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hube1236
August 9, 2000, 02:16 PM
I want to take up shotgun hunting. I will probably only hunt fowl (water and land with it)- no slug launching.

I went to the local gun store- sorry Coinneach wasn't yours. The guy recommended that I buy a 10 ga, 28", Benelli(?) Semi. The retail was $1100. This seems a little high, and I know you get what you pay for, but $1100?

My primary intent will be duck and pheasant.

Al Thompson
August 9, 2000, 09:00 PM
Hube, I'll move this to the Shotgun Forum - should get you more info there.

Giz

Captain Bligh
August 10, 2000, 07:05 AM
Do what you want but in my experience, ducks don't regret it any less if shot with an $1100 dollar shotgun or a $300 shotgun. Either one tends to ruin their day.

RJ

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"Never turn your back on the crew."

Frenchy
August 10, 2000, 07:18 AM
There are PLENTY of good shotguns out there for under $600.00 new. 12ga. with 3 in. chamber and choke tubes. The action is up to you. My preference is the Ithaca 37 pump. With proper choke and load, I can go after Woodcock to Goose to Turkey!!

Frenchy

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Donnez-moi la liberté, ou donnez-moi la mort!

Eric of IN
August 10, 2000, 07:51 AM
Benelli's are good guns, but they seem to be priced higher than I think they should be. You might want to reconsider the 10 gauge. Ammo is expensive, and it's much harder to find than 12 is.
Eric

Coinneach
August 10, 2000, 10:37 AM
So, Hube, I guess you didn't see the $550 Browning 10 on the back wall of the shop, eh? ;)

Personally, I'd say 10 is overkill. 12 pump with 3" steel loads and a 28" barrel should do just fine for Daffy, and it'll beat you up less. Not to mention costing less than half of that $1100 :eek: Benelli.

jthuang
August 10, 2000, 11:01 AM
As I understand it, the big 10 is only required for high-flying honkers and turkey -- and then only if you really really really need the extra range.

In the alternative, I'd get a standard 12 gauge in 3.0" or 3.5" chamberings. Much easier to find ammo for these babies.

Justin

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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

Halffast
August 10, 2000, 01:03 PM
Hube,

The Benelli's are fine shotguns and you won't regret buying one, but I think your dealer is trying to sell you a gun that he is having trouble moving. I have done quite a bit of duck and goose hunting and I owned a Browning BPS 10 ga. It is great for pass shooting geese, but ducks and decoying geese will fold up to a 12 ga. just as well as a 10. 10 ga. shells run from $.75 to over $2.00 depending what you want. You won't be able hunt upland birds with it very well because it doesn't swing very quickly. I was not been able to find lead shot small than #4's in 10 ga. I also think that the 3 1/2" 12 ga. is a waste as well.

You don't need to spend $1100 on a shotgun to start hunting with. Not that you don't get what you pay for. But a $250 870 Express will kill 95% (or more) of the birds that an expensive one will. And, what if you don't like bird hunting? If you want to spend $1100, I would look at a Ruger Red Label All Weather. It is the all stainless and synthetic over and under. It is really sweet. I bought a used one and I sold my 11-87 last Saturday because it just sat in the safe since I got the Ruger. If you want to save some money, look at a new 870 Express or a good used auto that will take 2 3/4 and 3" 12 ga. shells. It will do all the duck and pheasant hunting you want to do.

Maybe you should go to Coinneach's shop!

David

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If your looking to government for the solution, you obviously don't understand the problem.

[This message has been edited by Halffast (edited August 10, 2000).]

Coinneach
August 10, 2000, 01:38 PM
Maybe you should go to Coinneach's shop!

Yeah, but come in next week when I'm there, so I get credit for the sale. ;)

(amusing side-note: I stopped in on Tuesday to tell the manager I wouldn't be in this weekend, as I'll be out of town. He was moaning about doing $30 in sales all day. While I was there, I got someone ->this<- close to getting an HK91 for $1650, and sold a Taurus PT940 mag and 10 silhouette targets. :D)

hube1236
August 10, 2000, 02:23 PM
Every time I walk into C.'s shop, except for the one time he was there and we met, I am made to feel like I should be there only to buy. I step aside for the paying customers, I do not fondle something everytime I am there, but...

Gun shops are for us what Flloyd the Barber's Shop was for Andy Griffith Show Characters. Sometimes I like the anonymity of the email and this BB, but I like meeting other people more. This does not happen in a hostile shop.

These are my feelings and my feelings only, I do not wish to prejudice people against the shop because I am a pansy and the owner, who is trying to move merchandise, does not have time to bear a nipple and make me feel good. Did I get all of the possible flames?

Rutgers
August 10, 2000, 03:58 PM
This is one area where the term "get what you pay for" is not true at all. While working in south Texas hunting snow geese and ducks every day for almost 4 months at a time, lots of guys came down with the Benelli Super Black Eagles. Most were brand new and the guys steadily bragged about them because they paid half again as much as most of the better guns on the market would have cost. They quickly changed their tone on the second or third day when they pleaded to borrow my 870 or 11-87 because thier $1200 clubs were not extracting shells. This is not the exception, it was the norm, and I've seen this over 100 times. Now, ask anyone who blew that kind of cash on a gun and thy will tell you "Boy, when they work, I wouldnt own anything else!" I'd tell them quit makin excuses and admit it...YOU GOT SCREWED!!!!!! If you are after an automatic, I reccomend the Remington 11-87. Gave up counting how many cases of ammo i've fired through it (tens of thousands of shells) but with only one failure to operate, I'd say thats damn near 100% reliable. You can get one used for about $500. good luck

Rutgers

hube1236
August 11, 2000, 10:48 AM
Thanks all,

It seems that there is a movement/ extractor reliable issues with cheap shot guns, do things like inherent accuracy come into play with shotguns (I know it is a tube, but god forbid you tell a sigpro guy that a Hipoint is just as accurate). Do shotgun's accuracy count?

RHC
August 11, 2000, 11:04 AM
I own both a Remington 1100 (semi-automatic) and an Ithaca 37 pump. These are both very fine shotguns, reliable, accurate, tough. No need to spend more.

I think a beginner would be wiser to avoid 10 gauge, which is only needed for geese a long ways away, and is way too big for pheasant.

I also suggest that you buy a pump for your first gun. It's too easy to just keep pulling the trigger without thinking with a semi, and you can shoot just about as fast with a pump once you practice a little.



[This message has been edited by RHC (edited August 11, 2000).]

Dave McC
August 11, 2000, 04:31 PM
Not to pull a Clinton, but it depends on what you mean by "Accuracy".

A shotgun is designed to saturate an area, usually about 30" in diameter, at a specified distance. As long as it shoots where you're looking,it's accurate.

Reliability, handling/balance, and weight are the important variables here.

Frenchy
August 11, 2000, 10:24 PM
"Reliability, handling/balance, and weight are the important variables here."

Dave just described a Ithaca 37!!! ;)

Frenchy


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Donnez-moi la liberté, ou donnez-moi la mort!

Jody Hudson
August 11, 2000, 10:53 PM
I did a lot of work to compare the range and pattern of a 10 with a 12. I found that the 3.5" 12 was the same as a 10 ga. The shot string is longer in the 12 and larger diameter in the 10 but the range and pattern were the same.

My favorite of all shot guns is the Bennelli but the other guns mentioned are fine too. For geese you may sometimes want the 3.5" or 10 ga. for range and pattern density. However with the 12 ga. you can change back to 3" or 2 3/4" whenever you want and save tons of money while having a far lighter and more versatile gun. I'd get the 12 ga. 3 1/2" in whatever gun you get.

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Talk is cheap; Free Speech is NOT.

Dave McC
August 12, 2000, 06:40 AM
Frenchy, mon ami, I like the Ithaca, but it has no monopoly on quality. The 870 series, the Winchester 97 and 12, are excellent shotguns also, and when set up correctly handle just as well. The sole unalterable advantage the 37 has is weight, and light weight is a mixed blessing.

Jody, chances are I have decades more on you, and if all the geese, ducks and deer I've shot with dinky little 2 3/4" loads were lined up, they'd reach from me to Indiana.

An expert can take some small advantage from the 3 1/2" shell, but that's the last person that needs the edge.

The big reason for the 3 1/2" shell and shotgun is to sell new shotguns to folks who don't practice enough with their old ones, IMO.

I know a guy who bought a 300 magnum, claimed his 308 wasn't enough for Pa whitetails. Since this guy couldn't limit out on barns from within, I expect to be able to pick up a slightly used 300 mag cheap, if I want one.

Jody Hudson
August 12, 2000, 07:45 AM
I agree with you Dave. I have a couple of boxes of 3" and a couple of boxes of 3 1/2" and I've had them for years. I prefer the 2 3/4" myself.

With modern loadings, faster velocities, shot cups to keep the pellets from scrubbing themselves flat on one side (and thus flying untrue). I just can't bring myself to spend the money on the longer shells as there is too little difference to suit me.

And for deer... I prefer the .22 LR but I am only able to use it when I get invited to a permitted crop-predator shoot where the deer are destroying too much crop on some farmers fields.

And the best hunter for waterfowl and deer that I get a chance to hunt with, uses a 20 ga. for everything! He doesn't buy any meat for his family, and has plenty for guests.

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Talk is cheap; Free Speech is NOT.

Dave McC
August 12, 2000, 07:54 PM
Thanks, Jody. Geezer time(G)...

Young folks just don't know the progress that's been made in ammo since WWII. The shotcup, better powders, harder shot,ROUNDER shot, and non corrosive primers have made ammo that performs in ways that would leave our venerable predecessors slack jawed and marveling.

no 8
November 12, 2005, 05:23 PM
ive been waterfoul hunting since early 1960s ,have used 12 ga but found standard 12 ga not up to snuff. 1 like 10 ga either 2 7/8 in or 3 1/2 ammo. depending what im hunting. my 10 ga o/u weight 9 lbz 28 inch barrels. have also shot 8 bore. No 8

K80Geoff
November 12, 2005, 08:30 PM
If you intend to do any Upland hunting, the 10 ga may get a bit heavy.

mete
November 12, 2005, 09:58 PM
My M1 90 is 7 1/4 lbs which is fine for upland, squirrel, geese, sporting clays etc. I think the 10 is strictly for waterfowl. Benellis are worth the money.

no 8
November 13, 2005, 06:48 AM
For upland shooting i use a American Arms O/U 24 ga.But most of the hunting i do is for black duck eider or scoter.on occasion Canada geese. No 8