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KPS
May 10, 2002, 05:24 PM
You drive down the street to the local mini-mart to buy some soda/cigs/whatever.You are carrying your CCW and a small can of pepper spray.As you leave the store and are walking back to your car,some guy in his early twenties starts yelling obcenities at you.You've done nothing to aggravate him but he continues to yell at you on your way back to the car.Normally in these situations you may have swallowed your pride and got in your car and drove away, but this time you turn around and tell the guy to f**k off.He then starts walking towards you at a faster pace saying he's going to kick your f**king ass.You pull out your pepper spray and warn him to step back or you'll spray.He ignores you and takes a swing at you.You spray him directly in the face and tell him to back off but this only makes him madder.Now he says he's going to kill you for spraying him and starts to lunge forward towards you to try and assault you.At this point you are concerned that he may try to get ahold of your handgun if he finds it.Do you draw it on him and tell him to get down as you call the police?Do you run away from the parking lot and call the police from your cellphone?What realistic options would you have in this particular situation?

Lictalon
May 10, 2002, 07:23 PM
Well, assuming that I'm stupid enough to get into this situation in the first place...

I've pepper-sprayed this fellow and he still keeps coming? Impressive...I'm going to do my best to get away. He's shown no weapons except his hands, and I'm not trapped. I back off, run if I have to, perhaps retreat towards the store and hopefully more assistance.

If I'm unable to break away, or I trip and fall, then I still need to break away from this guy, otherwise we're fighting for my weapon. He's not going to get it on my person: He doesn't know it's there, and he isn't going to be going for my waist.

So no, I don't shoot this guy. I can hold my own in a fist fight, and that's all this is.

Now if he had a knife...

C.R.Sam
May 10, 2002, 08:37 PM
1. I would not react visibly or audibly to the guy in the first place.

2. I don't run. I don't even walk unaided....therefore if he made an unprovoked attack on me I would take steps to stop him.

Sam

George Hill
May 10, 2002, 10:20 PM
ROSHAMBO.


George, with a 10 & 1/2 sized boot.

Edward429451
May 11, 2002, 10:15 AM
I was in almost this exact situation a loooong time ago. Pepper spray and Colt .45.

I think I did tell him to f**k off after he started talking s**t. He came at me and I realized this wasn't cause to shoot him, at least not yet. I hosed his shirtless (summer) self down and up with the pepper spray and it was over. He shreiked like a women and retreated, never did stop yelling insults and trash but seemed to be paying more attention to himself for some reason...

stinger
May 11, 2002, 12:07 PM
ROSHAMBO.

i like that, it took me a few minutes to figure out what the heck you were talking about, but i like that.


stinger

gryphon
May 11, 2002, 06:32 PM
OK I'm silly, I don't get ROSHAMBO?

KPS
May 11, 2002, 07:27 PM
OK I'm silly, I don't get ROSHAMBO

Me neither.I did a search on Google and came up with rock/scissors/paper.Is that right?Boy do I have to get out more often:confused:

vertigo7
May 11, 2002, 07:40 PM
OK I'm silly, I don't get ROSHAMBO

Me neither.I did a search on Google and came up with rock/scissors/paper.Is that right?Boy do I have to get out more often


In this neck of the woods, a ROSHAMBO means a solid kick to the groin. Bonus points if you use steel-toed boots.

Thanks for the laugh George. :)

Edward429451
May 11, 2002, 09:51 PM
What? You guys don't watch Southpark?:D

Kharn
May 12, 2002, 08:22 AM
Roshambo is a game the South Park kids play, basically: The two involved in a dispute will kick each other in the nuts until one gives up.

Kharn

Carry24x7
May 13, 2002, 03:10 PM
Raise one knee about 3 to 6 inches, turn blade edge of foot toward attacker, shove down at an angle with foot contacting attacker's knee.

You will now be able to walk away from this person at a leisurely pace for the rest of his life.

WAPS
June 27, 2002, 12:22 PM
Although sometimes the hardest thing in the world to do is to ignore the insult, be mindfull of your immediate area of control, and attempt to remove yourself from the area.

If without further provocation from you, the aggressor decides to advance while uttering threats, again attempt to retreat from the area while at all times continuing to be aware of what is going on around you.

If you end up in a position where you are cornered, and can no longer retreat and the hostile continues to advance, then you will need to make a decision regarding what level of force to use. If he is unarmed, you will probably not place yourself in much of a legal problem for the use of the pepper spray, but if you spray him and all you manage to do is anger him further, what options are left remaining to you.

Do you fear that this person is going to at minimum severely hurt you and at most kill you? If yes, the choice of whether or not to draw your pistol is pretty much already determined for you.

Williams Associates Protective Serivces, LLC.

Website (http://www.wa-protective.com)

Don Gwinn
June 27, 2002, 12:30 PM
Don't tell people to eff off!
Sorry, I know that's the easy cop-out answer, but that's really where things went south for you. Even if he attacks you without having had that provocation, you're better off because witnesses will now say you were attacked "without provocation." Start yelling obscenities, and it might change to "these two dudes were arguing and that clean-cut one pepper sprayed the scruffy one. Then he pulled a gun and smoked him!"

You want to be the guy in the first account.

braindead0
June 27, 2002, 12:32 PM
When confronted with idiots like this, I usually turn to look at them.. assess the situation (close enough to jump me before getting in car/cover) and walk away if the situation warrants it. If this person is close enough, I'll simply watch the idiot until he either leaves or attacks.

Would staring at a person be considered escalation of force? At 6'2" and 250# that's usually all it takes... :mad:

Riz
June 27, 2002, 04:20 PM
I have been in situations kind of like this where just walking away was an option, I took it and it worked 100%. Telling someone to F*ck off is not an option as far as im concerned when having your CCW with you. Now with that said, your answer.

If he came at me I would do all I could to knock him to the ground without throwing a punch. Im no Bruce Lee but that is one thing that I can do very effectively. After that I would make a mad dash into my car. Now you have something between you two and if nothing else if he attacks your car and then somehow gets run over because your in fear for your life and he jumped in front of you while you were trying to flee.... what can you say?

I tried to stop him by mace, then knocked him down, then locked my door, then tried to get away from the situation but be jumped in front of the car. If I just wanted to kill the dude I could have just shot him but I didn't want to hurt him.

I think using a car as a defensive weapon is very much overlooked.
My .1/2 cents
Riz

tommygun45
June 27, 2002, 06:42 PM
Specificaly in reference to the automobile being over looked as a defensive tool. If you think about it a car is basically a 2000 lb guided bullet, without the stigma of a firearm. Hundreds of thousands of people are killed every year in automobile accidents and yet there is no public outcry deamonizing cars. Think about it this way, would you rather take you chances in a firearms related murder trial or in traffic court.
Of course the better course of action is to Avoid-Evade-Dissengage-Escape. Even if it costs you your pride.

KPS
June 30, 2002, 09:18 PM
Something like this has happened to me quite a few times.I seem to be a sh*t magnet for some reason and the summer months here on Cape Cod attract the best of the A$$holes.In all instances I have just looked at the aggressor and walked away.Swallowing my pride has probably saved me quite a bit of trouble.I do carry Fox pepper spray and occasionally an ASP along with my CCW and have never had to use either one of them.

CMichael
July 2, 2002, 09:11 AM
It's too late to run off you are already in the middle of the fight.

Perhaps gouge and eye or stick your thumb in his throat.

Kick his knee.

Michael

erminio
July 2, 2002, 09:27 AM
Hi guys.. in this situation, I guess I'd think that he's trying to push me to use my reaction against me: that's why I'm not going to react 'till he really (I mean, with a kick and so on) attacks me; useful for witnesses, too: better if it is very very clear who is the good guy and who is the bad one.

Have a good day

Erminio

Bogie
July 2, 2002, 04:10 PM
Some people just want to fight.

Disengage. You do not need to participate. If you have to incapacitate the person to disengage, fine.