View Full Version : I took a 500,000 volt stungun shot. Target Guy is a tough gig.
April 14, 2002, 05:38 PM
For research purposes. And for yucks, sorta. (We filmed it.) I volunteer for the STUPIDEST stuff, sometimes. The things I do to uphold my reputation as an utter loon...:D
I put this up as academic information on the efficacy of stunguns in general, from the victims-eye-view, as nonlethal force options require as much info as possible. Might as well get some positive use out of my lack iof common sense. What's a half a million volts between friends, anyway?
"For an encore, I shall set myself on fire."--Craig Breedlove, builder/driver of the Spirit of America landspeed record vehicle right after he crashed it into a muddy lakebed nose first at a couple hundred miles an hour.
Anyhow, that HURT. It dropped me on the floor by virtue of reflex reaction to jerk away from an unbelievably painful shock. I took it on the right shoulder, for a few tenths of a second. The sting was comparable to taking a bullwhip lash to the skin between the electrodes. It continued to burn/hurt for several minutes afterwords, but the only actual damage was two small burns (2nd degree dots) at the impact point of the electrodes. I could feel the electricity about two-thirds of the way across my body from the shock point, but the pain was confined between the electrodes.
I only got hit once, for a short instant. I was admittedly unwilling to subject myself to another shot, at least for the moment. I was not "stunned" after, per se. That is, I was on the ground, but I was able to stand up immediately, with no dizzyness or instability. (Mental instability is not part of the equasion. ;)) I just grabbed my shoulder and started cussing like a sailor. The zap caused an adrenalin dump, but it didn't invigorate me enough to be willing to take another. The only aftereffects were "woozy-ness", and the feeling that someone turned up the gravity in my universe. "Fatigued" is the best word. I seemed to be exhausted, like I had just finished running up a long hill. I could dredge up energy to walk around, but if I sat down, I immediately felt sleepy, and breathing seemed to require an effort. It felt SOOO good to lie down flat on my back, but I was able to stand up easily with an effort of will. This lasted for HOURS, until I finally gave up and went to bed. The next day, I was normal, except for stiffness in the muscles of my shoulder.
In the context of stunguns as a defensive concept, I think they would work just fine. It penetrated three layers with ease, (sweatshirt and two shirts.) and was simply un-withstandable. The response was on a purely reflexive level, as I was braced for the impact with the intention of sustaining a good zap. I failed. In terms of delivering a significant impact to an assailant, the stungun required very little effort. The idea of getting up and continuing the fight was not really a consideration, as the shot ammounted to severest aversion therapy. To get up and angrilly attack the stunner would require charging into the stungun again, not an easy prospect. I would think that actually flooring a person like a drunk or someone hopped on adrenalin or drugs would require agressive follow-up zaps after the initial knock-down. I had no "enhancements" in my system, nor was I a determined, -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--off attacker who might have more fight in them than I did. That might require more determination on the part of the defender to effectively counter the threat. This would be really easy, as any "fending-off" motions just give you something to jab the stungun into. A few seconds of sustained shock would leave you too drained to easily move in a hurry.
I find it interesting that I seem to have developed a new reflex. If that stungun even gets WAVED in my direction, I jump out of the way without thinking, FAST! Maintaining things like balance or decorum drop to the bottom of the list without conscious thought. My body will happily dump me on the ground in the most embarrasing way, so long as those electrodes don't land! It's on the level of shutting your eyes when things come flying at your face.
That's going to be tricky to get around when it comes time to do "Stungun II, Multiple hits", a segment I already volunteered to do. (ZAP! Owwww, $#*&! %&*$%! That Hurt!...Thank-you-sir-may-I-have-another...ZAP! Agh...#@@@@%&!...damnitall, why'd I say I was gonna DO this...Thank-you-sir-may-I-have-another...until me or the batteries wear out. Geez, I AM an idiot. Or a masochist.) I'll put the results of that experience up here as well, but we haven't scheduled it yet.
I might add that although I'M going to go do it, I strongly reccomend YOU don't. It's NASTY. It hurts. It stings. It'll make you mad. It ruins the rest of your day, as you have to go to bed right after. It's HORRIBLE. Do you hear me? HORRIBLE.
Do it AGAIN!?! Gosh-darned idiot...;):D;)
April 14, 2002, 06:56 PM
Keep playin with it. You will learn to handle it without blinkin. :D
April 14, 2002, 07:19 PM
The only aftereffects were "woozy-ness", and the feeling that someone turned up the gravity in my universe.:D
For an encore, perhaps you could lick the electrodes? ;)
April 14, 2002, 07:20 PM
Sam, Such faith. Speak you from personal experiance? That thing was MEAN. Curious, I am.
April 14, 2002, 09:37 PM
You're nuts bud... What's next, letting someone whack you in the nuts with a 9-iron? :D
April 14, 2002, 09:48 PM
I CERTAINLY hope you have a very healthy heart and a strong inclination to good luck! It would be sad to be killed by the shocks, for what seems to ammount to... high risk research.
April 14, 2002, 11:15 PM
What Jody said. I'm all for taking some pepperspray to the face or something, but electricity is what keeps your ticker going and I prefer not to toy with that. I know there is nil for amperage and its supposed to be harmless, but refusal to play the statistics game with my life is why I carry a gun, see stunguns no differently. Anyway, I've been lit up by car magnetos that carry 2 primary amps and jump a 3/4" gap at handcrank speed, now that's a shock, don't need a special contraption, unwittingly providing the ground back to the welder is also not good.
April 14, 2002, 11:30 PM
I'm glad to have Hand_Rifle_Guy on board as the TFL guinea pig! Anyone here have any first-hand experience with Mace/pepper spray?
April 14, 2002, 11:46 PM
I hate to play the "my story is better than yours" game, but I'll tell you about something that is worse..
In a L.E. training academy I attended, we trained with what is called a stun-belt.
It is used for unruly prisoners..
It is made of heavy duty nylon and velcro and/or leather, with straps to hook handcuffs through in the front, so the prisoner's hands are immobile..
A battery pack is mounted on the back.
I believe 80,000 volts is the number..
Two electrodes are positioned over the kidneys of the prisoner..
The officer in charge of this prisoner has a wireless remote control in his hand..
When the belt is put on the prisoner, policy dictates that he is given a short briefing on the following.
If you cease to cooperate or stop behavior that you are instructed to stop, the officer will press the button on the remote control once which gives a loud audible beep...this is your warning to cease and decist.
The second press activates an 8 second surge of electricity, which cannot be stopped once initiated!!
Yes we rode it, yes it incapacitated you, completely locking up your lower back muscles, and many lost bladder control..
THE MOST INTENSE SEEMINGLY NEVERENDING PAIN YOU'VE EVER EXPERIENCED!!!!
The sequence of pictures shows a 6'4" 275LB trainee:
UNFORTUNATELY, FOR SOME REASON I CAN'T LINK TO WEBSHOTS ANYMORE, SO YOU'LL HAVE TO PASTE THESE URL'S TO SEE THEM...
1. Getting the belt strapped on..
2. Hitting the deck..
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v1/8/68/27/35686827TVUJdF_ph.jpg Burn marks which were bad enough to scab up..
April 14, 2002, 11:53 PM
Jody, Navy Joe, I appreciate your concern. And yes, I DO have a tough ticker. I can walk/run uphill for faster and longer than anyone I've ever met, so I think I was lucky and got or built a supreme cardiovascular system.
And I'm not the TFL guinea pig, I'm the DSP Target Guy. I live to pull stupid stuff like that. Putting the VOLume in volunteer! Whee!
HOWEVER, I have no interest in testing out mace/pepper spray/what-have-you. The advantage of volunteering is you get to pick your poison.
Remember, this was a public-interest posting, for informational puposes only. I am NOT bragging, I think...:D
Oh yeah, I need a volunteer to hold my hand for Round II. Any takers? ;)
edit: EIGHT SECONDS! :eek: AAGH! EIGHT SECONDS!??! RUN AWAAAAY!!!
April 15, 2002, 08:37 AM
Please be careful what you write...I was laughing so hard at your question (9-iron whack) I had Diet Coke spewing out my nose.
Only if he is "Iron Ball McGinty" from that Steve Martin movie.......
April 15, 2002, 01:08 PM
Had a friend who used to think stun guns were funny.
I've held the large kind built into a baton to his chest; scary.
What was unnerving is the way he'd pick up demo stun guns at gun shows and apply them to his bare arm, shake his head and wander off. It'd bug the guy giving the sales pitch a little.
I'm not saying they don't work, just that they seem to work better on some than on others, and some folks they don't seem to faze at all. Same with OC.
Keep that in mind should you ever have to use it; you don't trust your gun to drop the bad guy 100% of the time with one zap, why should anything else?
April 15, 2002, 01:43 PM
There was a guy in basic training, who, when we did the gas hut, walked in, and at the prescribed time, he removed his mask. He then recited his name, service number in the correct fashion, looked around, and asked what the big deal was, then leisurely strolled out. Either he clanked when he walked, or was some sorta mutant... I darn near knocked over the DI who was holding the door...
April 15, 2002, 02:21 PM
Driving a 20 penny nail into the head of your "tallywhacker"? You keep on if you wish...me? I'm just gonna take your word for it...curiosity ain't gonna kill this "cat"...:D
April 15, 2002, 03:33 PM
Hand with all due respect it was a real dumb thing to do.
April 15, 2002, 03:49 PM
Better you than me!
I wonder how it would work on someone who has a mind-altering substance in his body. While I understand the reaction was reflexive, I wonder what chemcals do to the neurological "wiring" - at least temporarily.
April 15, 2002, 07:02 PM
Thanks for the info. Keep us informed on Part 2 of the "experiment".
P.s. I wonder if your life/health insurence covers self induced electrocution. Just a thought. If not, then the only sensable thing that you can do is....Thats Right! Raise your coverage!!! Make absolutly certain that it clearly states thats you are free to pursue your right to freely express yourself through the use of live electrical current. Don't let em slip any thing into the small print ...the dirty basta*ds!
April 15, 2002, 07:55 PM
I have a 200,000 volt stun gun, and I used to zap myself on the leg before, just to see how it was. It drove my wife crazy! It didn't seem that bad to me. My muscles twitched like crazy, but it didn't drop me or anything. Of course I didn't do it on any big nerve area, but just like shooting, we might not be perfectly accurate in a stressful confrontation. And yes, I know 200,000 is less than half of 500,000 volts. That's just my experience.
Personaly, I think if applied in the right area, for enough duration, they are very effective. However I don't want to stake my life on one.
April 16, 2002, 01:13 AM
Shock therapy cure for insomnia? :D
Dude, looks like Johnny Knoxville, of "Jackass" fame, has competition, eh? :D
April 16, 2002, 01:27 AM
H_R_G won't make Jackass until he finds himself an AED (Automatic External Defibrillator and nails himself with a couple hundred joules. Should be fine as long as someone puts out the fire in his hair.
April 16, 2002, 01:37 AM
Supposedly stun guns are used as an impotence cure in China. If you zap your testicles with one of those it's supposed to give you an instant erection. Try it and tell us if this is true Handi rifle guy.
April 16, 2002, 04:26 AM
I think you're totally insane, but thanks for describing the experience for us.
Just don't ever come back here and tell us you're volunteering to take a hollow-point in the name of research!
April 16, 2002, 08:40 AM
Probably is true. Growing up, my parents had cattle. A lot of times when people buy a bull from you, they want to be sure he is not "shooting blanks." To get a sample for a sperm count the vet inserts an electric probe up the back side and turns on the juice, and, well, things start heppening. :eek: Always thought this must really be a conflict of emotions for the poor animal!! Anyway, the chinese can keep that one for themselves, as far as I'm concerned!:D
April 16, 2002, 02:00 PM
Maybe I've been watching too many cartoons, but I'm picturing Hand_Rifle_Guy lit up like a Christmas tree with his skeleton showing through like an x-ray!
During my baton class, the instructor showed us a video where he (a really big stout guy) gets zapped by a Taser. He went down like a blob of jelly. He said anyone who takes the Taser class is going to have to get zapped as part of the requirement. I decided to pass! Same thing with the pepper spray course.
I've gotten zapped by an electric fence twice, and that's enough for me. I grabbed on with both my hands, felt nothing in my hands or arms, but my legs "exploded" and I had to look down to make sure they were still there.
Hand_Rifle_Guy, did you end up smelling like burning hair? :D
April 16, 2002, 03:53 PM
Heh - at a field party, someone thought it'd be funny to turn on the electric fence that ran along the treeline that folks were using as the "men's room."
That really wasn't funny.
April 16, 2002, 06:36 PM
The moment of impact. I'm violently twisting away, and on my way towards the ground. I started facing the camera, hands at my sides. And a smile, believe it or else.
Runt, no smells at all, other than sweat from being nervous.
And as for virilty testing, how does "NO" sound?
And I am NOT a jackass. I have much more taste than those guys do. They don't impress me, mostly. Also, they have a real budget, whereas we just have enthusiasm.
Getta load of the facial expression and the muscles in my neck. Pain is my friend, really!
April 17, 2002, 01:10 PM
Skor - my partner and I have 20+ deployments w/the M26 Taser. They have been both touch stun applications and with the probes. We've had suspects large and small under different degrees and types of intoxication. Short of a probe failure i.e. a miss or a battery problem, we've had 100% effectiveness. The nice thing about the Taser is that it not only "stuns", but it provides muscular disruption (contraction of the muscles) that cannot be stopped by "willpower" or a high pain threshold.
It's sorta like if you were talking on a phone and someone in your house picked up an extension and started yelling into the phone. Their voice would override yours. The Taser does the same thing with the signal the brain normally sends to the muscles. No way to fight it.
I don't know what HRG used in his "test". :) I can tell you my 3 M26 experiences sound similar to his.
April 17, 2002, 03:31 PM
Firstly, a great thread - I haven't laughed so much in ages.
Secondly, correct me if I'm wrong but a have a group AirTasering competition part of the SWAT games ( the group who stands uo longest wins as I recall).
Thirdly if you have the bandwidth capability you can see lots of footage of AirTaser at www.airtaser.com
April 18, 2002, 12:03 PM
And when the perpetrator of "turn on the electric fence" was discovered, did the rest of the party-goers smite him about the head and shoulders?
[ I got my "battery charged" in a similar fashion once. Always looked for ceramic insulators VERY carefully after that......]
April 19, 2002, 11:06 AM
Testing an engine for a dead cylinder without gloves on is more than enough for me. I don't even like those piezoelectric cigarette lighters. Electricity is best left in batteries and wires and such, NOT me.
Bogie, you may be interested to know that immunity to tear gas is genetic. It's something like 1% of the population. How do I know? Mom dropped her mace (old style mace, not OC) in the garage. She went running off screaming in pain, and I couldn't figure out what that funny smell was. Dad is the same way.
April 19, 2002, 02:31 PM
This thread just makes me laugh.
Of course, I have to share my own electricity stories.
I grew up in a community of horse owners. Most used electric fences, of the two single wires stretched between the poles. My brothers and I had fun as kids touching the lines to feel the shock. Had to be really careful though. We didn't play that game too often.
Later on, my summer job for several years while in high school and college was building houses with a construction company part owned by the guy who lived up the street. He had one or two extension cords that had gotten old and frayed near the male ends, and the boxes that the power company installs on job sites are never really that great. I got bit on several occasions plugging into one those boxes, which would leave big char marks all over the outlets. Left a big impression.
I don't mess with electricty at all after that. Anybody shows me a 500, 000 volt taser I'd be running like mad in the other direction.
April 26, 2002, 02:26 PM
I used to have pepper spray attached to the end of my keychain. One day I cracked the sprayhead in the top. Before I threw it away, I thought I would see how far it squirted. About 8 feet. Next I squirted some on my finger. Nothing.
So, being more curious than smart, I sniffed my finger. Nothing. So I shrugged and walked back to the garage behind the house to throw the broken pepper spray canister in the trash. I had gone maybe 15 feet when my nose started to burn.
I quickly threw the pepper spray towards the trash can and headed back into the house. About the time I made it inside I was started to tear up and my face was on fire.
Not knowing what to do, I went to the sink and washed my face with soap and water. This made it worse for the moment, but 10 minutes later my sinuses quieted down and I was ok.
I would just point out that I never actually touched the spray to my face. This was all off of fumes.:eek:
Also, someone asked about how people on drugs would react to a stungun. My old law partner was a bouncer at the biggest dance club in Memphis, TN during his college years. One time they had some trouble with this medium-sized, muscular guy. Several bouncers surrounded the disorderly guy and he starts trading blows with the bouncers. The disorderly guy had obviously had some training in boxing. There were 6 or 7 bouncers beating on this guy and he was giving it right back to them. My old law partner sees this happening and runs over with his stun gun. He grabs the guy on the shoulder and gives him the stun gun in the lower back. The disorderly guy immediately drops to his knees. Unfortunately, because of the handhold, my friend is also getting shocked. So when the guy drops to his knees, my friend takes the stun gun off. This bastard springs right back to his feet and knocks my friend down. By this time, every bouncer in the place is teeing off on this guy. Nothing fazes him. My friend grabs this guy by the belt and with some help drags the guy to the front door and throws him down the steps. The guy lands at the foot of the steps and pops right up. Punchs the first person he sees. This happens to be a cop. There were four cops total and the other three cops start clubbing this guy in the head. My friend says the last time he saw the guy was when he was in the cop car, the guy was smearing the face (and his blood) all over the window of the car. He never found out what the guy was on, if it was PCP or Meth or what. But that was the end of his career as a bouncer.
I think the morale of the story is don't touch your target when using a stun gun and make sure they are totally prone or running in the other direction before you left off the stun gun.
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