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Tainted
April 24, 2002, 11:22 AM
Hey I would like to see your take on this situation. My neighbor came out last night and started yelling at me and my girlfriend while we were talking on my patio. Saying that if we dont shut the **** up hes gonna get me evicted for noise disturbance and that he is sick of my little bitches (reffering to my girlfriend) laugh and my stupid voice. Then I got mad and said "you need to be more respectfull when you talk to me and my girlfriend. We all got to live here and being a ******* doesn't help matters" So then he said that he wanted to punch me. He walked over to my front door and started knocking. I just called the cops to file a formal complaint because he did say that he wished to do bodily harm to me. The operator asked if we were safe and I said yes were perfectly fine. So she said she would send a officer over. Well 1.5 hours later the police finally show up. Which was ok I told her we were safe and that there was no immediate danger. I also had my .45 in my back pocket.JIC. the cop came inside and we chatted about it for a few minutes he said I did the right thing and that he did not think we were being loud or causeing trouble and that they have gotten a call about this guy before. But man when he was knocking on my door I really wanted to open it up and hit him in the face. However he is a very large guy. Probably 220 or so and I am just 150 and lanky. Not that I cant defend myself but still thats not a good way to start. So now I worry about him trying to get revenge. I mean I filled a police report against him. But that doesn't help me when I walk home some night and he hits me with a 2X4. I am gonna talk to the office today about him.

Do you all have any advice or insite?:confused:

foghornl
April 24, 2002, 11:27 AM
Other than police Report, and chatting with the "residential office", not much more you can do. One thing, though, is keep a small cassette recorder with you. If the guy starts mouthing off again, press "record" before you say anything. Then ask "politely" what did you say, Mr Smith?

saintnick001
April 24, 2002, 11:55 AM
I'm new here but I do have some advise. Do you have a permit to carry in your state? If so, that is wise thing to do. Always! Even if this yahoo wasn't in the equasion. Be aware of your suroundings so that NO ONE can sneak up on you. Hope everything works out for you.

John DR
April 24, 2002, 12:10 PM
Probably a good thing you didn't open the door and punch him cause if that didn't work you would most likely ended up shooting him. That would have just been more trouble for you than it's worth.
Now if he would have kicked your door in to get to you, you could have lit him up like the fourth of July.

chris93473
April 24, 2002, 12:10 PM
yea you should be able to CCW. also use common sense about what you learned about this guy. that's guy is a crazy AH if he just did that for no apparent reason.

Tainted
April 24, 2002, 12:11 PM
well I dont have a CCW permit yet but I do carry openly most of the time. I feel that I have a good sense of my surroundings at all times. This guy just seems like the type that if I did have to draw my gun he would be a idiot and not stop. i will not let someone get close enough to cause me harm. I guess running is a good tactic.:( I doubt that he has seen me walk by with a weapon on my person as I may carry openly but its ussually in ITWB holster. So its not a broadcast type of thing.


Edit: John DR you hit the nail on the head!

Betty
April 24, 2002, 12:16 PM
Yuck. I've never had a nightmare neighbor. If he's one of the "low blow" types, he could do anything from throwing a rock in your window or keying your car.

Keep a close eye on things - do you have motion activated porch lights, in case he pokes around in the dark?

How about your girlfriend - how is she staying/keeping alert, in case he decides to pick on her?

Tainted
April 24, 2002, 12:37 PM
Well runt(sorry that makes me laugh calling you runt):p Well we also broke up last night while all this was happening. I had a pretty rough night all and all. Accually we were breaking up before and finished breaking up after. It wa totally unrealated to this incident.

saintnick001
April 24, 2002, 01:13 PM
I would advise against openly carrying your weapon. I would only do this if the law allowed (which I assume in your state it does) AND if it was against the law to conceal it. Go get a permit. Advertising that you even own a weapon is an invite for a break in to your dweling. This crazy guy might see that you have a gun and decide that he should have one too. Your home would be a good place to aquire said gun. Also, If you two have another altercation and he notices the weapon either then or previously, he could very easily call the cops and lie about being drawn on or something of the like. He would be able to tell them exactly where it was on you and everything. Don't mean to nitpick but I would really just get the permit to have the drop on the BG's.

C.R.Sam
April 24, 2002, 01:28 PM
You're doin well so far. Stay cool, armed and aware.

Sam

M1911
April 24, 2002, 04:11 PM
Tainted:

One suggestion -- your post mentioned that

Then I got mad and said "you need to be more respectfull when you talk to me and my girlfriend. We all got to live here and being a ******* doesn't help matters"

When dealing with this fellow, I suggest that you don't want to 1) get mad, 2) let him know that he's gotten you mad, 3) tell him what he needs to do, or 4) call him an *sshole.

If you get in another confrontation with him and the worst thing happens, you must be innocent. You must not have had any part in aggravating the situation. If the judge feels that your behavior in any way made the situation worse, there's a possibility that the judge would not allow your lawyer to even argue self defense. See Andrew Branca's book "The Law of Self Defense."

If he starts this again, I suggest you say calming words like "take it easy. I'm not looking for any trouble, etc." while you back your way out of whereever you are, hopefully back inside your apartment, locking the door behind you. Then call the cops again.

Yes, I know it sucks to eat humble pie -- ruins your whole day. But if a judge decides that what happened was mutual combat, that will ruin your whole life.

M1911

Tainted
April 24, 2002, 04:17 PM
M1911 Good advice.:)

Bogie
April 24, 2002, 05:37 PM
Use the Monty Python defense - Run Away.

And document. Odds are that if you give him enough leeway, he'll construct his own jail cell.

You said you broke up with the GF - And you were quiet about it? Doesn't sound like most of my relationships - they've tended to involve crying and much gnashing of teeth... And that's just on MY side...

(weak grin - feel for ya man...)

large_charge
April 24, 2002, 06:22 PM
As some one that has dealt with similar situations several times (I don't eat humble pie very well) I would suggest getting an alternative weapon that won't land you in jail, high voltage weapons work best. Don't limit yourself to this, keep the real thing handy also.
It allows you to defend yourself without as much chance of going to jail. The legal system is not set up for self defense arguments, it's fairly difficult to get off that way once caught in the wheels of justice. The legal system is setup to convict. Remember that when you get start getting angry.
Like several posters said, don't give in to anger, it sets you up for a fall. If verbally attacked, record it if you can, and just stare. I don't know what state you are in but in my state much precedence is given to were all this takes place, if he comes on your property, you stand a much better chance of walking if physical violence does occur.
The last thing you want is a trip to jail, or a conviction. This can happen even if you are completely in the right, it's all about appearances and police and prosecutors are not really energetic about digging up "the truth". If he's down and you are standing there, away you will go.
Of course getting hurt or killed by loonies is not on the agenda either, so stay alert coming and going, keep your weaponry of choice conceled but handy. This is good advice whether you have neighbor troubles or not as any stranger may by a hazard.

ATeaM
April 24, 2002, 11:10 PM
I think now is the time to focus all the anger from your breakup and vent it on your neighbor. Afterall, it's his fault right ? Strike while the iron is hot ! Start by getting real drunk, then blast some Slayer...wait, I take that back. Get real drunk and then play Motley Crue's "Without You" over and over again. When he comes over all huffy and puffy slap him hard and run back into your house. As he pounds on the doors, guns ahoy !

Just kidding ;)

Not that bad of an idea though. Well, sorta.

Tainted
April 24, 2002, 11:43 PM
This is a very bad situation.
ATeam I thought about your idea. :mad:
But realisticly I think the police are on my side. The officer said that they have never in the 2 years I have lived here gotten a call about me. But this guy is here 2 months and they have 2 calls.

However I found out disturbing news tonight. His wife is the book keeper at the complex.:mad:

but my other neihbors are offering help. So hopefully with enough coomunity suport we can get this guy under control.

I just hate staying at condition yellow the entire time I am here.:(
My ferret knocked over a glass earlier and I jumped really bad.:eek:

Thanks for the advice kepp it coming.:)

David Blinder
April 25, 2002, 07:00 AM
Never get into a situation with a gun that you wouldn't enter without one. My guess is that you & the GF were probably somewhat louder than you thought and probably were at least part of the problem. That doesn't excuse your neighbor from being a jerk but it sounds like there could have been some guilt on both sides. In the event that I'm wrong, get some pepper spray for a non-contact, less than lethal method of dealing with him if needed.

Tainted
April 25, 2002, 11:39 AM
What about a couple of 12 gauge bean bag rounds?:eek: :D

Mr.Wingshooter
April 25, 2002, 02:51 PM
This guy needs a lesson, you have the perfect oppertunity to give it. Next time he complains about something so trivial as a nice little conversation with your GF, and then proceeds to come over and knock on your door, have your GF answer the door and when he threatens her with physical violence have her taser his ass. Make sure you call the police and tell them the neighbor is trying to beat the door down. Then let him have it.

http://www.taser.com/Products/34000firing.jpg

Tainted
April 25, 2002, 03:56 PM
i like that idea!! the other idea I had was to take a little bit of spider wire (fishing line with really high test limit) and run a string across the railing of my stairs. then let my neighbors know so they dont trip but then as he comes up he may meet the pavement. Then if I was to happen to be washing off the stairs with a bucket of water at the time he falls on his face. I just think it would be funny. Damn kids around here with the fishing wire.:mad: Thats the third time this week. Maybe I shoud cool him off. Open the door and dump a bucket of water on him. Then Oh sorry I was just dumping this bucket of water out.:confused: sorry. Then I can test out this new tazer I just picked up on wet people( if he comes after me inside);)

stevetuna
April 25, 2002, 05:49 PM
is not to get in one. Sounds like you did the right thing during the original confrontation. Hard to do (de-escalate, call the cops), easy to live with.

Stay in condition yellow! The ticking sound you hear is this guy getting ready to go off. Doesn't have to be you that pulls the pin, either. Good luck.

Greybeard
April 25, 2002, 09:39 PM
In 110% agreement withwhat Blunder said. Suggest re-read and heed.

Aftermath of an incident with even involvement of a firearm over such can get very ugly and very expensive very quickly. Think about products from people such as www.foxlabs.com and view the pistola as an absolute last resort.

ATeaM
April 26, 2002, 03:48 AM
www.thepayback.com/getrevenge.html

Rickmeister
April 26, 2002, 12:08 PM
I suggest you make every effort to promote the peace, and by that I mean you should find in yourself the means, the courage and the decisiveness to completely defuse the situation before it gets out of hand. The burden is on you.

I am not saying that I agree with your neighbor's attitude. I find it very disturbing for what it can potentially develop into. But this is one of those things that you have the power to control---at least from what I gather---and for that reason it is all the more imperative that you do whatever it takes to keep the war from escalating.

Ah, but he bad-mouthed you and your squeeze.

So what.

Sure, it takes a lot of inner strength to swallow the offense. Not everyone is born with that kind of moral fiber. But then, you're supposed to be the better man---am I correct? Maybe the dope had a rough day at work and needed some R&R to keep his nerves from cooking off. When your volume exceeded the reasonable limit, he naturally got ******. Who wouldn't, for cryin' out loud.

Give him a break. He's entitled to as much peace and quiet as you are. You never mentioned him being anything more than a 220 lb sourpuss, so I won't assume he's a stewed-up, criminally insane lunatic whose only drive in life is to take yours. If he threatens to get physical, do what you did and call the cops. If not, ...well...at least you know what bugs him. You can't say later that you had no clue.

Curiously, I find myself more often in the opposite situation. To wit, my neighbors are a bunch of rowdy, no-good, hyper-emotional meat-heads who lack even the rudiments of polite society. Every month or so they'll throw an excrutiatingly loud party in their backyard, with all the trappings of a wild bacchanalia and nothing you'd remotely associate with a civilized group of immigrants. This usually happens at some ungodly hour of the night, when all of their job-holding, self-supporting neighbors are trying to catch their zees.

On more than one occasion, I have had to go out there and politely request that they tone it down a bit. On others, I have had no other choice but to report them to the police. Either way, it is usually without result. But at no point have I ever threatened them with violence, in spite of their lack of consideration for me, my family, and the other neighbors. It really and truly burns me up when they do this, but it's something I always find myself having to relent to in the interest of all parties.

As a CCW licensee, my level of patience MUST be at all times above that of the average citizen due to the extraordinary confidence my state has vested upon me. I am EXPECTED to excercise more restraint than most. There is no such thing as "fighting words" in my book; no such thing as "the right to preserve my honor". If the imps jump over the fence and attack me without provocation, they'll be pushing up daisies before they've had a chance to soil their pants. At the very least, it'll be weeks before they can walk again and take solid foods. But until that happens, I must have done everything to prevent it.

I don't know if you're a permit holder, but I would expect no less of you if you were not. All I can say, in your case, is that giving the stooge his due---which is really not all that much if you think about it---would be the best course of action. That is, be of good cheer and give in to his relatively mild request (for low volume). You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

In the end, it'll prove far less expensive than going to court and a hell of a lot easier than you or him sorting out your teeth.

That said, I wish you the best.

- Rick

foureyes_45
April 26, 2002, 01:36 PM
Rickmeister
Very well PUT about the CCW..It is a big responsibility to Have a CCW or CWL. You really have to look at each situations. Hope you Guys have a great weekend.

ATeaM
April 26, 2002, 07:23 PM
I think what Rick is trying to say is have someone else do your dirty work.

ATeaM
April 26, 2002, 07:31 PM
He-he, just kidding...again (what a sense of humor :rolleyes: ).


Rick, what you described sounds intolerable. It's always good to promote the peace, but nobody should have to put up with that. Your situation would be better suited for "la migra" than the police.

jhon
April 26, 2002, 07:56 PM
Tainted,

From what you have said, it would seem that this guy was way out of line. However, since this person litterally lives right beside you, it would be in your best interest to try and make some sort of amends. I know, it sticks in your craw, as would mine. Yet, the fact remains that for the forseeable future, you will be living in "condition yellow", if the situation doesn't change for the better. That's no way for a man to live. Your home is sopposed to be your castle, a place of refuge from the pressures of work, ect.. . If you find yourself jumping at unexpected sounds, and loud noises, you don't need me to tell ya that something will probably give, and outcome may not be pretty.

My suggestion would be to wonder over to his pad, and let him know that you were "sorry" for gettting a little out of line. Maybe offer him an extra ball game ticket, or whatever your imagination can come up with that would seem appropriate. Make a point of waving, and saying hello when you see him. He MAY even be an ok guy, albeit, one with a very short fuse.

This probably isn't what you wanted to hear. It's not as sexy as luring him into your home, and forcing him to kneel before you with an autoloader stuck in his mouth, wetting the carpet, while you introduce him to the rules of edicate. However, if you can nutralize the threat with a minimal loss of face, I say give it a shot.

Stay cool,

Jhon

Rickmeister
April 26, 2002, 11:37 PM
Your situation would be better suited for "la migra" than the police.
My feelings exactly, AteaM.

Unfortunately, they are LEGAL aliens. So they have the inalienable right to trash my rights.

:mad: :(

Go figure.

Tainted
May 1, 2002, 12:21 PM
Wow you all have givin some excelent advice!:eek:
Well I decided that I did not want to have to deal with always worrying about getting hit in the head with a brick while on my patio. So I loaded up the .50 cal and unloaded a box into his bedroom last night:D
Now you may think I over reacted:o

Just kidding, Man me and A-Team would get along great!:)


But I was able to handle the situation. First step before attemting to talk to the guy was to insure my safety. As I did not want to walk over there with a .45 on my hip. I did put my colapsable batton in my waistband concealed. Then I when over to my friend who lives behind me. He is a VERY large and scary looking dude. But really hes a big nice guy. So I just asked if he would mind hanging out by his car incase things get nasty then maybe come to my aid. Or even just call the cops saying he saw it. I wanted a witness if he tried anything.

I walked over about 6:00pm with 2 beers. Knocked on the door and he answered. I started with "Hey I think we have gotten off to a bad start as neighbors. My name is Mike" *shakes hand and he introduces himself also. I offer a beer to him and we stroll out in between the buildings and get this. HE starts to appologise. Saying that he is under a lot of presure at work and things didnt work out with the house he was trying to buy, and he is terribly sorry he took it out on me and my girlfriend. I appologised to him also because I never intended to wake him up. We exchanged phone numbers and he promised to be much mor tollerant. He even said that he knew we were not being loud but he could hear our voices and he over reacted. All in all he seems like a rather nice guy. Sort of.

So it has been resolved with no harm or foul on either side of the fence.:)

Thanks for everyones responce!
theres a lot of love on this board.
Comon people feel the LOVE:D
I need a hug now.:p

Mr.Wingshooter
May 1, 2002, 02:18 PM
Heh, I think will swap out my concealed pistol for a concealed 8 ounce compact beer. Now how to keep it cold?

lol,

good job,

zot
May 1, 2002, 03:58 PM
you didn't press charges?you would had your CCW, I thought if your threatened with harm, even a felon can get a gun?

Tainted
May 1, 2002, 04:18 PM
Zot I really cannot figure out what you said
please refrase so I can answer your questions.:confused:

In regards to charges I really had nothing to press charges for. Just me saying that he said he was gonna hit me does not fly with the police. I filed a police report so if it became repitious I would have documentation. Now if I had witnesses out side of the situation then I have more ground to stand on.

I do not have a CCW so I left the gun at home. Walking up to defuse a already tense situation with a loaded gun on my hip did not sound like a good idea. Also think of the legal stand point.

Prosecutor would eat me for lunch for shooting a guy in his own door way. I walk over there with a loaded gun then shot him in self defense. Even sounds like premeditated murder to me.

Plus it would worry my neighbors to see a armed person walking around drinking beer.:D

wingnutx
May 1, 2002, 05:39 PM
Getting a tape recorder or one of those little x10 web cams would be a good idea, if you want to be able to demonstrate his aggression to police or a judge. Document everything. You might want to keep pepper spray (better yet, bear repellant) by the front door or on your person.

Open carry is legal here in AZ, but I don't think it is a good idea in most situations. I only open carry on the way to and from the range, or doing yard work in the middle of the night.

Bugflipper
May 5, 2002, 04:45 AM
Son be careful in this situation. I would advise against carrying a pistol in view, unless that's the only legal way it can be carried. My reason being, I'm 220lbs and bodybuild avidly. I know, even with my dual retention holster it's possible for an attacker to grab my pistol and kill me.
I would recomend you study your state and local laws and conform to them 100% in this situation. In our era of Liberal views, I have seen many self defense cases turn into prison time for the man trying to defend himself. I would recomend less than lethal forms of protection if local laws allow. If permitted to carry pepper spray my first choice would be Freeze +P, as of a year or two back it was the most powerful legal spray for a citizen to carry. In my dept. each officer must be certified with this. It burns like hell fire for about 30 minutes. 95% of assailants sprayed flop like a fish and squeal like a school girl. However in my experience some people have no symptoms from it. If your last recourse of action is to use lethal force be sure you are within the law.
I know a fellow that went to prison 2 or 3 months ago for murder. He was always in trouble, just piddly stuff all his life. A very likeable guy that never was a real problem. He's in his forties ate up with cancer and about 6 foot 130lbs. He was drunk a big fellow started whooping up on him in his own yard. He hit the man in the head with a 2 X 4 one time. The other guy died, he spent 3 months in the hospital. He was found guilty of first degree murder, doing 15 years. More than likely he will die in prison, with his health problems. This was a good humble fellow that in my oppinion was just trying to get the guy off of him, but the jury didn't see it that way. I encourage any law abiding citizen to carry a concealed firearm where legal, however pulling it out or using it is sometimes not the best answer.