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Erik
August 13, 2002, 01:20 PM
I was able to put a few rounds through a 12 bore double 'rifle' this weekend.

A beauty, circa 1890s, complete with engraving, original case color hardening, damascus barrels with a deep blackened finish, shiny like new rifled bores, and an original stock with fine line checkering and a bit of figuring.

A black powder load pushed balls out at approximately 1200 fps, per the owner. (I forgot the grain and load. I'll see if the guys I was with remember.) It shot dead on at the 50 yards we were shooting from.

A gentle shove, relatively speaking. Relative to the 8 and 4 bore singles he brought along. (I didn't try those out, so I took his word on it.) Talk about big bores. Wow. I didn't realize they came that large.

I did get to try out a variety of big bores, including some double rifles, but that's another category.

Thanks to the "Colorado High Plains Elephant Hunters" for their time, instruction, loads, and beautiful longarms.

BigG
August 13, 2002, 01:21 PM
I just drooled on my keyboard. :o

huntsman
August 13, 2002, 10:26 PM
Now that sounds like a fun time ;) but what do you call a 12 bore with rifled tubes ? was it made for Africa ? anyway it would be a cool toy.

Mike Irwin
August 13, 2002, 11:06 PM
I did more than drool....


What make was it, Erik?

Holland & Holland? Greener? Westley Richards?

TaxPhd
August 14, 2002, 10:54 AM
huntsman,

Would that be Paradox?

Mike Irwin
August 14, 2002, 11:58 AM
IIRC, the Paradox was Holland and Holland's version of the rifled 12-bore.

I think Westley Richards called theirs the Europa, or something like that.

American Rifleman back in the early 1990s had an article on these guns.

K80Geoff
August 14, 2002, 01:37 PM
Paradox IIRC were shotguns with the end of the tube rifled to fire slugs. Apparently british officers when they were posted to "INJA" were only allowed to take one private long gun. They usually took paradox guns to allow them to hunt Fowl and big game.

There was an article in Double Gun Journal re the paradox. Some only had one tube with the rifling, others had both tubes. Apparently they were able to shoot shot with these guns also.

This september the Vintagers will have their annual shoot at Orvis Sandanona in the Hudson Valley of NY. Only SXS guns allowed. They do have rifle competition, both for "Stalking" and "Stopping" guns.

Stalking guns are calibers used for taking antelope etc. Stopping Guns are for the "Big Five".

Last year they had one blow up:D

I try to go just to walk through the vendors tents, talk about drooling:D

Erik
August 14, 2002, 06:11 PM
I asked around and one of my buddies thought it was a Paradox. (There was a line of doubles on the gun rack, lucky for us, but not for our memories.)

It was bought in Africa, and had apparently been there since at least the the early 20th century.

I'm trying to confirm my info...

BigG
August 15, 2002, 08:55 AM
Back in the Blackpowder days the guns were 12 bore, 8 bore, 4 bore fully rifled guns for large game. Paradox/What cheer? were some of the brand names of the ones with the last few inches of smoothbore rifled.