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View Full Version : ***!!??.... Israeli "Sniper" Shotgun


Kernel
May 23, 2002, 12:41 PM
http://www.isayeret.com/sniping/sniper-50.jpg
From the Israeli Special Forces Home Page - Mossberg 695. (http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/sws/mossberg/mossberg.htm) From their Sniper Weapon Systems (SWS) guide.

Must be for those PLO "Shotgun Only" zones on the West Bank. I wonder if they have Bonus Tags and an Early Muzzleloader season too. :) -- Kernel

dZ
May 23, 2002, 01:40 PM
a 435 grain slug can really ruin yer day at 100 yards

Justin
May 23, 2002, 02:19 PM
I recall reading an article about 2 years ago that dealt with a dedicated 'sniper' shotgun. IIRC, it was a 12-gauge with a fully rifled barrel and was scoped as well. Supposedly quite accurate at distances out to 100 yards.
Seems like a neat concept, I'd be curious to see how well it really functions in the real world, or, barring that, how easy it would be to win bets at the range. ;)

redneck
May 23, 2002, 02:59 PM
Looks alot like the Mossburg slug gun galyans was advertising last fall. 5 or 6 shot box magazine that loads into the bottom of the action, fully rifled barrel, 12 gauge. Didn't have a scope on it and I can't remember seeing anything about a dovetail or the receiver being tapped. Wasn't very expensive, anyone interested could probably build their own 12 gauge sniper pretty easily.

Ewok_Guy
May 23, 2002, 03:26 PM
I like it!

hksigwalther
May 23, 2002, 03:47 PM
If properly built, a slug gun can be quite accurate.

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/mar97tack.html

Dave McC
May 23, 2002, 08:34 PM
I've long wondered how well a bolt action slug gun would shoot if tweaked like a rifle. My last 30-06 was glass bedded, 2 lb trigger that broke like glass and stacked them into one hole at 100 yds if I did my part.

Tarhunt and a few others make some seriously accurate slug guns, but I bet a stiff bbled Mossberg B/A with tweaking and load development might raise eyebrows on the line.

A low velocity sabot slug, say a .375, 220 grain job would serve nicely as a lower noise 100 yd "Surgical" tool.

dZ
May 23, 2002, 09:58 PM
http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/model695.htm

A Perfect match for today's high performance slugs
In this game, a few extra yards adds up to points. That's why every component in the
Mossberg 695 Bolt Action was designed for a specific purpose - tight groups and
repeat-shot slug accuracy.

The 695 takes the trend-setting Mossberg fully-rifled barrel, attaches it to a rigid,
time-tested bolt action, and beds it in a strong weatherproof synthetic stock - a
combination destined to deliver years of reliable service under the toughest hunting
conditions.

The 22" parkerized barrel features a 1 in 36" twist, a perfect match for use with today's
lightnig fast, high performance sabot slugs.

To further enhance the 695's accuracy potential, all barrels are factory ported to help
reduce felt recoil and muzzle jump for quick second shot recovery. A detachable box
magazine ensures fast reloading and easy unloading and factory installed swivel studs
allow the addition of a sling for convenient shouldering.

Designed for maximum accuracy
Choose from standard adjustable rifle sights or for ultra-fast target acquisition in extreme
low light conditions, select Fiber Optic sights. Using only natural light, these high
visibility sights have to be seen to be believed. In addition, all 695 receivers are drilled
and tapped for scope mounting, and include Weaver #55 scope bases for quick optics
attachment.

yorec
May 24, 2002, 12:04 AM
A precision slug gun... The perfect gift for the gunowner with everything! :D

Seeker
May 24, 2002, 02:14 AM
See the spotter -- he's saying "I squish your head!"

goosegunner
May 24, 2002, 05:27 AM
my guess is that this "sniper shotgun" is loaded with "less-letahl"/
"non-lethal" ammunition, like a round rubber ball or similar

Dave McC
May 24, 2002, 05:34 AM
Thnaks, dZ. Do you work for Mossberg(G)?

One point I'm trying to make. Best accuracy will NOT be made with standard thickness bbls. Look at that NEF single with the industrial strength tube. Still thin by rifle standards. Thicker bbls have more consistent harmonics, greatly aiding accuracy.

HerbG
May 26, 2002, 04:00 PM
Anybody have a clue about the advantages of using a slug gun that has a very limited range over something like an accurate .308? Interesting yes, but why are the Israeli's fielding this thing? It can't be accuracy, penetration, or even less noise.

George Hill
May 26, 2002, 05:28 PM
Seeker - The line is "I crush your head!"

500 cool points for the Kids in the Hall refrence.

Nightcrawler
May 26, 2002, 05:35 PM
I think lack of penetration in crowded urban areas is one advantage. Another is the fact that you could use rubber slugs with it to peg instigators during a riot type situation.

George Hill
May 26, 2002, 05:39 PM
I want one now. Forget that HS Precision that I was eyeing...
I want that!

I'm fickle... I know.:p

Nightcrawler
May 26, 2002, 06:58 PM
I don't know for sure what the HS Precesion you were eyeing was, but you can get a Mossy bolt-action shotgun at your local sporting goods store! Dunham's always has them around here. The suggested retail price is $345.00 for the standard version, or $367.00 with firesights. Not bad!

LBC
May 26, 2002, 06:58 PM
If I recall correctly, Scattergun Technology, before it was bought by Wilson, used to offer an "urban sniper" version of a Remington 870 or 11-87. I believe it was scoped.

dfaugh
May 26, 2002, 08:09 PM
Its cause you could also use it for a variety of different loads, as someone else pointed out...Supposedly, most urban(LEO) sniper shots are under 75 yards, so probably accurate enough...Could also load buckshot, birdshot, riot loads, whatever for special situations...Not a bad idea maybe....

Cthulhu
May 26, 2002, 11:50 PM
Those Mossberg 695's, fully rifled with fiber optic sights, are $296.97 at your local Wally World. The non-finished bolt is prone to rust and the stocks need some serious bedding and reinforecment, as all of the ones I've seen exhibit sloppy action and barrel fit, allowing you to move everything about quite easily with the action bolt screwed in tight. Lots of fun during actual recoil, I'm sure. A bed job w/ marine tex epoxy would probably fix that handily, though.

The rifled barrel would make any attempt to use shot loads a dysmal failure. According to that website, they use the 12ga slug for terminal performance at short, urban engagement ranges and delivering specialty ammo, probably CS ferret rounds.

Anyone looking for a seriously accurate slug gun need look no further than the H&R/NEF Ultra Slug gun. A fully rifled bull barrel, built on the 10ga frame w/ a 10ga barrel blank bored as a 12ga. Very heavy (11lbs) but extremely accurate at 100yds w/ 1 3/8 oz Brenneke Golden slugs (designed for rifled BBLs) and Winchester Partition Sabots, among others. It even shoots conventional rifled slugs well until the barrel leads up. I picked mine up, scoped and slung, for a paltry $135, and they retail around $169-200. Its a single shot, but the powerful ejector flings the empties out 15 feet to the rear, leaving the chamber open to quickly slap in the next round. With the gun rested on the bench (or a bipod, perhaps) one can reload and fire again rather quickly. Not as practical for a stalk hunting weapon as a typical slug gun, but makes 150 yd + slug shots quite a bit more achievable, should the situation require it.

Shaun Frame
May 27, 2002, 11:25 AM
If you are interested in a precision slug gun, there are other options besides bolts.

The Ithaca DSIII I bought last fall is a specialized slug shooting machine, and is amazingly accurate.

With a Leuopold VX-II 3X9 mounted in Burris Z rings the whole rig weighs 11lbs 110z. about like some of my heavy varmint rifles.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/S.Frame/Mvc-886f.jpg
I hunt in a “shotgun only” area, and most of the terrain is flat, cultivated, farmland. Relatively long shots are common. I wanted a slug gun capable of a level of accuracy that will allow me to cleanly take deer at ranges up to 200 yards using the current “high tech” sabot slugs, and after 4 years, I have finally found one that will.

The DSIII averaged under 2.5MOA for three-shot groups with the three different brands of slugs I’ve tried so far, 3” Lightfield Commanders, Rem. Copper solids” (both 23/4”and 3”), and Winchester “Supreme Partition Gold”.

I sighted in with the Winchester SPG’s at 150 yards. Three shot groups averaged just over 3” at this range, which works out to about 2MOA. With a 150 yard zero this slug strikes 2.1” high at 50 yards, +3” @100, -3” @175, and -7” @200. This round fires a .51 caliber 385 gr Partition bullet at a chronographed 1,970 fps at 20', the remaining velocity and energy at 200 yards is 1,307fps, and 1,460ft/lbs. Awesome performance from a shotgun.

With a good range finder, hits on man-sized targets out to about 300 or 350 yards would be simple.


I sure wouldn't want one pointing my way.
http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/S.Frame/Mvc-884f.jpg

Dave McC
May 27, 2002, 01:09 PM
A friend has one of those Ultras, it's very accurate but no offhand shooting tool.

The Ithaca oughta be close to best. Fine workmanship, tight tolerances, and a classic design.

For "Serious" use, I see little reason for a dedicated slug gun. Others may differ...

norielX
May 28, 2002, 01:57 PM
All of my fun is "serious" :D

This thread just got me thinking of getting a new toy! Wally World, eh? Keep 'em coming, guys!

dZ
May 29, 2002, 03:31 PM
if i worked at mossberg, i would have a much larger gunsafe
:D

heres something else in the nifty department:
http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/modelSSi.htm

SSi-ONE™* SLUG SHOTGUN* Single-shot, lever-opening, break action design with a 12 gauge 24" fully rifled barrel. Includes matte metal finish, fluted, cut-checkered, satin finished black walnut stock and forend and swivel posts for quick-disconnect sling swivels, top tang safety, cocking indicator and scope base. Features interchangeable 'SSi" centerfire rifle and 12 gauge shotgun barrels. (scope shown is not included)**#74007 - 12 gauge

Mannlicher
June 2, 2002, 10:14 AM
If I had to hunt in a shotgun only area, one of these would be an absolute neccesity. Since I hunt in Florida and Virginia, and can use my rifles in both places, one of these dedicated slug guns would only be a novelty/toy for me. Getting one is not high on my firearms priority list.

seadog
June 2, 2002, 11:35 AM
My smooth bore Benelli M3 with ghost ring sights will throw regular foster type slugs into 2" at 50 yards and about 5" at 100 while not deflecting buckshot and other loads like a rifled barrel sometimes does. Good enough for me. If the SHTF at distance, it's still a rifle kind of day...