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mvdemarco
May 30, 2002, 08:45 PM
Could you compare the recoil of a Benelli M1 to the recoil of a Mossberg 590 using the same loads? I've heard mixed opinion on this matter and I need some advice from the people who know! LOL!

Thanks,

Mike

DML
May 30, 2002, 09:00 PM
I'm not sure if the recoil energy is different from the Mossberg, but most people, including me, find the Benelli's recoil sharper and somewhat unpleasant.

It's not the weight difference. If you check the specs, you will find that Mossbergs, Remington 870s and Benellis weight pretty much the same. The Benelli M1 S90 weighs 6.7 to 7 lbs. The 590 weighs 6.75 to 7 lbs. The 870 Express weighs 7.25 lbs. These figures are from their websites.

FPrice
May 30, 2002, 09:06 PM
I have no first-hand knowledge but I will pass on what my dealer reported. He is carrying both the Benelli M1 and the Beretta 1201FP for sale. He fired both (about 90-100 rds the first time out) and felt that it was an easy gun to fire. He did not find the recoil bad at all.

Al Thompson
May 31, 2002, 07:22 AM
The problem with judging recoil is that it's a personal issue. I find that stock fit can increase/decrease what an individual thinks - and it depends on the individual.

For instance, when I wanted an OU, I tried many different Sgs. With several of the european brands, I had trouble with low combs. I have high cheeck bones and find that SGs that force me to really put my head down tend to bruise my face. Same loads in all guns, different stock fits.

Another concern is the "footprint" that the butt plate has - if it's large - less percieved recoil, small - more "felt" recoil. My original 870 came with a Remington folding stock. Very painfull to fire. I replaced it with a "junk bin" wooden stock and the gun became eaiser to fire. No difference other than a bigger footprint on the butt plate.

In terms of my perceptions, the two M1S90s that I owned tended to kick very much like an 870. I have not fired a Mossberg 590 series, but I would imagine most pumps kick about the same.

HTH

Kernel
May 31, 2002, 09:59 AM
Conventional wisdom says the Benelli should have less perceived recoil. Though it is not gas operated it is a semi auto and has a large spring and internal moving mass which dampens the recoil jolt by spreading the impulse over a longer time frame. The 590 has no spring. In practice the things mentioned in the previous posts above - stock fit, butt pad design, etc - are probably as important to how we perceive recoil.

My own observations: My 12ga M1 Field kicks much less than my old Mossberg 500 when firing 3" full power sabot loads - perhaps the worse recoiling round you can fire in a 12 gauge. I also have a Benelli 20ga Montefelltro and find it much more comfortable to shoot 1-1/4 oz pheasant loads than my dad's 20ga Beretta O/U which weights about the same.

These differences I only notice when I'm practicing - sighting in a slug gun or shooting clay pigeons. In the field I hardly notice recoil at all. So recoil differential has little impact on which shotguns I choose to carry. Things like function, weight, and looks are far more important to me. -- Kernel

DML
June 2, 2002, 02:18 AM
Interesting. Maybe I just run into a lot of folks who have problems with their Benelli. Like everything else, some people love them and some people hate them. Personally, I wouldn't have one.

I am often surprised at the outright hostility I get when I say anything negative about the M1 Super 90. I once told a guy that a certain AK law enforcement agency swapped their Benellis for 870s because the Benellis were unreliable and I swear the guy tried to crawl through the phone line to wring my neck.
:-)

Oh well.....One mans meat, etc.

Skunkabilly
June 2, 2002, 11:34 PM
12ga...big and heavy...I get off on it!!

Intel6
June 3, 2002, 10:35 AM
Gizmo99 said it best about precieved recoil. I regularly shoot a .460 Weatherby Magnum out of a sub 9lb. rifle and I am 6'4" 230 lbs. If I say the recoil isn't too bad, what does that mean to you?

Now, I have both a Benelli M3S90 and a few Remington gas autos. When I first started casting and reloading my own shotgun slugs, my Benelli was the only SG that I had sights on to test the loads. The recoil with heavily loaded 1.25 oz. slugs was very stiff out of the Benelli. Then finally got some MMC ghost rings on my 11-87 Police and started firing the slugs out of it. . I immediatly felt the difference in recoil between the two and knoeo from personal experience that the Benelli recoild more than other gas autos and is closer to a pump than an auto.

Kernel
June 3, 2002, 12:26 PM
Intel6, Interesting observations. Did you ever chrongraph the same slug load out of your Benelli and Remington? Accounting for differences in barrel length I'm guessing you might see less out of the Remington. Assuming weighs were the same why else would two gas operated shotguns have such a noticeable different recoil. Are the mechanisms and/or cycling times that different? Then there's geometry - how the guns fit. It would be an interesting experiment. -- Kernel

Victor Romen
June 4, 2002, 10:36 AM
Remington's and Benelli's do not operate the same. Not even close actually. The Remington is gas operated and the Benelli is inertia operated (fancy way of saying recoil operated I think). The 11-87 is also a might bit heavier then the M1 Super 90. From what I can remember the M3 did not weigh much more then the M1.

Kernel
June 4, 2002, 11:50 AM
Vic,

The Benelli M3 Super 90 (http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/firearms/shotgun/m3s90.html) is gas operated (and manual pump!) unlike other semi auto Benellis that use the "Montefelltro" inertia action. Even still, I won't be surprised if there were vast differences in the mechanism as compared to an 11-87. However, the basic principals are identical. -- Kernel

MrJones
June 4, 2002, 11:56 AM
The Benelli M3 is a semi/pump convertible but is not gas operated. It too uses the inertia/recoil system when in semi mode.

Intel6
June 4, 2002, 12:09 PM
Kernal, as VR mentioned already, the Benelli is recoil while the Remington is gas operated. This is the reason that the Remington doesn't recoil as much as the Benelli.

The slug loads I were shooting were from my Lyman mould and weighed close to 1.25 oz. and clocked 1,280 fps out of both shotguns as they both had shorter barrels.

As far as weight goes, Remington lists the 11-87P @ 9 lbs and Benelli lists the M3 @ 7.4 and the M1 @ 7 lbs.

Kernel
June 4, 2002, 01:19 PM
Intel6,

Right. I was thinking M4. You thew me when you said "...that the Benelli recoild more than other gas autos..". The link I posted above is also wrong since it refers to the M3 as "gas operated".

An inertia recoil system has more perceived recoil than a gas gun because it cycles faster and - because it doesn't rob motive force (expanding gas) to cycle the action - it yields a higher muzzle velocity.

That's the theory. It would still be interesting to know how the two shotguns chrongraphed. I'd guess with identical loads, and taking into account barrel lengths, the 11-87 would be something like 50 fps slower. -- Kernel

Icopy
June 5, 2002, 05:03 PM
I'll add my two cents. Have both and shoot both. I literally hated my M1S90 until I took off the pistol grip stock and installed the standard stock. For me, the recoil kept slamming the stock into my cheek. The regular stock makes the gun a dream. It kicks sharp and fast straight back. My 590A1 kicks heavier, but spread out. Know what I mean? So it's a toss up. As far as reliability goes, both had hang ups for the first box of ammo. After that, both were and still are 100%

CWL
June 5, 2002, 06:27 PM
I prefer mine to my Rem Marine Magnum 870.

For some reason, there is less perceived recoil (I shoot full and reduced buck & slugs, dont use magnum loads anymore). My Rem. is a heaver shotgun.

I have faster follow-up shots as well because it is an autoloader.

mvdemarco
June 5, 2002, 07:45 PM
I just bought my Benelli M1 last weekend and got it to the range yesterday. Everything everyone said about the recoil is pretty much true! It's sharp, but not unbearable. Very similar to my Mossberg in felt recoil. I fired 80 rounds of a variety of different rounds including standard 9 pellet buck, reduced recoil and 12 pellet magnum rounds. Those magnum rounds are fire breathers! I am really amazed at how tight I was keeping the groups at 20 yards! I think due to the fact that the Benelli is smaller in size than the Mossberg and easier for me to get a better "mount". I also picked up a four shot extension for it, had to have it! Anyway, thanks for all the advice and you can be sure that I'll be posting more questions as they arise.

Thanks,

Mike

Kernel
June 5, 2002, 08:30 PM
mvdemarco,

As a new owner you gotta learn the "Benelli Party Trick" (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=107041&highlight=benelli+trick). -- Kernel

Dave3006
June 5, 2002, 09:09 PM
Here is my honest opinion. For a defensive gun, the Benelli rules. Period. I have been in defensive shotgun classes and the Benelli is twice as fast as ANY 870. And, people short shuck pump shotguns under pressure. The Benelli is far more reliable if you consider user error in the equation. Human screw ups are real. Plan on being nervous and less than tactical under stress.

And, if you can't handle the kick of a Benelli, buy a dress and admit you are a girl. They do not kick that bad. It is a non-issue. I sold my 870s and would never look back. It is complete inferior to the M1S90.

harrydog
June 6, 2002, 07:05 AM
Amen, brother!

mvdemarco
June 6, 2002, 08:02 AM
Forgot to mention that all eighty rounds went bang without the hint of a malfunction. Even with the "tactical rounds"! The only thing that I have to get used to in order to feel completely confident with it is hitting the shell release to load the first round. It feels kinda awkward. I still love it though, what a great gun!!!