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ThePatriot29
April 27, 2002, 11:21 PM
I've read Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme."

What others should I read?
I'm looking for the classic books on gunfighting, defense. Any suggestions?

Also, I've heard alot about Condition Yellow, red, etc in relation to awareness. I have a general idea of what this means, but anyone want to list each condition and what it means? Where did this originate?

D.W. Drang
April 28, 2002, 12:32 AM
Ayoob's books are good--check out the rest. There are actually a bunch of authors who are good, depending on what you are looking for. Some authors to look for: Jim Cirrilio, Gabe Suarez, Jim Farnham, Gila Maye Hayes, and, of course, last but possibly most, Jeff Cooper.

Col Cooper is generally credited with introducing the color codes to the self-defense mind-set, as well as with being in on the ground floor of developing the Modern Technique of the Pistol.
He developed the system based on alert codes used while he served as a USMC officer during WWII.

White: Unaware of surroundings. Typified by being asleep, absorbed in a book or TV, or under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Yellow: Aware of surroundings, "cognizant of those around you", have identified potential sources of threats, but no threat is ID'd yet.

Orange: "On Alert", specific potential threat(s) has been identified, BUT no specific threats have not arisen--they may not be real threats--so defensive action is not called for--yet. This is the time you should be devising a plan for coping with a threat.

Red: ALARM! Now is the time to implement the plan you developed during "Orange"--and it is not necessarily going to be "Start shooting!" Ideally, during Orange you will have left the AO--if not, that is your best bet now, if you can...

Some will add a fifth level of alert, "Black", to indicate that you are actually engaged in some sort of self-defense action. COL Cooper says--and I agree, FWIW--that a fifth level is not necessary, since you have begun dealing with the situation "In Red."

G3
April 28, 2002, 02:33 AM
The Farnam Method of Defensive Handgunning and Fighting Smarter by Tom Givens are must reads.

Both books are very comprehensive and are one-stop shopping of self-defense info.

ACP230
April 28, 2002, 07:13 AM
Quick Or Dead by William L. Cassidy is good. I also recommend Real World Survival: What Has Worked For Me, by Walt Rauch.

D.W. Drang
April 28, 2002, 11:16 PM
Here is a partial list of some authors and titles that I have gotten from the King County (WA) library system:

Cooper, Jeff. Principles Of Personal Defense

Cooper, Jeff. The Complete Book Of Modern Handgunning, by Jeff Cooper and the editors of Guns and ammo magazine.

Ayoob, Massad F.
Massad Ayoob's Handgun Primer; Gun-Proof Your Children!

Ayoob, Massad F. In The Gravest Extreme: the role of the firearm in personal protection

Ayoob, Massad F. Stressfire

Ayoob, Massad F. The Truth About Self-Protection

Quigley, Paxton; illustrated by Liz Kelsey. Not An Easy Target : Paxton Quigley's self-protection for women

Quigley, Paxton. Armed & Female

May-Hayes, Gila. (Foreword by Massad F. Ayoob.) Effective Defense: the woman, the plan, the gun /by Gila May-Hayes. ALT TITLE: Woman, the plan, the gun.

Metaksa, Tanya K. Safe, Not Sorry: keeping yourself and your family safe in a violent age

Applegate, Rex. ADD AUTHOR: Melson, Charles D. The Close-Combat Files Of Colonel Rex Applegate.
(A compendium of, mostly, photos and lesson plans from COL Applegate's days training the OSS and Army Counter Intelligence agents in WWII.)

Cirillo, Jim. Guns, Bullets, And Gunfights: lessons and tales from a modern-day gunfighter /Jim Cirillo.

Farnam, John. The Street-Smart Gun Book

Suarez, Gabriel. The Tactical Advantage: a definitive study of personal small-arms tactics /Gabriel Suarez.

Ross, John Unintended consequences (Yes, this is in the library system!)

G3
April 30, 2002, 11:29 PM
The King County library is spending your tax money well.

D.W. Drang
May 4, 2002, 12:35 PM
The King County library is spending your tax money well. Great, another influx of immigrants to drive up unemployment and real estate prices! :eek: Oh, well, at least they'll be more likely to drive DOWN crime rates...

jpd82
May 4, 2002, 08:09 PM
I have a collection of books ranging from military hand to hand combat, first aid, out door survival, urban survial, ect. any thing that helps a person deal with bad situations.

Baba Louie
May 5, 2002, 09:21 AM
"Kill or be Killed" by Col. Rex Applegate says it all.

Adios Qweeksdraw

Gino
May 7, 2002, 05:52 PM
How about books to keep you from having to engage in Combat? ;) I've read all of these and all were worth the price of the book and the time to read them. I consider the first two as "must reads" for ANYONE.

The Gift of Fear - Gavin De Becker
Verbal judo - George J. Thompson
Safe in the City - Marc MacYoung
Violence, Blunders, and Fractured Jaws - Marc MacYoung
Mindhunter - John Douglas
Journey into Darkness - John Douglas
True Tails of American Violence - Chris Pfouts
What Cops Know - Connie Fletcher

DaveK
May 7, 2002, 11:30 PM
Book of Five rings is my all-time favorite.

El Vato
May 8, 2002, 02:59 PM
Living the Martial Way : A Manual for the Way a Modern Warrior Should Think by Forrest E. Morgan. A martial arts "philosophy" book that is not the slightest bit flaky, and is very applicable outside the martial arts setting.

Practical Shooting, by Brian Enos. A book on the "philosophy" of competitive practical shooting, yet very applicable to other types of physically challenging activity.

TheActualLiz
February 24, 2012, 03:45 PM
Dave K.

Which translation of the Book of Five Rings did you use?

I just finished the Jon Han-Sun translation and I thought it was pretty good but wondered how it compared to other translations.


Liz C.


http://www.amazon.com/Book-Five-Rings-ebook/dp/B006W0E7EM

bruno diaz
February 24, 2012, 04:08 PM
In regards to the color codes, I teach them at my job and I teach all five. Black is necessary, because it describes excessive response or complete inaction, or inability to act. I have seen both at my job and you should be aware of them. You may have to snap somebody of that state, or you may find yourself stuck in that state.

Frank Ettin
February 24, 2012, 05:06 PM
A good explanation of the Color Code can be found on-line here (http://www.frfrogspad.com/color.htm).

bds32
February 25, 2012, 08:18 AM
If you are looking for classics then I recommend:

Shooting to Live by Sykes and Fairbairn

No Second Place Winner by Bill Jordan

The Deadly Routine by Jack Morris

All are related to police work. The latter is a book about 9 incidents in which police officers were murdered. One of the nine is the Newhall shootout.

Murdock
February 25, 2012, 10:09 AM
On Killing, by Dave Grossman
On Combat, by Dave Grossman
The Book of Two Guns, the Martial Art of the 1911 Pistol and AR Carbine, by Tiger McKee
Combat Focus Shooting, Evolution 2010, by Rob Pincus

And Ayoob, Cooper, Cirillo, Appelgate as recommended above.

Crazy88Fingers
February 25, 2012, 01:01 PM
Bill Jordan's No Second Place Winner has been pretty informative thus far. I like revolvers and am on the Border Patrol Academy's waiting list, so I find it particularly interesting.

Edward429451
February 25, 2012, 03:48 PM
I'm not going to repeat the excellent books already posted, I'll just add to it. The Brian Enos book, Fundamentals of Shooting is a must read, and surprised no one mentioned Coopers Art of the Rifle either.

Oh, the other good book by Ayoob is Gunproof your Children. Excellent if you have little ones.

BlueTrain
February 25, 2012, 03:51 PM
If you can find a copy, Chic Gaylord's book (don't remember the title) published in the 1950s is a little offbeat by today's standards. Much of the information is slightly dated and his attitudes are likewise dated. Likewise, there's a lot of cowboy quickdraw stuff there, too, but that was hot stuff in the 1950s and that's where Jeff Cooper came in. However, it's one of the few books in the popular literature that was illustrated with corpses. We tend to forget the association.

Elmer Keith has an excellent reputation and his writing was very good. But the plain and practical information is a little scarce in his books. His magazine articles did cover the subject pretty well, however, but good luck finding old issues of gun magazines.

Archie
February 25, 2012, 05:00 PM
All the books mentioned have 'something' in them. Be aware of this, though:

All authors have their own perspective. The late Jeff Cooper served as an infantry officer in the Korean War and never quite lost the perspective of defending against a human wave attack.

Elmer Keith was more of a hunter than a soldier, so his perspective is that of wanting deep and straight penetration. Some of his .44 Special loads would shoot end to end through a car of the era.

Bill Jordan was a life-long lawman - except when he served in WWII. He perspective was looking for trouble.

Skeeter Skelton was a lawman, an undercover lawman, a hunter and I think he served on active duty. He was probably the most well-rounded of all.

Fairbairn and Sykes ran the Shanghai constabulary in an era where shooting criminals was routine.

I don't know as much about the 'modern' writers, but they have to have some perspective if not axe to grind. Try to spot that perspective and allow for it.

What I'm saying is all these points of view have to be altered for a person defending themselves, their family or home in modern society and criminal justice atmosphere. Read a number of viewpoints and fuse them with the overview of protecting yourself both immediately and long term.

Not that you should dither if you ever have to use deadly force, but you need to plan ahead of time how to do it and not be liable for all sorts of extraneous nonsense.

bds32
February 25, 2012, 05:54 PM
Skeeter Skelton was a lawman, an undercover lawman, a hunter and I think he served on active duty. He was probably the most well-rounded of all.



From what I remember from one of his articles, he served a very short enlistment, around one year, in the USMC.

What I'm saying is all these points of view have to be altered for a person defending themselves, their family or home in modern society and criminal justice atmosphere. Read a number of viewpoints and fuse them with the overview of protecting yourself both immediately and long term.



Excellent advice. You can take a little from all.

Archie
February 25, 2012, 06:40 PM
I forgot to add this in my post. I'm currently reading The Modern Day Gunslinger by Don Mann, U. S. Navy SEAL. I'm just short of half way through the book and it seems to be accurate and useful.

There's nothing really outrageous or ground breaking, but that's to be expected. He sometimes words concepts other than the way I would state them, but not to the point of disqualifying the concept.

As I said, I'm not done with the book yet; so I can't give it a full measure of confidence, but from I have read, it seems good. But like all the others, this man's viewpoint must be considered in evaluating the ideas he espouses.

BlackFeather
February 25, 2012, 07:33 PM
Dave K.

Which translation of the Book of Five Rings did you use?

I just finished the Jon Han-Sun translation and I thought it was pretty good but wondered how it compared to other translations.


Liz C.


I'm not DaveK but I've read a couple different versions, my favourite has been Thomas Clearys translation. William Scott Wilson wrote a biography on Miyamoto that also looks into parallels of the Book of Five Rings as well as a deeper insight into his understandings.

I've not read much into classical gunfighting, but if you're into one handed: Eric Sykes, Shooting to Live with the One-Hand Gun, co-authored with W. E. Fairbairn.

Murdock
February 26, 2012, 08:20 AM
I forgot to add this in my post. I'm currently reading The Modern Day Gunslinger by Don Mann, U. S. Navy SEAL. I'm just short of half way through the book and it seems to be accurate and useful.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when the author comes from a military SPECOPS background, offensive operations in a team environment are the norm. The civilian's tactical problem is normally defensive and individual. When the author is military, I pay the most attention to the counter-ambush techniques he is trying to teach.

BlueTrain
February 26, 2012, 09:00 AM
Fairbairn and Sykes in their book recognized that their methods were a little controversial even then. But they had their own reasons for the way they did things, which they explained very thoroughly. They even admitted the possibility of an interested individual being able to work out solutions to their own problems entirely on their own.

They were particularly safety oriented, which was the reason for some of their standardized procedures. They also worked in an environment in which individual policemen really only had basic firearms training and were not continually on the range. But that's pretty much the way soldiers go off to war. What you don't find in the book, however, are very many of the little details essential to pistol shooting, even their way, but that's pretty much a limitation of any book.

Read all the books you can find on the subject but don't mention it to anyone who is giving you instruction.

Murdock
February 27, 2012, 07:15 PM
Read all the books you can find on the subject but don't mention it to anyone who is giving you instruction.

+1:D

jmfc606
March 1, 2012, 11:29 PM
Back in the early 90's I was sent to a 3 day Street Survival seminar put on by a company called Calibre Press of Northbrook Ill phone 1-800-323-0037 or 312-498-5680. They had 2 books that were only available to Law Enforcement at the time the first book was called Street Survival "Tacatics for armed encounters" by Special Agent Ronald J Adams, and LT's Thomas M McTernan and Charles Remsberg. The second book was The Tactical Edge "Surviving High Risk Patrol by Charles Remsberg. I'm not sure of either book is still in print or the company still in business but I'm sure you could find them on the used market. Both books are excellent reads. I prefered Street Survival and seems to be what you are asking for. The 2nd book deals more with the patrol aspect of Police work. I hope this helps you out.

kflo01
March 6, 2012, 12:13 PM
Combat Shooting with Massad Ayoob