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ballistic gelatin
April 26, 2002, 09:56 AM
do you guys think it would be wise to get a hold of either a full auto or 3 shot burst trigger group to install in your weapon if there is ever any serious need for a civilian call to arms? Don't install it, just keep it in a box somewhere.

Ceol Mhor
April 26, 2002, 10:08 AM
Not for me. Why?

1) I may not have much experience with full-auto, but it strikes me as a waste of valuable ammo. Unlike the Army, I don't get free re-supply.

2) Too expensive for me.

2a) If it's not expensive, it's illegal, and the risks inherent in having an unregistered full-auto are way too great to justify it for me.

ViLLain
April 26, 2002, 10:54 AM
Don't have time to search for the exact memo release by the BATF. Got to go to work. :(

They label this as "stockpiling" of part I believe and can be interpreted as a violation. The violation being intent to manufacture a machine-gun.

If you go to this web site, it has tons of memos and news releases from the ATF and your answer is there.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/law.html

ViLLain
April 26, 2002, 11:08 AM
Here's your answer:

Any weapon which shoots automatically more than one shot, without
manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger meets the
definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) of the National
Firearms Act (NFA). An AR-15 rifle, which is assembled with
certain M-16 machinegun fire control components, and which is
capable of shooting automatically is a machinegun as defined.

The definition of machinegun in section 5845(b) also includes any
combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if
such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
Thus, an AR-15 rifle possessed with separate M-16 machinegun
components can meet the definition of a machinegun, if the rifle
shoots automatically when the components are installed.

ballistic gelatin
April 26, 2002, 12:13 PM
AR15 in gunsafe
+
Selectable fire trigger group in closet
=
machine gun
-----------------
This is bogus legislative crap. The land of the FREE?

Badger Arms
April 26, 2002, 05:15 PM
I'm with the other poster about the need or desireability for non-organizational full-auto fire. However, I disagree that possessing the parts and an AR-15 is illegal. What the memo says is that if you have parts that you can place into an AR-15 that will make it full-auto, you indeed have a machine-gun even in disassembled form.

To make an AR-15 full-auto with M-16 parts requires the drilling of the receiver to accept the auto-sear. Doing so would make the gun itself a machinegun. Possession of the Drop-In Auto-Sear in combination with M-16 parts is bad, though, as this can literally be dropped in. Possession of all of the parts required and listed below along with an undrilled receiver is NOT illegal.

Just a point, you have to have the following parts stockpiled:

1) M-16 Bolt Carrier
2) Auto Sear with pin and spring
3) Auto Selector
4) Trigger
5) Hammer
6) Disconnector
7) Firing Pin (I Think)

** In place of the M-16 Carrier and Firing pin, Bushmaster sells a modification part that installs on your AR-15 bolt carrier to allow it to trip the auto-sear.

To stay legal, you cannot put ANY of these parts in your gun or they would make the rifle a machinegun.

Additionally, you must have a drilling fixture, drill, and the proper drill bit. It'd also be a good idea to make sure beforehand that your receiver isn't one that's blocked or bastardized (Colt) so that you cannot modify the gun.

You might wanna ask yourself one question. "Do I feel lucky?" Personally, I don't feel lucky. Full-auto has limited applications mostly in formal, trained units or during ambushes. Both of these can occur if the proverbial feces hit the fan.

ballistic gelatin
April 29, 2002, 07:35 AM
"Do I feel lucky?"No not really.can occur if the proverbial feces hit the fan.That is what I was really getting at with the idea of drop-in parts.

dustindu4
April 29, 2002, 01:48 PM
If you owned any of the M16 full auto parts, especially the trigger group and owned an AR-15 you are a candidate for Federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison? It's the same reason why you can't own any of those pre-81 drop in auto sears that don't have serial numbers. You can only own the parts if you have a registered sear or lower.

Badger Arms
April 29, 2002, 09:15 PM
Line Q of paragraph Z, page 7894 section 354 of subsection 18 says....

Possession of the DIAS is illegal without it being registered IIRC. Possession of an AR-15 that has NOT been drilled for the M-16 auto sear is not illegal even if you have all of the M-16 parts required to convert it and a jig and a drill bit. Where it becomes illegal is when you drill the holes. By the letter of the law, you have to be able to assemble all of the parts into your receiver without modification.

Also by the letter of the law... The DRILLING of the receiver to accept the Auto Sear is considered the manufacture of a machinegun and a felony by Federal Law and many state laws unless you have the proper license.

Now, if BATF really followed the letter of the law, they would know they have absolutely no jursidiction to charge you with diddly because there is no tie to interstate commerce involved in the manufacture in your garage of a machinegun. I understand that most people in the BATF and justice department are well-read college boys but they refuse to read beyond the 9th Ammendment of the Constitution.

Me, I hate machineguns being pointed at me by BATF guys so I'll avoid the issue altogether by not testing the 10th ammendment.

Oh, btw, a 'drop-in' conversion is illegal by the letter of the law. That's why I'd suggest the mil-spec parts in conjunction with a drill bit and jig so the conversion can be done in a dire emergency.