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View Full Version : When things go BUMP in the night. What kind of person are you?


bu-bye
September 27, 2002, 06:37 PM
I have spent much time at this site and other gun sites reading past and present posts and have noticed three kinds of people. There are those that will rack a shotgun very loud in hopes to scare the stuffing out of the intruder. There are those that see the element of surprise the key advantage and make sure they see the BG before they make them selves known. And the last class is just protecting the door to your room waiting for them to leave. What class do you fall under? Do you want the BG to hear your 12g and your anouncement that the cops are on their way....or do you try to get the drop on the BG ending things with "freaze or I will shoot"....or are you the kind to just wait in your locked room with gun in hand letting them take what they want and leave?

I seem to feel I would tell my wife to call 911 very quitly while I made my way slowly around each corner. To some this seems crazy and stupid but making myself known just gives me a chill and I know that if the guy (or girl to be PC) had a weapon he or she would be getting ready to use it now. But, if I see the BG with my TV in both hands I know that there is little chance for him to have a gun in hand ready to shoot. Once I see the first guy I just site back and wait to see if there is a second guy coming back from the car. Just sitting and watching and listening. Not knowing the full situation can be more dangerous. I also have kids in cribs in other rooms of the house. Protecting just my bedroom door is not an option.


Now lets not have any flames here please. I feel this is how I would handle things. My logic comes from history. All through out history we see that getting the drop on your enemy wins battles.

So lets hear what kind of person you are.

m14nut
September 27, 2002, 06:51 PM
I would:
#1-- protect my family and my self by ANY means possible. Material things can and will be replaced.
#2-- notify the police.

I've read the threads also with the comic book hero's saying that they would do this and that.... A man's got to know his limitations, Clint said it right!

I would not want to imagine the legal ramifications for a civilian shooting, justified or not. Be that as it may, I defend my family to the end.

Best burglar alarm in the world is a dog! You know he just wants to lick your face and play, but B&E Johnny aint thinking 'bout that when your 100lb pooch sounds off in an alert bark at 2 in the morn...!

Good topic BU-bye!!
Chris~

bu-bye
September 27, 2002, 07:09 PM
I sure do wish I could have a dog in the house I rent at now. Stupid landlady:mad:

spacemanspiff
September 27, 2002, 07:11 PM
i'm a combination of 2 parts...for one, i sit back quietly for a few minutes, trying to determine what i heard, and if i keep hearing it. then i slowly make my way around the place.
i keep a pen-laser around the house, works great in the dark, and would also be very useful in case of fire, better than a flashlight in a smoky room, imho.

Chris W
September 27, 2002, 07:17 PM
Geez, if I actually heard something? I mean, there've been plenty of nights when Mrs. W has 'heard' something, and wakes me up, and I listen to the cats sleeping for a few seconds, and then get up and walk through the house to reassure her (she also regularly wakes me up with dreams she's choking on inexplicable objects such as a handful of tacks or a patch of carpet. Gotta love her).

But if I *actually* had cause to think there was someone in the house? I don't even know if I've ever thought that through. I spose I'd get up, reach up to the shelf where my house-gun is (G17, so no dramatic noises to make with it), and edge out of the room real quietly. Yeah, my instinct would be to want to see what's up before I announce my presence. Criminy, it's awful to think about having to make instantaneous decisions about what's happening and how to react. I can imagine getting really jumpy on the trigger in the close quarters of the living room--I don't wanna lose my advantage by letting him/them actually get on me, at least not without being diligently perforated first. Sure as Hell hope it never happens--but I'm glad you asked. Good to think about, and I look forward to hearing people's thoughts.

cw

Lexter
September 27, 2002, 07:52 PM
Protect the family at all costs! I have to do this drill monthly it seems. The Mrs. sleeps very lightly and is always waking me to investigate a "noise downstairs". I rack the .45, grab a MagLite(un-lit) and begin the "tip-toe routine".
We've discuused where to stand behind the bed (as a barrier) if someone's trying to break into the bedroom (when I'm out of town).

Failing to plan is planning to fail! (yet another saying by my old High School Coach).


Lexter

PS- I pray to God that I never have to defend my home/family against a Bad Guy.

Marcus
September 27, 2002, 09:06 PM
Sounds like many of us are in the same boat. The Mrs. wakes us up and says "I heard something downstairs!" and we have to do something about it or we`ll never get any sleep. I do the ol grab the Maglight/impact weapon and pistol and tip toe around the house listening for every creak and movement thing just like you guys. :rolleyes: In a perfect world you`d know the BG was down there and barricade the bedroom while you dialed 911 etc. But in reality if you did that the cops would get tired of the wuss who was always "calling wolf" in about a month. Come to think of it in a perfect world there wouldn`t be anyone breaking into your house anyway! :p Marcus

gunnoob
September 27, 2002, 09:13 PM
Of those three I'd most likely be in the group that "make sure they see the BG before they make them selves known". But even more likely is that I'd sleep through the whole incident.

satxman
September 27, 2002, 09:25 PM
If I am rather confident that someone is in our home, my first and foremost thought is to insure the safety of my wife and then myself. If she lost me I know how her life would be and if I lost her......., just don't like thinking about.

So, I would not light off a maglight or flashlight announcing my position. I would have the Mrs. call 911 and would take a tactical positon within our bedroom to defend both of us. I will not shoot to protect material items. I made that promise to myself a long time ago and will stay with it.

I will not go rooting around corners looking for an intruder. It is too easy to get nailed. Sometimes having a small home is an advantage.

What ever any of you decided to do, please protect yourself as well as your loved ones as they would have a hard time without you.

Become a great witness and Stay safe.

JohnK
September 27, 2002, 09:47 PM
I would follow the sound of the screaming as my two big dogs jumped all over whoever it was in my house where they don't belong.

KSFreeman
September 27, 2002, 09:56 PM
Let's see I was a, how do you say, TERRIFIED type of person. Did not do the GSC "rack the shotgun and become a target" drill because the shotgun is loaded. I got behind cover, identified my target, and called for help.

The study of tactics is more art than science. I don't know if there is a stock answer as each situation is different. Making noise may scare them away, maybe not. If not you have just told them where you be and BGs don't have to follow Rule #4. Thus, Iraqi offhand may be just fine for them.

Study and education will help you decide for your situation. A lot of luck helps too.;)

Ron L
September 27, 2002, 10:09 PM
For a while, my wie is the kind of person who would bolt out of bed willy-nilly yelling for me to get the gun an looking for the phone. In time, I've calmed her down. Now, when one of us hears a noise, we make sure the other is awake with a quiet nudge or whisper and we take a few seconds to gather our thoughts without moving to determine what we're listening to. Then, if anything is needed, she gets on the phone (cell or cordless) while I simply make sure that nothing comes down the hallway where all of our bedrooms are. That way, I know the family is safe and the police are called. Hell, they can take anything they want from the front of the house, but they're not coming back where my family is. That's where I draw the line.

spleenandideal
September 27, 2002, 10:10 PM
I would roll quietly off the bed, reach for the flashlight and the ready-to-roll 12-guage under the bed, crawl to the bedroom door and listen. Carefully. If all's quiet, then do the housecheck. If the bumps keep bumping, locate where it's coming from approach cautiously, then act/react if need be. Scary stuff to think about. But oh so necessary.

Double Naught Spy
September 27, 2002, 10:24 PM
If I know someone is in the house, then I am all for bugging out as best as possible without being detected. For potential life and death situations, no being there is a good idea, or rather, be where the bad guys aren't. Being confined within the walls of my domicile with bad guys is not idea.

Unlike KSFreeman, I have little actual cover within my home. Thus, locking my family and me in a bedroom probably isn't the greatest of ideas as nothing will prevent the bad guys from shooting through the walls and getting lucky.

If we can't vacate, then I would prefer the first notice to the bad guys that someone is home is the first shot of 00 Buck into the closest bad guy.

The wife and I each have specific duties and we each know what the other is supposed to be doing. Additionally, we have a set of known and agreed upon places to meet if we do vacate and have to do it individually and not as a team. We also have a set of voice commands (very limited) for certain locations and for individual identification (aka passwords) beyond, "Honey, it's me!" "Honey, it's me!" actually means I am screwed and am not in control of my situation (such as if I have been taken hostage) and so she will know that whatever I say next is under duress and that she is not to follow any coaxing I may try to get her out of her location. If either spouse is being held hostage, we have agreed that the free spouse is NOT to give up his/her guns. One armed and one held hostage is infinity worse than none armed and both held hostage.

Lexter, unless you have a water bed with heavy wood supports or some other shielding, behind the bed probably does not represent actual cover for your wife.

m14nut
September 27, 2002, 10:28 PM
HOOO--YA JOHN K.!!!!!!!!!!!! Let 'em at 'em!!!
There aint nuthin' an angry set of teeth aint biting!!!!!


God bless a dog!

EOD Guy in VA
September 27, 2002, 11:36 PM
Grab the Mossberg 500.
Take a defensive position.
Call 911
Wait. (My dog's a Golden Retriever, so he's still asleep)
If necessary, initiate body disassembly procedure by kinetic energy.

jack pringle
September 28, 2002, 12:41 AM
one, my outside doors open outward. hard to crash them in.

two, if the lock is picked quietly, there is a shelf above the doors with a line attached and a double stack of empty pop cans on it. open the door, string pulls simple prop under shelf. ever hear a dozen empty pop cans drop six and a half feet? a simple burglar would depart at this commotion. "honey, did you remember to hook the strings".

three, the woman's Rottweiller sleeps on the floor beside her. that dog sounds like someone taught a lion to bark.

four, woman slides to floor behind the waterbed and aims her handgun du jour at the door.

five, i try to go back to sleep. the situation is under control.



.

Will Batayte
September 28, 2002, 02:38 AM
I don't sleep at night. Take right now for instance It's 3:30 am and I am in my living room typing this post. So in my case it is unlikly the burglar will get all the way into the house before he is looking down the barrel of a gun. I also have two dogs who will hear anything I don't. For someone to get into my house without me or the dogs knowing, they would have to be very quiet. I realy on the dogs to alert me during the day while I sleep. I would never make myself known until I was in a position to shoot. I don't see any good reason to let a BG know whats comming.

OkieCruffler
September 28, 2002, 02:50 AM
Dog would react first, she's faster and a damn site meaner than I am. I take the maglight and the Steven's 12ga from my corner and go to see what she is chewing on. The Wife takes her maglight and .38 snubby to the lateral corner to call sheriff. Teenage son is upstairs, you have to open a trap door to get into his room. If by some act of God he actually wakes up he secures the trap door. No one moves but myself until I give the all clear. My stuff is MY STUFF, I work hard to get it. You want stuff, get a job and buy your own stuff. Besides, my dog is out there and they might hurt the delicate little thing. Then I'd get really mad.

Ala Dan
September 28, 2002, 03:17 AM
Greting's All,

If things go BUMP in the middle of the night, I'm
wide awake, attentive, aware of my surroundings,
and ready for action. Armed with a "multiple choice"
selection of firearm's!:eek: :cool: :D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Joe Demko
September 28, 2002, 10:04 AM
My dog is a black lab, so he will give the burglar a friendly greeting and show him where all the valuables are.

I keep fairly bright night lights on all over the house, since I have two little kids. No real "pitch dark" to deal with, so target i.d. conditions are greatly enhanced for me.
If the noise is on the second floor, where the family sleeps, I'm going hunting armed.
If the noise is on the first floor, I will silently wait, armed, at the top of the stairs to see if I hear it again. If I believe it to be an intruder, I'll call 911.

Once, some years back when I was single, I ended up going mano y mano with a thief. It didn't help matters that he broke in while I was showering and the whole altercation took place with me wet and naked. One of the many things I learned from the experience is that a gun is only useful if you have it in your hand.

dairycreek
September 28, 2002, 10:51 AM
When I took the required CCW plan many, many years ago it was a two day affair done by the local sheriff's office. One of the things that they covered was how to deal with an intruder such as is being discussed in this thread. The bottom line message here was have a plan that takes into account as many variables as possible, e.g. layout of house, where the kids are, etc. When the plan is made discuss it with the members of the family!!!!! Make sure everybody knows what to do before the situation arises. The message must have stuck because my kids (now in their 40's and with families of their own) all have "intruder plans". Also had a fire evacuation plan for the family. Never had to use the Intruder Plan but did have to use the fire evacuation plan one time. Thank the Lord it worked. Good shooting:)

rlpinca
September 28, 2002, 11:02 AM
I have 3 big dogs and a chihuahauahaua(that's hard to spell). Nobody can walk down my street without me(and the whole neighborhood) knowing about it.

If someone did happen to get into the house without my 2 pound door bell(chihuhuahua) emitting it's high pitched warning, I'd probably wait by my bedroom door and see if they were armed, while the wife called the cops.

Ben Shepherd
September 28, 2002, 11:36 AM
As I've posted on numerous threads, it took my whole life to get what I have. It's mine bought & paid for, if you want it for free you may pay the ultimate price, and still end up with nothing.

Until you have had your home or vehichle burglarized you can't understand the feeling of helplessness and violation.

It happened to me once, won't happen again if I can help it.

I don't have a wife or kids to wory about. So it's all or nothing as far as I'm concerned.

A MANS HOME IS HIS CASTLE.:mad:

jpd82
September 28, 2002, 04:13 PM
Well, I'm rather lucky. I live alone with my 3 dogs, they have the run of the house with a dog door to go out back. They bark at EVERYTHING. So any little noise they hear, they bark. Which at times can make me a little paranoid. Esp. when I'm, say, in the shower. I remember one night the police had my street surrounded. They were searching for someone. All I could imagine was this guy ending up in my house. I had at least 20 different scenarios in my head. But nothing happend.

Drjones
September 28, 2002, 04:30 PM
Ben:

I know what you are talking about.

My car, er, my BABY, was broken into a while ago. How smart was this guy; my $300 celly (Motorola V60) was sitting in the center console, my CD wallet containing about 300 CD's was on the pass. seat, a bag of shirts and stuff I'd just bought were in the back seat. (My car is also a 2000 BMW)

And WHAT DID THE GUY TAKE???

A $50 Cold Steel Recon tanto that was HIDDEN in the drivers door pocket!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

It does make you feel totally helpless and violated to think someone ELSE was rooting around in MY CAR.

IMO, if someone breaks into your HOME, WHATEVER their intentions, they deserve to leave in a body bag. If they are going to take a chance on breaking into someones HOME, they should be rewarded with the consequences.

Idiots...

To respond to the actual thread...it would have to depend on a lot of stuff... do I happen to be home alone? Where are the noises coming from in the house and what sort of noises?

I would DEFINITELY;

1) Get all my guns. (I only have a few as of yet...)

2) Get all my family in ONE room together, give each willing person a gun.

3) Call 911

4) Begin turning on lights wherever I can in the house, trying to alert the BG to our presence. (NOT letting him know we're armed.)

If I catch sight of anyone in my house with any sort of weapon coming towards me, they're leaving via the Coroner's van. In a bag. With a lot of holes in them.

richhelton84
September 28, 2002, 06:46 PM
Dr. Jones is completely right. If you are dumb enough to break into my home, and I see you, you will probably leave in a body bag. I'm not for running through the house like Rambo, because I think there would be a better chance of me getting killed. It's better to play defense from a superior position where you can completely surprise him/her.

I think you've got to be very silent about it, especially if you do decide to play the hero and go on offense. I doubt that hearing the sound of a round being jacked into the chamber of a weapon is going to deter a serious, armed criminal. That will just let him know where you are, and he'd probably try to hunt you down.

My Mossberg 835 is fully loaded, cocked, and put on safe when I go to bed, then when I wake up, it is unloaded and locked up. There is also a Springfield Armory XD-357 in a drawer next to the bed. That is locked and loaded 24 hours a day.

My dog is a Boston Terrier :barf: . Unfortunately, her most ferocious bark is laughable. There is no way it would strike fear into the heart of anyone, especially someone intent on robbing/killing my family. The only thing her bark would do is wake me up so I can prepare.

I'd get the wife up, hand her the XD (she don't like the shotgun), then I'd grab the 835 and we would camp out slightly to the side of the door, so if the intruder decides to shoot through the door, it wouldn't hit us. We don't have kids yet, so I don't have to worry about them at the moment.

We would camp out by the door until either the police arrive or something decides to come through it. If someone decides to come through it, I'd blind them with my mag-lite, positively identify them, and then decide whether or not to eliminate them. If they are identified as a "bad guy", and they are armed, they had better be prepared to meet their maker.

Sure we can say all these hypothetical things about what we are or aren't going to do, but you are never certain until you are actually put in that situation. No situation is going to be like you planned, and you have to be ready to compensate for it. It's good to have a plan, but you still have to think on your feet.

Thankfully, I have never had anyone break into my house yet, and I hope all of you never experience it either. God bless you all.

Remember all of our servicemen and women fighting and dying overseas, and be sure to say a prayer for them.

Rich

rlpinca
September 28, 2002, 07:41 PM
Some of you are forgetting an important part. If someone breaks into your house, steals everything you have worked so hard to get and you catch them on their last trip out to their moving van, you can't shoot them. It doesn't matter if they have your gunsafe on a dolly heading out the door, you can't legally shoot them. If you do, you'll end up in prison and you will get sued by th bg's family for causing the untimely death of such a saint. It sucks but that's how the law works. Unless he has a weapon and makes like he is going to kill you, you can't shoot. Even if you see a gun on one side of his belt, 4 magazines on the other side and a shotgun slung over his shoulder, you still can't do anything until he starts to point one at you.

Some states(PRK) you still coudn't do anything until you have no way to escape. That's right, if you can still make it out of your house, you have to be the one that runs away.

richhelton84
September 28, 2002, 07:52 PM
I didn't realize that, and I'm not certain that your information is totally correct. I suppose it's just a chance I'd have to take. He can have everything in the house as long as he doesn't get too greedy and tries to come into the room where my wife and I are camping out.

If he does come into that room we are in, I'd still shoot him with no hesitation. If he has a gun in his hand, or even a gun on him that I can see, he is going to die, the law be damned. I will never take any chances with my family's safety, espacially in a potential life or death situation. I'd rather do the jail time then have my family and I wiped out.

Rich

Drjones
September 28, 2002, 08:08 PM
Sorry, rlpinca, but you are just wrong.

In the wonderful, lovely land of Texas, you CAN shoot anyone who tresspasses on your property, and/or anyone who is stealing/attempting to steal from you.

Ex: You are woken up in the middle of the night, look out the window, and see someone's smashed your car window and is attempting to steal it. You are perfectly legally justified in shooting them dead.

Also, I don't care what state you are in, I do not believe that the BG actually has to be POINTING a weapon at you for you to be "legally" justified in shooting.

Laws aside, if I see someone in MY house with ANY sort of a weapon, ESPECIALLY a gun, they are dead. I HIGHLY doubt the reason they have it is because they just want to borrow your cleaning kit! :rolleyes:

And according to Massad Ayoob in "Gravest Extreme," if you do happen across an armed intruder in your home, Ayoob TELLS YOU to shoot him IN THE BACK until he is "neutralized." Why? What do you think he's going to do if you yell "freeze!" like in the movies? He isn't going to freeze, and he sure as hell isn't going to drop his weapon! He's likely going to turn and start shooting as soon as he sees you!

Regardless, I see an armed individual in my house, he's gone. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot him in the back if he was armed.

Drjones
September 28, 2002, 08:17 PM
Also:

I live in CA, and I'm not so sure that you gotta run, even out of your own house. I think pretty much all US states basically are of the opinion that "a man's home is his castle" and if you are in danger of being harmed/killed, you CAN use deadly force in your home. Other states fortunately have more liberal laws regarding shooting someone over your property, like texas.

If I'm wrong in stating this (and I'm not a lawyer) well, I just don't care. Break into my house with a weapon in hand and you are dead. That simple.

rlpinca
September 28, 2002, 09:33 PM
I have talked to a Texas DPS officer and a chl instructor about this specific scenario not too long ago. I had heard that about Texas and a few other states. They said, if you or someone else is being endangered, then you can shoot. What sense does it make to legally be able to shoot someone just because they are trespassing? Imagine the media going crazy wtih something like that. A kid slashing tires in some Texan's driveway gets shot at, the antis would go absolutely nuts with something like that. How is defending a car a justifiable reason for killing someone? If you think it is, then just tell the prosecutor that it was ok when he is getting ready to send you away.

California, you have to more or less be backed into a corner to shoot an intruder. If the threat is unavoidable, then you can fire, if you can run away, then the threat is avoidable. I talked to several officers while I lived out there(San Diego area) about that also.

I believe in checking on stuff personally and not just relying on websites. Talk to several police officers and maybe even someone that works for the DAs office in your area before you make any decisions on how to protect yourself.

There's definately a difference between shooting someone in self defense and in shooting someone out of revenge for messing with your stuff. Shootings like that get good people put in prison and it gives antis more propaganda to use. I'm all for protecting my property, but be realistic about it. A broken windshield or stolen TV isn't worth spending a significant portion of your life in jail.

Don't get me wrong, if someone broke into my house I wouldn't just stand there and let them get away. If they had a weapon and were posing a threat to me, I wouldn't hesitate to introduce them to some serious hate and discontent. If they didn't have a weapon, they sure as hell wouldn't get away.

Here's a link that pretty accurately describes deadly force.

http://home.earthlink.net/~spwenger/spwforce.html

I have read the gravest extreme and respect ayoob greatly. But you have to realize that a prosecutor is going to say that you shot the bg in the back while he was trying to get away from you. Everyone knows that juries seem to be somewhat gullible when it comes to shootings. An anti gun jury (becoming very common) wouldn't hesitate to send someone away for shooting someone in the back regardless of the circumstances.

Drjones
September 28, 2002, 09:39 PM
You are wise, little one! ;)

Glad to see you are indeed so well-informed on this subject! I apologise for doubting that!

At any rate, I do agree that a car or most other property isn't worth shooting someone over. However, I wouldn't look down upon someone who was trying to defend what is rightfully theirs. There was quite an extensive thread on this a while ago.

Basically, it comes down to this: if you do not steal someone's car, you will not get shot at. Try to steal someone's car, and you should be ready to take the chance that they will shoot at you.

My talk about the texas laws is based only on what I've read here. There are lots of Texans on these forums.

Again, laws aside, if someone breaks into my home and they are armed, unless they are running away from me, they're leaving my house dead. I'm not flexible on that point.

rlpinca
September 28, 2002, 10:18 PM
I can understand the desire to kill someone messing with your home. But the desire to stay away from a big cuddly cellmate is pretty strong too. How good can you protect your family in prison?

I agree that the bg shouldn't put himself into that position, but the law doesn't seem to care about that. If it were legal to kill someone for screwing up like that, then maybe crime would take a drastic nosedive all across the country. Kids wouldn't be too anxious about spray painting the side of someone's garage and bums would decide to leave my car stereo where it is.

OkieCruffler
September 28, 2002, 10:25 PM
Come to my house looking for trinkets to trade for crack, and you will become damaged goods. :mad: I'll take my chances with a dozen peers. Besides, if I don't take the guy out and the next person he hits is your grandmother who surprises him in the middle of him loading up her good silver...Scum is scum and some gene pools need a little chlorinating.

dinojas
September 28, 2002, 11:51 PM
If I'm not sure of it being an intruder then I will go out as stealth as possible to see. If I am certain it is an intruder... I will wait quietly for them to come to me while I go ahead and try to call the cops.

Blackhawk
September 29, 2002, 12:22 AM
One armed and one held hostage is infinity worse than none armed and both held hostage. Care to recast that sentence....? :confused:

Glamdring
September 29, 2002, 01:23 AM
If a "Bump in the Night" wakes me up the nightstand weapon, a 629 loaded with 44 specials, is in my hand very quickly.

I won't leave the room until/wnless I have time to wake up. Also spend the wake up time listening.

Only once or twice have I ever needed to go and check out noise (ie clear the house). Usually figure out what woke me up and can go back to sleep.

pbarrick
September 29, 2002, 06:37 AM
I fall into a subset of the barricade-in-place crowd.

If I'm in my safe room and all my loved one's are accounted for, my best response to an intruder would be what John Holschen of Insights Training Center (a phenomenal instructor, a man with an extensive background as an operator and an exceptionally nice guy!):

Ensconced, armed and having called 911, I would announce loudly: "Intruder! I am armed and the police are on their way! Leave the house NOW!!"

Three things could occur at this point.

1) The Bad Guy leaves--problem solved.
2) The Bad Guy stays but doesn't approach--the police are better suited for and tasked to resolve this problem.
3) The Bad Guy stays and tries to break in to my safe room--this won't go well for the Bad Guy.

I think this approach makes the most sense because it puts me in the most tactically advantageous position to deal with a known or suspected threat while following John Holschen's mission statement of minimizing the impact [of the situation] to me and mine.

the blind lefty
September 29, 2002, 08:59 AM
we have a guard oriented 200# mastiff upstairs,and a 110# maniac american bulldog in the basement.we have a security system.
i sleep on the floor,which just so happens to be next to my biggest revolver.
we used to have another mastiff who passed away last year.the 3 dog dynamic was confidence inspiring:they all reacted aggressively to exposions. the mastiffs have the sheer size and power,while my american bulldog would fight to the blood and guts end.she is bred from weight pulling lines and stands only 23" at the shoulders at over 100 pounds. additionally,she hates everyone,and will not eat food from strangers;even days later,if i try to feed it to her. she only likes 5 people in the world.
that said,i would advance in a strategic progression,and shoot an intruder to death if he managed to make it through the dogs(good time for Cold Steel Recon Scout as well). if he had determined friends,then it's probably SWAT,and there's been a terrible mistake.
i guess this sounds worse than it is. i'm really an easy going fella,and not paranoid about the situation at all.

pax
September 29, 2002, 09:35 AM
Lots of food for thought in this thread.

Me, I wouldn't try to clear the house unless I had no other option to keep my family safe. Someone once told me that the proper term for clearing a house is "Looking for someone to kill you."

That said, I'm realistically aware that it will probably be necessary for me to move from my downstairs bedroom to my children's upstairs hallway or bedrooms. I've thought through our floor plan and where the danger points are, walking through in daylight, low light, and no light to see how it changes with the lighting. I'm aware that doorways are dangerous, and have decided which spots are more defensible than others, if I'm not safely hidden in my room with the gun pointed at the door.

Bottom line. I'd rather huddle in a safe room and plan for the police to handle it unless the safe room is violated. But with as many family members as I've got, I don't see all of us getting to the safe room without me physically moving from Point 'A' to Point 'B'.

pax

If you don't risk anything, you risk even more. -- Erica Jong

larryw
September 29, 2002, 11:08 AM
I'm with Mr. Barrick. Our house has a bad layout for hunting around at night: the stairs that lead from the bedrooms to the rest of the house have blind corners on both sides of the landing. Besides, the only things that I really care about, my family, all sleep upstairs. I'd push the 911 button on the alarm panel (connected with cellular backup) in our room, grab my gun and take a position at the top of the stairs that allows me to see the flight, but remain hidden. If someone is foolish enough to walk up the stairs, they's be warned once: "I'm armed and the police are on the way". If they continued, they'd be "stopped" by a 45ACP to the chest.

By the way, if you're a barricade in place type, do you always keep a cell phone or other way to call 911 in your bedroom? If I were a BG, first thing I'd do in a house is take the phone off the hook so the homeowner can't call out.

Glamdring
September 29, 2002, 11:29 PM
FYI 911 isn't something to rely on. When I was in college I worked security jobs, more than once 911 would be busy (911 was my "backup"), even if you got thru they were not to likely to come.

If you really NEEDED help you needed to call fire department in that city, they always responded quickly.

I don't claim to have years of experiance in LE/covert ops or any such, but I do get tired of some of the stuff that is "taught" by "experts".

The police in your area might actually respond to calls, have you ever done any checking to find out? How long does it take on average? What is longest time they have ever taken to respond to a call? Do they ignore or chose not to respond to some calls?

I live in MN, and at least twice when 911 was called from work weather prevented any quick response from LE. Both times mild snow storms early in the winter led to lots of minor and majer traffic problems and LE couldn't respond to every call right away. Because of the volume of calls, and also because of poor driving conditions.

Other times the call seems to magically disappear from their records.

I am not saying don't call 911, but people should remember it isn't a magic wand that will make problem dissappear.

Also a true safe room is supposed to be hardend to the point that it can resist attack for as long as it is expected for help to arrive.

You really should have a plan B in case 911 doesn't work. Also you should realize a GOOD response time is anything under 10-15 minutes.
***

I wish someone would do some reprints of the newsletter Cooper and Tappin used to write. I was a bit to young to read them when they first came out :)

I have seen some ideas quoted from that newsletter that sound usefull to me. Like having a light switch in master bedroom wired to turn on light somewhere away from bedroom to draw fire away.

stinger
September 30, 2002, 12:18 AM
rlpinca,
With all due respect, do not take advice from a LEO or a website, unless it happens to come from the lawmakers themselves.

In the great state of Texas, if somebody breaks into your home, you are legally justified in shooting them. They don't have to have fangs or a crowbar. They committed a felony, and your life could possibly be in danger. Many other states have the same type of law, it's called "Make my day" or something like that.
Now if they lie down on their slitthering belly and beg for mercy, that's a different story. As long as they are standing, they present a threat. Front sight, squeeze.

But don't take legal advice from me either. I won't shoot anybody unless there is no other action to be taken. I will barraced myself in my room, if possible. I'm not stupid enough to go looking for some goon in the pitch black.

Stinger

Hemicuda
September 30, 2002, 07:52 AM
Silent but deadly...

gun will be racked as quitely as possible...

SgtGunner
September 30, 2002, 09:04 AM
If I wake in the wee hours of the morning to some fool with my tv in both hands, I need not worry about doing anything...........he will be easy to spot at the emergency room..........he's the guy with the triple hernia. that thing weighs a flippin ton.:D

ahenry
September 30, 2002, 10:00 AM
I have talked to a Texas DPS officer and a chl instructor about this specific scenario not too long ago. I had heard that about Texas and a few other states. They said, if you or someone else is being endangered, then you can shoot. What sense does it make to legally be able to shoot someone just because they are trespassing? Imagine the media going crazy wtih something like that. Try actually reading the law. :rolleyes: You are wrong about the Texas law. Read it for yourself and see.

kungfool
September 30, 2002, 11:02 AM
Regardless of whatever the law is in any particular state, common sense is common sense.

I would immidiately arm myself and make my wife aware there was a problem. I would quietly remain still from whatever vantage point I had. (whether it be behind the bed or simply sitting in the dark) I would instruct my wife to call 911 (anybody ever hear of cell phones?)they canot be "taken off the hook".

I would then maintain surveilence and wait for the cops. But just as soon as I located the threat i would zero in on it. I would not shoot someone who was not in my house. Enter the house and everything changes. I am going to apply common-sense, and common-sense would dictate to me not to take any chances with anyone who would be so brazen and bold as to break into my house, especially with me home!

As far as however the state wants to rewrite common-sense laws, it comes down to his word against mine......and he won't be saying much..............

richhelton84
September 30, 2002, 03:50 PM
quote:
"it comes down to his word against mine......and he won't be saying much.............."

I agree with you totally on that one, kungfool. :)

Rich

rlpinca
October 1, 2002, 12:20 AM
If I'm wrong about the law in Texas try shooting an unarmed trespasser that is posing no immediate danger to your or your family and see where you end up. Like I said before, no state(that I know of) has a provision to allow someone to kill another person out of revenge or protection of property.

If you're sure about it, then post a link to an official DPS related site and show me that it says killing a kid messing around in your backyard is legal. There are pages that list such laws.

Although not an official site, here's a story about a DA telling ranchers they cannot shoot at illegal aliens tresspassing on their property. He says you are allowed to use force, but not deadlyforce.

http://www.ranchrescue.com/news_articles/delriolive_2000aug01_trespassers.PDF

I went ahead and looked it up in one of my books.

Texas Penal Code, Title 2, Chapt 9, Sub chapter D
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
1 if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41(I'll post that if anyone is interested); and
2 when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is IMMEDIATELY necessary:
A to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
B to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
3 he reasonably believes that:
A the land or property CANNOT be protected or recovered by ANY other means; or
B the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.



It leaves alot of vague areas, but a jury would have fun with it. It says nothing about shooting a tresspasser like many believe they are able to, unless they are breaking a few laws, and even then under very specific circumstances.

Like I said in an earlier post. Protect your family, that's your responsibility as a man, but you can't do that from a prison cell.


<<Try actually reading the law. You are wrong about the Texas law. Read it for yourself and see>>

Nope, your turn to read it. Because of ignorance of the law, or just listening to urban legends about it, alot of people are in prison for doing what they thought was allowed.

How do you like them apples?:D :D :D :D

ahenry
October 1, 2002, 10:10 AM
Are you really sure you want to argue this point?

Nope, your turn to read it. Because of ignorance of the law, or just listening to urban legends about it, alot of people are in prison for doing what they thought was allowed. Well you sure seem to be one for missing the obvious. Of course since you don’t live in Texas I wouldn’t expect you to know the law here, I certainly don’t claim to know New Mexico law, but I know when to admit it...

You posted the main part of the law that states when deadly force can be used when there has been a theft. Let me restate the parts you seem to be ignoring: to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and he reasonably believes that: the land or property CANNOT be protected or recovered by ANY other means; or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. Now I took it out of its outline form and stated it in a (perhaps) more readable format. It is confusing and it does not allow wanton use of deadly force. HOWEVER, you insist on claiming that deadly force is not allowed in defense of property and I will again state, you are wrong. Please note that I am not discussing the morality of doing so, nor the practicality of doing so, only the legality of doing so. Also, FWIW there are many, many instances of the use of deadly force in defense of property here in Texas, which never even went to a Grand Jury. Start tossing in the cases the went to a Grand Jury and were no-billed and you get even more. Those remaining cases that went to trial are almost all of a nature that section 9.42 as a legal defense was grasping at straws. There are far, far more instances of the use of deadly force in defense of property that are no-billed than there are instances of people in jail for misunderstanding the law. In fact, I’d like you to find me one, just one, case here in Texas where somebody legitimately thought that they were protect by the law to use deadly force in defense of their property but wound up in jail. I have no doubt that it has happened on occasion (I mean hey there have been innocent people on death row, it happens) but it is a very, very rare occurrence. You really shouldn’t make claims of knowledge where there seems to be such a glaring lack of it.

rlpinca
October 1, 2002, 04:49 PM
I didn't mean to get into a ******* contest with you. Here is the part of Dr Jones's post that I was arguing about.

In the wonderful, lovely land of Texas, you CAN shoot anyone who tresspasses on your property

I was disagreeing with the tresspassing part, not the part about protecting your property from damage. The way alot of people think it works is that someone is on your property without your permission, you can use deadly force. That's the part I was concerned with. I know I said it has no provision for protecting property, but I meant to say trespassing. Even if theft is in progress, you have to walk a fine line when the law says reasonable or

I do keep up on the law there in Texas, I used to live in Amarillo for a little while and go there a few times a month and am thinking about buying some land west of there. So knowing what is acceptable is in my best interest.

How am i displaying a glaring lack of knowledge? Because I disagreed with you? That's a little bit arrogant. Like I said, I was argueing the tresspassing part and I thought that's what you were disagreeing with. The way I took your post was that you were trying to say you COULD shoot an unarmed tresspasser that isn't commiting any of the listed crimes which is a common misconception.

Drjones
October 1, 2002, 05:04 PM
I apologise if my post was misconstrued. I MEANT to say that you are legally OK to shoot someone in defense of your property, not for simple tresspassing. (In TX, at least...)

However, if you happen to catch them "tresspassing" towards your home with an AK-47 in tow, I'd feel MORE than OK in sniping them down from my home window...

jmlv
October 3, 2002, 11:19 AM
i mean that literally of course. I always use mt dogs as mobil responce/warning units. if the bg has a gun he only has a 50% chance of escaping unscaved, if unarmed or only with a knife/blougen type weapon he is basicly toast. My pitbull takes no prisioners and she tends to go for the nether reigons as well. as for megan? well what do you think happens when 120lb of musle and teeth hits bg in the dark? (Saints are STRONG DOGS TOO)
enclosed is pic ov mobile security force.
Of course I back them up with a 38 revolver and a 12 gage pump
(soon to be loaded with tatical buckshot instead of field loads)
If I ever get that second Saint I want well (not sure if I want to just adopt or perhaps help rescue by offering to foster dogs who are between homes) so much the better<vbg>

CMichael
October 3, 2002, 01:04 PM
As a safety precaution, I keep the magazine full, the chamber empty, the trigger lock on,and hide the key. The point of this is that I don't want to be facing the barrell of my own 12 gauge.

Once I get the trigger lock off. I will go to the top of the stairs. That is where I would decide when I should rack it.

Before I give away my position I would like to know where the bad guy is exactly.

Michael

Fred Hansen
October 3, 2002, 01:32 PM
I have only been attacked in a home once. The attacker didn't fair very well at all.

jmlv
October 3, 2002, 01:53 PM
IT mounts to the wall studs and locke the gun actipon & barrel. preventing firing or cycling of shotgun while locked up. 1 key unlocks the gun lower from muzzle plug and loaderup. looks like a neat idea sorta like the a police cruser style lockup for your home

igor
October 4, 2002, 05:32 AM
There's nobody in this world to pass our russian terrier in the night time. External lighting is automatic and blinding. That aside, the way to go is to alert the security company who will get the police in tow, get the 9 mm universal wrench, flashlight and handcuffs and go see. The house topography doesn't allow camping without moving a bit first. But the threat won't be able to be inside the house at all.

pbarrick
October 5, 2002, 12:05 PM
No security plan is one-hundred percent effective. Dogs are a good choice for a roving alert system but a 10-lbs. ankle-biter is just as good as a 120-lbs. Rottweiller if it wakes you up when something is going on in and around the house.

As for one of the posts suggesting leaving a shotgun locked up and chamber empty, I would recommend that the fewer things you have to do in a stressful situation the more likely you are to be able to perform those tasks successfully. If you're grabbing the shotgun, a round needs to be chambered for it to be of use.

Alerting the bad guy to your presence isn't a bad idea when you're at the top of your staircase and he's downstairs. Why would you get into a fight with him if he left when you announced that you were upstairs, armed and awaiting a police response? If he doesn't leave and trys to make his way upstairs, then you are in a better position to deal with him and can judge his intent by his actions (most people won't rush a guy ensconced with a firearm telling him to leave if their intention isn't hostile.).

Drjones
October 5, 2002, 01:44 PM
pbarrick:

I agree that the fewer things you have to do in a stressful situation the better, however it can also be argued that you don't want to grab a fully loaded, chambered weapon when you are suddenly roused in the middle of the night.

I personally keep my 12 completely unlocked, mag loaded, chamber empty, hammer down, by my bed. All I have to do is rack the slide (don't even need to press the slide release) and I'm set.

I think that there is a lot to be said for the sound of a racking 12ga. :D

LASur5r
October 8, 2002, 09:04 PM
Sorry, I'm kind of in the middle of your three types...I don't close the bedroom doors because I am a light sleeper (being a 'Nam vet...learned to sleep light when things go bump in the night.) Depends on the assessment of the sound, I will either check out the house quietly(outside or perimeter sound), or I will hunker down just inside the doorway and lay prone with semi-auto rifle(at this position I can see straight down the hallway and partially into the two bedrooms adjacent to our bedroom), wife will have 12 gauge in fall back position....this is when I am responding to unexpected inside the house sound.
Wife and daughter have responded well to training and have reacted to get to "safe room" while I am "covering" the hallway in the dark.
We also have an alarm system on all doors and windows, motion detector lights outside the house so I know where the movement is coming from and a remote control hallway and living room/family room lights to "back light" folks...now if I can just get some Claymores......hmmm.

A really good friend recommended a dog to walk "guard." Mean to take him up on that suggestion.

I guess that if you want to cut down your worries, layer your defenses....that way, you just make the odds better for you. Name of the game, right?

eroyd
October 9, 2002, 02:02 PM
I would just assume avoid a physical conflict if the BG is only in a position to damage or steal objects. ie. downstairs. I would certainly be waiting to take him out if he started up the stairs. If the intruder was already upstairs I'm sorry to say that I would just go ballistic using whatever means I could to neutralize the threat. I'd be as fast, loud and as violent as possible. I have young children in adjoining rooms. I'd worry about my consequences later.

In Canada it's illegal to have a firearm of any kind that is not secured (locked up) when in storage. Ammo has to be stored separately. This renders firearms pretty much useless for defensive purposes.(legally)

One word of advice, (I heard third party) from a peace officer is to make sure you fire warning shots into the wall. Whether you do that before or after shooting the villian is up to you.

Don Gwinn
October 9, 2002, 05:48 PM
LA, for some reason I thought you were younger than that--a lot younger! Guess not. :)

Until I had kids I said I'd stay in my room, but the one time it happened in this house I didn't do it. Now that I have the boys, I don't think I can do that anymore.

Anyway, what I actually did was to arm myself with a gun and light and announce loudly from the top of the stairs that I was armed but would allow anyone downstairs to leave without harm. Turned out to be a house-settling noise or something.

Now I don't know. Might have to be a little sneakier until I get to the kids, then camp out there.

LASur5r
October 10, 2002, 04:36 PM
Younger? Nah, Don, I think I haven't grown up yet or my wife says it's senility. Haven't figured it out yet.

Maybe because when I post I ask obvious questions? Mostly, I'm just trying to learn from everyone else.....used to think I knew the answers, but I've had my world turned upside down a bunch of times when I just thought I had it figured it out....kind of humbles you and makes you not take things for granted.

So, I'm just one of those "glad to be here guys" if you know what I mean and I know you do. From your posts, sounds like "you've seen the elephant, too."

Peace, brother, peace.

Amegatek
October 15, 2002, 12:42 AM
I would go with the barricade in room/call 911 (cell phone) scenario. Property can be replaced (homeowner's insurance), your life or your loved ones lives cannot. If BG broke into the saferoom, I would perceive that as a threat to my life as well as my family, and would shoot. The way Ohio's self defense law reads, I am sure it would be a justified use of deadly force. As other's have said in this thread, I pray to God, it never happens.

Cowdogpete
October 18, 2002, 04:06 PM
The only time I've thought someone might be in the house, I listened for more noise, hearing none I grabbed the .45 and went to look (shouldn't have left the gauge in the truck). Cleared every room until I was sure no one was in the house. False alarm.

If intruder is known. Call 911. leave door open to bedroom. Turn off all lights to bedroom and assume a low position gun trained on a door. Do not make myself known unless I hear them coming down the hall. Then vocalize that cops are on the way and I am armed.

Instance 2: Same scenario as above but kids are on other end of the house....I'm going hunting. Pie the doorways. Low, stealthy position at the high ready. First one I see is going to get the verbal to stop if he advances or makes a threatening movement I have no doubt I will shoot him.

(FYI: I have looked down the barrel of a 12 gauge at a human being and pulled the trigger.)

Another notation for clarity. The gauge is loaded this way....bean bad round is first out. followed by 4 buckshot and 2 slugs.

The individual I shot was hit and incapacitated with the bean bag round. Bean bag rounds show preclusion in court. And they will stop many people. And I don't have to deal with taking a human life. (I can deal with breaking a few of his ribs) Check into bean bag rounds if they are legal in your area.

illuminatus99
October 19, 2002, 04:44 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and he reasonably believes that: the land or property CANNOT be protected or recovered by ANY other means; or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


from what it looks like it says you can only shoot to protect property that can't be replaced, what that says to me is that if you shoot a bg for taking your VCR the jury will bury you if you've got insurance or can afford to buy a new one, it seems that you could only protect things that are completely irreplaceable.

illuminatus99
October 19, 2002, 04:52 AM
1) alarm goes off


2) we've got two doors to the bedroom, one through my office and one at the top of the stairs. the wife grabs the 870 under her side of the bed and I grab the mossy under mine and head into my office.

3) from my office I turn on all the lights in the house (I encourage everyone to get a system like that set up, it's worth every penny) and watch the bg on the cameras, (some hidden some not). if I so choose I can talk to him over the intercom to let him there's a nice video of him on a webserver 40 miles away.

4) if for some strange reason he doesn't leave and decides to come up the stairs it's all over.


I'm thinking about getting a color PDA with wireless connectivity, that way if I need to I can go down the stairs while watching the cameras.

ahenry
October 21, 2002, 12:08 AM
from what it looks like it says you can only shoot to protect property that can't be replaced, what that says to me is that if you shoot a bg for taking your VCR the jury will bury you if you've got insurance or can afford to buy a new one, it seems that you could only protect things that are completely irreplaceable. How many stolen VCR’s are recovered? I know several victims of theft (including myself) and I have yet to know one person that has recovered the item(s) stolen. Insurance does not constitute “recovered by any other means” by any stretch of the imagination as the law states "recovered" not replaced and case law supports this. Of course it is important to remember that while use of force is justified to protect ones property, use of lethal force has some extra requirements, namely that the use of less than lethal force would subject one to substantial risk of death or serious bodily harm. There are a myriad of instances where lethal force has been used in defense of property (even for small, relatively inexpensive items) in which the case was never even brought before a grand jury, much less brought before a grand jury and no-billed. In most of the instances where this section of the Penal Code is used as a legal defense and fails, “the whole story” is usually of a nature where using such a defense is grasping at straws (meaning there are other factors that this defense is a last ditch attempt and the "victim" usually wasn't exactly a "victim").



None of this is a recommendation to use lethal force in defense of property. Each person must make that decision for themselves, I am merely trying to explain the Penal Code for Illuminatus99. Feel free to make your own decision regarding when you will choose to use lethal force and when you will not.

pbarrick
October 24, 2002, 08:02 AM
drjones,

I agree that the sound of racking the slide on a shotgun has a definite psychological impact. However, I think that psychological edge is less important than the ability to engage the potential Bad Guy without having to manipulate the weapon system and more than I have to.

I also agree that every bump in the night doesn't deserve an immediate action drill of grabbing a weapon and barricading in place. But if it IS a noise that makes me think a weapon might be necessary, I see no reason for it to be in a condition other than one that's going to have it instantly ready to go when I need it.

Training and consistency are the key (as I'm sure you know). My only concern with your chosen method is safety (yep, the kid thing). My personal feeling is that, if it's not on me (i.e., in my direct control), it needs to be locked up. Of course, that means a setup that would allow for the weapon being stored and ready to go.

Which reminds me, there's a local fellow in Louisiana who has a pretty neat setup for that sort of thing that's as bomb-proof as you can get without a government contract. Take a look:

http://www.hsdh.com

Logistar
October 24, 2002, 10:16 AM
I think it depends on the situation.

I have heard suspicious noises more than once. EVERY TIME so far, I grab a gun (chambered and ready - always) and investigate. My logic is that I'd rather "ID" them before they get inside if possible.

If they are inside (at least I believe that they are) then I don't want to walk right into them. I will take a position where they will walk into MY view. (I would have the element of surprise.)

If I was SURE that they were in the next room and I "felt" they weren't aiming a weapon at the doorway waiting for me to walk in.... I might move into the doorway and "get the drop" on them.

None of this is planned. It just happens. I react based on each situation. But no, I generally don't wait for them to come and get me. And- I have never even thought about calling 911. (Although if I saw 5 or 6 BGs with guns on my porch at 2:30 AM I might call 911 then!)

YMMV

Logistar

Ladybug
October 25, 2002, 09:05 PM
Well, I AM the wife, and something DID go bump in the night a couple of nights ago! :p

My husband was out of town... I was at the computer, at about midnight, when I heard someone running through our yard (we have a gravel driveway and stone patio, and the steps were easy to hear)... now our house is far enough from the street that there is NO reason for someone to be running in the driveway/patio. I grabbed my gun, made sure a round was chambered, grabbed the phone, closed the bedroom door, hunkered down in the closet (there were some curtains open -- bad idea), and called 911. Oh, and the dog? The same one who goes ballistic if the mailman comes, or a meter man is in our yard? She didn't even wake up when three police officers with flashlights were circling the house! I wanted to kill her! :mad:

1. I don't WANT to shoot anyone. I will not hesitate to if I have to, but if at all possible I'd rather not.
2. In Arkansas, you have to "make a reasonable effort" to get away/hide -- ie, you can't run out into the yard and shoot someone.

Luckily I live less than a thousand feet from a police station, so they made it here in about 30 seconds!

ddelange
October 27, 2002, 03:04 PM
I was going to add my own unique tactic for home survival until I read pb's post that sums up my point of view, and bears repeating:

Ensconced, armed and having called 911, I would announce loudly: "Intruder! I am armed and the police are on their way! Leave the house NOW!!" . . .
1) The Bad Guy leaves--problem solved.
2) The Bad Guy stays but doesn't approach--the police are better suited for and tasked to resolve this problem.
3) The Bad Guy stays and tries to break in to my safe room--this won't go well for the Bad Guy.

There are many suggestions out there concerning how to make a good and "hard" safe room. The first priority should be replacing the typically cheap door to the bedroom with a sturdy wood door or better yet a steel door (Stanley makes some that look like wood, and cost less) with a one way dead bolt. A steel door frame with steel door is even better; every home should have one at the main entrance, and at the entrance to the designated safe room, where all family members should be trained to retreat to in a break in situation.

CULLENIII
November 14, 2002, 04:50 PM
I hunker the misses down with the 12, 38, flashlight, and cell phone dialed 91.. And I go out with the door closed in my body armor, 2 flashlights, 2 handguns and cell phone and clear house. If noise is outside I may grab carbine, but never go outside.

BogBabe
November 15, 2002, 08:44 PM
Does anybody besides me think that the introduction of the split-bedroom plan was a terrible concept with regard to protecting your family?

My daughter's bedroom is on the completely opposite side of my house from my bedroom. In order to get to her room to ensure her safety, I'd have to traverse the entire house -- out of my bedroom, through the living room, past the kitchen and dining room (both rooms open to the LR) and then into the hallway to the other bedrooms.

If attempting to clear a house by yourself is a bad thing, but gathering your family into one spot and then hunkering down is a good thing, I'm just out of luck. Can't do one without doing the other first.

Oleg Volk
November 16, 2002, 02:16 PM
A kid slashing tires in some Texan's driveway gets shot at, the antis would go absolutely nuts with something like that

1. There's always one more perp than you see...so if you observe someone doing something to your car (disabling it? placing abomb under the hood? using it as cover to gove other infiltrators support?), it would be reasonable to eliminate the visible threat and search for the rest.

2. On a purely ethical note, anyone victimizing others ought to remain alive only at the discretion of the wronged party. On a practical note, most sane people don't exclude the possibility of some innocent explanation and so don't shoot until absolutely certain.

coonan357
November 16, 2002, 11:39 PM
when the Ex future mrs coonan spent the night , she woke me up to tell me she heard some thing making noises outside of the front of the house I grabbed the lda and the surefire and told her to stay put and make sure the cell was near by , also I told her where the backup was at and not to get it unless shot where fired , all it was was a hungry critter in the trash . needless to say i didn't sleep a wink that night but she did ..

taxyman
November 17, 2002, 02:04 AM
looking through the posts i've seen a bunch of "I'll protect everything I have" {except myself}. If you are really going to go gettem I would suggest taking time to put on the armor I have only seen one post where somebody going to protect what is theirs who wants to protect himself enough to accomplish this. If someone is willing to come into your home know you are home more than likely they;
#1 are not alone
#2 are probably armed in one way or another
#3 Stoned
#4 just plain stupid and should be locked up for that alone..... :D

I have had to leave the safety of the bedroom and go out into the house, the dog alerted and wife heard something waking me up. She stays on oppsite side of bed from the door armed {just in case} first thing grabbed and thrown on is armor { which aside from weapons is beside the bed} then the G23 and maglite. She stands by the phone with 911 dialed in ready to make call should the call need to be made. B4 shooting someone you better be in immeadite danger of "serious bodily harm" {shooting one in the back on his way out your door not a good idea}. MAKE THE SHOT COUNT if it needs to be taken {they can't testify against you in a civil suit {which is sure to follow } if they are pushing up daisies.

Seeker
November 17, 2002, 03:12 PM
Bogbabe;

Also if you trade shots with BG who is between you (in your bedroom) and your kids, your kids are downrange.

JeepDriver
November 18, 2002, 07:17 PM
If the dog barks, I'm up. When I open that door there better not be anyone in the house.

I let my dog make that call. If I let her out of the bed room and she keeps barking the pistol is in my hand. If they don't run from her (or God forbid hurt the dog) They won't be bothering anyone the next night.

Brrlgrrl
November 20, 2002, 12:09 AM
In regard to a comment LASur5r made:

"A really good friend recommended a dog to walk "guard." Mean to take him up on that suggestion."

I am very interested in this. I had a friend who taught her Dobie to "go see". From a whisper this dog would go on alert and check the area. I am interested in how your friend taught his dog to walk guard. Check only doors and windows, or actually walk the perimeter during the night?

My perfect alarm system would be those motion sensor lights w/o the lights that would quietly raise the kennel doors. I love the fact that Dobermans for the most part are quiet, but bark if there is reason. My last one died 2 years ago, and I need to get another one. He wasn't much of a guard dog though, since he spent the night wrapped in a blanket in the laundry room!

Kharn
November 21, 2002, 10:23 AM
My house: Grab shotgun and go looking.
Girlfriend's house: Yell at the two German Shepards to not chase whoever just turned tail and ran for the street while screaming about big dogs taking their pound of flesh.

Kharn