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Cowboy Preacher
June 27, 2000, 11:23 AM
Does anyone know if there is such a thing as 12ga ammo loaded with rocksalt? if there is what would its purpose be for and who makes it. Anyone have experiance with it?

simon jester
June 27, 2000, 11:42 AM
CP,As far as I know,this is not available commercially,however,if you reload your own is pretty effective as to keeping unwanted vivitors off your property,I know first hand as I was on the wrong end when a kid trespassing and was (stung).

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"i do believe that where there is a choice between cowardice and violence,I would advise violence" Ghandi

Mike Irwin
June 27, 2000, 11:42 AM
No, no, and no.

The "traditional" use for rocksalt in a shell is to get rid of trespassers on your property.

These days, though, if Homeowner pops interluder with rocksalt, interluder is very likely going to win a VERY large financial settlement from Homeowner, who very likely will also go to jail.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.

JNewell
June 27, 2000, 12:41 PM
Just to echo and expand Mike's point, deploying a shotgun (even if loaded with "non"- or less-lethal loads) is going to set you up for a pile of trouble, including (on the criminal side) ADW and/or brandishing charges and (on the civil side) any number of potential claims for physical and/or emotional injuries. You will spend a fortune on lawyers, then pay off the trespasser for a long time if you miss, or forever if you don't.

Generally,
- use of force must be proporionate to the threat
- displaying a gun or knife is using deadly force
- paying perps and/or attorneys really stinks, so you should go a long way to avoid putting yourself in situations where these might become necessary (in short, suck it up and move on)

Obviously, rocksalt isn't likely to kill anyone, so the consequences would probably be less disasterous for the armed citizen, but would probably be very ugly and expensive regardless.

Please don't think I'm jumping on your case; for all I know, you're talking about the racoons that are knocking over your trashcans at night.

By the way, the farmer across the street from where I grew up used rice, not salt. <g>

Lavan
June 27, 2000, 06:33 PM
When I lived in Stockton, Calif about 30 yrs ago, a lady used a handloaded rock salt load on a trespasser because she only wanted to scare him.

No one told her it didn't work that way at point blank range.

Yep, you guessed it.

Dave McC
June 27, 2000, 07:10 PM
Back around 1951 or so, a kid named Lenny and I thought it was fun to steal tomatoes from a neighbors garden. He caught us once and watned us not to do it again. Being young and dumb,we did it again. A charge of rocksalt from his shotgun greeted us and caused instant rehabilitation. I set the record for a 6 year old boy getting home and caused quite a furor on arrival,since you could hear me yelling for a mile,according to Mom.

Pop ws a Game Warden at the time and woke up when I arrived. After checking me out and determining that I was going to recover, he told me it served me right for stealing even a tomato. Then he got in the car and went away.

Years later I learned from Lenny's father that Pop went to the guy with the garden,and broke his face, stating that it was unsafe and the man knew where we lived and a few words to Pop would have solved the problem.

So,there may be other consequences to using rocksalted shells(G)...

BrianF-Jax
June 27, 2000, 10:48 PM
How about dry ice? You get that nice burning effect, self cauterizing wounds.. and no evidence...

*evil grin*

;)

Yes, I know, loading, storing, keeping impossible.

-Brian

swampgator
June 28, 2000, 04:44 AM
I've got about ten rounds in the pick up right now!
Must concur with all who posted it being a bad idea on people. Now stray dogs, cats, etc well, that's a whole new ballgame!

One thing to remember, clean immediately after firing. Or as soon as possible. The salt will cause rust if not removed!

Gator

fal308
June 28, 2000, 08:48 AM
I too am a former almost receipient of rock salt several times over in my misspent youth. Always somehow managed to miss me but my buddy had to soak in a tub for several hours after one flight from the railroad detectives.

Oleg Volk
June 28, 2000, 11:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lavan:
When I lived in Stockton, Calif about 30 yrs ago, a lady used a handloaded rock salt load on a trespasser because she only wanted to scare him.

No one told her it didn't work that way at point blank range.

Yep, you guessed it. [/quote]

She should have used breath mints ;)

My concerns would be 1)return fire 2)accidentally loading up buck when meaning to fire salt

JNewell
June 28, 2000, 01:09 PM
Dave, your father sounds just, wise, and fair. That was then, of course, and this is now. The guy would be in the slammer for sure and paying off a massive lawsuit for the rest of his days, no doubt...would never own another home, and might well never own another firearm (legally) -- among other Bad Consequences. If there were more dads like yours today, well,... &lt;sigh&gt;

Gunslinger
June 28, 2000, 01:18 PM
While growing up my dad and I took up trap shooting. Naturally we started reloading, which, of course, lead to some experimenting with various projectiles. These loads were used for critter control and just general all around fun. Among the things we loaded was rock salt, carpet tacks, small nails, gravel, ground glass and fish sinkers crimped over fishing line. The later were particualrly impressive when fired into plywood. We had neighbors whose fence joined ours that owned a couple of old Jenny's. These Jenny's made it a habit of riding the fence down requiring repairs. My dad decided to rock salt them. Mind you I did not approve of this practice. My father was terribly cruel to even his own animals and kids to for that matter. ;) Eventually the Jenny's learned the effective range of rock salt and would simply move out of range when they heard the door open. My dad, being the determined type he was, decided the must be a way of "getting even" with these foul critters. In those days one could walk into any hardware store and purchase Dupont dynomite the same as a box of nails. We always kept a goodly supply on hand for removing stumps and fishin' and such. One day the Jenny's returned and in a druken state my dad lit and tossed one of the sticks into the field next to them. There was no real damage but for years if anyone stepped out the back door and hissed loud they could make any triple crown winner look slow by comparison.

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Gunslinger

Phillip
June 28, 2000, 01:41 PM
Hmmm, how about a shell loaded with gummy bears? :)

Futo Inu
June 30, 2000, 03:23 PM
No, on the contrary; if you are risk-averse, it's a very GOOD idea to use less-than-lethal loads for HOME DEFENSE, IF you don't subscribe to the "kill them so they can't testify" school of thought. If you'd be justified in using a lethal load, then you're STILL justified in using a less-than-lethal loads, and you're many times less likely to be made civilly and criminally responsible by doing this, due to the decreased liklihood of serious injury and death. And if you're NOT justified in using deadly force, or it's a marginal call, or you're in an anti-gun jurisdiction, then you're FAR better off both civilly and criminally using less-than-lethal loads. Now, all of the above must be weighed against the EFFECTIVENESS of the load for what you're trying to accomplish (stopping aggression; making a VTA high-tail it out of there)

Dave McC
July 1, 2000, 09:00 AM
Pop was one heck of a guy, I'm truly fortunate.

Re effectiveness...

In a situation requiring desdly force, what ever means is at hand is justified, assuming no bystanders are endangered. And while I kid about breath mints, discretion dictates using something off the shelf down at Gun R US vs those depleted uranium, HP, cyanide coated 000 fletchettes you've been toying with.

Think about criminal charges and civil litigation in a gun hostile venue. While we know that it's a crock,imagine Joe Juryperson hearing you shot the perp with a Rambo Signature Model Louderboomer SP loaded with the above U-235 load vs a Wingmaster and field loads.

My out in the above....

"Sir, this is the shotgun I've used for hunting for 30 years as well as the very make and model I trained with, qualified with,and instructed with for the Md Dept of Public Safety".

Seronac
July 1, 2000, 08:28 PM
Would that be called bearshot / bearload? Would you be shooting a GummiGun? Talk about sweet revenge! ;)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phillip:
Hmmm, how about a shell loaded with gummy bears? :)[/quote]

Harley Nolden
July 2, 2000, 07:19 AM
Gunslinger:
I recall a story about dynamite and my G-Pa:

Seems G-Pa was in the local tavern, Northern, way North, MN bragging about his fishin with d-mite. One evening he was telling how many fish he caught that day and the local game warden overheard him. the Warden commented, I'd like to fish with you one day.

G-Pa agreed and they met the next morning at the specified lake. They left the dock, went to G-pa's favorite spot and anchored.

The warden was commenting that it was illegal to fish with d-mite and that he may want to consider the consequences if he used it. G-Pa lit the fuse, let it burn a mite, then tossed it to the Warden and asked, "you gonna fish or just BS all day?

Guess one could figure out that the warden was also fishin with D-mite, with no place to throw it.


HJN