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Anthony
April 28, 2002, 11:00 AM
Hello Everyone,

I am 32 years old, fairly good shape, and very experienced in the use of firearms, but am now considering the practice of a martial arts. What I am looking for is internal as well as external. I'm not looking for a quick fix seminar, but an art that can become a part of my life. Before starting, I want to hear from some of our experienced board members who practice martial arts...

What martial art do you practice? How long have you studied it?

Why do you personally prefer it to other arts? Why do you feel it is superior?

Is there another art you would like to study as well in the future? Why?

Do you know of any qualified sensi in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?

Thank you for the input.

- Anthony

iluvlabs1
December 6, 2005, 01:56 PM
Hello Anthony,

It's been a while since this you posted, but here goes..

I'm 51. I started MA's when I was 14 or so. Over time, with changes in careers and the need to relocate, I had a chance to experience several.
First, Tae-Kwon-Do (age 14), then Hapkido (age 18), then Shotokan (age 32), then again Tae-Kwon-Do (age 37), then Shodokan (age 39), then finally again Hapkido (age 40+). All had their +/-'s. For what it's worth, the variations learned in Hapkido...punches + kicks + grappling + joint-breaking + takedowns....always seemed the most fun for me.

coolridelude
December 6, 2005, 02:52 PM
Anthony, i am 24 been doing ma since 14. i did a lot of akido and tang soo do, kickboxing, judo, jujuitsu(spelling). they are all fun. what do you want to get out of it?

if you wnat traditional arts go with tangsoodo or kungfu or tkd etc. if you want to defend yourself and kickass then take kickboxing, and mix martial arts fighting. if you take mix martial arts fighting you will learn how to defend yourself. both are good the reason i do the traditional or learn a style is because i want to understand the meaning behind them. i want to know the history about them. what each move symbollyies(spelling). now if you do the fighting systems you will learn to defend yourself a lot faster.

i will be taking boxing so i can get fast with my hands.

Mikeyboy
December 6, 2005, 02:58 PM
I studied Tae Kwon Do, Boxing, Aikido, and a little Judo. I think you need a good combo of striking and grappling, If you can find a school that teaches it take mixed martial arts (combo of kickboxing and judo) or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for self defense. Don't get me wrong, I liked Tae Kwon Do and Aikido, but that is more of the classical martial arts, you learn Katas, you wear a uniform, and it take a long time before your good enough to use it effectively in a street fight. I took a year of Tae Kwon Do when I was a teenager and still wasn't the best fighter. I took 4 one hour self defense classes with a judo instructor and I can basically put almost anybody on the ground that grabs me. While I believe the more classical martial arts training is good for kids, because they learn discipline, learn a new culture, etc, as an adult I would go right for the MMA,"Self Defense" or No-Gi street fighting courses, taught at some judo schools. It's more hands on, and you'll learn your basic punching, kicking, blocking moves pretty quickly (there is punching and kicking in judo) plus you know what to do if someone grabs you an you can't hit him, or is someone is on top of you.

model 25
December 6, 2005, 02:58 PM
I spent alot of time learning from a gentleman by the name of Frank Perry years ago. He was trained in Shotokann to a black belt and the first fight he got into he got his butt kicked big time.

Frank thought that he should look at all ways of fighting so he studied alot of different martial arts and acheived black belts in all he studied. He spent a lifetime learning and practicing martial arts.

Frank came up with a art he called Wu Ying Dao meaning "your own way" He developed around you what you are best at to give you a chance in a fight. He never went into what style is best just into making you able to defend yourself with what you can learn and use.

To increase his knowledge he went to China to study under schools that few Americans would ever get a chance at. First couple of years he came back with knowledge in fighting and fitness that was outstanding. He begain taking students with him to China.

Well Tianin Square happened and he and his students got caught in country and it took a month and alot of crap happened before they got out. The plane they left in had bullet holes in it.

I saw Frank after his adventure and noticed he was carrying a gun everywhere he went ( remember this guy is really good at martial arts) and I asked him why. He said he learned it from his China adventure, he now carries a gun.

My point of view is simple, you can't keep up the physical abilities it takes to be good at the arts but you can remain physicaly fit. I spend the time and money in shooting which I know works for self defense and keep fit enough to always see my belt buckle without a mirror:eek: :eek:

25

bclark1
December 6, 2005, 03:12 PM
drunken boxing. that's a style, right? i reinvented it :p

Mikeyboy
December 6, 2005, 03:30 PM
+1 for Model 25

I think your friend Frank Perry, Bruce Lee, and most of the premier fighters in the UFC learned that you got to master and combine several different styles. You will never be truly intellegent if you focus only on one subject. The reason why I stopped taking Tae Kwon Do was that I took a wicked beating myself. I could not understand it, I could break a board at head level with a roundhouse kick but I could not beat the high school bully? Later I learned it was more mental then physical. I bounced from place to place picking up the skills I need and made them my own.

too many choices!?
December 6, 2005, 03:36 PM
I've got limited training in each of these styles...The grappling has been the most used, and needed throughout my life. I like keys and locks if you get my drift:) ...It's pretty hard to effectively fight with a broken arm, knee, or choke hold applied. Favorites, triangle choke, and rear naked choke. I put two guys down with the rear naked triangle choke over the years, beatiful thing to see the opponent just go to sleep, while wheezing for air:)...

model 25
December 6, 2005, 03:37 PM
Differing body types means too much time and effort will be wasted learning moves you will never use in a fight. You wear out your body for nothing and with age your joints will remind you how stupid a night of a thousand kicks was.

Your body grows old but your trigger finger will work good enough for a long time:D :D

25

coolridelude
December 6, 2005, 03:42 PM
my instructor had different black belts. he is a 5 degree in tangsoodo. a second degree blackbelt in akido, and black belt in kungfu. and he learned pressure points from someone. he taught us the traditional way to preserve the arts but he did have another class to his students that had the maturity to understand what he was showing and that is could really hurt people. he taught us where to use pressure points. ground fighting. i lot of everything to be well mixed. and we would sparr against boxers and such. to develop our skills. he would show us pressure points, and at the same time deminstrate on us how it feels. if he showed us a choke he would choke us so that we can understand that what you are doing can be dangerous. i loved it. if we did not understand to concept or if some were not metally prepared then he would not show them.

coolridelude
December 6, 2005, 03:46 PM
he toomany, i love chokes too.:eek:

i have gotten people in an armbar before. if i am out numbered for some reason or another i will be kicking groans and knee caps.:eek:

i have used my flashlight 6in maglight to many times.:D

i have had some training in kali so i am alright with the escrima.

azredhawk44
December 6, 2005, 04:01 PM
I'm 27.

I have studied karate (shotokan) since I was 12 years old.

For about 2 years, I did some cross-training with a good friend in aikido and jiu-jitsu.

Between all that and the realization that I can't dodge a bullet (yet :p ) and a reliable handgun, I feel pretty good about my prospects for self defense. Haven't had to test it out, yet, either, which means I am using the best weapon I've got - my brain.

Twycross
December 6, 2005, 04:10 PM
Q. What martial art do you practice? How long have you studied it?

A. I have studied Kenpo Karate mixed with Thai Kickboxing for about 4.5 years, and discontinued training a few months ago when school and work butted it out of the schedule. I did gain my black belt just before I had to stop.

Q. Why do you personally prefer it to other arts? Why do you feel it is superior?

A. I have limited experience in other arts, but from what I have seen, I like kenpo/kickboxing because
a) It seem to be a down-to-earth practical street art, but that was probably due in large to my the way my instructor (ex-army) taught it.
b) I don't have the body mass to be much good on the ground, so stand-up styles are better suited to me.

Q. Is there another art you would like to study as well in the future? Why?

A. I really like the little taste of Philipino stick fighting I got.

Q. Do you know of any qualified sensi in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?

A. Sorry, but no.

porkskin
December 6, 2005, 04:15 PM
stay away from tae kwon do, also known as mc dojo's to those of us in the know. you could have EVERYTHING you needed with a highschool wrestling base and some real boxing lessons( read contact). in lieu of the wrestling base, which i do not have, you need either brazillian jiu jitsu or judo. if you can find it, russian sombo is good to. avoid any art that is not represented in the ultimate fighting championship. thai boxing, full contact kickboxing, bjj, western boxing, and judo. all others are suspect and not proven in the real crucible.

FireBreather01
December 6, 2005, 04:46 PM
Studied Tae Kwon Do, boxing, and some Aikido. I pretty much agree with the others that recommend boxing and grappling/wrestling. A good boxer can pretty much take care of business against most very good martial artists and a good wrestler can probably take care of either, in my experience. I would start with boxing or kick-boxing and mix it up with some wrestling and different wrist/elbow/head locks. Most fights seem to degenerate to on-the-floor/ground-wrestling struggles so it is a good idea to get a few tricks up your sleeve to deal with that. The basics of boxing and wrestling will give you a lot of tools and confidence to deal with most any situation.

Watch the "Tough-Man" or "Extreme Fighting" contests on ESPN or TBS and it is amazing how nearly every one of those fights end up on the mat, in spite of the strengths of the combatants being boxing, kicking, or black belt this or that.

Your most important asset is your mental atttitude and determination - never, never, never quit - keep fighting and keep moving no matter what. What I have mainly learned from street fights and formal training is that I will now only get into a fight only if I'm absolutely forced into it without any other choice. And if I do, I'm in it to win any way I can - I will break bones, choke-out, scratch, bite, poke eyes, - whatever I have to. Basically I would end up in a fight only if either jumped or in fear of my life and without my gun. If I have my gun, then it would already have been out because I was in fear of my life.

kymasabe
December 6, 2005, 05:41 PM
Krav Maga

DTakas
December 6, 2005, 05:58 PM
Jiu Jitsu is an excellent choice. I was into it 3 days a week for two hours a session for 2-3 years. My particular class drilled and learned new technique for the first half of the class and the other half was always spend in actual matches. The more hands on you get with any art the better. Any kind of grappling is good since most real fights wind up on the ground. It is easily integrated with other arts, and needs to be since it doesn't involve any real striking. If you learn something like kick boxing which teaches you how to deliver some good hits with the ability to control a fight that a good grappling background gives, then you will be a force to be reckoned with. If you want to know what works look at the UFC. You will find that for years grapplers dominated the sport and it took along time for other fighters to learn if they wanted to win they would have to integrate grappling into their arts. Also a lot of the joint locks and chokes are excellent for inducing submission or you can kick it up a notch and actually cause some serious damage in situation that dictates the use of more force. In today’s society it’s important to be able to use only the minimum amount of force necessary to achieve the desired result. You don’t really want to throw some wicked move on a guy and kill him when he won’t stop hassling your wife, just subdue him.

Duxman
December 6, 2005, 06:30 PM
Anthony,

Those are excellent questions - but to find the perfect fit for you - you need to tell us:

What is the primary purpose of the martial art you wish to study?
(Self defense, keep in shape, suppliment CCW)

How much time are you willing to devote to practice?

Do you prefer hard or soft style? (Hard = Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do - aggressive, attacking styles vs. Soft = Tai chi, Aikido - reactive, defensive martial art)

Personally I have been studying the martial arts since I was 13 - (24 years now) Muay Thai kickboxing, Western Kickboxing, Boxing, Tang Soon Doo, Aikido, Tai Chi, Chinese Boxing, Judo, Kendo.

To find a good instructor - make sure they participate fully in the sport, and get good recommendations. Those that "save" themselves because they are too good for their students - skip them.:eek:

Twycross
December 6, 2005, 06:45 PM
Hopefully Anthony has found a good MA and instructor by now.

coolridelude
December 6, 2005, 06:53 PM
Twycross, i hope so i just say the date. back in 2002

too many choices!?
December 6, 2005, 10:09 PM
Well Tae Kwon Do, was my first style I worked on, and it taught basic foot work, blocking high and low attacks while moving/ countering, and how to ,"roundhouse kick", the hell out of anything 5'6 or lower. I could kick at a commanded height on call at 12 or so. My dad would work with me in the yard in the grass by placing his hand at a different heights and I was expected to kick to the commanded height, with as much force as my little body could muster. By the time I got proficient, dad got tired of me damn near breaking his hand:D. Boxing is a no brainer, as I wanted to punch as hard as I could kick. I know physically impossible, but I like the idea...Last when I turned about 16, and had a few scraps under my belt, I realized 90% of the fights that did not end decisively with the first blows, tended to go to the ground. Makes sense to be able to unlock, and lock different,'grapples", and throws...Hapkido is sweet but takes a while to become proficient at it. The Brazilian Jiujitsu is all about,"less flash, and more kick ass":D ...I have a very limited knowlege of basic throws too. What can I say, since I could walk I was a belligerent, bellicose, little SOB;).

too many choices!?
December 6, 2005, 10:17 PM
Now that is some serious ass whipin' in that ART...'Nuff said!!!;)

Blackwater OPS
December 7, 2005, 03:23 AM
It has already been said, but this is the most practical of the arts I have studied.

Topthis
December 7, 2005, 04:35 AM
Spent the better part of my life studying Martial Arts. I have studied many different styles and have taught for over 10 years. What I have come to realize is that once someone starts placing definitives on anything, they have lost their way. Saying that any style is superior over another is absolutely ridiculous, Shotokan is widely thought of as one of the most ineffective combat styles of Martial Arts...I have had the privilege of studying with Ozawa...when alive, I would have dared anyone to enter into a life and death match with him. Also, Tae Kwon Do is far from a cookie cutter style, if you have that impression, then you have not spent any time examining the style...I have known some men who had relied on that style in real combat and have taken lives using it, most people think that TKD is kicking and yelling, "those in the know" would be experienced with the arm and joint locks, throws, grappling, chops and tearing techniques that make it a truley formidable art. I have spent time in Krav Maga, to me it was more useful as a conditioning class than a fighting class...though I am not knocking the style at all, many of the people in the class were very competent fighters. I am really impressed with the Mixed MA stuff that is gaining popularity, though I have noticed some very important weakness, many times there wasn't enough time to exploit them. By far, my favorite styles were the traditional Chinese Kung (Gung) Fu, the Forms or Sets were extremely enjoyable to perform. Hung Gar is usually combined with Choy Li Fut to create a really formidable style and it is really fun to learn. Wow...sorry for the long post.

porkskin
December 7, 2005, 08:22 AM
ridgehand strike-crap, cresent kick-crap, backfist-mostly crap, hook kick-crap. they(tae kwon do) don't even throw round house kicks with full body power and kicking to the legs is not allowed. this is one step sparring false sense of security crap. try a 3 rd smoker at my muay thai school and see if you don't have to scrap that stuff just to survive. think about this,there are probably 20,000 tae kwon do blackbelts in the us. it takes a minimum of 2-3 years to get your first belt promotion in brazillian jiu jitsu. oh yeah, and tae kwon do has 12 and 13 year olds whose mothers are dropping them off wearing the black belts the got in 2&1/2 years. that said not everyone has access to a grappling art. if you do not have bjj, judo, or a wrestling club, then a martial art is better than nothing. but let's not kid ourselves about superior arts.

porkskin
December 7, 2005, 08:24 AM
it is not crazy to say one style is superior over another. go rent the very first ultimate fighting championship. they pitted exclusive style against style. royce gracie at 170 lbs used pure brazillian jiu jitsu to beat everyone. facts don't lie

Supertac
December 7, 2005, 11:55 AM
Well, BJJ was king for awhile. Now if you don't have mixed martial arts, you're dead. Most great fighters have a ground game...BJJ and classic wrestling. You must also have a standing game....mui thai kickboxing or classic boxing.

I am very proficient in basic BJJ, but my stand up is in need of work. I say "basic" BJJ because there's much to learn still. I actually trained with the "Gracie revolution" here in Kalifornia from 1998-2000. I say basic because if I told them I was really good, they would tear me to shreds. :)

Supertac
December 7, 2005, 12:00 PM
it is not crazy to say one style is superior over another. go rent the very first ultimate fighting championship. they pitted exclusive style against style. royce gracie at 170 lbs used pure brazillian jiu jitsu to beat everyone. facts don't lie

It may be crazy only to a certain extent.

Mui Thai vs BJJ: who wins?

Depends on if the fight hit the ground or not.


However you are mostly right porkskin... Most martial arts are worthless in real life..many others only work sometimes in certain situations. :)

kungfucowboy
December 7, 2005, 12:22 PM
i personal have studdied wing tsun, aikido and kenjutsu, i dinked around with bjj and a couple of other kungfu styles.

of thoose the one that will teach you to defend yourself the best was wing tsun. we learned a lot of eye-gouges and other "cheap shots" on top of normal strikes and low kicks. from what i seen of krav maga there are a few similarities. wing tsun also tends to be very close range.

aikido is more complex you can definately defend your self with it if you are good enough but gaining the nessacay ballance and feeling to perform the techuniques can take a long time.

from my experince with bjj i would have to say it is a great 1 on 1 art but if theyguy you are rolling around with has a friend to start kicking your head in while you are on the ground with the other guy you are screwed. not saying it's a bad art just pointing out limitations.

mixed martial arts from my experince seem to focus on over powering an opponent with strength and stamina. they tend for focus on a cage style UFC type of fighting with rules (no biting, no groin strikes, no kicking on the ground) i found that limiting from a self denese aspect.

so in my opinion if you want a sport Judo/bjj, karate, TKD, MMA are the way to go (bjj and MMA being more useful in a fight of the 4 IMO)

if you want to achive enlightenment and be an awsome fighter in about 10-20yrs learn aikido, tai ji, trditional kungfu

to learn to defend yourself i would sugest Wing tsun, kali, Krav maga or some other art that teaches you to fight to live, since unless it's a life or death situation you shouldn't be fighting anyway

Jeeper
December 7, 2005, 12:40 PM
I have studied quite a few different styles and the one thing I got from all of them is YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY SPAR AND FIGHT!

Someone could spend years of studying and it be worthless if they have never actually taken a real punch. I would put a boxer against pretty much anyone in most situtations because they actually get hit. Kickboxing is a good way to do this since you spend time sparring and not dancing around doing kata's. If I ever get into it again then I am not going to go to a school that has a "moves checklist" that you need to complete to get belts. I will look for some place that does ground fighting and a lot of sparring.

Harley Quinn
December 7, 2005, 12:55 PM
Of late I believe the martial art that is going to be very avaliable to persons is the Dan Inosanto groups. I like all of them they are very good and give lots of information. You must follow it up at a school that teachs it of else use home videos.

Check it out at MNKALI.com good stuff. Rick Faye is very good.

Harley

20cows
December 7, 2005, 01:47 PM
I've been studying Aikido for about eight years. I still have lot to learn, but it's already useful.

My class is less formal than the traditional schools and we do work with the idea of what is practical over what is "artful." We have also picked up a few techniques from other arts as new students joined the class with experience in other forms.

Whatever works.

Blackwater OPS
December 7, 2005, 02:45 PM
Jeeper +1 Sparring is definitely key. In actual physical combat for your life you will not remember anything, instinct and, hopefully, training takes over. You need sparring to put this in the spot in our brain that will help you in fight. This will allow you to act without thinking, it has happened to me and it still amazes me. Also I forgot to add that Krav Maga is good because it includes many disarming drills (vs. gun/Knife) and it also has a ground moves.

Twycross
December 7, 2005, 03:34 PM
Someone could spend years of studying and it be worthless if they have never actually taken a real punch.
+2. If you keep it all theoretical, but never try your hand at the actual thing, you may as well have done something else with your time. The sparring is where it all comes together and becomes real. It's where you train your instincts so that when the SHTF, you don't have to spend half your time thinking about how to react at each new swing. In a fight between your typical martial artist and a boxer, both being of roughly equal training, I too would put my money on the boxer. He is going to know how to fight instinctively, and how to take a hit.

porkskin
December 7, 2005, 04:23 PM
brazillian jiu-jitsu features sparing on the ground with ACTIVE resistance every class. no mc dojo can come close with their "one-step" girlie point sparring.

coolridelude
December 7, 2005, 05:21 PM
i use to love sparring. i have had my left shoulder dislocated and my left knee. i just did not want to give up, then i tapped.:(

when i would teach self defense or rape prevention you would feel like it was happening. i would teach them first that what ever you learn if not practice is useless. some would freeze, but after a while when i attacked them they would just react and kick me in the b***!. i had a cup but it still hurt. the parents thought i was too rough with their kids. when their kids were attacked once then one of the parents came in an told me thanks.

mjolnir
December 7, 2005, 07:52 PM
They're all crap.

I challenge any of you to go down to your local zoo and get in the cage with a gorilla or a lion. Any of you who can apply kotegaeshi to a gorilla or can kick-box a lion off you...leave the planet, YOU'RE NOT HUMAN.

The reason you're helpless against them is STRENGTH. Until gene therapy arrives, and you can take a gorilla-muscle-gene pill that alters your musculature/skeletal structure in a few months (without the side effects...protruding brow, 20" inseam pants, sudden cravings for banana cream pie...etc.), martial arts are just a waste of time...for defensive purposes.

For the amount of time expended you get a tiny comparative advantage against other humans. Which is the reason guns are so popular around the world...for minimum expenditure of money, time, and energy you gain a huge advantage against other humans. Until they get their own. Hence, war.

All funnin' aside, martial arts are FUN. But the outcome of any real fight would depend not so much on one's particular art, but on one's physical attributes (reflex speed, athleticism/coordination/agility, etc.) and mental fortitude...and CHANCE.

kungfucowboy
December 7, 2005, 09:37 PM
the analogy with animals makes no sense. martial arts were developed for use agianst humans. your hand gun (unless you regularly carry a 454 casull or 500 s&w magnum) is not likely to kill a lion very well either should no one cary a side arm?

of course martial arts are not a substitute for a gun

as for martialarts taking a lot of time thats true. i'm not claiming that by taking xyz martialart you will be able to kick everyone in te worlds ass. you will definately have a better chance at surviving an attack. you mention
any real fight would depend not so much on one's particular art, but on one's physical attributes (reflex speed, athleticism/coordination/agility, etc.) and mental fortitude
in the martial arts i have practiced the techniques and forms were designed to develop theese skill. since i started martial arts every one of the things you mention have improved from before i started learning martial arts.

Harley Quinn
December 7, 2005, 11:02 PM
Bananas, are especially good now that you mention it. The neanderthal was a very robust guy I wonder if he liked Bananas?

I believe to spar with the idea that making contact and checking out your chin is very foolish. Look at the good to great fighters that spar and really don't know if they can take a punch, foolish if you are looking for injury. Some contact is fine, but being in good physcial shape is the best.

I disgust (sp on purpose) this with someone the other day at the dojo. In the service they never asked me to take a bayonet thrust to the stomach to see if I could handle it, or a butt stroke to the face to see if I would be able to get up. Some contact is fine but we need to be in shape first so that you can go the 5 minutes it takes to get you through the fight rather than being out of shape and not completing it.

Harley

lokisbuddy
December 8, 2005, 12:04 AM
ivve been studying dim-mak (death point striking) for 3 years now and i must say if your looking for something to incapacitate someone as well as daily excercises i would recomend this but as i am quite a noob at the art i would expect you to take my opinion with a grain of salt:)

model 25
December 8, 2005, 02:23 AM
Martial arts are good for keeping fit as long as the repiticions don't wear out your joints. Sparing is good as long as you don't permanately injure yourself to the point that you have thrown away your years of training, it happens.

Funny we think we must spar to be good at martial arts but we won't even go compete with our guns, at least the majority won't. Matches bring out in you what sparing does to the arts. Adrenalin,pressure,self confidence all get pushed to the limit when you try to do your best against like minded people.

Being able to compare your skills with others and seeing where you need to work to be better is one of the most important things in all you do. Want confidence then beat others at shooting.

25

CelticMP
December 12, 2005, 05:48 PM
I began with Jeet Kun Do (Bruce Lee's original style) for 7 yrs and moved into Judo for the grappling. I found that knowing either of these Martial Arts will help you out in a fight even especially if the fight isnt of your choosing. but when you have a glass jaw like mine, it really doesnt do you any good. Thats why I now study American Ching Chang BooM:D

azredhawk44
December 12, 2005, 05:58 PM
It's been about 5 years since I lived in the DFW area...

There is a US highway on the NE side of Dallas (US 75 IIRC) that heads up towards Allen, Plano, McKinney...

I <think> it was off of Belt Line Rd, on the East side of the highway in a strip mall. It was a traditional Sh!toRyu Karate school. (The auto-editor removed the "fecal" reference in this Japanese word...how funny!)

It was in a business park, not a strip mall or anything. I can't remember the name of the instructor. I only lived there for about 6 months ...:)

They were respectful, thorough, good natured and fun to be around. Anything else is up to the student.

delta58
December 12, 2005, 08:44 PM
A good understanding of human anatomy and a combination of stength training(especially hand strength) flexibility training, and a strong will to survive.

.351winchester
January 9, 2006, 01:16 AM
I'm a huge fan of MMA. The style I'd like to train in is San Shou (Kickboxing/MT w/ takedowns) which is pretty much the whole Sprawl and Brawl style of fighting-everything you need for standup, combined with submission wrestling or shootfighting.
Unfortunately the only thing around this area is karate (if it was Kyokushin Karate I'd be all over it, but it's some useless form), so I just try and learn as much as I can from instructional tapes

roberts_usmc
January 9, 2006, 01:56 AM
I like MCMAP:
Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. You don't really have the ability to study it unless you have a friend that has more recently gotten out or is still in. It's a mix of a few different arts with a combat twist. You've got some strikes, chokes, counters, and joint manipulations/breaks. I love it.

riverkeeper
January 9, 2006, 02:30 AM
Got a black in Judo over 40 years ago but do not do it anymore--my version was too sportified to be REALLY useful IMO. Considering Wing Chun when it moves to my part of town in a month or two.

NDTerminator
January 9, 2006, 06:25 AM
I'm a 48 year old LEO with nearly 30 years on the street. I hold instructor certs in essentially all phases of patrol and tactical LE skills, and lead & train a High Risk Entry Team.
My primary training focus is Defensive Tactics, and God alone knows how many officers I've trained at both the State Academy and Peace Officer Training Program in the last 20 years.

Unlike the usual current LEO DE Instructor, who goes through a week of PPCT and proudly proclaims himself an Instructor/Expert, I have an old school mentality about this field.

IMO, it takes years of martial arts training honed by street experience, before a LEO can attain the experience and credibility to train others.

My background is Jujitsu & Judo. My primary art is Goshin Budo Jujitsu (I've also adopted much of the Small Circle techniques, as they lend themselves so well to real world combat). I hold the rank of Nidan (2nd degree black belt) in this form. This indicates I'm a pretty good student of the form, not an expert. My instructor (who is my ex-partner and highest ranking non-japanese in the form) tells me I'll be pretty good in another 20 years or so.

Judo is a sport more so than a combat martial art, which, like wrestling, can be adapted for the street. What Judo really teaches the self defense minded is how to read an opponent's balance, how to unbalance him, and take advantage of it.

Jujitsu really shines as a pure combat art, and few martial artists will argue this. My form is about 40% takedowns, 40% throws, 10% locks, and 10% strikes. After a few years of training, it's amazing how effective this type of system is in the real world. A big advantage is that the wide selection of techniques combined with measured aplication of force allows the student to control and negate an opponent without injuring him, unless it needs to be done.

I cannot even guess how many physical arrests, tactical situations, and self defense situations I've dealt with using Jujitsu skills over the years, but they certainly numbers in the several hundreds. Take my word for it, out on the street, Jujitsu works.

A side but not inconsequential benefit of any of the throwing forms is that the student learns to take a fall without being injured. I cannot tell you how many times this skill, which becomes second nature anytime the student leaves his/her feet, has saved me from injury not just on the street, but in the slips & falls over everyday life...

The British Soldier
January 9, 2006, 08:40 AM
The best martial art is the double kick to the balls! Two good ones and you'll be using your black belt to wrap around the ice pack.

BlueTrain
January 9, 2006, 09:50 AM
I tend to agree with the comment about boxers. They do train with sparring partners and the punches are real, unlike in martial arts matches, at least as far as I know. Naturally, there is more to it than that.

Pure strength matters a great deal. It is on this point that I disagree with the army's current physical training idea. It would seem to be intended to produce marathon runners when you would want a soldier needs to be more like a football player. Now there is another individual who knows about body contact!

Another thing is that we now have a generation that grew up insulated in a hothouse environment or most did anyway. Getting into a fight with other boys (I assume girls never fight) would get you thrown in jail. When I was little there was a lot of fighting between boys (in my neighborhood, anyway). No one ever got shot, because guns weren't as common as they seem to be now, but cuts and bruises were an everyday thing. It wasn't so much your ability as it was your willingness to fight that mattered. Being able to put up with a little temporary pain helped, especially when the other boys were bigger. Otherwise, you live your life being afraid of everyone and everything.

MartinR
January 9, 2006, 11:10 AM
I've studied Karate, Judo, TKD, BJJ, and a little basic boxing and Mui Thai over the past 20 years. I consider the arts that utilize a RESISTING OPPONENT to be the most effective for self defense (not common in most Karate, TKD, or Kung Fu schools). However, most CAN be good for getting/staying in shape.

I currently study Judo. You definitely learn quickly if your throws, matwork, chokes, etc. are up to par. Also, my instructor is top notch - not just an accomplished competitor but also a great coach (that is an important factor in considering the school you attend). Granted, we rarely practice striking, but I think that can easily be incorporated into practice. IMHO it is a reasonable balance between safe practice and effective self defence (as one ages, the body recovers slower and slower and that is a choice one must make).

Derius_T
January 9, 2006, 11:48 AM
I took TKD when I was a little bugger. As I got older, I took Muay Thai. Not very well known around here, but extremely lethal. Now that I'm old and broken, I practice "Club-Beat-Down", and "Semi-Auto-Shootis" most exclusively.....:D

Para Bellum
January 9, 2006, 03:58 PM
...or a modern variant thereof. It's the most comprehensive no-nonsense system. Punching, Kicking, Grappling, twisting joints, balance etc. Works.

How I come to say that? after 22 years of TaeKwonDo, Kickboxing, Boxing, Judo and - finally - a modern Jiu-Jitsu variant (ATK (http://www.atk.at/)) that's just my humble opinion.

tshadow6
January 9, 2006, 04:12 PM
The best martial art is the one you can practise regulary. By that pick a dojo or kwoon that is close to you. Make sure the instructor has some real experience, pro kickboxing, tournaments, etc. Retired cops, military would have the real world experience. Ignore the guy who claims his system is the best in the world for everybody. look for regular sparring along with self defense. I studied Ishinryu Karate for 2.5 years before I had a real world fight. the sparring I did came in handy.

geneinnc
January 9, 2006, 06:14 PM
My body is shot from degenerative joint problems, so I practice the 48ounce trigger pull method.:eek:

MikeOrick
January 12, 2006, 01:36 PM
I wrestled and boxed in high school, college, and the military.

Along the way I have practiced some Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, and Tai Chi.

What has been most useful for real are the dirty tricks my father/uncles taught me...

They all have recreational and practical sides. They all work if you work them right. They can all fail if you screw them up. ;)

Love&Hate12
January 13, 2006, 06:52 AM
Hey guys.

I study hard with Systema, American Hand to Hand combat and Ninjitsu

I also have dabbled with Judo and Kickboxing/Boxing.

I would reccomend military and special forces styles of fighting to anyone for street defense.

Have a good day fellas.

DiplomaticBlackHawk
January 14, 2006, 11:20 PM
I have studied a few arts but Akido and Bushido
"true hagakure based " are MY LIFE and have been since i was 6 yrs old. I wake with the soul intent to live in this way.many arts are interesting but a few take total devotion and exceptance.

exprt9
January 15, 2006, 05:12 PM
None actually interests me except for Gun-fu. Opponent goes keeyaah! My gun goes bang! End of confrontation! LOL!

KNJoe
January 15, 2006, 05:27 PM
I know it's not a very orthodox first post, but oh well...

I should probably point out that most of those systems you people are discussing are SPORTS, and although the term 'martial art' does condone the mention of art forms, these have little to no practical aptitude. The presence of a COMBAT art is very rare in the modern atmosphere.

There are very few exceptions; ju-jitsu maintains some semblance of reality, but only if taught in a very abnormal setting. Gung Fo lacks in practicality much of the time, as although the proper teaching methodology concerns more conceptual identity than physical antics, in all the years I have been in the United States not once have i found any 'dojo' that applied it properly.
The mention of drunken boxing was also brought up, and although this may be cosmetically humurous, it far outsrips and systematically taught 'martial art.' Its mere inherent properties dictate that there be no system of movements, no kata, no pronounced specification. It is based on the idea that an unpredictable strike is more sure than a predictable one.
Krav Maga is NOT a compliation of other martial arts; it is application of practical ideas. So are the combative methods utilised by SEALS, which I would far more reccomend one checking out (personal experience).

If you've read to this point, you're either in full agreement of what I am saying, you're only doing it to laugh at what seems as arrogance and presumption, or you don't understand what I'm trying to say and are still working on figuring that out.
Someone earlier in the thread said this:

"of course martial arts are not a substitute for a gun"

That statement is CRAP. Any true combat art (note I didn't say 'martial art') integrates a gun; they are not only just as practical a weapon as any other in society, but are the second most socially integrated weapon we deal with at all.

The best martial art based on the principle or COMBAT PRACTICALITY I have found is Ninjutsu. Although it was mentioned earlier, it wasn't elaborated on any, and was mispelled as well. In fact, systems most special forces use (including the Mossad and SEALS) are simply derivative Ninjutsu, but taught by people who haven't studied their whole lives.
Any of you who don't know what that is, go look it up. Anyone who can't distinguish the romantic CRAP they'll find from reality probably has no business doing any such thing, and because of that, I'm not going to delve into it.



So, based on all that... My favorite Martial Art for athletic purposes is Brazilian Nin-Jutsu... And for actual combative purposes, it's the use of a high-powered rifle at a few hundred yards.
Ecprt9 has precisely the right idea; and it is on that pretense that any combat art is taught.


P.S. LoveandHate12, I'm currently bouncing about the country a bit, and wouldn't mind locating a few more dojos. What part of the country are you in?

And, although it's off-topic... I have found no sub-forums specific to CCW. Is this purposeful? Is it something that's going to be remedied? Or am I simply being daft in my inability to find it?




*edit* Twycross, thank you for the welcome.
I understand the initial use of that statement earlier in the thread. I also agree that Mjolnir made an unrelated, and seemingly pointless statement, and that it was appropriate to rebuttle it. I haven't mentioned anything from Mjolnir (I think that's his name) because I couldn't get my finger on a pointed and intellectual theme in his post. As Kungfucowboy had allocated his own in a civil and discernable manner, I could appropriately quote him.

The fact that he thinks of martial arts and guns along different and uncongruent planes was NOT, however, taken out of context. I think you misread what he said. He stated this quite plainly, in fact in a different paragraph entirely, so it was hardly taken out of context. His entire statement was exclusively 'of course martial arts are not a substitute for a gun.' It was with this statement alone i argued, as I agreed with everything else he said. Perhaps the miscommunication on our part is my own inability to correctly convey WHY I disagreed?

And would you please answer my question about the CCW subforum ;)

Twycross
January 15, 2006, 07:15 PM
1). Welcome to TFL! :)

2). I can't let this one go:

Someone earlier in the thread said this:

"of course martial arts are not a substitute for a gun"

That statement is CRAP. Any true combat art (note I didn't say 'martial art') integrates a gun;
I believe you are referring to kungfucowboy's post (#38). You have taken his statement out of context. It was part of a refutation of a poor analogy, and in the context of fighting animals.

Trapp
January 15, 2006, 08:39 PM
I like Mexican Judo.......


Judo no know if I gotta Knife....
Judo no know if I gotta gun....
Judo no if I gotta chain....

Samuel2001
January 16, 2006, 04:02 AM
+1 GUN FU:D

I try to practice it at least tree times a month, some times more.

trigger happy
January 16, 2006, 02:07 PM
Gun Fu :D

pickpocket
January 16, 2006, 02:13 PM
I know KARATE....





And three other Japanese words :D

Mastrogiacomo
January 16, 2006, 02:20 PM
Wing Chun - it's simple, it works, and no flash. :)

Love&Hate12
January 16, 2006, 08:43 PM
Knjoe - Central Florida.

McBrideGuns
January 16, 2006, 09:05 PM
i have studdied 3 types of the arts and the most effective in my openion is hopkido ofcoures being in a wheelchair i had to study something that delbt with being on the ground since most likely that's where i would have ended up anyway but in my openion it really depends on your situation as to which you should study

steven

Onebum
January 16, 2006, 10:47 PM
My preferred martial art...hmm...pablo picasso was great at it, and i'm into oil on canvas...though I do love a nice pen and ink, and sea scapes are my favorite.



does this post make me a twit? I think it does.

FirstFreedom
January 16, 2006, 11:27 PM
whichever one helps me pull my gun quickly, engage my gun on target, hang onto my gun, shoot my gun, and failing that, pull my knife, use my knife, hang onto my knife .... I don't fight fair. I guess that's "Gun Fu", like they said. :) Being in good shape is important, too however.

Lloyd Smale
January 17, 2006, 04:22 AM
no opinion on whats best i studied Tang So Do and Soo Bahk Do and enjoyed both.

Weeg
January 17, 2006, 05:18 AM
I'm surprised no one has quoted that lethal style known as "Ching-chang-Bang"...


:rolleyes: :D

USNavy_233
January 17, 2006, 07:09 PM
I take Krav Maga, haven't been doing it all that long but I can say without hesitation that it is a very practical Fighting Art. It covers but stand-up and groundwork. The groundwork puts an emphasis on getting back to your feet quickly and affectively. The stand-up emphasizes ending the fight quickly and affectively. As for a studio in the DFW area (which BTW, I don't think I saw a single person mention) check here:
http://www.kravmagadfw.com/

chemist308
January 18, 2006, 12:10 AM
April 2002....wth

Redworm
January 18, 2006, 03:21 PM
martial arts are just a waste of time...for defensive purposes.:confused: Then why does the United States Marine Corps require that every Marine qualify the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program?

To think that carrying a gun is good enough as self defense is as silly as thinking martial arts alone is good enough for self defense. Your gun will be completely useless if you're snuck up on and can't draw it or even worse if it's taken from you.

To the original poster: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/info/schoolguide.php

Couple of good tips there in choosing a school once you've picked out a style. I don't know about your area but some are saturated with McDojos and Bullshido studios. Be wary of any instructor that touts his system as "the most effective in the world". Even the Gracies haven't won every fight they've ever been in.

I'm currently thinking of signing up with www.ohanama.com which seems like a good mix of useful styles. In the 16 years I've been studying martial arts, the one I studied in Florida which combined four systems of kung fu seemed like by far the most effective. Sample as many as you can. Even Tae Kwon Do can be useful; not as a combat art but it certainly works the cardiovascular system and keeps one in shape.

I'd like to try out silat, krav maga, and capoeira sometime in the future.


I'm surprised no one has quoted that lethal style known as "Ching-chang-Bang"...
I prefer the deadly and mysterious Pha Kew Upp :cool:

pickpocket
January 18, 2006, 04:03 PM
I like to throw up on people who have me in a choke hold... after that I get down on all fours and bite their achilles tendon...

:D

Onebum
January 18, 2006, 04:49 PM
Keep it up folks, this is a great thread that is both funny and educational...basically its a good after school movie. Of course i don't think there ever was a good after school movie...anyway.

After having 40+ surgeries, and i'm only 26, I'm limited of course but i've been looking into martial arts classes ever since I got kicked out of my interpretive dance class. Ya'll have given me good info, thanks. Even more important ya'll have given me a few new one liners, and I am a man that loves his one liners.

I gotta tell ya, ya'll are some funny folks. I love puns and witty comments and it's awfully rare to see them in the gun forums...but there's plenty in this thread. I'm gonna copy some of them too, of course I won't give credit.

Onebum
January 18, 2006, 04:50 PM
If anyone can, please let me know a source that I can compare forms of martial arts to see whats best for me. I'm looking into the link posted for kung pu magazine, but if anyone has any other links please let me know.

Actually, several of you seem very knowledgeable, perhaps a few of you could discuss the goods and bads with me in another thread, in another forum of course. Lemmie know if any of ya'll are willing to help a fella out, either PM or on here.

USNavy_233
January 18, 2006, 08:50 PM
For the sake of comparison:

http://www.martial-way.com/

http://www.atlantamartialarts.com/styles/

That should give everyone a few options to thumb through.

mjolnir
January 18, 2006, 11:21 PM
I understand the initial use of that statement earlier in the thread. I also agree that Mjolnir made an unrelated, and seemingly pointless statement, and that it was appropriate to rebuttle it. I haven't mentioned anything from Mjolnir (I think that's his name) because I couldn't get my finger on a pointed and intellectual theme in his post.


I'll make it easier for you:

...martial art no work on animal cause human too weak. So, martial art only work on other human if you faster, stronger. So, just use gun. Still, martial art plenty fun.

I believe you are referring to kungfucowboy's post (#38). You have taken his statement out of context. It was part of a refutation of a poor analogy, and in the context of fighting animals.

Main Entry: anal·o·gy
Pronunciation: &-'na-l&-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
1 : inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will prob. agree in others
2 a : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY b : comparison based on such resemblance

That wasn't an analogy.

KNJoe
January 19, 2006, 12:02 AM
Mjolnir, you are tiresome. You also fail to crasp the subtle arts of syllables, phonetic distinguants, and silence.


Onebum, the bestway to find more about 'which is best for you' is to simply become involved in it.
Grab a phone book; look up all the martial arts with really cool names. Note; if you don't think the names cool, you probably wont stick with it too long ;) Call a bunch of them and find out when you can head down there. The best time to 'head down there' is right then, procrastination is boring. Become involved in something that looks cool. It is extremely unlikely that you will stumble on anything truly PRACTICAL immediately, and anything you find initially you probably won't stick with... So 'looking cool' is a good enough characteristic to judge by.
Converse with your newfound contacts concerning what you find interesting, or would be interested in, what you need in a martial art, what you don't want, et cetera. After all, you can get a bit out of magazines and such, but it's easier (and more fun) to pick the brains of the sorts who have been doing it for decades. You'll be much more likely to find something that meets your preferential balance of practicality and athleticism.

You'll also quickly learn to distinguish a MARTIAL ART with a COMBAT SYSTEM. This is probably something you should know well enough. Some people are unhappy with their martial arts for years and years, because what they were looking for was a combat system and didn't know it. I've never heard of this working the other way, probably because combat systems are so rarely taught nowadays, and are inherently outside the public's eye, thus fairly difficult to locate in the first place.

Twycross
January 19, 2006, 02:41 AM
have found no sub-forums specific to CCW. Is this purposeful? Is it something that's going to be remedied? Or am I simply being daft in my inability to find it?
There is no CCW-specific forum here at TFL. That's really all of your question that I can answer, and if you want more info than that, you should talk to a mod.

Redworm
January 19, 2006, 10:02 AM
...martial art no work on animal cause human too weak. So, martial art only work on other human if you faster, stronger. So, just use gun. Still, martial art plenty fun.

Depends on the animal. But martial arts have rarely been developed to combat animals. The self defense aspect is almost always assumed to be self defense against humans. To bring fighting against animals into this is...pointless?

Martial arts do not only work when you're faster and stronger. In fact much of the point of martial arts is the same as guns; it provides an equalizer for those with less physical prowess to use technique and skill against superior strength and speed. Anyone who believes that the stronger and faster guy always wins has never heard of the Gracie family.

As far as just using a gun...not everyone can carry a gun wherever they go. In my state I can't carry at all. Even if you're the best shot in the world it won't mean jack if your attacker kicks the crap out of you before you can even think to draw. Correct me if I'm wrong but the average man can traverse 15-20 feet in the time it takes the average man to draw his gun. I can't remember the name of the guy who's website explained that...I believe he's a former cop, teaches combat techniques and such.

Anyways, to only rely on your gun is, in my opinion, as stupid as only relying on martial arts. You never know what's going to happen and you can't count on that piece of metal in your waistband any more than you can count on yourself to have access to it.

jcims
January 19, 2006, 09:33 PM
Probably a lesson from the animal world here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3107277082758889559

mjolnir
January 20, 2006, 12:51 AM
Mjolnir, you are tiresome. You also fail to crasp:confused: the subtle arts of syllables, phonetic distinguants:confused: , and silence.

at least I can spell...:p

Twycross
January 20, 2006, 01:44 AM
[icy voice]

Let's keep things cool here. Personal attacks of any kind from anybody are not welcome here at TFL. Lets get this one back on track.

[/icy voice]

stealthmode
January 20, 2006, 07:20 AM
Cha-ching...pow!!!!

mjolnir
January 20, 2006, 06:28 PM
[even icier voice]

Happy to. Let's get one thing straight...nobody insults me without a response from me...if a poster disagrees with something I've said, address my point; you'll get the same measure of respect you've given.

[even icier voice]

Capt Charlie
January 20, 2006, 11:17 PM
Before things get even more icey (or is that dicey?), icey voices aren't nice.

Icey voices result in locked threads.

Feel free to start a new one on this,..... minus the icey voices ;) .