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PKN
November 3, 2000, 01:42 PM
I've been considering a shotgun to shoot in IPSC shotgun matches(Beretta 1201 is running in the forefront right now). However I will admit ignorance about tactical shotguns, using them more for clays than anything else. How much faster would a 1201 or 1100 be than an 870? I could do a lot more to an 870 for comparable money. Should I stick with an auto or can a pump be made comparably fast?

DVCBILL
November 3, 2000, 06:31 PM
If you are serious about winning you need an auto. The Remington 11/87 and Benellis are the most popular.It would be best too check them both out and see what is best for you.

Dave McC
November 4, 2000, 07:04 AM
I'll probably get someone mad at me about this, but....

Assuming that a HD shotgun is part of your home insurance plan, use that.

I quit shooting IPSC long ago, the day I first saw someone win a match with a handgun I wouldn't carry on the street. While IPSC matches can be fun, they bear the same relationship to defense medieval jousting did to medieval warfare.IOW, it can get you killed in real world situations.

So, if you want to get better with your WIHTF shotgun, go ahead and shoot some IPSC, trap,Clays or other artificial game.Have fun, ignore the scores, and enjoy while your proficiency improves.

OTOH, if all it is is a game,and you like competition, get a more specialized shotgun, and accept the fact that it's just a game. While no Semi auto maven, I'd go with the 11-87,to the others mentioned also seem to be OK.

I'll probably do an informal "Serious" shotgun match or two over the winter.That's in addition to slug hunting deer, goose hunting, vermin control, some clays, and maybe some trap. I'm not that keen a competitor, and I'll use 870s. Nobody there will greatly outpoint me, and nobody will have more fun.

PKN
November 4, 2000, 06:31 PM
Dave,

Thanks for the oppinons. The shotgun is not an HD gun, I'm only 17. Right now I'm enjoying IPSC as what it is, a game. I realize this game has close to zero bearing on the street, so like I said I'm enjoying it, and hoping maybe there's some slim chance it will lead to something bigger(yeah right...). What do you think of the Benelli Practical?

Dave McC
November 5, 2000, 10:39 AM
You're very welcome, PKN. I've no direct experience with any Benellis, tho folks whose opinions I respect regard them highly. It's probably a great shotgun. However...

Your youth and possibly limited resources suggest this course to me. There's lots of good, used 870s out there, at reasonable prices. For what I'd expect to pay for that Benelli,a good 870 with a limited amount of addons and mods, plenty of ammo, and some lessons from a qualified instructor can be had.Taht will get you started w/o bad habits, a big plus. It took me 20 years to get over some of mine.

The 870s a good, reliable weapon that's the industry standard. And, unless you really abuse it, it will hold its value and bring as much if/when you sell it as when you bought it.

Later on when finances improve and you still want a Loudenboomer SP magnum, you can sell up or keep the 870 for some other purpose. By that time, you should have a good grasp of the basics and know better than now just what works for you.

And a warning, for some of us shotguns are more addictive than heroin(G)...

DVCBILL
November 5, 2000, 06:50 PM
If $ are the problem you can find a good 26" Remington Special Purpose 11/87 for about half the cost of the Benelli.The model Benelli you mention seems too long and heavy for me. I have a 24" model and it handles great.Don't handicap yourself from the start with a pump.It isn't rocket science to learn how to hit steel targets with one of these guns.You will gain more in learning how to do fast reloads and move correctly through the courses of fire than just plain shooting(you still have to hit the targets) in a shotgun match.Good Luck

Robe
November 6, 2000, 11:08 AM
PKN- I've been silent on this board for a while because of a lack of acceptance for the IPSC/competition type of issues and discussions, but I wanted to respond to your question here because I did not see an email address for you. You are seeking advice for a IPSC competition shotgun... not home defense. A pump shotgun in competition will slow you way down. A stock 870 will cost you time as well because it hard to stay smooth and on target while even shooting on the move because the recoil will throw your site picture off. I have two 870's, two 1187's, and 2 Benelli M1's. One of each is stock. The other is modified in some way and I use it as an experimental platform to test different mods for comparison. The best for IPSC match would definitely be an auto. Benellis have a certain "coolnes" factor, but I'll have to admit an 1187 would be my first choice. The manual of arms for the Benelli M1 can be complex and this model requires much, much practice and rehearsal to become good and fast with it. They are fine when everything works, but I've seen people just give up in a match when they get any kind of malfunction in a Benelli M1 because they get flustered. The M1 can also be more ammo sensitive because it is inertia or recoil operated. Again, the M1 requires practice with the same ammo you intend to compete with. The 1187 is less expensive,has a simpler manual of arms, and has a gas operated recoil system which will give you more flexibility to use various types of ammo. Much easier to get started in IPSC with a used 1187. As you gain experience and knowledge, you could then transition to a Benelli if you think it may have some advantage for you over the 1187. That special IPSC version of the Benelli you asked about is a fine gun, but not for everyone. It is a specialized version that you really need to "try before you buy" and see if you like it. Which brings up another good point. Try really hard to find someone/somewhere that will allow you to try a Benelli M1 and an 1187 and even an 870. The hands on experience will quickly help you decide which model will suit you best.
Prices? I see new 1187s here locally for $600. New Benelli M1s for about $850. I have only seen one Benelli IPSC new and it was $1,150 or $1,200.. I think you could find a used 1187 for around $400 to $450 and then spend a little extra for some special parts like and extended mag tube if you want more rounds.

[This message has been edited by Robe (edited November 06, 2000).]

BigG
November 6, 2000, 02:53 PM
If you learn how to work a pump properly, you probably wouldn't be at a disadvantage to an auto. The pump you are actually pulling the gun back down on target out of recoil. You are on the right track with an 870.

I have a 1201 FP and it is also a fine shotgun.



------------------
o I raised my hand to eye level, like pointing a finger, and fired. Wild Bill Hickok

Jeff, CA
November 6, 2000, 03:59 PM
17 and worried about which shotgun to pick? When I was 17 I couldn't afford rocks to throw. :)

wakal
November 8, 2000, 09:40 PM
Not so good for prone, I think, but otherwise entertaining...

http://www.geocities.com/lwakal/images/guns/usas_12_p2.jpg

MrPink
November 9, 2000, 12:58 PM
I own a few Benellis and I really like them. Yeah, their manual of arms is somewhat unique, along with the operating system but they are the only semi I own. I specifically decided on Benelli after shooting a friends quite a bit and then it best to go with only Benelli. I have two Field models for hunting and clays, a Tactical for "social" sport and an Entry for HD.

With good factory ammo (none of that commie or eastern european crap) they are very, very reliable. Clearance drills are well practiced and down pat because it is the only type of semi I own. Also the gun is easy to clean - the chrome barrel wipes down easily and no gas tube to get fouled.

And did I say this gun cycles FAST?

I would suggest looking at a non-pistol grip tactical. You can then fit it with a 4 round extender and have almost as much capacity as a Practical (but better balanced). You could also add the speedfeeder and an optic rail later. The tactical is also much cheaper.

Also, get the ghost ring sight setup, the new, non-HK version is fast, sturdy and you can get it with tritum inserts. Alternatively, you may get a better deal on a rifle-sighted version, which I figure with Ashley express sights would be also very quick.

[This message has been edited by psp (edited November 09, 2000).]

Robe
November 10, 2000, 10:46 PM
Wakal- What the heck is that thing in the picture next to the AR? It's looks pretty wickid.

fal308
November 12, 2000, 09:21 AM
The firearm on the left looks like a Gilbert Equipment USAS 12. They came in semi- and full-auto configurations. They also had an accessory drum magazine. These are now on one of the banned lists in the USA, unless it has been registered as a DD (Destructive Device).