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Betty
June 11, 2002, 09:51 AM
A former coworker of mine is living in Florida. She was walking her little dog in a golf course alone when about three coyotes come out from the trees and start harrassing her. It's starting to get dark outside.

Maybe they're curious, or maybe they want to attack. They kept coming closer and closer, circling around, terrifying her. She picks up a stick and either she clobbers one with it or she threw it at him and hit him (this is told by another coworker) and then she and her dog ran away back to her car. Luckily the coyotes weren't that determined, and they didn't follow.

I wouldn't be wandering around like that by myself without a firearm! The braver these coyotes get, the more likely they'll take a nip out of a person or maul a litle kid.

jmlv
June 11, 2002, 10:07 AM
After all she was walking "dinner" as far as they were concerned.
seriously I have talked with folks who live where these animals live in abundence. Small dogs and cats are taken often and never seen again. There have been instances of childern dissapearing as well. See recent Book on mankillers.

pdmoderator
June 11, 2002, 10:32 AM
Oddly enough, my wife and I saw a coyote in central NJ for the first time last weekend.

The scoop seems to be that if you make a loud noise and act aggressive, they'll run off. No need to shoot 'em and risk all that goes along with discharging a firearm on a golf course. (Personally, I'd just call Joyce Carol Oates and let her emote the damn thing to death. :D )

Other than that, the same precautions that you'd take with other wildlife apply.

- pdmoderator

CWL
June 11, 2002, 10:38 AM
Gators take their share of pets right "off the leash" as well.

Don't try walking Fluffy too close to water in areas inhabited by gators. They won't scare as easily as coyotes.

Had a run-in while playing golf in SC on the 13th hole. Big gator in the water trying to look like a log near where my shot landed.
I didn't bother to play that ball.

hitnthexring
June 11, 2002, 12:54 PM
How exciting to live in Florida. In Ca, there are coyotes, but no gators.

Dave R
June 11, 2002, 05:27 PM
OC/pepper spray would prolly work much better on coyotes than on bear...

A few whiffs, and they may get the message that humans=bad.

Hemicuda
June 11, 2002, 06:07 PM
When I bought my house, there was NO small game around... and I mean NONE...

first night in the place, I found out why... the "symphony" of Coyote calls was almost deafening...

then upon arriving home later that week, after dark, I noticed they'd stand in the MOWED part of the yard and look at the headlights and NOT run...

between me and a neighbor, we shot over 30 of them iin the next year...

now - small game is abundant... (step on the deck in the early am, and 10 rabbits come scurrying from underneath...

in Coyote country, ALWAYS be armed... shoot on site, and be happy!

KSFreeman
June 11, 2002, 07:48 PM
Does your friend look like a roadrunner?

/s/ Wil E. Coyote, Suuupra Genius

yorec
June 11, 2002, 11:50 PM
An adult walking a dog gets accosted by coyotes? My first reaction is to doubt the veracity of the story, doesn't sound like coyote behaviour I'm familiar with. But then again, I live out in the wide west and coyotes wouldn't be caught dead in town - especially since it means that is exactly what will happen if they are. I realize that back east coyotes are reinventing thier range by taking over city hunting grounds and living in urban dens. Guess that the list of prey animals is gonna change too, along with the methods of taking it...

Tell her to get a bigger dog, lol!

Skunkabilly
June 12, 2002, 01:19 AM
Coyote Defense:

http://www.skunkabilly.com/gunstuff/skunk_3_small.jpg

pdmoderator
June 12, 2002, 06:58 AM
http://www.broughtonfox.free-online.co.uk/images/roadrunner1.jpg

Strangely, Wyle E. doesn't seem to go in for firearms too much. Dynamite, rockets, anvils, hell yes...

- pdmoderator

_____________________
Acme products were anything but the acme of their manufacture. -- Chuck Jones

444
June 12, 2002, 07:12 AM
I do live in an area where coyotes are in abundance and there are two main things that you need to be concerned about with coyotes; and guns are useless against them.
#1) make sure that you are not in an area where a safe can be dropped on you such as an overhanging cliff. If a safe is dropped on you, putting up an umbrella for protection is usually ineffective.
#2) make sure that you are not standing in front of a rock face where a picture of a tunnel could be drawn. Normally, after the tunnel picture is drawn, you will be immediately run over by a train.
Coyotes can prove dangerous in other ways too numerous to mention. See the latest ACME catalog for ideas of the what threats await you.

qkrthnu
June 12, 2002, 09:07 AM
Tell your co-worker to get & use some OC spray.

No need to go shooting off multiple rounds (multiple coyotes) off in a public place at some dogs. That's just asking for trouble.

Plus I have a lot more reservations about killing a hungry/curious animal than I do a BG. I wouldn't want to resort to shooting unless they're obviously rabid or somthing.

I saw a documentary on Polar bears where this guy who was doing it lived up in Alaska at some place that was known for polar bear activity, he refused to take a gun??? but he did have some OC spray. One of the bears, what he describe as the largest male he'd seen up there got a little too close for comfort and he sprayed it. Sent the 1000lb+ bear RUNNING for the ocean. So I'm sure it would work wonders on a little coyote. And it would more than likely satisfy any curiosity they might have in the future.

Greybeard
June 12, 2002, 09:09 AM
Like Yorec, I too am from "out west" and felt lucky to get within 100 yards of a coyote. I scoffed at them a few years ago when a suburban police department brought some special officers out to our range to get tuned up with a .410 shotgun and a scoped tranquilizer-dart rifle. I laughed and made the comment "You guys are not going to be able to get close enough to take coyotes with THOSE THINGS!".

But, I was wrong. Many of the coyotes have become so "city-fied" that they boldly go on the prowl for "Fluffy" in broad daylight. I understand that one of the officers has been allowed to use a "real varmit gun" (.22 Hornet I think) in some areas on the fringes, but they have taken coyotes with the .410 (3 to 5 pellets of buckshot) and dart gun as well ...

Many surburbanites may (reluctantly) recognize that humans taking over vast amounts of the predators' habitat limits their options. What most suburbanites do not know though, is the impact that CATS (BOTH house and feral) have on the small wildlife population. Cats, also being natural-born hunters, can wreck havoc on nature's balance of small animals. This is sometimes first recognized (or intentionally NOT recognized) by a dramatic reduction or disappearance of song birds.

"Fluffy" of course will also prey on mice, lizzards, small rabbits, etc. - many of the same critters that Mr. & Mrs. Coyote USED TO HAVE in more abundance for themselves and their offspring. So ... when faced with such massive reductions in their habitat (technical definition: the arragement of food, cover, water and space), what can we expect a "survivor" like the coyote to eat??? Except FluffY !!! :rolleyes:

Hemicuda
June 12, 2002, 09:14 AM
there's our answer... feed the housecats to the coyotes, and end 2 problems at once! :D

Betty
June 12, 2002, 09:18 AM
I've always wished that Wiley E. Coyote would nab that stupid roadrunner, just to shut that "Beep Beep" up. :p

I've never seen a coyote here in TN, but when I lived in Columbia, TN I could hear them howl so close by I swore they were right outside the window.

Speaking of human encroachment, I think it's in northern Kali where pumas are starting to gobble up joggers?

KSFreeman
June 12, 2002, 10:09 AM
I thought joggers wore Pumas, not the other way around. I'm a New Balance kind of guy. They keep their grip on the treadmill as I am straining to view the young & nubile in the gym mirrors.

No experience with coyotes or mountain lions as we clever Northerns killed our predators off. I am told that there are coyotes out where Hayzeus left his sandals around here, but have never seen them (but they don't let me leave the concrete much).

Yesterday I asked my secretary (farm girl from the county north of me) and she said that her husband baits them and shoots them with .222. She has a hat made of a couple of "black coyotes".:confused: She had never seen a live coyote up close as they live in fear of humans where she is.

The size they are I would imagine a pistol up close would be fine. I am uncertain of the impact on OC on animals, may only make them madder? I'd call my buddy in vet science at Purdue but he's out in the hairy-chested West. I'll let you know when he returns.

buzz_knox
June 12, 2002, 10:31 AM
I've believe seen coyotes in East TN. As stated above, they are getting bolder and bolder, adapting to city/suburban life.

Pepper spray is a good initial line of defense against them, if you have a spray that can reach out several yards. But remember that they are quicker than humans, so the 21 feet in 1.5 seconds rule is out the window. If they even act aggressive, douse them. If they advance prior to or after dousing, terminate them.

Skunkabilly
June 12, 2002, 10:40 AM
I've believe seen coyotes in East TN. As stated above, they are getting bolder and bolder, adapting to city/suburban life.

Great...wild dogs listening to smooth jazz and driving SUVs? ;) They haven't gone that far, not even down in ritzy Bel Air...

Rickmeister
June 12, 2002, 11:22 AM
Only two things come to mind when wild coyotes act like that:

1) Starvation
2) Rabies

I think it is safe to assume that they were not rabid, as rabid animals have expugned all natural fear and nothing is a challenge.

They see the bigger foe as a bigger target, not a bigger threat. They come at you regardless of your size.

And they never, ever give up. The virus gnawing at their brain compels them to commit themselves entirely to the mission of transmission; the plan being to spread the disease as widely and quickly as possibly, even at the expense of the host.

Fear, you see, would only be a hindrance to that goal, and thus has no place in the diabolical scheme.

Instead, they were probably sizing up your acquaintance...as a desperate meal...before they backed off.

I would suggest she carry a Snickers bar with her at all times---you know: just in case. Or maybe a voucher for a free meal for three at Denny's? :D

KSFreeman
June 12, 2002, 12:18 PM
Skunk, how can I tell if my coyotes are yuppie suburbanites?

I am thinking:
1. Drives mini-van;
2. you see the coyote at the mall;
3. you see the coyote at soccer games on Saturday;
4. you hear the coyote talking about his lawn (darn clover and crabgrass);
5. the female coyote tells her kids (or is it kits?) to "get in the car right this minute";
6. the coyote is wearing a suit and talking on the cell phone.

Any other signs would be appreciated!

mdlowry
June 12, 2002, 06:59 PM
7. you hear the coyote whinning about the eviiiil gun owners.

hagar
June 13, 2002, 12:58 AM
I hunt coyotes with a varmint call. While I respect their cunning and find them a worthwhile adversary, I kill them every chance I get. They are a menace to other wildlife as well as domestic pets, and occasionally little children. We have had numerous cases here in AZ of coyotes attacking children, in one case the coyote even went into a house to bite a child.

Mannlicher
June 14, 2002, 09:08 PM
yorec,

There is a huge difference between your country coy dogs, and the ones we have here in Florida. Here, they are smarter, harder to hunt, bigger, and a helluva lot meaner.

Greybeard
June 15, 2002, 06:28 AM
Who was it said "It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!" ?

It seems that whether east or west, instinctive fighting or fleeing the coy dogs are quite good at SURVIVAL!

M1911
June 17, 2002, 03:41 PM
Greybeard said:

Many surburbanites may (reluctantly) recognize that humans taking over vast amounts of the predators' habitat limits their options. What most suburbanites do not know though, is the impact that CATS (BOTH house and feral) have on the small wildlife population. Cats, also being natural-born hunters, can wreck havoc on nature's balance of small animals. This is sometimes first recognized (or intentionally NOT recognized) by a dramatic reduction or disappearance of song birds.

I've had the privilege of serving cats for most of my life. Some of them have been outside cats. One, that we just lost to kidney failure a few years ago, was a terrific huntress. In her five years with us (we adopted her as an adult), she may have gotten one bird (we found a bluejay carcass once). She got tons of chipmunks, mice, and voles, many of which she deposited at my wife's feet. Sometimes they were even dead by then -- I guess she was trying to teach us how to hunt.

Since her demise, we've had to start using various methods to poison, trap, and/or shoot the varmints that she used to control. Her brother is getting elderly and has mostly retired from hunting and her replacement was declawed by her former slaves and thus is an indoor cat.

Decimating songbirds? Only in their little kitty dreams.

Regarding Eastern coyotes, yup they certainly are bold. A few years ago, I was driving home one summer evening, just about dusk, through Wellesley, MA. This is a leafy suburb about 15 miles west of downtown Boston. I was driving down a two-lane road with houses on either side when I spotted the coyote in my lane. I slowed down and stopped about a car length from the coyote. The coyote stared at me for a bit, then sauntered across the road to the shoulder, where he stopped and stared at me.

Around here, the coyotes have killed a number of housecats and dogs. They've even attacked fairly large dogs (golden retriever). A couple years ago, on Cape Cod, a coyote bit a small child. No, the coyote did not have rabies.

I agree with the suggestion of OC spray for your friend. While I'd love to shoot the buggers, the local gendarmes would take a dim view of that.

M1911

LawDog
June 17, 2002, 04:41 PM
I don't know about the rest of the country, but out in West Texas and here in North Texas the yodel dogs can be pretty much a pain-in-the-butt. OC spray works on Uncle Coyote only because it startles him -- prairie pooches apparently lack the ability to taste oleoresins -- and once he's been sprayed a time or two he just shrugs it off.

Yodel dogs are also a bit smarter than most of humanity. If he's got a choice between running around to find a rabbit, then running his butt off to catch said bunny, or sauntering over to the nearest suburban developement and picking off a purse poodle or table tabby at a lope, well ol' canis latrans isn't going to waste any more energy than is necessary.

If your friend has seen one yodel dog, it's a lead pipe cinch that there are two to eight more coyotes in the area -- a permanently bonded pair and their older offspring.

The sure way to get rid of a pack of coyotes is to kill one of the bonded couple (the 'alpha pair'). If Mr. Coyote comes a cropper, the widow Coyote and her chilluns will generally pull up their stakes and move to safer country.

Unfortunately, this usually means that a newly-wedded couple will discover the prime, available, just-abandoned hunting territory, move in and begin raising young 'uns.

LawDog