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View Full Version : Truck guns....


Dave McC
October 24, 2000, 06:37 AM
Just to kick this around, what, if any shotguns do you keep in your conveyance? Right now,since I'm a Burbie rather than a farm kid, none. But in the past there were several. Some criteria presented for discussion and consideration....

Cost.
Replacebility.
Effectiveness.
Survival potential,whether in a wilderness situation or a wild situation while driving.

Some of the ones Ive used include a 16 ga single bbl H&R, a Savage Model 24 22/20ga combo, and a variety of pumps, especially an 870 or two.

Best of the lot was the Savage, since it had that 22 LR potential, and a peep sight that by happy chance, put Brenneke slugs close to POA for the 22 at 40 yards. Kept it in a GI sleeve in a pawn shop sax case with ammo, including Brennekes and #3 buck.Oh,yeah, sling and cleaning supplies fit right in.

There were downsides to the idea, tho. Theft was a possibility, and many cops take a dim view of folks with guns in their vehicles, even where legal. Taking the truck to the seaside can rust a shotgun out quickly, which is what happened to that 16 ga, tho I was not the perp. A relative who KNEW BETTER did. Said relative doesn't play with my guns anymore.

Many advantages to a truck gun, of course, Protection is an obvious one, so is being able to end the misery of road casualties, the deer, chucks, armadillos, possums,etc, that are killed by cars,but not immediately.

Casual hunting at targets of opportunity, NOT road hunting, is another bennie. Drove past a farm where I hunted, and saw a mess of deer bedded 20 yards off the road.It was gun season, I'd permission, etc. Stopped down the road, loaded up, moved carefully into position, and took a breeder out of the gene pool with a well placed Winchester slug. We've about 40 herd permits for this farm.

Questions, comments, donations?

nedfig
October 24, 2000, 11:28 AM
OLD Rem 870
want to get an old single shot.

Kel-Tec P11 9mm

ned

General Tso
October 24, 2000, 11:46 AM
I've been kicking this around for a while too. I've used some surplus military bolt guns in this role in the past but I sorta prefer a shotgun for general use too.

What I was toying with was one of the Chi-Com knockoffs of the Ithaca 37. They make a decent looking setup with a synthetic stock, rifle sights, 20" barrel that's going for under $150. Same thoughts as you in regards to cost and replacibility etc.

Dave McC
October 24, 2000, 12:43 PM
That ChiCom knockoff might be a good shotgun, General, but....

China is still the largest dictatorship in the world,has an abyssmal human rights record,and the slaves that made that shotgun sureasheck wouldn't be allowed to have it in China.

I see no reason to support the slavery and %^&* going on there by buying ChiCom products.

Dave D
October 24, 2000, 12:55 PM
I'm looking for a used 18" 870 for that role. Preferably something that can shoot 2 3/4" or 3".

tuc22
October 24, 2000, 01:32 PM
I have an SKS as a trunk gun mainly because it's cheap and can afford to get beat up. I've considered a shotgun but was dissuaded due to it's lack of penetration of sheet metal in a defensive scenario. The 7.62x39 cartridge will easily defeat car doors and windows and dispatch most roadside critters, I feel it's a good choice.

NY978
October 24, 2000, 02:00 PM
Instead of a cheap chi com shotgun for a truck gun consider a Maverick 88. They're made by Mossberg and are very inexpensive, reliable guns. My brother in law recently gave me one that he bought new for under $150 at an online auction. We put over 300 rounds through it without any malfunction as of yet.

Benjamin
October 24, 2000, 02:42 PM
Mavericks - if you're looking at one, spend the extra $20-30 and get a mossberg 500 from Wal-Mart. Either a 'standard' one or the persuader with 7+1 capacity. Both have dual slide bars, which the Mav. doesn't.

But for all around truck/trunk guns, I'd have to go with an Enfield (if I were right handed) or an SKS. Neither will cost more than a buck and a half, and have greater range and penetration than any shotgun ammo.

I know it's possible to make 300 yard shots with a slug, but it's hard to do with out extensive practice. With a military rifle, you just slide the rear sight up and aim normally....

PJR
October 24, 2000, 03:17 PM
This is a tougher question than you might think. At first you might pick the cheapest gun you own because of the environment it will live in. OTOH, this is the gun that may be called upon to do serious work.

Remington 870, 18". I have faith in these guns and have confidence in my ability to handle them under pressure.

Frank
October 24, 2000, 03:23 PM
I had a Winchester Defender for a while then a Remington 870 Express. The 870 was a good gun. I sold it last month to a buddy that moved out to the hills.

KilgorII
October 24, 2000, 04:54 PM
I don't know where you guys live (Bosnia?) but I carry a NEA single shot 12 gauge behind the seat. It is not really for defense, the Glock on my hip does that. If someone is 300 yards away, I'll get in my truck and drive off instead of fighting. yeesh

Dave McC
October 24, 2000, 07:56 PM
An SKS would be a good truck gun also for WIHTF, but we're talking(or at least I was) about a GP tool for the truck, not an E&E, start the revolution, I'm ready firearm.

Here and now,IMO, I'm more likely to have to replace a stolen single barrel shotgun than to have great and immediate need for a semi auto, centerfire rifle in my vehicle.

And a SKS is a good firearm, but it lacks the versatility of a shotgun.OTOH, folks living in western areas much more open than here in Md might have more use for a rifle.

twist996
October 24, 2000, 08:07 PM
dave...just got a rem 870 police turn in from my dealer...great condition, rem 870 wingmaster...spent about $200....get our dealer to check his cataloques/companies...try sog (not sure of the real name, but ffl required)

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speak now, or forever hold your peace

General Tso
October 25, 2000, 09:48 AM
I understand your objection to the ChiCom guns Dave and can respect your position but, without trying to turn this into a big political debate, disagree. Not on principle (I'm not overly fond of the Chinese gov't either. As an American srviceman I may well be facing them someday) but I think that free trade and access to non-governmental information and news through the Net etc is what's going to bring the communist regime down not an economic boycott. I agree with your sentiments about the regime but disagree on how to tackle the issue.

Besides, ever shop at Walmart? Take a look where most of the stuff is made sometimes. Clothes, shoes, appliances, tools, electronics etc. It's pretty hard to avoid Chicom products these days as they are one of our biggest trade partners (like it or not). Rip your computer open, I bet money that some of the guts are of Chinese origin.

Main reason I like the 37 knockoffs is features for the price. I wish someone else made a comperable product for the price but they don't. The only ones I see close are the Russian guns :)

With all that said, I haven't actually bought one of any of the Chicom stuff yet anyway, I just like the package they offer :)

As to the Mavericks, I don't care for them. I agree with Benjamin, spend the extra $20-$30 on a Mossberg at that point. My buddy has 2 Mavericks and we've had failures to go in to battery with both of them. I'm a big pump shotgun shooter and have never had problems with any gun before but on both Mavericks unless you cycled the action very vigourisly they wouldn't fire and you had to re-cycle them dumping the live round in the chamber. Maybe it was a fluke, these are the only two Mavericks I've used, but I've never had that happen with Mossbergs, Winchesters, Ithacas or Remingtons.

Another option is to poke around at the gun shows or shops for some of the older used "generic" pumps like the Sears Roebuck guns, the old Savages etc. I see these from time to time for $150 and less. Only thing I don't like about them is that typically they're 28" tubes and bead sights. I'd prefer a shorter barrel and rifle sights for general purpose use.

Dr.Rob
October 25, 2000, 02:59 PM
Shotguns are versatile. The 870 is my pick, but I've always noticed that ranchers here in the west rarely keep a scattergun in the truck/on the saddle. Generally thier "truck gun" is a lever action 30-30. This is partly due to seeing the oppurtunistic deer or predator on the ranch where longer shot might be needed. (say 150 yards)

many of the so called "beater" guns are old mil surplus rifles of some sort that get thrown in a canvas bag behind the seat in addition to the primary hunting rifle. Use what you can afford and what you like. The sks seems a bit less robust than a polish m-44 or enfeild to me, but its really a question of choice.

My "back up rifle/truck gun" is an 870 with rifle sights.

K80Geoff
October 25, 2000, 04:17 PM
Here in NY truck guns will get you into more trouble then they are worth. Keep them out of sight and don't tell anyone!

When I was a kid I used to carry an H & R topper in 410 in the trunk of my 59 chevvy. ( Remember the wings!) Used to poach rabbits with it with my college buddies. In my generation that was what we considered a drive by shooting! Had a buddy who used to grill the rabbit and make sandwiches, went great with a quart of the local swill.

Used to go to junior college with my .22 in the trunk, I was on the smallbore team and no one thought it was a problem. During legitimate hunting season I carried my 870 too. Never had a problem with the cops. People thought those of us who went hunting as normal upstanding citizens.

Now I am licensed up the yazoo, the cops can take the license away if I am a bad boy or have mental problems (I won't go anywhere near a shrink!)

Oh well!


Geoff Ross

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I am no expert but I DO have an opinion.

Spectre
October 25, 2000, 05:48 PM
I like shotguns. I consider them the most versatile firearm. I plan on writing an article about a project shotgun George Stringer is massaging for me, in the next few months.

The only thing is, a gun like the one I'll have will NOT be one I'd like to lose.

I picked up a used, good condition bolt-action Mossberg for 75 bucks or so about two years ago. It did have a 32" barrel, I think, but I figure one can always cut it back to 20", and solder on a bead. 80 bucks and a few minutes of time, if money was tight.

Wally World usually has H&R shotguns for 80$ or so. I hunted with a Topper, Jr 20 gauge for years. Swung fast, kicked like a mule.

Dave McC
October 25, 2000, 07:27 PM
General, let's just agree to disagree abou that trade policy. You're such a reasonable fellow otherwise(G).

A bolt action Mossberg is a good truck gun. The 9 pointer rack over the mantel was taken with same. Excellent slug gun. One used to see used ones in all the gun shops, cheap, but since the slug revolution they've been scarce. Many now wear good optics and E R Shaw bbls.

ctdonath
October 25, 2000, 08:30 PM
In answering the "car gun" (ok, no truck) question for New York state, which has some rather obnoxious restricted zones (at least as affects my lifestyle), I studied the relevant laws and came up with this mind-numbing analysis (http://www.donath.org/Rants/NYSpecial). Conclusion is that slug guns (shotguns originally manufactured with rifled barrels) are completely unregulated in NY (only catch is it must be unloaded when in a vehicle, and you cannot carry slug ammo while afield during deer season without a permit).

My plan is to buy a Mossberg 500 with a rifled bore, replace the barrel with an 18.5" rifled barrel with iron or ghost-ring sights, add an ammo-holding sling, and replace the fixed stock with a folding stock. The result is a compact and very functional gun which NY law does not take legal notice of, even in NY City.

K80Geoff
October 26, 2000, 03:11 PM
Ctdonath...carefull in NYC. City residents are required to have permits to own any firearm, long or short. They do allow non city residents to pass through with the gun if it is unloaded and locked up. You can apparently remain in the city for 24 hours??? with the gun. Don't even think of hanging it in your back window.

The city is full of just plain nasty folk who will use any excuse to cause trouble for someone else if given a chance. A call to the PD stating "Man with a gun" will definitely not make for a pleasant day.

Most street cops are not familiar with the laws and if they see a gun you will spend some time in the precinct unless you can show a permit for the gun.

The only criminal I know of who spent his entire sentence in Rikers Island was Bernie Goetz , they even kept him an extra week for sassing the guards. Most murderers, rapist , violent felons and their ilk only spend a fraction of their time in the hoosegow.

Geoff Ross

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I am no expert but I DO have an opinion.

ctdonath
October 26, 2000, 05:10 PM
Ah, you didn't read the link I gave. (Don't blame you, it's painful reading.)

NY and NYC define shotguns as having smooth bores. Rifled-bore shotguns are not legally shotguns in these jurisdictions - in fact, they are not anything recognized by law. All prohibitions refer to rifles, shotguns, firearms, machineguns, or disguised guns - none of which are legally defined to cover "slug guns". I know it's a strange concept, but I've poured over the laws, and it's true - because NY & NYC do not define things the same way that normal people do.

That said, don't give cops any reason to take notice of it. Cops are tasked with apprehending anyone they THINK is breaking the law; it's not their job to understand the nuances and limitations of law. Sure the system will try to slam you; that's why you must know the law before you do anything. Know the law well, and don't give the authorities any reason to pay attention to you.

Correia
October 26, 2000, 09:36 PM
I debated this a lot, looking at my guns trying to pick the most expendable one for trunk duty. I love my 870, didn't want to put it in there and not look at it for months at a time, my rifles cost to much. So I went and bought an Ishipore .308 for under $100. When I'm feeling richer (ha!) I'll keep on the lookout for a used 870, or perhaps a new Defender or Mossberg. I've shot skeet with a NEF single shot, single shots just don't do it for me.

K80Geoff
October 27, 2000, 07:24 AM
Ctdonath..I hope you have a good attorney! :)

I would think that a slug gun with rifled barrels would fall under the category of rifles, city Judges and DA's would probably also go this route. I would never trust the NYC justice system.

Street cops would never buy the rifled barrel explanation. Hope you never have to test your premise.


Geoff Ross

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I am no expert but I DO have an opinion.

ctdonath
October 27, 2000, 09:24 AM
Nope. It's not a rifle either. By NYS/NYC definition, rifles fire metallic cartridges; shotguns fire shotgun shells. All the obvious, and not so obvious, details are analyzed here (http://www.donath.org/Rants/NYSpecial/).

No, I don't expect any cop to buy it. The judge would have to, though. And I don't want to deal with it ever - just wanted to know what the law allows; what powerful idiots do with it is a different story.

KilgorII
October 27, 2000, 01:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>NY Penal Law ยง 265.00 Definitions.
As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following terms shall mean and include:
...
3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique firearm.[/B][/quote]

Isn't a barrel swap altering a shotgun and still considered a firearm?

ctdonath
October 27, 2000, 02:41 PM
A barrel swap IS an alteration.
A shotgun is NOT a "firearm" (per NY definition), unless the barrel is &lt;18" or by modification has an overall length &lt;26".

According to NYS/NYC, rifles and shotguns are NOT NECESSARILY firearms. They are only "firearms" if they're 'too short'. NY often does not define things the way you define them.

Hence, if you swap barrels on a shotgun, and the new barrel is &gt;18" and overall length &gt;26", it is not and never was a "firearm".

(Or did I misunderstand your question?)

Charlie D
October 29, 2000, 11:38 AM
Being a burbie, I don't carry one, but I have some questions. I'm planning on moving to the boonies of S/W Texas in a year and a half. I thought you almost =had= to have a couple of guns in the window rack of your pickup. Are there any country boys lurking out there? Someone on this thread mentioned cops taking a dim view of weapons in the car. Is that just the East? I was imagining that when you parked in town a new gun in your rack might draw almost as much admiration as a new truck. ;)

Being the subtle type. I'm going for a "ceiling" rack with my M-1 Carbine. It'll be a perfect defensive and close up varmint gun. Also, on the expendable bit, it was cheap. $220 for a "Winchester." Turns out the only thing Winchester about it is the receiver. My buddy got a plain Jane for $180 which was tighter, but by the time he got a good stock it cost more... but I'm long winded and I digress.

Out in the sticks I feel you always need a gun for something and sidearms are uncomfortable in a truck. I'm thinking it'll be a part of the equipment like shovel, fire extinguisher, emergency CB, etc.

I was watching a documentary on bush pilots and their planes. They showed the survival kit piece by piece. I was waiting to see a gun. Never showed. At the end, the guy mentioned a couple of niceties you might want to add and then said, "and of course Alaskan law =requires= you to carry a handgun." Gotta love Alaska. Too cold for me though. ;)

tuc22
October 30, 2000, 12:43 AM
I have my truck gun, an SKS, in a box with a common padlock locked in the trigger guard behind the trigger preventing it's unauthorized use. The key is located with ammo/stripper clips in a remote location. So, I'm wondering what are some other good options here? I've heard of using a golf bag as a rifle case for discreet trunk carry, the idea being that when the trunk (or compartment area) is in open view what do you rather have visible?, a shotgun/rifle?, or a gun case/soft case?, or something totally inconspicuous?

Benjamin
October 30, 2000, 01:38 PM
Slip a golf club 'sock' thing on the buttstock and put it into the golf bag.

Wrap it up in a blanket, or a really big, thick flannel shirt. This won't work too well unless you're at least a L or XL.

In your trunk, inside a simple cardboard box. Yes, really. Or label it 'curtain rods' or something innane.

Many people have used soft or hard guitar cases for AK's, but a guitar may be vulnerable to theft.

Dave McMillan
November 1, 2000, 10:12 AM
Looking at what I perceive as current public opinion, going from greatest to least evil:

Pistols
Revolvers (these two first due to HCI efforts)
Semiautomatic rifles with military backgrounds (dreaded assault rifles)
Rifles designed for hunting
Shotguns with extended magazines
Shotguns, pump action/semiauto
Shotguns, O/U

If this is even close to being true, I think the reaction of most LEOs and judges will mirror this list.

Anyone else have thoughts?

KilgorII
November 1, 2000, 11:17 AM
I would put the AR-15's and AK's over a .38 revolver or any revolver for that matter as far as Media induced insanity goes.

Frank
November 1, 2000, 02:45 PM
Benjamin - remember "The Getaway" with Steve McQueen? He gets on a bus and was carrying his 12Ga wrapped up in a coat. Nobody looked at him twice. Great movie.

Benjamin
November 1, 2000, 07:41 PM
Nope, never caught that one, but I do remember Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. When the Templars were chasing him thru the library, catacombs, then the city....they had a subgun under a folded up trench-coat. Looked pretty normal, till the whipped it out.

Nestor Rivera
November 3, 2000, 05:20 PM
IF your in a rural area and like rifles pick up a millsurp Mosin-Nagant, Mauser, or enfield prices will start at +-

A good choice would be a Russin M-1891/59 carbine loaded by stripper clip with the either light ball or better yet light hand loads. total cost $120

If you want a shot gun hit a show and pick up any number of lowcost 16ga that abound for 75 to 150.

Nevada Fitch
November 3, 2000, 08:58 PM
Well, I will have to qualify as a country boy.I have lived in the country most of my life except for a few years after I got married.We finally moved back to the farm and here I will stay until I die or get too old to have any control of my sences.unfortunutly I do have to work in town.Most everyone hunts in this area.And until just a couple of years ago nobody though a thing about bringing a gun into my office and storing it there for the day for any number of reasons from going hunting after work to just showing off their latest new gun they bought.You don't see guns in the back windows of trucks like you used to.But you still see a few.The farther you get from town the more you see.Most people keep them behind the seat any more.I still would guess that at least a third of the trucks at work will still have some kind of gun in them at least during the open hunting seasons and some year around.MY vote for the best truck gun ever made is the lever action 30/30.some carry a 22 of some kind in addition to a centerfire.and of course a few shotguns usualy an old single barrel or pump.If I lived in the big city parish the thought I would carry a handgun and hoped to he** i never needed it.I have herd of some truckers who carry cap and ball blackpowder pistols thinking they are clasified as a non gun in several places.Others carry the little snake charmer 410's.I read Jeff Cooper say that the 30/30 lever action was legal at least in your home in NYC is this not true?

Nevada Fitch
November 3, 2000, 08:59 PM
Well, I will have to qualify as a country boy.I have lived in the country most of my life except for a few years after I got married.We finally moved back to the farm and here I will stay until I die or get too old to have any control of my sences.unfortunutly I do have to work in town.Most everyone hunts in this area.And until just a couple of years ago nobody though a thing about bringing a gun into my office and storing it there for the day for any number of reasons from going hunting after work to just showing off their latest new gun they bought.You don't see guns in the back windows of trucks like you used to.But you still see a few.The farther you get from town the more you see.Most people keep them behind the seat any more.I still would guess that at least a third of the trucks at work will still have some kind of gun in them at least during the open hunting seasons and some year around.MY vote for the best truck gun ever made is the lever action 30/30.some carry a 22 of some kind in addition to a centerfire.and of course a few shotguns usualy an old single barrel or pump.If I lived in the big city parish the thought I would carry a handgun and hoped to he** i never needed it.I have herd of some truckers who carry cap and ball blackpowder pistols thinking they are clasified as a non gun in several places.Others carry the little snake charmer 410's.I read Jeff Cooper say that the 30/30 lever action was legal at least in your home in NYC is this not true?

ctdonath
November 3, 2000, 10:27 PM
I read Jeff Cooper say that the 30/30 lever action was legal at least in your home in NYC is this not true?

For all practical purposes, all guns are wholly illegal in NYC. Permits, exceptions and loopholes do technically exist, but they are very hard to obtain or use if you're not rich or powerful.

Nevada Fitch
November 4, 2000, 05:59 PM
Does this mean that the second amemdment right is totaly gone in NYC?

Spectre
November 4, 2000, 10:23 PM
Yup. They started taking it about 1900, if I remember correctly.

Nevada Fitch
November 5, 2000, 11:22 AM
Well, that is the last place on earth I want to visit then.