View Full Version : Tamara, a little help? Taiwanese M16's.
October 28, 2002, 01:53 AM
I was talking to a friend who is recently out of the Taiwanese army. He said the M16's they used, are "taiwanese versions" that are simplified over the original M16's. He couldn't tell me what's so different about them, but he said they showed a regular M16 (US version) and theirs, and said theirs had considerably fewer total parts.
Got any clue? I figure you are the gun buff.
Anybody else have a clue? I'm trying my hardest to get access to some guns here, but short of airsofts, I've hadn't had any luck.
October 28, 2002, 06:36 AM
ROC Type 68.
October 28, 2002, 06:36 AM
Taiwan uses the T65 which is a M16 lower with a modified upper that incorporates a AR18 gas system, yet retains the buffer and action spring within of the M16 lower
October 28, 2002, 06:52 AM
and it's a seriously ugly M16 clone. The lower is a M16A1 which has a 3-round burst and full auto positions. It does not have a carry handle, the rear sights are mounted on a bracket to get them the same height at a normal M16. It also does not have a forward assist.
October 28, 2002, 07:21 AM
It's pretty weird. They have odd-looking Garands too, though those are for ceremonial use (presidential guard).
October 31, 2002, 01:57 AM
Anybody have pics of this thing?
I'm not a fan of the forwards assist, I think the bolt should be recipercating on all guns, so it can act as both positive and negative charging..
Is it like a Frankenstein Daewoo style gun then??
I assume the parts count is lower? How's the reliability?
The man at the airport wasn't all that fond of me looking at his rifle; so I didn't venture to pull out my camera and take a pic...
October 31, 2002, 04:10 AM
i wanna see pictures of these, too
October 31, 2002, 08:37 AM
twoblink, turn to page 349 of Dr. Ezell's "Small Arms of the World" (12 ed.). There's a photo of the Type 57 (the M14 Chinee copy) and the Type 68 (Chinee copy of the M16).
The PRC also has a copy of the M16 which they call the "CQ."
October 31, 2002, 03:18 PM
From http://world.guns.ru/assault/as48-e.htm :
Now I'm even more confused.
Edit: Well, I can't get the picture to show up, but it looks like an SKS with an AK mag sticking out of it. The page says it is 7.62x39mm
October 31, 2002, 03:43 PM
The various "Type 68s" aren't necessarily related to one another; it's just that they were ADOPTED in their year "68" (whether that's "1968" or just a certain year in their calendar is another question). The PRC Type 68 is essentially a full-auto SKS with an AK-style magazine; the ROC Type 68 is a marriage of an M16A1 with an AR-18 gas system.
October 31, 2002, 03:44 PM
Wrong gun in the link. Twoblink is in Taiwan. That type 68 is from communist China.
October 31, 2002, 08:10 PM
Muzzleblast, not the PRC Type 68, the ROC Type 68!
October 31, 2002, 09:52 PM
ROC = Republic of China in Taiwan (there's an ongoing movement to drop "China" from the marquee)
PRC = People's Republic of China
If you want access to guns in Taiwan, join the military or the police force.
October 31, 2002, 11:17 PM
Well --- I guess Tamara doesn't check out the 'Rifle' boards too often!
October 31, 2002, 11:42 PM
I'm sorry but I have to laugh. There's another thread in the handgun forum where an International member is asking for a Tamara who works for Glocks. Apparently dear ole Tammy is gaining international recognition. :D
twoblink: the above posts are correct as to the Taiwanese Type 68 rifle. It combines the lower of the M-16 with the upper of the AR-18 rifle. It's a gas operated system (as opposed to a gas impingment system of the M-16). On the M-16, gas travels through a gas tube that runs from the front sight post towards the upper receiver and from there, acts upon the bolt carrier and forces it back, unlocking the bolt from the barrel sleeve (the barrel of the M-16 does not have corresponding locking lugs machined into it but rather has a barrel sleeve that is inserted into it for that purpose). As the bolt carrier travels back, the bolt's extractor pulls the expended case from the chamber. The bolt carrier also pushes on the buffer, causing the buffer to compress the buffer spring into the buffer sleeve in the stock. As the bolt goes back, it forces the hammer back and the hammer engages the sear, locking it back. When the bolt carrier travels fully to the rear, the bolt passes the ejection port and the ejector forces the spent cartridge out of the receiver.
The buffer spring pushes the buffer forward. This in turn causes the bolt carrier forward along with the bolt. As the bolt moves forward, the feed ramp of the bolt engages the bullet at the top of the magazine, stripping it from the magazine and up along the bolt face where the rim slips beneath the extractor. Simultaneously, the forward motion forces it towards the chamber. As the bolt carrier continues forward under the influence of the buffer, the bolt is rotated such that the locking lugs interlock with the corresponding locking lugs of the chamber.
Now, the Type 68 varies in that instead of the M-16 gas tube with the gas travelling down a long gas tube before acting upon the bolt carrier, the gas in the Type 68 travels only a short distance and acts directly upon a piston. Said piston/operating rod runs the length of the barrel and into the upper receiver. It travels back and impacts against the bolt carrier which functions much like the M-16 bolt carrier. Same with reloading and locking up. As the bolt carrier moves forward, it forces the piston/operating rod forward back into its position of rest near the gas port.
I'm not sure if the Type 68 actually has fewer parts than the M-16, but it certainly has more moving parts than the M-16. That the M-16 has fewer parts makes it conducive for accuracy. Fewer parts, better harmonics and less to disrupt the harmonics of the rifle.
BTW, you'll have to wait for Tamara to drop in if you want a better explanation.
November 1, 2002, 01:39 AM
Well, Tam is taking her sweet time about it ;)
I know, she's prepping a 30 page essay on the described differences..
PLEASE, for heaven's sake, do not confuse Taiwan with China... That's like saying American and Mexico, they are all over there, so about the same....
I'm interested now in seeing the difference...
November 1, 2002, 11:33 AM
Oh, I can also tell you about the difference between Taiwan & mainland China. It's the food. It's much better on the mainland and this is not party line communist propaganda. The secret is that the Cantonese are the best chefs in all of China and that the majority of Cantonese are in Kwangtung province and not Taiwan.
Apart from Peking Duck (which the Cantonese make excellantly), Northern food suck! Victory through better ingestion! A well fed proletariat is a happy proletariat. Peasants of the world, unite together and eat at Yet Wah!
(Yet Wah is a chain of restaurants in the Bay Area. Don't really care for them as I like the stuff in the 'hood).
November 1, 2002, 03:37 PM
I KNOW you didn't just insult taiwanese food!! The BEST FOOD IN THE WORLD is right here; the island is sooo small there is only one national pasttime; eating!!
There are over 2 million street carts with food... Trust me, the food is better here..
Now many the Cantonese are bigger pigs then the Taiwanese, but the food is definitely better here; and I've eaten everywhere... Norway and Sweden has the worst food, hands down..
Now about the guns; It's that 68 as in 1968, or Taiwanese year 68, which would be 1979?
November 1, 2002, 04:18 PM
twoblink - was told a saying once about being born in Soochow, living in Hangchow, eating at Guangchow (Canton) and dying elsewhere. Soochow because the people are the prettiest. Hangchow because that's suppose to be the prettiest place. Guangchow because the food is the best and that last place (whose name I don't recall), because the wood for the coffin is the best.
Now, as to the veracity of that saying, I've been in Soochow (and the people don't look any better than the northerners, but they're prettier than the southerners), been to Hangchow (it's pretty, but Guilin (sp?) is prettier IMHO (wasn't there a 14th Air Force base nearby during WW II), ate in Guangchow (yes, the food was terrific, but no better than Hong Kong). As for the wood, let me quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "I'm not quite dead yet." :p
Norway and Sweden have the worse food - worse than Jolly 'ole England? Hard to imagine anything being worse than grease fried bread for breakfast. :barf: Give me plain old bread and water first.
November 1, 2002, 06:10 PM
What's wrong with the food in England? The Chinese, Indian and French cuisine is just fine.:)
November 1, 2002, 07:54 PM
This lists a Daewoo K1+2, but it looks more like the M-16 wombat than other mentioned
November 2, 2002, 07:59 AM
"Small Arms of the World" calls it the Type 68. "Jane's Guns Recognition Guide" calls it the Type 65. "Janes Infantry Weapons" calls the original version the Type 65, the second generation the Type 65K1 and the current production the Type 65K2.
It doesn't really look like the Daewoo K1 or K2. "Small Arms" and "Jane's" have a few pics of it that I'll try to scan and post.
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