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View Full Version : No More 8+1??? Legal Capacity for Pump Shotguns?


Beyond_Visual_Range
June 26, 2002, 06:16 PM
I tried to search the topic but it wouldnt' let me search for "8+1" or something like that. Anyhow, I went to Wal-Mart to see if they have any Mossberg 500 Persuader, but the only one they had was 6+1 shot. Is there a law that limits the capacity for pumps?

Rob62
June 26, 2002, 06:33 PM
There is no federal regulation that effects pump shot guns as to the number of rounds they may hold.

The 1994 AW ban only effected semi auto rifles and semi auto shotguns, in the context of long gun discussions. Local or state laws may vary.

Rob

bastiat
June 26, 2002, 07:20 PM
mossy makes 8+1 shotguns, they are listed on their web site.

9mmMike
June 26, 2002, 07:34 PM
Not only that but if you can get those silly "mini shells" to feed in your gun, you can get like 15 rounds in there! Legally.
Mike

C.R.Sam
June 26, 2002, 08:57 PM
The Mini shells work in some and not in others. Definately want to wring em out thouroughly before trusting a gun with them.

I got real lucky with a Higgens pump....feeds em like clockwork from any position except upside down......it doesn't feed anything from upside down position so no real loss.

Sam

KSFreeman
June 26, 2002, 09:07 PM
Something to keep in mind before purchasing the gamey mag tubes: How much can you hold out in front of you?

Since you may hold the weapon a heck of a lot more than shoot it, it WILL get heavy. Standard mag tubes are more likely to keep functioning and not as heavy (but I am a weenie office type and have never been a member of ST4 unlike everyone else in my gun club).

Ledbetter
June 26, 2002, 09:14 PM
of (my composite image of) C.R. Sam rolling along the ground firing his Higgens from every position but upside down? "One o'clock. Check. Two o'clock. Check . . . . ) ;)

oberkommando
June 26, 2002, 10:57 PM
The 94 AW Ban IIRC Was limited to mag extention or pistol grip on semi autos only. I keep the mag ext on mine and can load max 9 shots, 7+1+(1) In my benelli. Reliability has been great.

CMichael
June 27, 2002, 09:21 AM
The Persudader with the extended mag which is what I have is 7+1

Chang
June 27, 2002, 01:19 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the 10-round magazine limit still applies, even though it is a fixed tube magazine and the gun is pump-action. The only exempted magazine is a tube magazine for a .22-caliber rimfire cartridge. I have no idea why you'd want to have more than 10-round capacity in a tube magazine pump shotgun though.

Dave McC
June 27, 2002, 02:48 PM
Anyone here ever handle or shoot one of those 1100s with 28" bbls and a 10 shot extended mag?

Bruce Buck's analogy of carrying a pig on a snowshovel applies.

In fact, anything over 2 or 3 round extensions get fatiguing after a few fast COFs.

I like extensions, have them on my two "Serious" shotguns, but one's a 2 and one a 3 shot extension.

9mmMike
June 27, 2002, 05:40 PM
Chang,
I'd like to see where you got that law.
The mag limit is a mag limit. It is not a weapon limit. I can put a 17 round mag in my Glock 26 even though it never came with anything larger than a 10 round mag from the factory.
Perhaps it is different for fixed magazines or long guns but I know that pumpguns are not included in this.
If there is a 10+1 limit on pump shotguns, I'd sure like to read about it. That would mean that as soon as Aguila (or whoever) started sending in the mini shells, all of our SG's with any extension longer than +2 would be illegal. Illegal guns are illegal whether they're loaded or not.
It would be quite a bummer if suddenly millions (is that an exaggeration?) of 500, 590's, 1300's & 870's suddenly became illegal because of a silly little shell that does not even function reliably in a large majority of those guns.
I hope they ever invent a half-pint .30-.30 round. There would suddenly be a glut of "assault" 336's and 94's all of a sudden.
Mike

Chang
June 28, 2002, 01:37 AM
The term "large capacity ammunition feeding device" --

(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but

(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

A fixed magazine is still considered an ammunition feeding device. You can put 17-round magazines in your Glock because the 17-round magazine is pre-ban and exempt from being a "large capacity ammunition feeding device." Notice how attached tubular devices are considered ammunition feeding devices in (B) but exempt if it operates with .22 rimfire.

922(w)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.

In the case of the shotguns, I doubt they would ever rule that standard 8 shot tubes are "high capacity" because someone can stuff mini-shells in them, shells which the weapon is not designed or chambered for. Just like I'll bet someone could somehow figure out a way to stuff 30 rounds of .22LR in a post-ban 10 round AK magazine.

kotengu
June 28, 2002, 07:46 PM
Who needs a big magazine?????

buzz_knox
June 28, 2002, 07:58 PM
Chang's right. All post-ban magazines (fixed or otherwise) are restricted to 10 rounds or less regardless of action type. The only exemption is for .22LR mags.

jack_the_sailor
June 28, 2002, 10:02 PM
I have a Remington 870 Express Magnum. It has a plug on the end so an extended tube can't be put on. Why?

Chang
June 29, 2002, 01:18 AM
Jack, I have a Remington Express as well. It comes from the factory shipped with a green stick plug inside the magazine spring. This is to limit the capacity to 2+1 for hunting. The gun itself holds 4+1 if you pull out the green plug.

Or maybe you are talking about the rectangular stakes/dimples stamped (?) into the end of the magazine tube. Remington decided on the later models that they would add a keyable safety and then changed the magazine tube design to take a spring retainer that turned to lock into the dimples to prevent the spring and spring retainer from flying out when you unscrewed the magazine cap. This design also was probably also to prevent attaching the magazine extenders, to be a little bit more politically correct.

I ended up modifying my tube and attached a Tac-Star extension anyway. It works great. Heres what I used and how I did it:

Drill (you'll need a hand drill and a drill press probably, though you can probably get by with just a hand drill)
7/64" drill bit
small round chainsaw file (will be about 6" long, 5/32" diameter)
220-grit or so fine sanding mandrel (1/2" diameter maybe? Just as long as it fits inside the tube)

Unscrew your cap, take out your spring, spring retainer, and follower. Remove your pump/action bars, and the bolt from your gun. Drill carefully through the dimples on both side (do one side, then flip it over and do the other side). Then clean up with the chainsaw file and remove whatever is left of the dimple. If you don't do a good job here, your shells will jam. Then lightly polish the inside with the sanding mandrel to remove the machining and filing burrs. After that, you can go ahead and use an extended magazine spring and screw on a magazine extender to replace your magazine cap.

Buzz, careful though, not all .22 LR magazines are exempt from 10 rounds if post-ban. Only fixed tube magazines. But I doubt anyone makes a high capacity law enforcement only post-ban .22LR magazine anyway, since they don't have very much military or LE value.