View Full Version : Who's better than you?
April 23, 2002, 11:33 PM
How many people do you know (personally or casually) that can outshoot you?
Be honest!...........Take the poll and let's see how TFLers stack up!
April 24, 2002, 12:02 AM
Competitively, about 2/3s of the people i shoot with can outshoot me.
Outside IPSC and IDPA, I can outshoot all my friends and family. Very few of them shoot, and the ones that do on occasion, it's because I bring them.
April 24, 2002, 03:01 AM
I know numerous persons that can out shoot me; both
male and female. Like football is too team's, on any given
day, anybody is vunerable to fall from his/her perch.
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
April 24, 2002, 06:28 AM
Of the family, friends, and acquaintences I've shot with, I am, thus far, the best shot with any handgun put in my hands.
I can normally take someone else's handgun and after firing just a clip or cylinder-full, easily out shoot-them with their own gun.
Bragging? maybe. However, the results are there in living color and cannot be denied.
I don't do many things good but shooting is surely one of them.
April 24, 2002, 06:56 AM
my wife can consistantly out shoot me when she concentrates. this is a fact that i am damn proud of. havent' done any of the shooting competitions, i'm sure i'd meet a lot more people that could out shoot me.
April 24, 2002, 07:14 AM
My wife says
April 24, 2002, 07:24 AM
The older I get, the thicker my glasses get and the more people that can outshoot me.
April 24, 2002, 08:34 AM
Ala Dan said it! People who know 2 other shooters would vote low...I personally probably know well over a hundred shooters so I'm inclined to vote high because like Ala Dan said, on any given day, I might be the winner or the loser.
April 24, 2002, 08:42 AM
22lovr- Disclaimer: This is not a flame!! Have you ever done competitive shooting? In my experience people don't realize how un-spectacular their abilities are until they start shooting competitively.
April 24, 2002, 09:49 AM
In my experience people don't realize how un-spectacular their abilities are until they start shooting competitively.
Funny, I've heard something similar. Replace "start shooting competitively" with "attend Rogers Shooting School".
April 24, 2002, 10:32 AM
I'm w/ Skunkabilly. I just started competing and it seems like EVERYONE can out shoot me. At the range w/ friends & family, I only know of 2 guys that can really out shoot me.
April 24, 2002, 11:32 AM
Too bad this went to the competiton forum. :(
I'm right there with 22lovr. I was born with a God given ability to place holes very close together, or hit small objects at a distance using a handgun, any handgun.
*shrug* absolutly. positivly, nothing I had any control over. Like I say,,,a God given ability,,,born with it, and likely die with it.
Compete? For heavens sake why? I know how good/bad I am and hardly need the yardstick of someone else's God given talent to measure it by. Same goes in reverse. It's hardly fair to others to show them up with something I have zero control over.
'sides, I can only really let go and be myself when no one else is aorund. (Honestly, it's kind of embarassing). Been there, done that with others around and they just look at it as showing off.
April 24, 2002, 11:59 AM
RAE- The reason I ask about competition is because people who don't compete tend to forget about those shots they missed or when their groups were a little bigger than usual. Competition gives the shooter a chance to quantify their abilities. When one quantifies their shooting casually, one tends to forget the shots that weren't so good. If shooting is your talent, why not dominate the smallbore bullseye circuit or go head to head with guys like Rob Leatham? You can get money for guns and maybe even get sponsored so you can actually get paid to shoot. I'm not doubting your ability in the slightest, but I'm just saying that competition or going to gun school are the only ways a shooter can see how he/she measures up.
April 24, 2002, 01:45 PM
Read the question again. It didn't say anything about competitive shooting.
In formal competition, I'm probably a dog, if that's what you wanted me to admit.
However, in the casual world of the gun range, shooting at targets within the confines of the average range, yes I'm pretty accurate with any handgun.
(ah, disclaimer. Any handgun but my NAA mini-revolver!)
April 24, 2002, 01:47 PM
Simple question, not so simple answer. If I'm trading places with someone week after week at the top of the score board I don't feel I'm being out shot. If I start talking about who's going to be second because Mr. X just showed up, I'm out shot. Not only does this change with the sport (IDPA, IHMSA, PPC, etc.) I'm shooting that day, but with the gun I'm using. The guy who beats me with an open class auto often finds the tables turned with the revolver. Everybody can out shoot me but nobody wants to put any money on it. :) Of course I'm limiting my experiences to normal humans. You won't see my name in any gun ads. Of course I don't "know" those guys, just know of them.
April 24, 2002, 02:03 PM
I'm simply not that seriously into shooting compared probably to most enthusiasts on this board.
However, you are quite incorrect that I have to shoot competitively or go to a shooting school to measure my abilities. My family, friends, and acquaintences can check out the holes made in targets by their own guns shot by myself.
What's so complicated about what people have been doing for centuries? "Here, OG, bet you can't hit that rabbit with this rock." Or, "bet you can hit that small tree with your javelin." Or, "Bet you can't hit that piece of wood with your crossbow." ETC, ETC, ETC.
I just don't care to shoot competitively or go to gun school - I have fun in my own way.
April 24, 2002, 02:11 PM
If shooting is your talent, why not dominate the smallbore bullseye circuit or go head to head with guys like Rob Leatham?
Super easy answer. Talent is a combination of skill and disipline. I have the skill,,,I'll never have the disipline. Come to think of it, I don't really want the disipline. Too distracting.
April 24, 2002, 03:46 PM
I shoot in a PPC and Bullseye league and only one guy beats me every week (in both open and stock classes). He routinely shoots perfect 300 scores at 25 yards on the standard NRA pistol target. My best is 295.
April 24, 2002, 03:47 PM
22lovr- Disclaimer- I can't shoot a NAA mini very well either ;) The original question didn't ask specifically backyard OR competition shooting, just about how you stack up to people you know.
I think that most shooting ability claims are unsubstantiated if they aren't done in competition/school. For example- If I were to live in total isolation and I can do trigonometry does that make me a great mathmatician?
RAE- What does discipline have to do with competition? I think it deals more with learning to shoot than actually shooting. You don't have to be disciplined to be a great shooter, you have to be disciplined to be a better shooter.
April 24, 2002, 04:12 PM
Yes, I've actually thought about checking IDPA out sometime in the near-future. THEN, I know I will find out how miserable a shot I truly am.
Until then, I R the top dog in my small circle of family, friends, and acquaintences!
April 24, 2002, 04:18 PM
I think the "type" of shooting matters too. As well as the setting. I'd fail miserably in IDPA pistol competion. Yet, with only 8 months experience in ISSF pistol, I can hang with those who've shot it for several years.
It's all a matter of the shooting disciple and the company you keep. I won the last High Power service rifle match I shot in, and it was only my second match. However, I only shot a 435/500 which doesn't even fall into the "Expert" category. In shooting, as well as in life, everything is relative.
April 24, 2002, 04:48 PM
Not my aim to be argumentative but you're kidding right? Dicipline is the very heart and soul of any competition, shooting or otherwise.
April 24, 2002, 05:34 PM
22lovr- lol! I'm glad you didn't take any offense to my statements :) I used to be king of my backyard too until I found out how bad I was when I shot against that fellow that just posted: Falconer. He whoops my butt in ISSF pistol every single time we compete.
RAE- I understand that you're not trying to be arguementative, I was afraid that I was coming off that way, which wasn't my intention. My point is that you don't need to be disciplined to compete. You can show up to any competition, clean house, and go home. One doesn't need discipline to win (or to even participate) if they have natural talent.
falconer- Hey...wanna come to an IDPA match here? ;) (Maybe the Purdue guys can be top dogs for a day)
April 24, 2002, 05:45 PM
Yeah, I have to second what Ronin said about falconer, except I beat 'im. Once.
April 24, 2002, 05:53 PM
Depends...As far as family goes, I outshoot them with a Shotgun and pistol...but they outshoot me with a rifle. But seeing how I am in the military, I am pretty sure that there are a lot of people who can outshoot me!
April 24, 2002, 07:39 PM
Maybe one of these days we'll get a chance to swap some range time, and I can do a little better job of explaining it instead of typing it.
LOL! Long as there's no competition....well maybe a "bet you can't hit that" kinda thing,,, ;)
April 24, 2002, 09:28 PM
RAE- LOL! I'm always up for a good friendly shootout. My brother and I grew up doing that all the time. Our favorite was shooting at clay birds with rifles at unknown distances from a standing position. Even if you make me look like a newbie, I'll still have a great time :D
April 25, 2002, 04:23 AM
This being my first post on TFL...I'll see if I can't tick somebody off. :D
I agree with Ronin. If you think you are a good shot...chance are you aren't worth a big steaming pile of crap. ;)
I have been around guns my whole life. I've made great shoots on game. Shot expert with rifle and pistol in the Air Force (shooting better than most everyone around me). Then, a couple of years ago, I went to an USPSA action pistol match. I got my butt completely handed to me. I don't think I was in the top two-thirds. It was very enlightening. :eek:
I have stuck with it...and improved. Since that time I have seen many guys (gals have less ego) show up, score much lower than they expected, and never come back. The truth sometimes hurts. It takes a bit of character to show up and get spanked...then do it again the next match, and the next.
Hey Ohio guys...where do you shoot?
April 25, 2002, 06:19 AM
Caliban, yes once, and never gain :) I have some BIG plans for next season.
Ronin, I'm all up for an IDPA match, just gotta buy more mags for the CZ. Let me know what the match schedule is for May & June.
I'm especially interested in any sort of tactical shotgun match.
Flexmoney, I shoot at the OSU range the most. Sometimes I shoot at Pro Gun (akron),the deer hunter (barberton) or Stonewall (cleveland). Sometimes I also shoot at the CPD range with Coronach.
The Tusco Rifle club is pretty much the meeting place for the Ohio TFLers. We usually gather there once a month for the steel plate shoots. You should definately come next month.
April 25, 2002, 07:16 AM
Enough to make the shooting portion of my life interesting.
At regional and national IDPA matches about one third of all other shooters score better than I do, to always include my eldest son.
April 25, 2002, 07:20 AM
Let me know a date and directions...and what to bring.
I shoot mostly action pistol. Here is a link (http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=147885#post147885) that covers many of the Ohio pistol matches.
Rayner's Range has a 3-gun (pistol, rifle, shotgun) side match every other month. Ft. Harmar IDPA (Marietta) has a shotgun side match this Sunday.
April 25, 2002, 08:56 AM
falconer- I'll keep you posted on the May and June matches w/ shotgun. We're having a tactical match this weekend for rifle and pistol. I'll finally get to knock the dust off of my AR :)
April 25, 2002, 08:58 AM
Why don't you knock that silly muzzlebreak off Caliban's AR while you're at it? :D
April 25, 2002, 10:36 AM
Obviously I'm here late, and this probably won't be read by the folks who were reall into this conversation, but here goes anyway.
I'm mainly with Ronin in this. I shoot NRA Highpower Rifle and CMP matches. That's a huge portion of my life. Outside of HP I'd say I shoot in the top 10% of all people who ever touch a gun, but that's not hard to do. I am a pretty good shooter in this realm. Inside HP, its tough. I am just barely making Expert now, but this is just my second year. I expect to knock on the heels of Master by the end of this year, but I know guys who have spent years at the Expert level. Expert means you're picking up 89 to 93.99% of all points available in the match. There are so many guys that can stomp my butt its amazing to me. This is where I belong...looking up, striving to get better. there are some who seem to have a natural ability, but they rarely get beyond Master in a hurry. Being a "natural" only gets you so far. The rest is disciplene.
You guys who don't shoot competition are missing out on a great experience, no matter the discipline.
April 25, 2002, 01:05 PM
Before I had a cataract removed in December, EVERYONE that showed up at the range shot better that me. Now with improved vision, I manage to outshoot someone every now and then. However, no one has ever had more fun that I do at the range.
April 25, 2002, 01:23 PM
To those polled who only know five or fewer people who can outshoot them:
You guys should try to get out more.
Or am I reading about you in the magazines under your real names?
April 25, 2002, 03:09 PM
I used to think that I was hot stuff. I could outshoot any of my friends.
Then I started shooting IDPA. :)
Competition really forces you to be better. You can't just discount all of those times you miss in the backyard shooting cans. Not when you are shooting for score, while being timed, and a mess of folks are watching you.
And then if you think you are getting good, find an IPSC Grandmaster and shoot against them, man on man, in a steel challenge match. Very humbling. The only time I have been able to beat somebody that good on a stage is when they have a really bad malfunction. :p
I consider myself a pretty good generalist, meaning that I'm pretty good at most types of shooting, pistol, rifle, shotgun. (maybe that is why my highest finishes are at 3 gun) But then when you get into specialization, whoa, then it is really easy to get blown away by how good some people out there are. I can go out shotgunning with a bunch of buddies, and beat just about anybody I know if we are hand throwing clay pigeons out in the desert, but if I were to go to a Sporting Clays match, I would get my butt handed to me.
April 25, 2002, 06:12 PM
falconer- Caliban gets so POed when people talk smack on his muzzle brake. We should just hacksaw it off when he's sleeping...but on the other hand, the muzzle brake does clear up my sinuses ;)
April 26, 2002, 12:09 AM
TFL member K80Geoff wanted to shoot My Beretta 92FS just to see what the hub bub was all about. He picked it up, shot it better than I ever shot it, and handed it back to me and said, "I don't like the Trigger.":o
April 26, 2002, 12:22 AM
It's tough to post something that does'nt go at least a little off subject.
When I posted this question originally I figured it would end up here sooner or later.
As of now, TFL'ers are lookin pretty good as I suspected they would.In my opinion it only makes sense .
The question say's how many people do you (KNOW PERSONALLY OR CASUALLY)..... Not...... (KNOW OF)
I think many who voted 30 or more included people that they (KNOW OF)...........Am I correct?.............Well either I am or you all are some friendly SOB's:D :D :D
April 26, 2002, 03:00 AM
Unfortunately, I have been shooting pretty much by myself, except for a friend or two I dragged along. Until I join the local range I guess I don't know for sure. Any TFL shooters here in Montana near Bozeman?:confused:
April 26, 2002, 03:49 AM
Looks like the is a club right down the street from you...in Belgrade. Link here. (http://www.gallatinactionshooters.com/)
Heck, you could jog there. I am jealous...My shortest drive to a match is an hour.
[Edit] O.K., it looks like it is on the other side of Belgrad. Better drive. (Ammo gets heavy.) :)
April 26, 2002, 04:51 AM
Flex, friend o mine, first of all Belgrade is eight(8) miles from Bozone, Logan is at least another six(6). Just kidding, I've actually been to the Logan range, but this is Montana, and Logan is an outdoor range. Also, I can't afford to join right now so that it why I've been going to the local national forest for my shooting needs. :D
April 26, 2002, 06:21 AM
falconer (Tom) said it best.
It's all relative.
It's all relative to what your goal is. The only person I have ANY desire to beat is myself.
April 26, 2002, 12:32 PM
I shoot B/USPSA and Sharpshooter/IDPA; all of the A, Master, etc. shooters can outshoot me. That said, I suspect I can outshoot over 90% of the gun owners in the world.
April 27, 2002, 10:01 AM
In HP comp, I`m surrounded by better shots than me. The makings for improvement in MY shooting!! ;)
April 28, 2002, 05:24 PM
Jim Watson well said, I shoot around the world champ for IPSC and some of his friends. They put me at the 75% side and the only reason I beat any off them is cause a gun broke. You top guns try finding a match and not a can on the fence post. It will WAKE U UP!!!
April 29, 2002, 08:58 AM
So either the majority are BS:ers, are competing at world top level or have never entered a "real" competition. I know that at least 50 IPSC shooters in sweden can outshoot me ... :-). Thats what happened at the swedish nationals last year anyway.
:D :cool: :D
April 29, 2002, 09:33 AM
I'm an IPSC "B" class shooter. The "B" means that a "Boatload" of shooters can whup me on a regular basis :p
I've noticed that any shooter can beat any other shooter, at least once in a while. My wife (who I have beat on a steel shoot...with a reload...using a Colt SAA against her SiG P226) has beat me (quite legitimately) on some stages.
I've beat Grandmasters now and then, but surely not often. I've RO'ed some of the best shooters currently in the game, and I know I'm not even CLOSE to the same level as they are. Fun to try, though :)
May 18, 2002, 04:01 AM
Down at the bottom of the page.
David A. Stoker
I've never met him though. (Although i'd certainly like too. Shooting like that is just a pure pleasure to watch,)
I can honestly say that's a group that I'm not capable of firing at that range. 20 years ago I might have been able to come extremely close to it, maybe even duplicate,,,maybe even beat. Today ain't 20 years ago though.
*shrug* Oh well, so it goes.
May 18, 2002, 07:43 AM
Competition is a humbling event............and great fun besides.....outside of the 22 events I competed in as a child I primarily became a can shooter and informal plinkerer(amazing how much ammo you can burn doing that over 30 plus years), with forays into trap/skeet and hi-power rifle events.........but recently was talked into competing in the Jacksonville gssf event......well I shot in the stockmeister and amatuer events and consistently placed in the top 1/3 roughly, my overall rating for that event was 25th........all that practiced smoothness went out the window when that airhorn went off......and I tried to go to fast......lol.....so I am relearning to make each shot count, "to shoot slow but quickly". I stopped by the sepsa fun shoot steel plate rack of 5 plates.....I shot the whole event using a box stock glock mdl 19....my best time was 3.22 seconds for 5 plates, when I looked on the sheet the nearest to me was 3.89 appx..........well the sepsa event Saturday (the day I shot) was taken by a score of 2.01 seconds.....lol....and to show that wasnt a fluke, the next day the sepsa event was taken by someone else shooting 2.02 seconds....lol.......and Im chomping at the bit to go to the next one near me...........................but to show how different local, and regional, national events are......the Sunday after that Saturday glock shoot I competed at the Hernando Sportsmen's Clubs pin shoot......I took first with semiauto, 2nd with revolver(and thats not as good as it sounds, I was many seconds away from the top shooter as the rest of the crowd was that far away from me......and that just handguns, rifles and shotguns are whole nother can of worms....fubsy. ...shooting is mucho fun.......
May 25, 2002, 10:53 AM
had to vote for 30+ since on a given day, anyone could outshoot me.
Now how many require very little luck? I shoot with a group by 30 or so weekly and feel I've had a terrible night if I'm not in top 10. Last week I had a failure to nuetralize arrrg in the first stage, so the second stage I decided was just for fun. This means on the swinging target that required 4 shots I tried to get them all on one swing (most folks were doing doubles on two swings). Darned if I didn't have a failure to nuetralize again (lightening struck twice... hostage shot going for head... clipped top of head but didn't break line :( All said and done I came in 12 or 13th. I thought I'd be last.
In the same group there are 3 or 5 that beat me everyday unless they screw up.
edited in by me....
Replied, then read the threads and realized the age of this thread :(
BTW, for all who don't want to join a group but would like to know how they stack up.... You could try setting up your own classifier course (look to the IDPA site for desc and rules). A friend with a stop watch could let you know how you are doing against a well established standard
May 27, 2002, 10:39 AM
Shooting in Phoenix with all the pros like rob leatham and brian enos makes me very humble. THere are a ton better than me but I am usually in the top third of most matches.
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