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LASur5r
August 15, 2002, 12:27 PM
Why do many of the martial artists here recommend learning an unarmed martial arts besides sharpening up our gun skills?

Shouldn't just learning gun skills be enough for most self-defense situations?

Hemicuda
August 15, 2002, 12:40 PM
my way of thinking is that if i let them get within arms-reach of me, I done did screwed up already...

that said, I can grapple pretty well, and do understand some of the physics of fighting (enough to save my bacon pretty well, if need be)

but I personally don't see a need to learn a MA, and don't care to do so...

stick
August 15, 2002, 03:57 PM
Firearms training is not enough. Given where I live, I can legally carry in my house, that's all. Since I spend most of my awake time outside that comfy environment (meaning no gun), I need to study-practice alternative defensive measures plus a good dose of situational awareness.

Assuming, I am armed I still would be studying various alternatives. Why? Simple: there are times when you may not be armed (sporting event, the local pub, your child's school, bank,...). Throw in the nasty surprises life tends to throw you (gun-goes-click, turn-around-BG-already-in bad-breath-range, walking out of a disarmed event,...) and you will need to "create space". Maybe a "martial art" is not necessary but rounding out your defensive abilities by training in the use of hands, feet, OC, sticks, chairs, and cats has a definite place in the preservation of ones hide.

CWL
August 15, 2002, 04:45 PM
Aside from the times when you don't have a firearm on you, or you are somewhere where you have no access to any, there are likely situations where the use of a firearm is not warranted.

An easy example would be dealing with an unruly drunk in a bar/restaurant.

Blackhawk
August 15, 2002, 04:48 PM
Agree with stick and have a retrospective point of view. As you get older, stiffness, slowness, and lessened agression sets in. It doesn't have to, but neither do lots of other things that just do.

I haven't been active in any MA for a long time, and I don't want to be. But I did learn way back when what I could do, and what others could do to me with a few of the MAs. Recognizing some of the potential moves somebody could inflict on you is an "early alert" skill and my counter moves for them are small -- about 9mm give or take.

The last MA class I was at (not as a participant) was an eye opener. It was a karate course for women, and any one of them would most certainly have regretted using what they'd learned against any male with the tinyest bit of MA training instead of running like the wind, which, of course, isn't always an option.

Point is that the understanding of self, discipline, and the power of a trained mind is a very good thing to have in an SD situation even and maybe especially when you DO have a gun.

wingnutx
August 15, 2002, 09:26 PM
Sometimes you simply can't use your gun-fu, no matter how good you are at it.

Flying, for instance. One of the catalysts that got me back into MA was the 9/11 hijackings. I don't ever want to be in the position where I'm cowed by some idiot with a razor.

It's also not enough to be armed is someone jumps you out of the blue. I've had this happen more than once, and it sucks.

I'd definitely rather work smarter (use a gun) than harder, but sometimes you simply have to do things the hard way.

C.R.Sam
August 15, 2002, 10:35 PM
A gun...
Like the body, knife, club, rock or whatever;
Is mearly a tool.
The MIND is the weapon.
And it must be trained to observe, detect, analyze, control the tools etc.

An armed person with tools of harm is still defensless unless they have the will and skills to defend themselves.
Will in caps.

Sam

gryphon
August 16, 2002, 04:08 PM
"enough" is never enough. We should always be striving to perfect, enhance, get better at everything we do. I at one time was narrow minded and thought that martial arts were enough. They are not. Martial arts, various weapons systems, situational awareness training, etc should all be incorporated into one package.

vi9er
August 16, 2002, 04:23 PM
you hear alot about "tools in the box" and levels of escalation. An effective martial art,(keyword effective) is simply another tool in your arsenal. Frankly, i never want to have to use my weapon to take anyones life, unless it is absolutley necessary. That is why i feel an effective martial art is important. If the situation can be resolved with less than lethal force, than that is much more preferable than killing someone. Does that mean i will hesitate to draw and use my weapon? Definitley not. I just enjoy lots of options to choose from :D , as the saying goes, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

C.R.Sam
August 17, 2002, 09:55 AM
If one is confronted with deadly intent and capability...

It can be a big mistake, (If you must stay and repell), to counter with a "less than deadly" mindset.

Whether with empty hand or .44 or anything in between, the objective is to STOP the threat as fast as possible.

First choice...depart.
Plan B....STOP the threat NOW.

Sam

Mike in VA
August 17, 2002, 10:51 AM
When I first came home with a handgun a few years back my wife asked why I didn't 'just learn karate'?

She knows I wrestled in high school, boxed a little in the Army, and have generally acquited my self well when push came to shove, but I don't consider my self as an accomplished street fighter by any stretch.

At the time I was in my late 40's, a bit overweight and out of shape. I explained that it takes a good bit of time and practice to become (and maintain) proficient at any martial art, and I already knew how to shoot (I was on the pistol team in college).

I'm now 54, a little heavier and witha blown-out knee and a soon-to-be fused ankle. Though I'm still pretty strong, have good hand speed and can hit a pretty good lick, I can't run and a career in ballet is definitely out. WTSHTF, Gun-foo will have to do.

LASur5r
August 17, 2002, 02:49 PM
It's just like your American Express Card or insurance....or carrying your back up gun or a folder on you .....extra insurance and/or more options when your life is threatened, right?

For those of you who have "seen the elephant", you know what I mean. Anyone who really feels that you know what it's like to "fight for your life", then you know that there are no rules and the more options that you have to stack the odds in your favor, the better your chances of surviving.

STEVE M
August 18, 2002, 07:52 AM
Not all confrontations are 'fights for your life'. We learn martial

arts for the same reasons cops carry more than guns. Not all

situations require the taking of a life.

shy_man
August 19, 2002, 08:35 AM
....have the will and skills to defend themselves as C.R. Sam said is right. This is the words I would like to hear from someone. Even you are armed to the teeth if you are reluctant to fight and accept the consequences be it you're a winner or a losser then you're defenseless.

Remember, that sometimes an LE, Civilian were victims of a BG and vice versa. Thus we need to defend ourselves not only by guns or clubs but anything we could see to use in our sorroundings. Ball pens, nail cutters, sand and any other sticks could kill also. Preparedness, will and skills are important for self defense.

Just my own opinion.