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View Full Version : What do you do? Stop, or give chase?


nbk2000
August 18, 2002, 09:40 AM
You're driving along a two lane highway in the proverbial middle of nowhere (you haven't seen another car in hours) when a POS car ahead of you slows down a bit, passenger door opens, and a baby seat with the BABY in it is kicked out onto the side of the road!

:eek:

What do you do?

Stop to see if the baby survived?

OR

Do you assume that the baby is dead, so you give chase on the vehicle till you're able to either stop it or get police attention?

Since you're in the middle of nowhere, there's no cellphone service for MILES, and the POS doesn't have a license plate, so it's either check on the baby and possible never find the responsible person...or give chase and the baby dies because you didn't get it to a hospital instead.

What do you do?

Najdorf
August 18, 2002, 10:08 AM
I don't think that there is a hard choice here. Making sure that the baby gets to safety and medical attention is the priority. Babies in car seats have survived terrible crashes, so assuming death would be a bad assumption. If you gave chase and found out later that the baby bled to death or died after being hit by another car it would be hard to live with.

wingnutx
August 18, 2002, 02:25 PM
This is a very disturbing question.

I'd have to say check the baby first.

Blackhawk
August 18, 2002, 02:31 PM
Baby.

Astonished that there would be any question about it!

C.R.Sam
August 18, 2002, 03:53 PM
Kid first priority.
If strapped into seat, leave in seat and transport to nearest communications.

Sam

70-101
August 18, 2002, 04:26 PM
First thing, Stop and rescue the child. Then call 911 ASAP and request medical help.Do not chase other car,but report license number and discription to Police/Sheriff ASAP.By the way, my cell phone and I am sure many other peoples cell phones will work just about anywhere in the U.S.

C.R.Sam
August 18, 2002, 08:29 PM
Since you're in the middle of nowhere, there's no cellphone service for MILES, and the POS doesn't have a license plate, so it's either check on the baby and possible never find the responsible person...or give chase and the baby dies because you didn't get it to a hospital instead. Original stipulations...NO plate. NO celphone.

Sam

Peter Gun
August 18, 2002, 08:42 PM
Nkb2000- I think you need to examine why you have such a need to be the vigilante. This should not be a question unless you care more about shooting people or "making the collar" than actually helping your fellow man.
70-101- Even though they tell you that in the commercials, it aint true. here in VT and other rural areas I've been to, cell phones are very unreliable. Relying on a cell phone is unwise.

Camel
August 18, 2002, 10:08 PM
Save the kid and get a satellite phone.

FScott
August 19, 2002, 11:52 AM
I'll ditto the rescue child and get to communications as soon as possible.

Correia
August 19, 2002, 12:19 PM
Rescue the kid.

CWL
August 19, 2002, 03:46 PM
Life of innocent comes first, vengeance can come later.

foghornl
August 19, 2002, 07:42 PM
Grab baby seat, toss in your car, and follow discreetly until cel-fone works

nbk2000
August 24, 2002, 10:30 AM
I applaud everyones humanity in choosing to rescue the kid, over chasing down the driver. That's the choice I'd make too.

We'd also have just been robbed of our cars.

Believe it or not, not all criminals ("Goblins" in TFL parlance) are stupid. They even had (probably still have) forums of their own where they exchanged information and techniques.

This is one of those techniques.

Because they know that any normal (non-psychopathic) human being would stop to check on the baby. And where the "baby" got kicked out would be a nice place out of range of cellular, visually isolated, and remote.

You'll have stopped to check on the baby, only to find yourself turning around to the sound of your cardoor slamming shut and the sight of your taillights receding in the distance.

And don't give me any of the OODA loop and condition orange tactical crap because you know full damn well you're not going to stop your car, survey your surroundings, then turn off the vehicle, roll up the windows, and lock the doors.

No.

You'd do what any normal person would do:

Stomp on the brakes, throw open the door, and run into the bushes to find the kid. Car running, keys in the ignition, door wide open.

The "goblins" know this and are going to use the highly emotional reaction of seeing a "baby" thrown to its death to completely override any thought you may have of being "tactical" and send you into primal mode.

And while you're stomping around for junior, an accomplice comes out from the other side and hops into the running vehicle and splits with it, leaving you in the MON.

Wouldn't you feel foolish standing there with a baby doll in your hands in the darkness, with no idea of when the next car will be coming along? I sure would. :o

Najdorf
August 24, 2002, 02:47 PM
I'm glad you brought up this potential criminal tactic, but are you sure it isn't urban/rural myth? (i.e. any cases of this actually happening that can be verified?). Seems to take a lot of planning and coordination at high risk of being caught and not getting the car. In any case it's a good hypo.

I don't think leaving the car running is what any normal person would do.

Let's start with the assumption that you're not negligent and take a second to take your keys out-
(1) They're going to have every cop in the county bearing down on them if you had and used a cell phone, which they won't know (2) if you don't stop at exactly the right point you may hear / see them hoofing it to your car (3) what if you have guns and multiple people are in your car and not all get out (4) what if you don't go very far from your car to look and are armed or make it back to the car (5) what if several more cars come along (6) what if their woman kills them for taking her car seat. It seems like a lot of ways to get caught to me.

But I guess it makes sense to expect ambush or trouble if you just saw a baby being thrown out of a car.

CWL
August 24, 2002, 03:03 PM
We had something like that happen 'bout 2 years ago when tha road-rage guy threw the dog out into traffic.

Everyone stopped to assist the dog & the hysterical owner.

Nobody tried to follow the BG. Just got description of man & car.

nbk2000
August 24, 2002, 07:24 PM
Simple enough to test out.

Just buy a used carseat at the thrift store and stick a baby doll in it (the kind that move).

Place by side of road (not a busy one that might cause a wreck) with "baby" facing the road. Chain it down so no one steals it. :) Oh, and a note on it saying something like "Thank you for your participation in the (Some college) psychologly research project".

Record number of people who drive by versus those who stop to check "the baby". I'll bet at least 90% will slow to a crawl to at least look, and at least half stop to get out and look.

You're telling me that you just see a baby get kicked out of a car on the freeway and you're going to stop, turn off the car, and take the keys with you?! You'd be a lot cooler than I'd be in that situation.

(1) No cell service area, remember? It's not that hard to find them, just drive around with your cellphone turned on and watch the signal strength meter.

(2) Terrain can dictate where you'll stop. And that's where they'd be waiting.

(3) Any crim smart enough to use a decoy and work as a team is going to choose suitably solitary prey.

(4) Possible, but what if "baby" is in the bushes...at night? And where's your flashlight when you need it most? You're in the bushes trying to find the kid, how quickly can you run back through the bushes to the car before someone can get a running vehicle into drive and split?

(5) He could buy her a new one with what he'll make selling your car. ;)

Peter Gun, you've obviously never read any of my previous topics, eh? Please do so before calling me a gun slinging vigilante.

Najdorf
August 24, 2002, 08:10 PM
But how long into your experiment before you find yourself explaining it to the Sheriff's Deprtment, who aren't amused?
Perhaps they assume that you're a bad guy trying the trick yourself. Or maybe someone does skid to a stop, wrecking, and sues you. I won't bore you with causes of action. :o)

I've been taking the keys with me after I stopped for years, it's habit now. I would definitely take the keys, especially after reading this thread.

They pull up beside 3 or 4 different cars, straining to look in through the darkness and factory tinted windows at 60 mph, aborting each time and turning around to wait for a car with one passenger. Sounds like they might get reported and stopped before they ever get "baby" out the window.

He might buy her a new one, but these things have sentimental value to a woman.

Oh, btw, my (black & hard to notice at night) very territorial and utterly stubborn Shar Pei goes almost everywhere with me, except work. I really hope that this would be one of those times. That would be pricelss to get on film. :P Thanks, this thread helped me reinforce to my wife why we should take Rover (not his real name) with us all the time.

O/U
August 25, 2002, 08:38 AM
for even asking this question.:confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Rickmeister
August 28, 2002, 02:25 PM
Ever consider this possibility?

You stop to check baby. Baby turns out to be a 20-inch midget. Midget pulls a .457 Wildey Magnum on you and says: "Hah! What a sap! I can't believe you fell for it! Now gimme your money and your keys, or I'll blow your #$@&% teeth out the back of your head!"

wingnutx
August 28, 2002, 04:50 PM
Assuming my girlfriend is with me:

I give chase, steering with my left hand. My right hand is holding my gf by the ankle as she dangles out the passenger window, scooping up the baby-seat as we streak by at an obscene speed.

It helps having a girlfriend who's read all the Ashida Kim books and is a practicing ninja.

Double Naught Spy
August 28, 2002, 06:07 PM
The baby scenario happened sometime back and was highlighted on America's Most Wanted, only nobody saw the baby go out and inside the confines of the car seat, the baby survived being discarded at speed and later simply died of exposure.

After you gently collect the baby, making sure not to exacerbate any injuries that may have occurred in the fall (sorry, no high speed snatches off the pavement, wingnutz), you then get the baby to a hospital. You do not give chase. That is not to say you don't continue in the same direction as the bad guy, if that is the closest direction of help, but you don't actually give chase.

Heck, if the car is an old beater POS as described, there is some good likelihood that I would end up passing the guy on the way to the hospital.

When somebody else's life is in your hands and their survival depends on you, you don't perform any sort of vigilante after the fact justice no matter how good it might feel to you. I have 2 kids that ride in car seats. I know how I would feel. Even so, the ONLY priority is getting medical attention for the kid. Unless you are an MD, then more than likely you won't have the training necessary to determine what trauma the kid may have suffered even if the kid itself did not actually hit the pavement and shows no immediately apparent signs of trauma. Such violent episodes can result in shaken baby syndrome where the brain gets bruised and can result in swelling of the brain that can be fatal if untreated.

Better to save the kid and let the bad guy get away than to get the bad guy and let the kid get away (dead).

wingnutx
August 28, 2002, 06:59 PM
I've seen "Raising Arizona" 47 times, and I'm pretty sure it would work.