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foghornl
May 17, 2002, 02:29 PM
This story is from the www.WTAM.com website. WTAM is the leading talk-radio station in Greater Cleveland. Coventry Township is in Summit County, Ohio, near Akron.

Cops say a 24-year-old Coventry Township mother became distracted while giving her baby a pacifier as she was driving late last month. That caused her car to swerve. It cut off a red Firebird. That car sped up and cut her off. It went that way for a while, until the Firebird forced her off the road. She got out, and an altercation ended with her being held down on the ground and raped on the side of the road. She gave police a detailed description of the driver and the red Firebird. As a result, police have arrested 17-year-old Jordan Rollins of Coventry Township. Cops say Rollins had three friends help him. He's not talking to the cops.

Skorzeny
May 17, 2002, 03:05 PM
If true, it is a clear cut case of rape. What I find odd is this part: It went that way for a while... Does that mean she continued to engage in this juvenile game of cutting the other car off? If so, she was stupid.

Skorzeny

tag
May 17, 2002, 04:23 PM
While this in no way excuses the teenager for what he did (I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail) this woman should have never continued cutting him off and she definitely should not have gotten out of the car when she was run off the road. Unfortunately, she learned this lesson the hard way.

krept
May 17, 2002, 10:26 PM
I agree.

I'd also like to say that is terrible what happened.

Hopefully she will carry a firearm now, get training and move to a place where she can carry if she can't now.

If she were carrying at the time, there would be one or more brand new ghosts born that night.

Not to sound militant, of course, but in reality this couldn't have ended up much worse for her.

Skorzeny
May 18, 2002, 12:32 AM
Hopefully she will carry a firearm now, get training and move to a place where she can carry if she can't now. But then again, do we want someone who cuts others people off out of rage on the road to be armed?

Skorzeny

krept
May 18, 2002, 01:27 AM
No we don't want them to be armed too!

from the link above:

Sabathia Robbed At Gunpoint
Cleveland Indians Pitcher C.C. Sabathia was robbed at gunpoint early Friday by a group of men at a downtown Cleveland hotel. Sabathia and his cousin were robbed after returning to the hotel with a group of people they had met at a nightclub. Sabathia was not hurt, but his necklace, earrings and wallet were stolen. Cleveland police confirmed the incident but say no report has been filed. A shaken Sabathia called the robbery ``a life altering situation'' and blamed himself for getting into the predicament. Sabathia is scheduled to pitch Saturday in the first game of a doubleheader. Click on our Indians page for Mark Schwab's report.

I guess the site to the story changed? (edited, found it)In any event, I don't want hoodlums that rob people to be armed either.

yorec
May 18, 2002, 06:45 AM
In reference to the original story - two truths are evident. Road rage is stupid and rape is an act of violence not sexuality.

The combination is all the more shocking as a result... :(

G3
May 18, 2002, 01:03 PM
Can't say I feel sorry for her.

How is it any different from a man who antagonizes another person and then gets shot for their stupidity?

How many people are going to feel sorry for the dumba$$ who gets shot and killed?

Mannlicher
May 18, 2002, 02:55 PM
G3 and the others that have no feelings for the woman,

The information, as presented does not say she did anything other than accidently **** off the little miscreant. You feel no sympathy for her? I hope none of the women you love are ever in the same situation. Geez, dont jump to conclusions that fit your world view, without a wee bit more information.

krept
May 18, 2002, 03:54 PM
I think from Skorz's first post, everyone assum...er was thinking that she continued playing their game.

Even if she was trying to teach them a lesson it obviously doesn't excuse what happened. I don't think anyone is saying that. Just pointing out mistakes she made along the way.

I remember reading a story here about a guy in AZ that didn't do anything and was repeatedly challenged (cut off, tailgated, etc) by some dkhd and he ended up pulling into a Dennys or something and they guy followed him. He said he didn't even provoke the BG. He stayed in his car for a while until the other guy tore off. Something like that. He was carrying too, I believe, or at least does now.

Road rage is a big deal out here in Phoenix...
I guess it's like a "being bullied in highschool" mentality. Someone gets cut off or tailgated, and it's like "hey, you can't do that to me!" and then the trouble starts.

Skorzeny
May 18, 2002, 05:38 PM
Even if she was trying to teach them a lesson it obviously doesn't excuse what happened. I don't think anyone is saying that. Just pointing out mistakes she made along the way. Absolutely! I do feel sympathy for her. Rape should not have happened, and shouldn't happen, period.

What I have a problem with is that she turned it into the proverbial "penis-size" contest, at least initially from what I read in the article, probably because (I assume, I acknowledge) she was in the safety of her car. This is precisely the kind of mentality that a gunowner should NOT have - to feel big and aggressive because one thinks one has an equalizer, be it a car or a .45ACP.

The issue would be similar if this were a big guy vs. small guy situation, and the latter was savagely assaulted after BOTH played the cut off game with their cars.

Skorzeny

ThePatriot29
May 18, 2002, 05:48 PM
G3: An armed response to an actual attack or the serious threat of grave bodily injury ensuing after a road incident such as the cutting off in question, as you postulated in your theoretical situation, is a morally, if not legally justifiable action of self defense. No one would be sorry if the agressor was shot.
However, rape is by no stretch of the imagination a valid moral or legal response to even the threat of bodily harm. At this point, regardless of prior provokation, the moral condemnation passed to the b@$tards who decided that a road conflict justified them to violently sexually assault a 24 year old mother in order to forcefully establish their dominace. How would you react if one of your sister, mother, or wife was raped by a bunch of young punks because of a bad decision she made in traffic?
Your comparison is not only calloused, but incredibly stupid, and breaks down under scrutiny. It is misogyny such as this that makes gun owners appear to be sexist rednecks.

KP95DAO
May 18, 2002, 07:09 PM
The killer part of this story is that if it happened in Oklahoma a person with a CCW could not draw his/her firearm first to stop the rape. Only after provoking one or more of the perps into threatening you could you present your firearm; according to the law.

Not that I would give a damn about the law in such an instance.

DaveK
May 18, 2002, 07:47 PM
It dosn't show a whole lot of class to criticize a woman after she has been raped, whatever the circumstances.

kbsrn
May 18, 2002, 09:48 PM
The way the story reads both of them were being pretty rude, cutting each other off. But that is no excuse for their actions.

G3
May 18, 2002, 10:48 PM
Sometimes class becomes a casualty when speaking the truth.

I am not condoning rape by any means. But, lets put aside the emotional hot button of rape for a moment.

From the article the woman continued to drive recklessly and further escalated the road rage incident. Mind you, she did this with her infant child in the car.

Did the woman deserve what she got? No way, but she is at least partially responsible for a simple traffic incident escalating to a physical assault.

Replace the context of a woman with a man and the rape with a shooting death. Do you still feel sorry for the victim? Or do you think some a$$hole bit off more than they could chew and brought violence upon themselves?

What if the women had caused a traffic fatality while she and the teenager were playing their game, and it's your loved who is killed?

There are plenty of truly innocent victims in this world to feel sorry for. I don't waste my time with the rest.