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View Full Version : Who Makes the Best Civilian M14?


QuadOughtBuck
August 22, 2002, 11:24 PM
That's the question, out of all the companies (Springfield, Fulton, Armscorp, MKS, Enterprise Arms, etc) who do you think,

1. Makes the best civilian M14 in terms of being as true to the origonal as possible.

2. Makes the best M14 value, aka most gun for your buck.

3. Makes the best M14 in terms of quality, accuracy, match grade, etc?

And for each of your answers, tell why you think those companies are the best in their areas. My choices...

1. MKS: Not only do they make forged M14 recievers they use the correct, center op rod takedown. I have heard from those who have actually recieved thier MKS rifles that they are truly a work of art. Of course MKS is also world famous for the worst customer service and legal problems which is why I wouldn't want to risk getting an MKS rifles.

2. Armscorp: They make a good hardcast reciever, sure it's not forged, but it can still hold it's own. Besides the reciever they make their rifle using only forged GI parts, and for a standard grade you can get a nice M14 with all GI parts at around only $1,300!! Not much more money than a springfield made with all cast parts! Sure Springfield might be able to make some rifles a little big cheaper, but they use all cast parts. And even if you can buy a springfield for around $100-300 less than a basic armscorp, that little bit of money doesn't justify the difference that USGI parts make. In other words, having all USGI parts on your rifle is worth well more than $100-$200. You will be thankful in the long run.

3. I really can't tell, but I would imagine Ron Smith of Enterprise arms does one of the best jobs. I have little experience when it comes to match grade rifles, nevermind smiths. I am sure that all of the companies can make accurate rifles, which one can make the most accurate is beyond me.

C.R.Sam
August 23, 2002, 01:20 AM
Didn't think anybody made a civillian M14.

Sam

QuadOughtBuck
August 23, 2002, 01:22 AM
Sure they did, since real M14s are illegal to own companies had to construct their own civilian legal models. That's all you can own today unless you have a class 3 license.

Kharn
August 23, 2002, 07:15 AM
ALL MKS recievers are being confiscated by the ATF, even the new ones. MKS seems to have forgotten to check with the ATF before selling the new production recievers (not just the rewelds) and the ATF has determined them to be easily converted to full auto.

Kharn

Fred S
August 23, 2002, 07:24 AM
I have a Springfield M1A, the basic model, and I like it. It has mostly GI parts. The gun shoots very well and I use it in my Club's highpower matches.

I have had two things go wrong in the three years I've owned it. The TRW (GI) bolt has caused trouble twice. One time the extractor came flying out after shooting a round. No biggie, a friend of mine put it right back together. This year the bolt roller came of as the little ring holding it on fell apart. I called Springfield, they told me to send them the bolt and in a few weeks it came back fixed and the gun shoots fine.

There's lots of M1As out there and everyone I've talked to is happy with theirs.

Fred

Blackhorse
August 23, 2002, 07:30 AM
I have a Springfield M1A NM, luv it. but confused on the civilian M14, haven't seen an M14 since my army days in the late 60's and didn't realize that it was being produced for the civilian market or that it could be.:confused:

CWL
August 23, 2002, 04:16 PM
Civilian M14s don't exist. There ARE however, legal copies of the M14 rifle, the most common being M1A models by Springfield Armory.

The Springfield Loaded models are probably the best bang you can get.

If you want absolute quality, and shoot competitively, then get a Springfield reciever and send it to Fulton Armory for a Peerless build. Clint Mckee will take care of you.

KSFreeman
August 23, 2002, 06:51 PM
No civilian M14s??? Dude, that is sooo bogus! (A little California lingo). Mr. Hand, I don't need to study riflery. All I need are some tasty waves and pizza to eat in class. [surfer laugh].

Shore nuff (a little Arizona lingo) are civilian versions of the M14, e.g., the AR Sales Co.'s Mk IV raffle. They aren't made anymore because we ended crime in November of 1968 with the SSA, but they still exist. The M1A was ALMOST yanked too, but after redesign the IRS allowed it.

CWL
August 23, 2002, 07:05 PM
Dude,

Been to AZ enough times, enough 'Dudes' there as well. Must be something to do with the 115degree heat.

In answering 0000buck's question, no-one makes a civilian M14. Rather than sending him off on a quest for 20 year old rifles, I thought it may be easier for him to start down the easier road.

KSFreeman
August 23, 2002, 07:07 PM
CWL, Duuude, you are soooo right! [surfer laugh] No one makes them presently, but they did and do exist.

0000Buck, can own M14 if you get it on a 4 as well as if have SOT.;)

C.R.Sam
August 23, 2002, 08:46 PM
We gots good surfin in the Valley of Death (Phoenix to flatlanders.) Ah dont goes there tho, place is full of pencil necked geeks n lawyers n furriners n stuff lak thet.
N carpetbagger McCain.

Sam

CWL
August 23, 2002, 08:56 PM
C.R.Sam,

But you miss out on all dem ASU coeds in their sun dresses!

smoney
August 23, 2002, 09:20 PM
The M14 is the military designation of the full auto M1A so how can any semi auto be a "m14"

Springfield armory. www.springfield-armory.com makes the best there is, depending on what you want, basic model is pretty much the military type model. then it goes up from there. to whatever options you want.

Gewehr98
August 23, 2002, 10:36 PM
The M14 is nothing other than a type designator. True, the USGI M14 is a select-fire rifle. See the gun below? It's NOT an M1A. What it is, and what's marked on the receiver, is M14NM. Is it select fire? No. Is it a Springfield Inc. gun? No. Armscorp of Baltimore, Maryland makes complete rifles and receivers, and designates them as either M14NM or M21. They do this because Springfield, Inc., and their corporate lawyers, copyrighted the M1A designation. Uncle Sam really couldn't care less if a private manufacturer calls their rifle an M14, M21, M24, M40, or whatever, as long as they don't run afoul of any federal firearms laws in thier manufacture. Hence, a civilian-legal M14, albeit semi-auto, designated as a National Match variant.

Norinco/Polytech did the same thing with their semi-auto M14 clone, calling it the M14/S.

An analogy would be people calling any copying machine a Xerox, regardless of manufacture, or being handed a Pepsi at the restaurant when you asked for a Coke. There is a difference.

BTW, as far as Springfield, Inc. being the best, that's debatable. After closely inspecting two horribly-created M1A receivers that should never have left Geneseo, Illinois, I went with the better Armcorp receiver, Krieger barrel, and a complete (sans receiver and "naughty bits") H&R USGI donor gun, to create the one below. This rifle served admirably in High-Power competition before getting a scope and switching gears to 500 meter and out tactical competitions. Your mileage, of course, may vary. ;)

http://mauser98.com/m14nm.jpg

Kaylee
August 24, 2002, 10:49 AM
QuadOughtBuck...

yeah. what you said. :)


I have a Smith, haven't butchered it TOO badly yet.... nice, but in my experience so far not worth the premium over the more run of the mill M14 clones..


As to the whole M14/M1A fuss.
Bother. You say carbyne, I say carbean. ;)


You say "M1A" and folks holler 'cause you ain't got a Springfield Inc. gun.

You say "M14" and folks holler 'cause you ain't got a connector rod. (About the klugiest full auto system I can imagine, now that I've seen it.. wierd)

Some days, ya just can't win.


-K

dud614
August 24, 2002, 04:44 PM
I'm sitting here with a Fed Ordnance M14A. My son shoots real well with it. It is a semi-auto.

telewinz
August 25, 2002, 08:12 PM
I've Had an Armscorp for about 5 years now and it's all GI parts except the receiver which is marked M14. It shoots according to the ammo I use, surplus about 2" for 5 shots hot or cold barrel, with match grade it will shoot 7/8 to1.25 inch groups depending on my skills and patience at the time. But I must admit since I got the Romak 3 the M14 has been getting a great deal of rest! Push come to shove, I'd get another Romak 3 (and I just might) before I'd get another HK, FAL, or M1A (oops, M14).:)

twix
August 25, 2002, 08:42 PM
Can't help with your question, but wanted to tell Gewher98 "Cool Rifle!". Thaks for sharing.

QuadOughtBuck
September 3, 2002, 07:40 PM
"Looks like the average Joe will never be able to own the M14"

You mean a select fire version of the M14. The "M1A" name is a copywritten code for SA's M14 rifles. No other M14 clones can be called M1As or are M1As. I own an M14! I mean, come on. We don't call the civilian clones of the AR-15, "AR-1Bs" or something foolish like that. Someone with say a Bushmaster AR-15, calls it an AR-15 even though it is not select fire, same with the M14, same with the M14.

Nightcrawler
September 3, 2002, 08:42 PM
Why so anal about the semantics? Why give him a hard time? Do you ever call a post-ban Bushmaster an AR-15? You shouldn't. It's technically an XM15E2S or something similar. The AR-15 was a Colt rifle no longer in production.

Do you call your Romanian an AK? You shouldn't. It's not an Avtomat Kalashnikov. It's a Romanian SAR-1,2, or 3. Or maybe you have a Saiga semiauto, or an SLR-95, or a Maadi MISR-10, or a Polytec Legend, or a Norinco Sporter. None of them are AK-47s, yet that's what we call them.

My rifle is a DS Arms STG58A. It is NOT a Fabrique Nationale Fusile Automatique Leger. I call it a FAL anyway.

See where I'm going with this? :rolleyes:

Anyway, I had no idea the Armscor receivers were so good...

QuadOughtBuck
September 3, 2002, 10:44 PM
Amen, brother. Amen.

Gewehr98
September 4, 2002, 10:29 AM
Nightcrawler, I'm sure you knew this, but your post could confuse some folks...



Anyway, I had no idea the Armscor receivers were so good...

Armscor (Arms Corporation of the Phillipines) Make all these guns, but no M14 clones: http://www.armscor.com.ph/armscor/index2.htm


Armscorp (Armscorp USA, Baltimore, Maryland) US-made M14 semiauto rifles:http://armscorpusa.com/Products/info.htm

Just reminding folks there is indeed a difference. ;)

4V50 Gary
September 4, 2002, 10:37 AM
Concur with Gewehr98 about semantics. We all know what the question was and should try our best to answer it. It's the spirit of helping one another out that makes The Firing Line what it is to us, the members.

Regarding receivers, there were batches of casted Springfield Armory receivers that, apart from being casted, were made to mil-spec standards. However, those over the 50k range were questionable and the bridge (or web) of the receiver was never done quite cleanly enough. Same with the Fed Ord receviers. About 4 years ago, I wouldn't touch a new Springfield but I do hope in that time they've corrected the mistake. There are a lot of posts by me discussing some problems of them (do a search).

The best civilian version I've seen is from Smith Enterprise. They made some machined ones and some castings (mine is a casting). Haven't seen the Armscorp version so I can't comment on them.

Personally, I'd like to see the Taiwanese make them since they got all our dies. All they have to do is cut off the part that holds the selector shaft while it is a rough forging and before they finish the receiver (never a machine gun that way and can be importable).

Nightcrawler
September 4, 2002, 12:20 PM
Actually, G98, I DIDN'T know, and that's why I was so confused. LOL Armscorp vs. Armscor. Gotcha! :o