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tuc22
July 25, 2000, 05:01 AM
You are not inside the house, outside you are armed with an 870 and a strong side holstered pistol. The SG is dry or has a serious failure to fire (no immediate remedy), do you drop or retain the SG to transition to the sidearm? Why?

Dave McC
July 25, 2000, 07:08 AM
While I've doubts this will ever occur....

Outside the house means it's not a HD scenario, it's civil unrest, riot, war, etc. I can clear most problems with an 870, if there's a problem.I'd retain the shotgun, since I'm outside there's a sling on it,and use my sidearm.But,while a fair hand with a GM,AS scenarios like this are more survivable with a working long arm of some sorts, I'd reload, repair or replace the 870 ASAP.

jthuang
July 25, 2000, 08:10 AM
If the goblin's right in front of us, requiring immediate action, then of course you transition to the handgun and let him have a few. If there is no immediate threat, my shotgun always has a sling so just sling her on my back and draw the Glock.

Now as to the question as to do you "drop or retain the shotgun", I don't see any reason to drop the shotgun, regardless of the goblin's proximity. Transitioning to handgun does not require you to drop your shotgun. If you have a conventional (or no) sling, you just bring your shotgun to your body with your non-dominant hand, muzzle pointed up, with the forearm against your non-dominant pectoral muscle. Your dominant hand draws the handgun.

If you have a Giles or similar tactical sling, you go for your handgun with your dominant hand and bring the forearm dowm with your non-dominant hand in a controlled fall type fashion. You don't want to let it go and have gravity do all the work -- it's very easy to get socked in a delicate place if you let the forearm free-fall. You can then use both hands to fire the handgun.

Justin

------------------
Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania


[This message has been edited by jthuang (edited July 25, 2000).]

fal308
July 25, 2000, 08:48 AM
Another option if the BG is within contact distance is the good old fashioned buttstroke. Nothing like a good buttplate to put upside someone's noggin :)

Jeff, CA
July 25, 2000, 10:09 AM
Being a freak of nature (right-handed with handgun, left-handed with long gun) led me to a different solution: I stick my firing (left) arm between the gun and the sling, and at the same time, "throw" the sling over my head with the right arm, while stepping forward with my left foot. This slings the gun across my chest, butt on left hip, muzzle at right shoulder, and puts me in the left-foot forward, right-handed stance. I don't think it would work for one who shoots both from the same side, since the buttstock would be right in the way of the handgun.

Xero
July 25, 2000, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave McC:
While I've doubts this will ever occur....

Outside the house means it's not a HD scenario, it's civil unrest, riot, war, etc. ASAP.[/quote]

Yes! Most laws specify that if the BG has "broken off the attack" you're legally obliged not to pursue. You have a legal obligation to avoid confrontation, escalation of the incident. You may "give chase" to apprehend, but you're asking for legal problems. If the BG turns and fires on you because you're giving chase, you may be construed as the "aggressor" and the incident viewed as an escalation of the situation.

Never seen an 870 jam, fail, or otherwise show cause to transition to a side arm. Might use a side arm in the house in close quarters.

JNewell
July 26, 2000, 07:49 AM
If I recall correctly, Gabe Suarez once mentioned here that he'd only heard of one shotgun--&gt;handgun transition, and in that case the officer simply dropped the shotgun on the deck. The officer prevailed, by the way. Probably not the neatest or most elegant transition, but it was fast (we assume &lt;g&gt; ) and effective.

This isn't to say that we should not prepare for things that are statistically unlikely, but I have been thinking lately that maybe focusing more on the kernal skills would be good.

One of the instructors at S&W Academy says (no idea whether it's original) "there are no advanced skills, only advanced applications of basic skills." Food for thought...

George Hill
July 26, 2000, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tuc22:
You are not inside the house, outside you are armed with an 870 and a strong side holstered pistol. The SG is dry or has a serious failure to fire (no immediate remedy), do you drop or retain the SG to transition to the sidearm? Why?[/quote]

This would depend on the tactical situation... If the threat is there and now - just let go of the long gun and draw and fire the pistol. Speed is critical. If the threat is away or in another room or such then you have the time to place the weapon some place - like on the ground, quietly, or hide it... then transition to the handgun in a manner avoiding damaging the longarm. It all depends on the situation. If you have a good sling - retention of the shotgun is an option... otherwise it will just get in your way.

Erik
July 26, 2000, 07:09 PM
Assuming this scenario comes to pass:

Defensive and "tactical" shotguns should have slings.

You do not have to use it, as already pointed out, but it helps. (Failure to practice is not the inanimate object's fault.)

I would not discard the shotgun, as a rule.