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Blast
August 10, 2002, 04:23 AM
Is it any good? 12 pellet - max charge, will it kick the smile from your face? How will it do from a 20'' imp cyl?

labgrade
August 10, 2002, 08:39 AM
It'll likely do "good enough" within 15 yards - maybe less.

Only way to be sure is to shoot it at various ranges & count the pellet hits for a certain size area - in your barrel & choke.

dfaugh
August 10, 2002, 08:41 AM
The 3" magnum S&B--15 pellets on 20" Mossberg, cylinder bore, "Special Purpose" with folding stock...Not only will it kick the smile from your face, it'll knock your A$$ into the next county...This is the biggest wack I get from any of my guns, including milsurps w/ metal buttplates...However, It spread out nicely from this gun(18"-24" pattern at about 30'), and (minimal, 'cause it HURTS) testing says it'll make hamburger outa anything gets in its way...Figure a total of 105 .32 caliber projectiles (7 x 15) will handle pretty much any HD scenario, or at least allow me time to retrieve even more firepower

labgrade
August 11, 2002, 12:57 AM
My only point is = you have to shoot it in what you have.

If it patterns to your expected use = you have a dandy load. If it doesn't (likely), you'll have to "exchange your views" a bit towards reality. Seldom have I ever run across a load that meets the expectation of a "00 buck load to kill everything within 50 yards," is all.

Doesn't & will not happen.

Shoot the thing & see what it does for patterns. If it does everything you want within your range (barrel & choke) expectation, I'd buy a case-load.

If it doesn't, I'd try a few others till I got something that lived up to my expectations. Most never find "that Holy Load" in buck-shot 'cause it doesn't exist. There's only the best blend you can have for what you want to do ....

Anybody's got a 50-yard 00 buckshot load that "patterns to beat ll," well, I'm willing to ,1) see it in person & 2) buy 'em a glass of their choice.

I've yet to see it .... (may be quite willing to go this whole bet at 25 yards .... buckshot prettyu much sucks past 20 yards ....

DML
August 11, 2002, 02:21 AM
Labgrade:

Don't bet your shirt on it. There a number of Vang Comped barrels out there that will do amazing things. It's luck of the draw, but some of the Gunsite instructors have VCS modified barrels that shoot pattern so small at 25 yards that I won't write them here for fear of being called a liar. i have talked to reliable people who regularly bowl over coyotes at 50 yards with a VCS barrel and Federal Tactical 00 (H-132 or LE-132). I have personally watched a Banff Park warden shoot at 18X24 sheets of paper at 50 meters with a VCS barrel a Federal Premium 00 and keep all 9 pellets on the paper with 6 well within the outline of a man.

Some of the new shells available will give amazing performance at ranges never thought possible with a shotgun loaded with buckshot. Hornady TAP ammo comes to mind and a company named SHOT had some really neat stuff.

I agree that none of these shells will kill "everything" within 50 yards, but they will do some serious damage.

Smokin Guns
August 11, 2002, 04:05 PM
With the 870 or 590 it will kick you hard at the shoulder, shoot from the hip! The S&B 00 Ammo is sitting at the base of the stock.



http://gallery.alloutdoorschat.com/guncrazy/m590.jpg

Mike Irwin
August 11, 2002, 08:46 PM
I've witnessed a Vangcomp put ALL 9 pellets from a 3" 00 buck load into the chest area of a mansized target at 75 yards.

They can be rather amazing.

I've got quite a bit of the S&B 12-shot 2 3/4" buckshot. It kicks, but it's bearable.

My house ammo is, however, Remington No. 4 buck, but 5 rounds of the S&B ride in a carrier on the buttstock.

Don't shoot from the hip unless you really like missing a lot.

Oleg Volk
August 11, 2002, 09:05 PM
Patterns poorly from some SGs, well from others. Kick isn't bad, a push rather than a shove. Won't fit box magazines designed for 2 3/4" shells.

labgrade
August 11, 2002, 10:16 PM
I'll defer to those who know more than I do about the Van Camps - & stand corrected. Just made me think of the "card guns" which I though an impossibility too .... live & learn.

I do thank you for the correction, guys.

I should have stated that "with a no-VanCamp" shotgun ;) you'd be hard=pressed ... yada. Buck's an outstandig choice for somethings, but I'd dare say that most think it'll do a lot more & further out than it really does - unless ...

Best bet though is to shoot the stuff at various ranges & see what it does. Without that, I'd say you're only guessing.

Bruce626
August 11, 2002, 10:51 PM
I run a low-budget Mossberg 500 pump 18" bbl synthetic everything sidesaddled SG... much to my amazement, my cheap @ss gun loves cheap-@ass ammo, i.e., the Estate SWAT 00 Buck... patterns extremely well, lower recoil, minimal bucks. Sometimes life is good.

Dave R
August 11, 2002, 11:11 PM
I don't like it, because it does not use a shot cup to contain the shot as it goes down your bore. Those lead pellets just rub against your barrel and leave nasty looking lead streaks that are difficult to remove. And based on the size of those lead streaks (in my 870, anyway) the pellets are getting deformed pretty badly. Which probably explains why it doesn't group well in my shotgun.

Your gun might like it, but mine does not.

Bruce626
August 12, 2002, 12:26 AM
Dave R:

One common thread on this forum is how shotguns vary in their performance with ammo X or ammo Y.

My point is simply that one particular gun likes one particular brand of ammo (as discussed widely) and that I'm glad mine doesn't insist on the world's most expensive ammo.

The rest of your comment strikes me as more of a cleaning problem than a shooting problem, given that mine puts all of the pellets about where they should go.

Mike Irwin
August 12, 2002, 10:11 AM
Labgrade,

Van Camps is a frozen fish company. I don't think you'd get very good patterns shooting smelts out of your 12 gauge. :D

labgrade
August 12, 2002, 12:06 PM
Wouldn't the little ones act like those flechette rounds ...:D

Still have to pattern though.

dfaugh
August 12, 2002, 03:03 PM
I don't WANT tight patterns with a HD shotgun...IMO, one of the advantages of the shotgun, (and the S&B with no shot cup) is that it spreads out, thereby lessening my need to aim accurately under stress...Figure even 2 or 3 00 pellets in a BG is sumthin'...
Am I stupid, or what? Missing something?

Mike Irwin
August 12, 2002, 03:16 PM
"Am I missing something"

Yeah, at standard household ranges the shot pattern isn't going to spread much at all.

You're going to need to be on target.

Bruce626
August 12, 2002, 04:00 PM
One of the advertised features of the Federal Personal Defense shotshell is that it is specifically designed to spread out more quickly.

When I patterned this load in my cylinder bore 18.5 in bbl M500, I did an un-scientific comparison with regular birdshot, but I did not have an exactly "similar" load in terms of shot size. The Federal PD is a #2 birdshot reduced recoil load and it did appear to spread a couple of inches wider than the #7.5 birdshot (target load) did at about 20 feet.

I didn't try anything closer to the target, but at some point they'd both just punch a fist-sized hole in the paper.

Al Thompson
August 12, 2002, 04:58 PM
Bruce, here's some data from one of my tests "upclose and personal"..


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1082197#post1082197

dfaugh
August 14, 2002, 07:46 AM
Yeah, but my HD situation is a bit different...Very large house, sveral hundre feet to next houses...and, without alot of explanation, I could, righteously, be engaging targets out to 75 yards...I know that at really short ranges, anything coming out of a shotgun is gonna act like one big slug, and I need to be on target (but hell, with those magnum S&B rounds the muzzle blast could be lethal!)...But because I could easily be engaging at much longer distances, I'd rather have a nice "spread" to potentially increase my "hit ratio"...hence the 00 buck which will still be carrying more energy than something lighter