon Reflex with the 12.5MOA triangle and, also, to the EO Tech HoloSight. After that, all's that left (on the equipment end) is a sling, spare mags and ammo.

And then, of course, train, train, train

[Melos]

Many thanks, Gomez.

[HS/LD]

870 w/ surefire


HS/LD

[Sweatnbullets]

In one of my recent carbine courses the instructor was giving his opinion on what a devastating round the .223 was due to it's "fragmentation" traits. He was also saying that many of the SWAT and Special Operation Response Teams were going away from their MP5's and going to the M4's/.223 for house clearing operations.

I immediately began to question my choice of a primary home defense weapon, which was my 590A1. Since then I've been researching the subject and asking the opinions of the professionals.

I have come to the conclusion, as have many of the experts out there, that the AR15 platform is an outstanding choice as a primary home defense weapon. Due to the facts and information that are on this thread (and others) I have decided that.... For me, and my tactical situation the AR15/.223 is definitely the best choice as my primary home defense weapon.

I have been formally training with my rifle on a regular basis, but now I need to train with the knowledge that this is my "go to" gun.

[racegunner]

I see many have posted in favor of the 5.56mm AR type carbine. It is a nice ergonomical weapon. Handles very nice, it's reliable, but....How many of you have actually shot someone with one or even know someone who has experience doing so?

I know a cop who popped a guy with an AR this year and the results were not confidence inspiring! The target stood there until he bled out enough, passed out and then was cuffed...ten minutes after being shot! This was captured on the in-car video. No, he didn't hit center mass, but you think you will 100% in your underwear at 3:30am? I have heard stories from aquaintences' first hand accounts of 5.56 achieving less than spectacular close range results, not "stories" from second hand "brother's buddy's barber etc". A doctor I know from Singapore witnessed first hand; a guy in the Sing. military shoot himself to avoid further service...only he didn't shoot himself in the foot he leaned over the barrel and gut shot himself. Result: small hole in, small hole out. He lived and is paralized as the spine was hit. But no big energy dump! No huge internal damage. If he wasn't unlucky enough to hit his spine he'd be good as new today.

I am a big AR fan, I really do like the rifle and it has a purpose, but just not home defense. Shooting and wounding an enemy at 400meters is different than stopping some crackhead at your bedroom door.
Think about this; 5.56 hit to extremity...what happens? Not much usually. What about an arm or leg hit with 12ga 00 buck at household distances? You may think you can get center mass in a gun fight and your betting your life on that. But when the SHTF and the target and you are moving it's a whole new dynamic. You might be lucky to get an arm hit. EDIT (addition); I'm not implying here that it is easier to hit with a 12ga, just that 5.56 is not that great if you don't hit center mass, but 12ga has a greater ability to do damage without hitting center mass at close range. Sorry for not making that clear previously.
For close-in damage nothing within reason compares to the 12ga. Why do you think the Europeans wanted the good old American shotgun banned from trench warfare? These guys were used to seeing hits with 8mm Mauser and 30-06, yet considered the 12ga so devistating that it might be considered banned from warfare!!!

Wake up and look at real world events. Pet your AR, take it to the range, feed it well, but leave it in the safe when your front door gets kicked in.

[Gomez]

Racegunner Said:

I have heard stories from aquaintences' first hand accounts of 5.56 achieving less than spectacular close range results, not "stories" from second hand "brother's buddy's barber etc".

So your second hand stories should have more weight than someone else's second hand stories?:D

There are numerous stories of people being shot with 12g and not stopping their actions. If you can hold it and shoot it, it does not have stopping power. Stopping Power is a myth. A longarm is more likely to stop someone than a pistol, but neither are guarenteed. In the story of your friend shooting the bad guy with an AR and getting a marginal hit, would a marginal hit with a 12g have had different results? Probably not.

At home defense distances, a shotgun loaded with shot, is basically a .72 caliber rifle. It is quite easy to miss, if you believe that you just need to point the shotgun in his general direction and let fly a thundbolt of death (as some have described the 12g). And a shotgun, even with "Tactical Buck", has much greater recoil than an AR and the system will require more manipulation to keep it in the fight than an AR.

[Bogie]

Cut down to legal length J. Stevens 235 double-barrel 12 gauge. Telephone/cell phone is weapon #1 (if possible, let the cops deal with it), intimidation is weapon #2 (gotta love those twin railroad tunnels at the end of the thing), and having to pull the triggers is #3...

[racegunner]

Sorry Gomez, my point about first hand accounts is that I know the source of information and make my decisions based on real accounts of people I know were invovled in or witnessed shootings not read about in SWAT magazine. I'm not into arguing semantics, just firearms. So to you it's second hand..:rolleyes:

It was also mentioned: "would a marginal hit with a 12g have had different results? Probably not. "
Wanna bet? a blast of 00 buck at 5 feet in the upper leg...are you kidding? the .223 went in and out without hitting bone or vein...I bet one of the nine buckshot would have a much better chance finding a target. It is possible the leg would have been removed. I've seen that happen with 7.62mm on a lower leg hit.

"It is quite easy to miss, if you believe that you just need to point the shotgun in his general direction..."
I am not an instructor, but I do quite well with my Benelli, 000 buck and slugs thanks.

If you can get through "Vom Krieg" then you can certainly re-read my previous thread without bias this time. I agree on your points that the AR handles better, I even came to that conclusion on my own. I like the carbine, there just isn't one I like to rely on for close defense...maybe the Hk SL7 in .308. I like my FAL carbine too.

and "a shotgun loaded with shot, is basically a .72 caliber rifle"
You got that right, sir! And an AR15 is basically a .22 if I am to apply that logic. I'll take the .72cal any day.:)

Now, outside running between cover and firing beyond 50 feet, I'll take an AR15, better yet an M4. I just feel it is better in most situations just not from the bed to the door...good not best.

Anyone else think I'm off the mark here?

[Double Naught Spy]

Somebody gets a solid COM shot with a .223 55 gr slug at close range and maybe it fragments and does a lot of damage and maybe not. Basically, you are hoping for the shotgun effect where one shot produces numerous wound channels and does a lot of tissue damage.

Somebody gets a solid COM shot with a 12 ga in 00 buckshot and there is no doubt that there is massive damage, multiple wound channels, etc.

Am I missing something here? My primary home defense weapon is a shotgun, but I just have a weapon. What is it I need to make is a primary home defense weapon SYSTEM and what benefits do a system offer over just a weapon?

[Cowdogpete]

Remington 870.

20 barrell with rifle sights, wood furniture, tube extension, butt stock shell carrier. No other mods.

[LBC]

Shotgun. I've got two dogs to take care of matters downstairs.
I don't plan on doing any "house clearing," so I'm committed to static defense defending the staircase/bedroom door. Cell phone by the bed, Surefire flashlight, wife with S&W 686, me with Mossberg. Come in the door or window, long gun goes "boom."

[seeker_two]

Posted by Cowdogpete

20 barrell with rifle sights...


!!!20 BARRELS!!! :eek:

Bet THAT'S a load of firepower...http://216.40.249.192/mysmilies/contrib/sarge/BoomSmilie_anim.gif

[Sweatnbullets]

racegunner,
Well, it took 26 posts, but, we all knew it would start. Someone always has to force there opinion down everyone elses throats. The "my weapon is the best and my caliber is better than yours" argument is so old and worn out.

The question was what primary home defense weapon system :rolleyes: do you prefer? Not which one you think we all should be using. For 26 post everyone else just said what they prefered and exchanged information, not "my ways the best way."

You have no idea what our tactical situation might be. Information like where you live, how big is your house, how many people live in your house, what are their locations, how close are your neighbors, do you have a dog, do you have one arm, are you going to barricade and call 911, do you have to secure non-combatant family members, or are you going to pull a Rambo and clear your house?

Since you do not know any of our pertinent information you have no clue why we would prefer one weapon system :eek: (I said it again!) over another. Maybe you could ask! :confused: Instead you see things from one point of view and assume that you know what's best for everyone else.

You may like to argue firearms, but, your arguing without a clue!
:p

Did you read any of the suggested websights to try to understand why some people might be opting for the .223? It appears not.

[Cowdogpete]

Seeker_2

You DON'T want to pull the trigger on all twenty at once.

:) :D :)

[GSMD Fan]

This is an interesting thread. For home defense I have a system. First an foremost I try to find best neighborhood I could afford. Then get to know my neighbors, they have weapons are are great LP/OPs for me.
Then I have a little terrier mix, alert and loud. She wakes up the 120 lb back up dog, now he is loud and usually hungry. Then the home alarm with door/window chimes kick in. At that point wife is calling reinforcements (911). The 92G is with me always. If I have time grab the Mossberg 500 near the bed. OO Buck here we go (.72 caliber rifle or not that gun means GAME ON).

I would like to comment on one thing. Some folks have said the 12 guage pump is the best weapon for beginners. I do not know if that is true. Three gun matches never lie. I have often seen beginners shoot a pump. Racking the slide quickly for follow on shots can be tricky. I am sure others have seen it too, short stroking happens especially under pressure.
Nothing aginst the 12guage pump mind you. I just think it does require practice.

Someone had a thread once. The question was, you know that a matchete (ax, chainsaw, whatever) wielding maniac was coming through a door 10 ft away. What weapon would you want in your hands. I still think pump 12 guage is a very valid answer. I don't know if I would have the faith in my little bushie. That bullet is just so small. Anyway something to think about before you go to bed

:)

[Sweatnbullets]

Am I missing something here? My primary home defense weapon is a shotgun, but I just have a weapon. What is it I need to make is a primary home defense weapon SYSTEM and what benefits do a system offer over just a weapon?

System: a group of elements that interact and function together as a whole.

Obviously, you did miss something.

I'd probably add a Fobus/First Samco M33 handguard set, mount it sideways and attach a SureFire 6P, so I've got a whitelight source. And then, after my budget had recovered from buying the AR, I'd pick up a good optic. I'm partial to the Trijicon Reflex with the 12.5MOA triangle and, also, to the EO Tech HoloSight. After that, all's that left (on the equipment end) is a sling, spare mags and ammo.

Sounds like a weapon system to me, and I can definitly see what benefits this system offers over just a weapon. :D Don't you?

[Erik]

Don't know about it being a system or anything, but my Remington 870 serves as my weapon of choice, followed by my SA Gov't 1911.

[Bogie]

The most important thing is mindset. Plan, prepare, and play.

Then, if something happens, throw out the plan (grin), and just do it.

My plan is call for help (if possible), attempt to convince the creep to vacate the premises (if possible), and the last resort is to have to clean my apartment.

[TERRY8mm]

After much thought and experimenting with guns and loads I have gone to the following for in the home weapons;

1.12ga. pump with "bb" shot, full bandolier hanging from the wall rack (weapon is put on a wall rack and returned to safe in morning). Tactical light is attached to mag tube.

2. .38 sp./3" barrell, first 3 chambers are shotshells, last 3 +P 158gr. wadcutters.

The .38 is primarily the wife's. The shotshells are as close to point and squeeze as you can find for the average size room. The pellets will most likely blind any attacker across the room and at closer distances an upper body hit will cause massive damage.
She and I have practiced with this gun and load for several years, and the pellet count on 20' and less targets is very good.

[weerwolf]

I'dd prefer a .410 shotgun like the mossberg homedefender with a pistol grip if possible. I'dd also suggest a double action .38sp revolver.

[HS/LD]

Fire first ask questions of the corpse.

12 gauge 00 magnum Buck

Oh, my all new Winchester Defender in politically correct fluro-orange day-glow green.

I defy ANYONE to hold their "super-duper weapon system" of choice stand in the door way of my bedroom and try to return fire after I have nailed them with a "magic death dealing thunderbolt" from Winnie.

Regards,
HS/LD

[Madison_Blue]

No kids in the house, just the little woman and myself. Bedroom has a reinforced oak door and turn bolt with a steel frame. Cell phone, Surefire Executive and a Gunvault with a S&W 686+ .357 and ammo make it likely no unwanted intruders will make it in before the LEOs arrive. If things get real bad the padlocked footlocker under the bed with the Maadi ARM AK and a few loaded mags will further deter entry. All the other firearms are in the safe.

Being in the burbs I don't have too many fears that once help is called it won't be too long before it arrives. Most B&Es will take off ASAP if they realize the cops are inbound. Home invasions with more nefarious intent (aka Wichita Massacre) are the primary concern for armed response. I've considered keeping a hidden small handgun (J Frame or Makarov) somewhere around the house as well I can get to quickly if needed.

[Abaddon]

Shotgun is most effective in terms of terminal ballistics (overpenetration issues are easily resolved by different choices of ammo). It is also most reliable and easier for most people to use. That said, I think that if I had small children I would use a handgun. This is because if I had to move them from one area of the house to a safer area I could still operate the firearm fairly easily.

Jeff

[CMichael]

HS >>12 gauge 00 magnum Buck

Oh, my all new Winchester Defender in politically correct fluro-orange day-glow green.

I defy ANYONE to hold their "super-duper weapon system" of choice stand in the door way of my bedroom and try to return fire after I have nailed them with a "magic death dealing thunderbolt" from Winnie.<<

Who says you will fire first? If you get it hit first with 3" #4 Turkey Load you ain't gonna fire anything again -- ever!

Michael

[T-Rex]

First line of defense is a 25Lb Maine Coon cat that always likes to "play" with guests by pouncing from the fridge top. Goes by the name "Muishelovka"

Second: A big easily opened back door for us to haul butt out of. Call me a wuss, but there's nothing (breathing things excepted) in my house worth dying for.

After that: Mossberg 590 Defender loaded with Buck. Python with Glasers.

Room mates with guns and phones of their own.

[LeadPumper]

Mindset,
Planning,
Low crime rate community,
Know thy neighbors,
Well lite exterior,
Locked windows and doors,
Dog,
High speed low drag tactical illumination device,
Cell phone,
12 Gauge with double ought buck,
Backup (wife) with revolver (.38+P Gold Dots).

Comforting.

Sleep Well.

-LeadPumper

[Admiral Thrawn]

Benelli M3 semi-auto/pump-action 12ga. with slugshots.

[Tamara]

Closest to hand: Beretta 96D
Next closest to hand: Remington 870

[75SIZZLER]

I don't know where you live but I feel that if anyone got past my 3 Amigos I could handle what ever is left with Spoon. Ok, really I always have my Security-Six .357 next to my bed just in case, but my gosh what some of you people say you have at the ready by your bed is crazy. You talk like you live in Bosnia or some place like that. I'm all for self-protection but come on! The only time I have ever heard of a multitude of people breaking in a door and swarming a house is when SWAT does it, or it is a drug related gang thing.

(On a side note: I think it was about 5 years ago that a drug bust gone bad in kali where the home owner was woken up by the door being broke down, I belive he grabbed the handgun next to the bed and the Cops saw him raise the gun and shot him. The bad part was they had the wrong house.:( )

[OutLaw]

Glock 22
Remington 870

[wingnutx]

The only time I have ever heard of a multitude of people breaking in a door and swarming a house is when SWAT does it, or it is a drug related gang thing.

A guy I used to work with moonlighted as an alleged bounty-hunter. One night he and 4 other so-called bounty-hunters decided to go after what they thought was drug money, and assaulted a house. they rounded up most of the occupying family in the living room, then kicked in the door of the master bedroom. The guy who happened to be in the bed managed to wound 2 of them with a pistol despite their kevlar. They then hosed the bedroom with rifle fire, killing the man and woman occupants. My wonderful coworker is now on death row, and the rest got life. There were no drugs or apparent drug money on the premises.

2 doors down from me 3 gangster invaded a home in the middle of the night, probably also looking for a drug dealer with cash. All they found was a working class family with nothing to appease the thugs. The shot the husband in the head, then raped the wife and beat her into a coma. This was in front of the 3 kids.

Not only the cops raid the wrong house.

[goldflounder]

I have (and would ALWAYS prefer to use) an assortment of baseball bats, golf clubs, axe handles, crowbars, mag-lites, etc. If you supplement the bludgeons with pepper spray, you've got yourself a good ol' fashioned beat-down, guaranteed.

As far as I know, most home invaders in their right mind don't carry guns, since the punishment for armed burglary is quite a bit harsher than unarmed. Most decently heavy, blunt objects will usually give you the advantage, unless your new friend is actually armed. :eek:

If I'm feeling extra paraniod, I'll grab my pistol-grip 6+1 18" Remington 870 and whatever shells are close by, hopefully 00.

If I'm feeling frisky, I'll pop a 10-round stripper clip in my Yugo SKS and flip out the bayonet. Can you say shishkabob?!?! Four times fast?

The AR-15 is all fine and dandy, but can it really stop an assailant in one shot? Somebody please convince me. Don't get me wrong, I love my AR, (especially with the 30-rnd clip) but I like the security of having something a little (or a lot) bigger than .223.

Of course, the closest gun (and the loaded gun) is usually a pistol, which makes it my first line of defense in most cases. I like to sleep with my Ruger P-944 next to my pillow, loaded up with 135-grain Federal hydra-shocks.

Knives are cool too, but I would think of them last. I don't really want to stab anyone and they're probably the least effective in confronting or scaring off an invader. Of course, if you have to tangle with someone in hand-to-hand combat, a knife is probably your best bet. I keep a couple of sheath knives under my bed just in case the boogeyman jumps through my bedroom window.

I've got a Katana sword, but it's really just meant as a display piece. However, the blade is plenty sharp and I wouldn't hesitate to go samurai on a burglar's ass if it was the closest weapon. :mad:

I also used to have a telescoping steel baton, but it cracked after several bouts of abusive misuse. Damn tree stumps. I'd buy another, but it turns out they're illegal to carry concealed and if I'm at home, I'd rather just use a crowbar or a tire iron.

Hmmmm... what about a plain ol' knuckle sandwich? I'm a pretty big guy at 6' 220lbs, but my brother (who is also my roommate), is 6'4" and plays rugby for UW. I think he's scary enough to send most trespassers packing. We got in a little argument/scuffle last month and accidentally broke the computer desk, a lamp, a potted plant and a couple of bar-stools. That's us going easy on each other. (Don't worry, we made up right after he dislocated my shoulder.) Lord have mercy if we really wanted to hurt someone, they'd end up in the hospital, at best.

[Bruce 45/70]

I usually use a Glock35 loaded with a 15 round high cap with an M3 light and extra mags beside the bed. I wouldn't want to fight someone at O dark thirty with clubs, knives or such. There have been many cases in Vegas of home invasions where there have been more than one invader. Shotguns and AR's are all good choices and I have these as back ups but for now I will use a pistol.

[El Lurch]

"One night he and 4 other so-called bounty-hunters ... assaulted a house... rounded up most of the occupying family ... kicked in the door of the master bedroom. The guy ... in the bed managed to wound 2 of them with a pistol despite their kevlar. They then hosed the bedroom ... killing the man and woman occupants. "

"2 doors down from me 3 gangster invaded a home in the middle of the night ... shot the husband in the head, then raped the wife and beat her into a coma. This was in front of the 3 kids."


While reading through the individual defense arms and plan scenarios, I couldn't help but think, what about the BGs with vitamin K?

I am from SE Florida and believe me, they have multiple HIs. Further, FL has a "home is castle" law, which means that most BGs know that they have a good chance that, if they don't turn and run faster than Mach 1, they are gonna get carried out.

I drifted up the firepower chain from handguns in .40 S&W & 10MM to a shotgun. Did a lot of shopping and listening to my trainer. I took him to a gunshow on a shopping trip looking for a semiauto shotgun, ended up with a super deal on a Remington 1100 with a 24" bbl. Don't laugh now - it is fully compensated, has a full mag tube for 10 +1 and is a preban with a pistol stock. I have trained shooting it in a number of ways, which include single-handed rapid fire with the stock tucked under my arm and slow fire with the stock jammed back and a tight cheek weld. It works. A semiauto SG is a fantastic weapon, allowing you to use your weakside hand for a number of tasks, like transitioning to your sidearm (learn to shoot weakside!).

I load my SG with 5+1 reduced recoil, 12 ga. 00 buck. They are followed by high velocity, sabot slugs - Brennecke or Win Partition Gold. The former is for effect at ranges of up to 10 to 12 yds - I get some fist sized spread at that range. Up to that range, 9 x .31 caliber lead balls @ 1,400 fps - don't forget the packaging - will do some serious damage just about anywhere you hit on the torso. I get 8" groups doing double and triple tap routines under stress at those ranges. The sabot slugs are simply there because I guess that if they are still moving after getting sprayed with buckshot, they may be packed in Kevlar. Unless they are wearing plates, I think they will notice a sabot slug. I also have a 10 round bandolier (5 x 00 buck & 5 sabots) and a 5 rounds (5 sabots) on the side. I wear the sidearm (10MM) in a crossdraw holster with thumb-break. I am not very worried about over penetration in my main defensive position, at the top of the stairs in front of the safe room. I am planning to install a lockable, high strength steel gate that will allow me to shoot through but keep BG at a distance. Maybe get some kevlar curtains to frame it ;)

I have also set up remote switched lights - three sets inside the house that can backlight the BG. I have one set that casts shadows against a doorway in a room where a person could seek concealment - about 30 feet from my firing position.

The whole home defense thing is predicated on being able to react fast enough to counter a threat. Home invasions are usually very fast - smash and dash. I don't think that I would want to clear a house on my own, at least not until I waited a while - those electronic ear protectors have a great advantage in that they amplify non-destructive sound.

Finally, the next weapon on my shopping list will be a AR style weapon - just waiting for a nasty piece of Clinton's legacy to die on Sep. 13th. Good weapons system with a lot of room for enhancement and making serious adjustments easily. Different ammo will do different things.

Last but not least, the closest of all the weapons is my Sig 239/40 - my first modern handgun. Great shooter.

[goldflounder]

IMHO, THE #1 BURGLAR DETERRANT: Leave a t.v. or radio on when you leave your house or when you go to sleep. That really does make it seem like someone's home. Leave a light or two on as well. If your house is decently lit and sounds busy, a BG is much less likely to intrude unless he has violent intentions.

My little house in North Seattle has fairly good visibility from windows on two sides. If I can see who is on my property and can rationally assume they are unarmed, I will pack a loaded pistol and carry a mag-light and pepper spray to check them out.
I remember one incident when an old, drunk guy came up to my front door and asked if my house was the hospital. He needed to check in to the Betty Ford Clinic, but fast. I was tempted to pepper spray his sorry butt for being stupid, but I managed to resist the temptation and told him to get lost.

If I hear a noise on my property that happens to be somewhere out of my vision, I will pack a pistol and grab a longarm. Chances are it's someone sneaking around where they know they shouldn't be.

Of course, if I should actually hear a noise inside my house, I will grab the closest weapon to investigate. That's usually a pistol. Since I'm the one with the guns, my brother likes to have an axe handle or at least a golf club by each door, in case of rabid Jehovas Witnesses or a prank pizza delivery. :rolleyes: I live on a fairly busy street and my neighborhood can be a little bit seedy sometimes, but it's not bad enough to constantly worry about having to shoot some tresspasser. Hey, I'm at least as paraniod as the next gun owner, but I do like to let my guard down sometimes. I would like to think I can solve most situations without resorting to the use of firearms, but I suppose one can't be too careful nowadays.

[FirstFreedom]

Used to be shotgun.

Now, handgun (1911 with 10 round mags, to be exact)

Why? Because I decided that maneuvering around corners, bringing the weapon quickly into firing position, and retention of weapon (all weighing in favor of the handgun) were more important for home defense than unparalleled firepower and ability to buttstroke a BG (weighing in favor of the shotty). Going around corners with even a short (18" bbled) shotty, you're at a considerable disavantage for a moment until you can swing it around on target. For me, ideally, grab the handgun, sling the shotty over the shoulder for backup, and starting clearing rooms...

[Denny Hansen]

I have four ranch-raised cowdogs that stay inside at night (can you say force multiplier?. By the time the land sharks get through with someone who tries to break in, I'll have time to reread this thread, and make a decision over a cup of coffee.

Denny

[Quartus]

As far as I know, most home invaders in their right mind don't carry guns

Maybe in your part of the country... Not that I've heard of, but I'll assume you know your area... :confused:


I have a healthy respect for a 12 guage (it's my primary HD weapon), but some of you folks seem to have TOO much confidence in it.

I recommend to EVERYONE to read through all of John Farnam's Quips and Quotes (http://www.defense-training.com/quips/quips.html). There is a lot of good information there on real gunfights, and the results. It might surprise some folks to learn that a solid hit with a 12 ga slug isn't a sure stop.

I'm not suggesting that the 12 isn't a good choice! But having realistic expectations is much better than living in a fantasy land where a blast from a 12 guage will throw a man across a room.


Some folks might also find that using double taps and triple taps isn't recommended practice for good reason. (But much better than shooting once and looking to see how the BG is doing!)


It's not the only good information available, of course, but it's there and it's free and it covers a lot of ground. Comes from multiple sources, too.

[MicroBalrog]

I have said it, and I will say it again:

AR-15/M16

Even though the AR rifles pose a certain, uhm, reliability concern in sandy/dirty climates (like where I live ), in an urban environment this is minimal. No sand in an appartment building (hopefully),

The .223 caliber poses less overpenetration troubles than the most common handgun calibers due to the tendency of the round to destabilize in-flight.

Furthermore, the .223 rifle allows for bigger ammunition capacity (did I hear anybody whisper double C-mag ?) than the ordinary shotgun. Ditto for a rate-of-fire, where the .223 can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger.

Moreove, the .223 rifle can be customized to death - an option available with shotguns too, but less so than with an AR-15/M-16 rifle.

[MicroBalrog]

The only time I have ever heard of a multitude of people breaking in a door and swarming a house is when SWAT does it, or it is a drug related gang thing.

I certainly have heard of such things. My favorite was this story:

A certain Arab couple in East Jerusalem filmed themselves having sex and sold the tapes to a compay. :eek: Eventually, some neighbour recognised them on tape. The rumour spread, and soon enough, a mob of East-Jerusalemites assembled to punish the infidel evildoers.

The police had to call in the Border Patrol (heavily armed paramilitary polce, they do more than protect the borders here) to protect those guys.

Now, tell me, did that couple need an AR or three? :D

[goldflounder]

FirstFreedom & others: I agree about the handgun choice for indoor spaces. I'm thinking aobut getting myself a 1911, but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on another pistol. Any suggestions for a reasonable & reliable .45ACP, 1911 style or otherwise? Anyone know anything about Rock Island Armory?

Quartus: Yeah, I know my area. It's hard for me to believe that most places in America are worse than Lake City in Seattle, Washington. Unless you live in Newark or something, you really don't have anything to fear but fear itself. Take my word for it, any BG who breaks into houses professionally isn't going to be armed, unless he's expecting trouble. And by the way, what's wrong with double taps and shotguns? It seems to me that if your twelve gauge slug can't stop a man dead in his tracks, you might as well throw your shotgun at him and light him up with hollow-point pistol rounds, or the AR you ingeniously attempt to disguise with a lampshade by your bedside. Then next time, try magnum slugs or triplotbukshot. :D

MicroBalrog: What the hell you talking about? :confused: Do you have a link to an article about that incident? I check the international news on a frequent basis for things like that and I'd love to read that story, if you have it.

[MicroBalrog]

I do not have a link to an article, no.
(I wasn't reading the local papers back then), my Hebrew teacher told me about it when it happened (I was in the final grade of High School.

Many local events do not attract international attention, mind you.

[SapperLeader]

My always gun is a S&w 642 when wandering around the house. I keep a rem 870 cruiser ready with 5 00 buck shells in the tube, with 6 on the saddle, and 6 slugs on the buttcuff. That is my primary, fight my way to it, home defense arm. The j-frame is just to give me something to get to it. I also keep my ar15 ready to go inside the safe. That gets pulled out when the 870 is being cleaned, or for higher levels of trouble(Had a group of local hoodlums making some ruckus outside a few months back, and I pulled out the ar from the safe until the cops arrived).

[Quartus]

Quartus: Yeah, I know my area. It's hard for me to believe that most places in America are worse than Lake City in Seattle, Washington. Unless you live in Newark or something, you really don't have anything to fear but fear itself. Take my word for it, any BG who breaks into houses professionally isn't going to be armed, unless he's expecting trouble.


Nice to live in such a peaceful area! Good for you! Many cities aren't that way. Most home invasion robberies are fast and include multiple armed intruders, and shooting the occupants is more common than not. At least in most big cities in America.


And by the way, what's wrong with double taps and shotguns? It seems to me that if your twelve gauge slug can't stop a man dead in his tracks, you might as well throw your shotgun at him and light him up with hollow-point pistol rounds, or the AR you ingeniously attempt to disguise with a lampshade by your bedside. Then next time, try magnum slugs or triplotbukshot.

Or try learing from the pros, instead of Hollywood. Spend some time on that link I suggested, for example. Hey, it's FREE! Knowlegeable firearms instructors don't teach double tap or triple tap anymore, they teach shoot until the threat is stopped. The reason for that is that human beings have this nasty habit of not dropping like a sack of potatoes when shot, even though we all learned from TV that we should. The sad truth is that people who are shot very often continue to fight, and sometimes succeed in killing the person who shot them. Now, if you don't want to be the person who gets killed, it makes sense to learn from reality and do the things that maximize your chances of surviving. THere's nothing you can do to GUARANTEE your survival, but there are things you can do to better your chances. Shooting until the threat is stopped gives you a better chance than double taps.

Not living in a Hollywood world is the best thing you can do, of course.

Oh, and shotguns are great - I'm a big fan of them. But I know they aren't magic.

[VaughnT]

Way fun thread to ponder on!

From my personal standpoint, I go with the handgun to start with. As a lot of people have mentioned earlier, the handgun is the most likely to be available in a moment's notice and it's the weapon we all practice with on a regular basis. When's the last time anyone here ran a combat course with their shottie? AR's are nice, but I don't own one, yet.

What do I prefer? Well, I'm going with a Top O' da Line Browning Hi Power in the venerable 9mm Luger. Why? Accuracy, capacity, reliability, maneuverability. It is soon to be stored in a Lou Alessi Bodyguard ShoHo, so I can grab it and move if necessary. Combine this with a good light like the Pelican M6/M6 LED, or the Surefire 6P/G2, and you have a good fighting chance. Penetration? That's definitely an issue in my world, but I have to compromise on everything.

What's my fallback? When it gets back from the shop, it will be my Colt 45 M1991. I keep this in my dutybelt with two spare mags and a Surefire 6P, so I can grab it and move if I need to, just like the BHP.

I would like to have a Vang Comp shotgun, and might head this route very soon as I think a man should have one of everything. But I have to look at what I am most familiar with and can move most easily with.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, or which I haven't seen, is the use of body armor. I have the vest and outer carrier from work and could easily see me donning this before moving to investigate. It might be outdated, but I'd rather be wearing a degraded IIIA vest when I'm shot than not. It sure can't hurt, right?!

I think it was Mas Ayoob that mentioned how convenient such a vest was because it allowed you to store fighting tools in the pockets and have protection. I'm shopping for another carrier that's more modular, but the pockets I do have hold a flashlight and a couple of Cylume sticks as well as some loaded magazines. You could also fill the pockets with some sheets of aluminum to increase the penetration resistance.

Just my thoughts.

[3phase]

definitely shotgun.


-3phase

[Quartus]

Hmmm. I'm thinking old Art may have some competition for the Calvin Coolidge award.


New guy's first post and all he gives us is TWO WORDS!! :eek:


:D


Welcome aboard, 3phase! New guy buys a round of ammo! :D


Is that 3phase, as in AC power?

[rwilson452]

Mossberg 500 12ga loaded with Fed. H132 4B. Backup is a 1991-A1
230 gr Speer GDHP. 1991 is also my carry piece.

[Sweatnbullets]

I started this thread 18 months ago, I can't believe it was resurrected. Boy do things change.

I took Gabe's Close Range Gunfighting course and then his Interactive Gunfighting class. (FOF) Since then I have rethought some things.

I will have to change my primary weapon back to my Glock 17. It is with me 90% of the time. It will be the gun I grab if I hear breaking glass at night. In most cases I would have to secure family members and the handgun would be the best tool to use in that case. JMO

If the family members are secured and I can take up a barricaded position, my wife would use the Mossberg 590A1 and I would go with my AR 15.

[Quartus]

It's amazing how taking that first real combat class will change your "learned all I know from shooting with buddies and reading gun rags, and maybe a few years in the Army" thinking, isn't it?

[jercamp45]

Colt Government model for the house. Colt LW Officer's model for the robe pocket. Colt CCO as duty and cary gun....by bed whilst sleeping. A ParaOrd LDA Companion and Kahr PM9 are Milady's tools. Mags for the 1911 collection are stashed in several places. I have a couple of rifles(M-N M44 and Ruger 10/22) that are not suitable for HD really, no AR's or AK's....not expecting a home invasion from the First Crackhead Battalion.
Reasons: Familiarity, simplicity, ones that I have. Distances are very close. The area is built up and heavily populated. I feel comfortable with my handguns...though I will add a semiauto centerfire rifle to the collectiom oneday....it is more for field than home, IMHO. If I lived way out in the stick's though, the rifle would be backed up by 1911's.
Jercamp45

[care-less]

Various 1911's, BHP's, P7's, and Makarovs scattered throughout the house. I think that shotguns and rifles have their place; but handguns are "handy"; which is their primary virtue. Long guns are not as maneuverable in tight places, and it is really hard to stick them in my bathrobe pocket.

[UnforgivenII]

The first gun I would reach for would have to be my glock 22. After that,depending on the seriousness of the threat I would go to an m4(eotech sight,flat top,full length picatinny rails with tactical light and laser sight, silencer for inside work) carbine with a 2 30 round mags taped together....loaded with ballistic tip ammo so it will be sure to have explosive results. I have read all the posts about the lack of power of the 223 but honestly I don't know of any man that could take multiple hits at under 10 yrds from a 223 with an Expandible/fragmenting type bullet. And to those saying that the shotgun doesn't require that many hits...that's true, Hit someone with a load of anything under 10 yrds and yes, they will be dead. At that close the best thing to use would probably be bird shot.....really really ugly wound. To me though,I would rather have something I can make follow up shots on very quickly( eotech sight helps significantly)and has a larger capacity. They way I look at it is this....I'd rather have a loaded weapon than an empty one....and you will run out of ammo with the SG much faster than with the AR.

[Ironbarr]

the linked site appears to be down - I tried through Google too - no-go.

-Andy

[Quartus]

Odd. It's working now. :confused:

<shrug> Computers.

[FirstFreedom]

At times I've pondered the following as well:

Threat is inside: Grab handgun
Threat is outside: Grab longgun, but don't venture out unless there is evidence that it is safe or some extenuating circumstance warrants stepping outside. As to whether that should be a carbine or shotty, that's a tough call.

[Tamara]

A little over a year and a half ago, I said:

Closest to hand: Beretta 96D
Next closest to hand: Remington 870

The Beretta is now gone, and the current "bed gun" is a Model 64 .38 Special loaded with... um... something hollow-pointy and +Pish, I'm sure.

The long gun is still the 870, with the goofy top-folding stock removed in a rare moment of sanity, and some ghost rings added during an even rarer moment of affluence. Should another one of those "affluence" moments swing by again, I swear I'm gonna build that AR carbine I've been nattering about for the past three or four years (somehow, every time I've had the fundage handy, there's some work to be done on a 1911, or a S&W or cosmoline-caked old crock of a milsurp comes along that I just have to buy. :o ) Anyhow, when and if I finish that shorty AR, it'll prob'ly replace the 870 as the indoors long gun.

Truthfully, though, my primary line of defense is that I'm near the end of a windy little dead end road in the woods, a road where everybody knows each other and phones ring when something "smells funny," and a bad guy would have to be lost, or completely unhinged to find my house in the first place.

[TxCop312]

My primary home defense is a door lock. After that there's a demon chiuaua(sp?), and after that he gets a dose of 12 gauge.

[Quartus]

After that there's a demon chiuaua(sp?), and after that he gets a dose of 12 gauge.

Look, I hate a yappy little dog as much as the next guy, but isn't shooting him with a 12 guage a bit much? :confused:

;)

[Jeff Gonzales]

There is lots of good information here, but one thing that often gets overlooked is you may not always have the luxury of hunkering down.

Obviously if given the choice it is the best, but if you still have folks out there what are you going to do? Your choices are many but the likely ones would be to wait and hope they leave or move to your family to wait and hope they leave. Since that is more of a likely scenario for young couples you need to be thinking about something more compact and manueverable. You may be carrying family members or you may be grappling with intruders, the list goes on and hopefully the point is clear.

There is no easy answer here, but one thing is for certain. You have to determine what you are going to do first and then the weapon system will become obvious.

Later,

[Quartus]

Hmmm. Plan first, buy later?


Weird idea! :D


And remember that changing houses means re-evaluating your defense plan. I've lived in a one story rambler, a split level, and now a 3 story townhome. Very different scenarios for cat burglar, home invasion, or fire. Each house needs it's own plan. A single's plan will be different from a married couple and a family with young children will be different from a family with teenagers.

Particularly if the teenagers are capable shooters! :eek:

[Dave Markowitz]

S&W Model 625 .45 ACP upstairs by the bed and a S&W Model 28 downstairs in the filing cabinet next to my computer desk.

[IrvJr]

I like a Winchester trapper 94 (16" barrel) in .44 special/.44mag for HD. It's easy to handle and reliable. I like using .44 specials (240gr semi wadcutters) in this gun because they offer decent performance for a handgun round, but are not too loud out of a 16" barrel (although I think all centerfire guns are pretty loud). The gun also has good capacity (I think you can load ten .44 special cartridges in the tube or nine .44 mag cartridges), and I'm comfortable operating it.

Plus the lever action is fairly politically correct looking, which has its advantages. One drawback, however, would be if I were required to handle the carbine and a flashllight at the same time. It's a little less awkward holding the light and foreend in the same hand but it can be done.

[Quartus]

uartus...
the linked site appears to be down - I tried through Google too - no-go.

-Andy

Well, whaddaya know? It IS down now!

:confused:

[eviltravis]

would work just fine I think. Point, and click.

[Quartus]

Well, whaddaya know? It IS down now!




Seems to be working fine now.

[Ironbarr]

and I'm into it deeply... great stuff.

Thanks.
(For those wanting to know some gun-related "stuff" - http://www.defense-training.com/quips/quips.html )

-Andy

[Quartus]

Andy, glad you find it worth reading. For those of us who haven't been there, done that, it's a wealth of info from folks who have.


BTW, your definition of liberals and conservatives had me laughing out loud! Great stuff.

[FirstFreedom]

Was just thinking - Home defense might be a good excuse to buy a double-stack, 6", Para or similar 1911, in .38 super, with 20 rounders! :) That just may be a purt near perfect home defense handgun.

[Ironbarr]

A reading of John Farnum's Quips (site) at http://www.defense-training.com/quips/quips.html provides a plethora of info re firearms & blade experiences; notes; useless & useful hardware, ammo, techniques; and other useful (maybe need-to-know... or to remember) info.

These are short, informative items - quick reads. There are several years worth, but if you are there for the first time I suggest you start in Jan '04 for most current info and at the bottom (oldest) and work to the top (latest) since some later items refer to earlier ones.

Quartus, thanks - I finally got through all the '04's.

Again the URL is http://www.defense-training.com/quips/quips.html

-Andy

[Any .45]

My 41 inch Forged steel katana and my Kimber 1911, the katana for closed quarters where a boom would really damage ear drums and it's funner, no recoil, easier to handle and never runs out of bullets, the 1911 incase the BG, gets away into the yard or he's in a room with one entrance and it'd not dark.

[FirstFreedom]

This katana you speak of - you have some links? I never thought of a sword as a serious home defense weapon, but maybe I should. I always thought, I never want to get that close - I'll either shoot from a distance or retreat if loved ones are not in danger. But you might be in that close by accident - surprised around a corner or whatnot. Sword might not be a good choice as I grow older and lose strength and agility, but for now, while I'm fairly young, I may want to have one on hand for good measure. What's a good value (low priced) one? Or, if that question is off topic, post in the gear and accessories and/or PM me.

[mrcalm7]

This is hard for me to answer. My first choice would be my 870 or Mossberg Preacher gun. But since over penetration is an issue, my first shell would be birdshot followed by buckshot, probably 00. This might be lowered. Next consideration is accessibilty, for me this would be younguns getting their paws on it when I'm not there. I could put a life jacket on the shotgun and put it under the bed. Then I'd have to fumble with keys. So handgun rules under these circumstances. I have one of those door ejecting type of safes where you just push buttons, no key needed.

Now the problem becomes which handgun. I have two semi autos, an H&K .45 USP Compact and a Beretta 9 mm 92FS. I'm ruling these out because they can possibly jam. Whereas that ain't gonna happen with the revolver. Not my first choice but it's what I own, a 45 LC Peacemaker. Need to get something more 20th Century but that might now happen soon. (Promised myself that my next purchase is a Wilson Combat .45, so I'm in a saving mode.) Over-penetration is an issue, but I'm using this as a cover weapon to retrieve one of my shotguns that are nearby.

I'm ruling out the AR15 because, first you better be on target, and 2nd over-penetration. At 25 yards, I can put a smiley face on you with the Peacemaker. I'm just as good with the other two but I was made aware of a couple of drawbacks with semi-autos. The clips can retain a memory if you leave them loaded for an extended period of time. This can cause jamming. Next was a story about a guy being robbed by two guys with semi-autos. Both of their guns jammed in the attempt and he used his revolver and killed them both.

I've reinforced the walls in the kids room with bookshelves (loaded with books) to reduce the overpenetration issue. I also plan on shooting high (head shot) to take away additional danger. My worse case scenario includes moving to the stairwell to cover anyone coming up the stairs and then having the kids retreat to one bedroom along with my spouse. My dog and I will battle it out with the oncoming foe.

[Ironbarr]

In "my" gun shop the other day I saw 12g mini-shotshells - about two inches long. I'm told they come in birdshot, buck of some size, and slug. Theoretically a fix for overpenetration. They are for single and double shotties... won't work in pumps/autos. Makes a case for a short double, huh?

-Andy

[giggling on]
Rereading before Submit for errors, "pumps/auto" read "pimps/auto". Couldn't stifle the giggle. Actually, I think it WOULD work in pimps. (Har Har)[/giggling off]

[Quartus]

<looking at Ironbarr's hysterics with concern>

Captain? Captain, he's breaking up! I canna hold him together much longer! :eek:



So, up past your bedtime again, Andy? My daddy always made us go to be when we got silly.

:D

[mgdavis]

Beretta 9000S in .40 by my bed. 18" bbl 870 loaded with 00 buck in the closet. My Dad and his Taurus .357 upstairs. A carbine, possibly the new Beretta Storm in .40 is up next on the list, when I get the cash.

[sks]

Well my home defense system starts with a 2.5 meter concrete wall topped by another meter of 12,500 volt wire. Then there are two dobermans on the inside, one weighs in at 100 lbs and the other puppy is only 40 lbs. I've got a security system with two perimeters of infrared beams then motion detectors closer to and inside the home. All hooked up to an 8 day battery if need be. The electric fence is also hooked into the alarm system so that any overt pressure or cutting will set it off.

After that I've got a Mossberg 12ga and a Glock .40, both loaded but no rounds chambered. If all else fails I do have a machete close by. :D

Overpenetration is not a problem because my entire house is concrete. The walls go anywhere from 8" to 14" and I don't think the 12ga or the .40 will go through that. I know that the machete won't.

[dfaugh]

as I'm never more than 20 ft. away from a gun...Choices include Hi-Point 9mm carbine(Loaded w/ +P+ Black Talons), Mossberg Special Purpose w/ pistol grip, and 2 SKSs...Early warning system consists of 5 German Shepherds...So, If I have time, I'd probably try to get to the shotgun..1st 3 rounds are #4 birdshot, followed by 4 rounds of 3" magnum 15 pellet 00 buck...If I need more than that, I "fall back" to the SKS-M (30 and 40 round magazines loaded and available)....But by the time I get THAT deep in the s*it, my son will also be armed and firing...Overpenetration not serious problem, luckily, live in semi-rural area...I also hold the "high ground" in all directions.

[goldflounder]

My brand-spankin'-new primary home defense system consists of a Glock 21 .45acp and a Surefire 6P flashlight. I guess secondary would be my katana sword, knives, machette, pepper spray, mag-lites, golf clubs, etc., or maybe another gun, but only if the .45 were unloaded. I just moved into a smaller apartment, so it's all right by my bed. Of course, there's always my patented knuckle-sandwich... Nyuk nyuk nyuk! ;) Naturally, my 18" 870 still rules, but it's not so maneuverable in tight spaces.

[Tommy Vercetti]

Colt Combat Commander .45 ACP

[LAK]

30-30.

In case that is not enough, maybe I should track down Barbara Streisand's Greatest Hits - and keep it at the "ready to play".

[rugerdude]

maverick 88 12 ga. toatal length: 4 feet with 5 shells of 0 buck shot at most. My house has been broken into 3 times, never while someone was home. I don't expect my house to ever be assaulted by gang members and the four gillion to one chance that that will happen is a chance i'm willing to take. however, anyone trying to rob the house while I or my dad is there will be very sorry. As far as I'm concerned about the whole "I keep a loaded .45 under my pillow sfety off and a round chambered but I'll only use that to fight my way to my M-79 grenade launcher or M-60 4 feet away in the closet/machinegun nest" attitude I think they're paranoid or just trying to make their life seem more interesting.

[Quartus]

LAK, you can go to jail for a loooong time for torturing somebody....


:eek:



:D

[RT82]

There is no finer home defense weapon, short of a flamethrower, than a short barrel 12 ga. shotgun loaded with buckshot.