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Melos
July 5, 2002, 04:19 PM
I'm interested in buying a lightweight, pump action .410.

Purpose: small varmint control and introducing grandchildren (including females) to shotguns.

Please recommend makes & models of .410s for me to consider.

Ideally, I'd like one similar enough to my 12 and 20 gauge 870s that practice with the .410 would reinforce practice with the 870s.

Thanks,

Melos

Andrew Wyatt
July 5, 2002, 04:38 PM
a .410 is a shotgun for experts, as ti throws a miniscule shot charge.

a 20 gauge with light loads would be a good starter gun for a child. (that's what i started with) a single shot would probably be best for that.


as for a pump 410, mossberg makes them.

C.R.Sam
July 5, 2002, 06:08 PM
I'll go with a 20
IF
Not a light gun
Light loads
Good fit.

Light 20s are often harder kicken than 12s with light loads.

Sam

K80Geoff
July 5, 2002, 06:38 PM
Get a 28 GA. Ammo costs about the same as 410. Gun throws usable patterns, has miniscule recoil.

Remington makes them in the 870 and 1100 models. Other makers too.

410 is an abomination:p

ACP230
July 5, 2002, 06:52 PM
I was out shooting a single shot .410 with my sons last weekend. None of us are expert shotgunners and I hadn't fired the gun for a year or so. Still I was able to break a bunch of hand thrown clays with it. My oldest son shattered one in the air on his second try. That may have been his second shot ever from the gun. I know he hasn't shot it much. A .410 can work if you respect its limitations.

Mike Irwin
July 5, 2002, 07:41 PM
If you want to go truly classic, go with a Winchester 42. No better, or more beautiful, pump .410 has ever been made.

But, I also suggest that you go with either a 20 or 28. MUCH heavier shot charge than the .410, yet the recoil is not bad at all. You just have to choose your training loads.

Biggest problem with the 28, though, is the lack of shells for it.

mikey357
July 5, 2002, 07:56 PM
In the .410 chambering, there are two current-production pump guns worth considering...the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500...both have their advantages and disadvantages...you pays your money and you takes your chances....mikey357

Dave McC
July 6, 2002, 04:21 AM
I doubt there's a perfect answer to this query, let's examine the mission and then pick....

Youngsters and pixies need lighter shotguns, but the lighter the shotgun, the greater the kick, all else equal.

Lighter shotguns also lack the inertia to keep the swing going, and that's one of the big faults of shooting, stopping the swing.No hits, no enthusiasm.

Heavier(not heavy) shotguns are more fatiguing, use generally harder kicking loads, are easier to keep swinging, and soak up kick to some degree.

For rookies, the heaviest shotgun they can handle and the lightest load you can find may be the ticket.

Son's little NEF 12 gauge and 3/4 oz load are one approach to this, a 410 pump(heavier than the little singles) is another, and a 870 20 gauge YE with low recoil, low noise loads yet another.

And while some laud the gas autos for low kick, none are lightweight.

Of course, fit is crucial.

For really small tyros, I suggest a single bbl and very light load, or just waiting a year or two before starting them on shotguns.

Other rookies may benefit more from using a larger bore shotgun, and working up from light loads to heaviest.

HTH....

Melos
July 6, 2002, 05:32 AM
I doubt there's a perfect answer to this query
That's for sure.

My 870s (20 & 12) are quite heavy (nearly 9 pounds) with HD add-ons. My 12 gauge actually weighs less than my 20 gauge. I hanker for a lighter gun just to play with, as much for myself as for the grandchildren. I don't want another 20 - I've been through the kick problem with the one I have now. It no longer kicks, but it's too heavy to enjoy playing with for very long (I'm neither physically strong nor large in size).

And I just have an itch to buy another shotgun. I have a gunsafe with room for three shotguns and four revolvers. I have 2 shotguns and five revolvers, one of which (a .22 S&W AirLite Kit Gun) I'm disenchanted with. So I'm wanting to trade the unloved S&W AirLite for a new shotgun.

One of the few regrets I have is having sold a Remington semi-automatic .410 (1100?) back in the 1980's. I really enjoyed shooting that gun - especially slugs.

Get a 28 GA.
That's an idea I hadn't thought of.

So now I'm wondering, 28 or 410? Still pondering....

Thanks for the replies, which are helpful. It's always good to be able to discuss difficult questions with people who have experience and sound judgment.

Melos

K80Geoff
July 6, 2002, 06:58 AM
Remingtons 1100 in 28 ga is one of the few Autos I would consider owning. The only downside is that Remington only puts a 25" barrel on the gun.

Franchi also makes a fine 28 ga auto. Popular amongst hunters for it's lightweight.

Years ago Browning imported a Model 12 in 28 ga, they still show up but are pricey.

If you like O/Us, Beretta makes the 686 in 28 ga. It is built on a 20 ga frame but handles nicely and is a favorite with Sporting Clays shooters.

Plenty of high dollar choices. Lots of O/U and SXS guns out there.

Great gauge to teach youngsters and women, I do not understand why the major manufacturers haven't caught on to this.

Mr Irwin, 28 ga ammo is available, you just have to look for it. Try some of the internet sources . Most T & S ranges stock 28, although they aren't cheap. 28 costs the same as 410 and you get more for the money. Including the hulls which you can often sell if you do not reload.

Helps stretch the reloading dollar if you are so inclined.

Melos
July 6, 2002, 07:29 AM
Remingtons 1100 in 28 ga is one of the few Autos I would consider owning
Now that's a recommendation that resonants :). I suppose it must be the closest I may get to approximating my pleasure with the Remington 1100 .410 in the 1980's.

Or maybe:

Franchi also makes a fine 28 ga auto. Popular amongst hunters for it's lightweight.
Thanks!

Melos

Mike Irwin
July 6, 2002, 10:19 PM
K80,

I know shells and loads are available for it.

But it's not something you're going to be able to find at Sids' Suds & Shells or even generally your better sporting goods shops.

Like the .410, the 28 is a specialty gun, but it's a lot less common of a specialty gun.

I'm hoping that changes, as I have a real hankering for a 28.

Dave McC
July 7, 2002, 04:41 AM
Mike, it is changing. A half dozen folks I know have those Red Label 28s, I've seen some older Remington Skeet autos resurrected as SC and bird guns, and Dick's, the aptly named chain store, is carrying the 28 ga Express.

Lots of folks with 8 lb 12s are finding the 28 a joy to carry and shoot.

Riphalman
July 7, 2002, 07:48 AM
We seem to be getting off track here. If you're wanting a solid and reliable pump in .410, the Mossberg is an excellent choice. In my opinion, you get the most for your money in a solid, no-frills, utilitarian gun. Great for hunting, pest control and play.

K80Geoff
July 7, 2002, 04:21 PM
Occasionally I have seen 28 ga Express 870's in Sports Authority locally.

The more people buying and shooting 28's the better. Ammo manufacturers will produce based on demand, and maybe the price will come down to 20 ga levels.

Nicest pump I have seen was a Japanese made Model 12. Beautiful gun with great wood, but cost as much as an auto. No longer made unfortunately. Kick myself for not grabbing it.

I would bet that Beretta will make the 391 in 28 soon. Probably in 410 eventually also.

Melos
July 8, 2002, 12:46 PM
Mike Erwin,

If you want to go truly classic, go with a Winchester 42.
How can I find a Winchester 42? It's not a current production model, is it?

Melos

MarineTech
July 8, 2002, 01:06 PM
If you're dead set on a .410, you might want to consider the new Winchester 9410 lever action. My uncle keeps one on his tractor for "critter" control and they're great shooters. It's not a pump action, but they're darn fine guns.

K80Geoff
July 8, 2002, 01:20 PM
The Winchester model 42 is a classic and, like it's contemporary the Model 12, commands a premium on the used gun market. Good luck finding one!

C'mon, you really want a 28:cool:

Melos
July 8, 2002, 01:30 PM
C'mon, you really want a 28

O.K. How about a Remington 870 Wingmaster 28? Same manual of arms as my 12 and 20 gauge 870s, which optimizes consistency in training for emergencies.

AmericaFirst
July 8, 2002, 02:08 PM
One of the best memories I have is shooting clays with a cheapo single shot .410 shotgun. I don't know if a pump action could compare to that old H&R LOL.

Dave McC
July 8, 2002, 03:09 PM
I'd go with the 870 IF I HAD to have a 410. Same controls as someone said, same utter dependability and longevity.

A friend has one, I oughta borrow it for a T&E.

So many shotguns, so little time.....

Clemson
July 9, 2002, 08:37 AM
Without getting into the ins and outs of .410 vs. 28 ga vs 20 ga, etc., I have a guncase full of 20's and 12's. About a year ago I bought a used 870 Wingmaster in .410. I find that I have had more fun in the past year shooting that .410 than I ever thought I would. I have shot skeet (high round so far is a 23), Sporting clays (did about 60% on that course), doves (you give up 10-15 yards to a 20 gauge, but if you pick your shots you can put 'em in the freezer), and squirrels (no misses so far). The little thing is a delight to carry and just plain fun to shoot. I use 2 1/2 inch shells for all the target shooting and use 3 inch shells on doves.

I can smoke targets better with a bigger gun, but the fun factor is hard to define. There is something satisfying about going to a station on the clays range and smoking 10 for 10 on report doubles and true doubles with a little .410 PUMP in front of 12-15 shooters toting 12 gauge O/U's with 32 inch barrels. Most of them aren't used to seeing a pump gun on the clays range -- much less an itty bitty one.:D

Clemson